BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 3

[misslane38]

For those who have seen the film already (lucky you!), can anyone share any scenes, shots, or lines of dialogue that reminded you of iconic comic book stories or similar imagery or dialogue in other films or televisions shows? For example, I'm sure there must be aspects of the film that seemed like direct callbacks to The Dark Knight Returns or The Death of Superman. I'm just a sucker for geeky references and parallels. If any more come to mind, I'd love to hear about them.

 

[Ahasverus]

Do Bruce and Clark know each other's identities?

yes, but it's apparently unexplained.

 

[alexandersen]

i still will never want to see a movie where batman kills, so this DCEU is ****ed up for me.

 

[dodong27]

For those who have seen the film already (lucky you!), can anyone share any scenes, shots, or lines of dialogue that reminded you of iconic comic book stories or similar imagery or dialogue in other films or televisions shows? For example, I'm sure there must be aspects of the film that seemed like direct callbacks to The Dark Knight Returns or The Death of Superman. I'm just a sucker for geeky references and parallels. If any more come to mind, I'd love to hear about them.

There's this one scene in BvS that reminded me;

Spoiler

like an extension to TDK, the prison scene.

 

[Ninjablade]

yes, but it's apparently unexplained.

Some said that Clark finds out at Lex's party by listening in on Bruce and Alfred's conversation. I assume Clark tells Batman who he is after Batman saves Martha.

 

[Ninjablade]

i still will never want to see a movie where batman kills, so this DCEU is ****ed up for me.

But Batman has