The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread - - - Part 45

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[Kane52630]

 

[Goku Goes Crazy]

Excellent

 

[Kane52630]

Reading the last view posts in the previous thread, all I can say is...

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Let's put it this way... I know alot of people on here like to lick the ground Chris Nolan walks on (and believe me I love him too)... but there is still alot of room for improvement in the next version of this franchise.

ALOT.

 

[Gianakin_]

Let's put it this way... I know alot of people on here like to lick the ground Chris Nolan walks on (and believe me I love him too)... but there is still alot of room for improvement in the next version of this franchise.

ALOT.

Whoever tries to "improve" on Nolan's take is doomed to fail. That's why Nolan didn't try to improve on anything done before (well, save for the nipples, maybe).

The next take could be better, or it could be worse. Taking note of Nolan's shortcomings will not necessarily improve it.

 

[Miranda Fox]

Let's put it this way... I know alot of people on here like to lick the ground Chris Nolan walks on (and believe me I love him too)... but there is still alot of room for improvement in the next version of this franchise.

ALOT.

But see, that is entirely subjective. Personally, Nolan's vision is the closest to what I've always wanted. I'm not saying it's exact, and Catwoman's attire is a point where he's gone a direction I still don't quite understand, but regardless, I think it is wrong to act like one has to be a Nolan fan first to love his vision. That is just flat not true.

 

[Caped Crusader]

All I'm saying is that this thread better get some actual news before it closes.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Reading the last view posts in the previous thread, all I can say is...

If that isn't BATMAN then I don't know what is...

 

[The Morningstar]

That's exactly what he did in TDK.

Having doubts is boring? When you've spent 40 minutes being shown what the Joker has done to f**k up the city and its people? What did you want him to do, ignore all that and say "No, I'm doing fine, I'm avenging my parents. GTFO, Alfred". Superhero does X thing, X thing has consequences. Superhero (who is not deranged) starts re-evaluating what he did. Story moves on. Batman is such a hero. Lobo or Deadpool are not, so I wouldn't expect such an element in movies about those particular characters. But Batman? He fights for the people. When his actions (directly or indirectly) hurt the people he fights for, he damn sure should doubt himself and do something.

Boring is when you quit to get better marks or to make it to a date. Quitting to try and find piece from a demon that's tormenting you since childhood is not boring, it's essential.

Not sure what Deadpool or Lobo have to do with anything. Although I remember back when i used to read Deadpool in the 90s he saved the planet, despite knowing that no one else on Earth would know about it and he'd still be viewed as a crazed lunatic. But i digress.

As for TDK. Yes well, Joker was doing all sorts of crazy ****. Batman felt guilt, he felt responsible for it, he didn't want the blood on his hands. It is quite a moral dilemma. But still, the hero wanting to quit in the sequel movie is a cliche, no two ways about it. That's all i really had to say on the matter in response to someone saying Keaton/Burton Batman was cliche.

 

[The Morningstar]

But see, that is entirely subjective. Personally, Nolan's vision is the closest to what I've always wanted. I'm not saying it's exact, and Catwoman's attire is a point where he's gone a direction I still don't quite understand, but regardless, I think it is wrong to act like one has to be a Nolan fan first to love his vision. That is just flat not true.

It's not subjective. People who think his movies are flawless are flat out wrong.

Whether you like his particular vision for Batman is a different thing. That's entirely up to opinion.

My ideal vision for Batman is a middle ground between Burton's fantasy and mythological approach, and Nolan's grounded, more practical approach.

Alfonso Cuaron to the rescue!

 

[Gianakin_]

Not sure what Deadpool or Lobo have to do with anything.

Just saying that these are 2 heroes I wouldn't expect to express doubt for their actions.

As for TDK. Yes well, Joker was doing all sorts of crazy ****. Batman felt guilt, he felt responsible for it, he didn't want the blood on his hands. It is quite a moral dilemma. But still, the hero wanting to quit in the sequel movie is a cliche, no two ways about it. That's all i really had to say on the matter in response to someone saying Keaton/Burton Batman was cliche.

I know you're not talking about me, but I don't think Burton's films are cliche. That's the last negative thing I'd say about them. What I'm trying to say is that quitting may be cliche, but not all cliches are bad. If it's done well, I don't see the problem.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

My ideal vision for Batman is a middle ground between Burton's fantasy and mythological approach, and Nolan's grounded, more practical approach.

Alfonso Cuaron to the rescue!

Exactly... Burton and Nolan are both at the extreme ends of the spectrum.

We need to find a happy medium with the reboot. Its at least worth a shot.

 

[Gianakin_]

It's not subjective. People who think his movies are flawless are flat out wrong.

Whether you like his particular vision for Batman is a different thing. That's entirely up to opinion.

My ideal vision for Batman is a middle ground between Burton's fantasy and mythological approach, and Nolan's grounded, more practical approach.

Alfonso Cuaron to the rescue!

See, that won't necessarily be ideal, even to you. You're talking visuals here, right? Because you have no idea which way the story would go.

 

[Sharkboy]

Well I'm a complete snob when it comes to Bioware's latest offerings, not to say I didn't at least mildly enjoy the third entry until that abysmal ending. I presume you liked it?

At any rate, I've been fine. Kind of just dawned on me that I haven't seen you for a while on the boards, probably because the last time I do remember seeing you was when the theatrical trailer debuted and we haven't gotten zilch since. Unless you count the toys and merchandise, of course. But enough of that, how's life been treating you since being away from the boards?

Yeah, it's why I never argue with anyone that hates the ending, because i 100% disagree, but I also 100% understand, so there is no argument to be had when I get the opposing viewpoint. I'm just very biased in that i hate happy endings...because there are no happy endings in life Darkhunt and i like anger inducing divisive endings...kinda makes me hope they'll have one for this movie ey?

It's all good, i just went away because I realised once i start discussing at length the inner morality and politics of Batman and gotham city, in a film i haven't even seen yet. I know im taking the hype too far and need to step back and just enjoy the film without putting TOO much weight on it pre release, but i was promised something this week or so I've heard. So i'm just popping in to see if it pans out...besides i love chatting about possible future directors, which people have been doing a lot lately I see.

 

[The Morningstar]

Just saying that these are 2 heroes I wouldn't expect to express doubt for their actions.



I know you're not talking about me, but I don't think Burton's films are cliche. That's the last negative thing I'd say about them. What I'm trying to say is that quitting may be cliche, but not all cliches are bad. If it's done well, I don't see the problem.

Of course. Hollywood is built on cliches. It's all about the execution.

See, that won't necessarily be ideal, even to you. You're talking visuals here, right? Because you have no idea which way the story would go.

I'm talking overall tone and style. I personally find Nolan's style, boring and unimaginative, to sum it up. But I can understand why people would find Burton's style too fantastical.

I think Cuaron potentially is the perfect man for that middle ground. And for me, that middle ground is my ideal vision of a live action Batman.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think Cuaron potentially is the perfect man for that middle ground. And for me, that middle ground is my ideal vision of a live action Batman.

Well, since you 're talking tone and style, then I agree about Cuaron.

 

[Kane52630]

I think i've said this many times before but Batman can be interpreted in so many ways and can still be entertaining and faithful to the comics. It's why I love Adam West's version of Batman, Burton's Batman, Schumacher's Batman, and Nolan's Batman. They all have elements that you can look at in Batman's 73 years in the comics.

 

[The Joker]

Because he purposely chose to show Batman as more of a mythic creature, a force of nature, than a man.

I know. That's part of the lack of humanity in the character.

But you could also say him being willing to open up to Vicki was development for him.

After Alfred kept badgering him into it. Bruce was oblivious to Vicki after their one date until she fell afoul of the Joker, then Alfred was always in his ear about opening up to her and telling her everything. A journalist who comes into town and he barely knows a wet weekend, and Alfred wants him to tell her everything.

Batman shouldn't. He isn't your average man. He should be steadfast in his mission. That's part of what makes him awesome.

Rubbish! Batman is as human as any other hero and has wanted to throw in the towel several times before. Even BTAS covered that angle. The brilliant episode, I am the Night, actually had him quit after he was sick and tired of fighting a losing battle with Gotham's crime, then Jim Gordon gets shot when Batman is late to a drug bust, and Batman blames himself and quits.

I'd rather see a character like that than a robotic Batman who thinks he can do no wrong on his mission.

Love's a funny thing, stranger stuff has happened in real life.

No doubt but that doesn't make it any less cliche. I'm more inclined to believe someone who's taken on a life long quest of fighting a city full of crime having self doubts and feeling guilt than a private secluded man like Bruce wearing his heart on his sleeve.

 

[Sharkboy]

I disagree with thinking that theres plenty of room for improvement with what we have, but there is certainly plenty of room for change, especially with source material so broad in styles and tone. The next bat films could be radically different visually and tonally yet still as good. Providing they do what Nolan did and take some bloody risks, not adhere so damn closely to a comic book. Find a style thats both natural to the director yet visually arresting and makes sense within the construct of the script, and above all...make it a great film, not a good comic book adaptation. With that in mind you can get anybody from del toro to refn to even david yates. Just good filmakers who know how to put film first movie second.

 

[Caped Crusader]

I think i've said this many times before but Batman can be interpreted in so many ways and can still be entertaining and faithful to the comics. It's why I love Adam West's version of Batman, Burton's Batman, Schumacher's Batman (Forever), and Nolan's Batman. They all have elements that you can look at in Batman's 73 years in the comics.

 

[rashad]

I think i've said this many times before but Batman can be interpreted in so many ways and can still be entertaining and faithful to the comics. It's why I love Adam West's version of Batman, Burton's Batman, Schumacher's Batman, and Nolan's Batman. They all have elements that you can look at in Batman's 73 years in the comics.

Well said.

 

[Gianakin_]

I think i've said this many times before but Batman can be interpreted in so many ways and can still be entertaining and faithful to the comics. It's why I love Adam West's version of Batman, Burton's Batman, Schumacher's Batman, and Nolan's Batman. They all have elements that you can look at in Batman's 73 years in the comics.

Definitely. Faithfulness to comics is a very funny thing and all interpretations have had their shares of faithfulness, departure, twists and tributes to the mythos.

 

[gugumugats]

Keaton Batman likes to get girls drunk and sleep with them on the first date.

Bale Batman gets broken up with after the first kiss.

Nuff said.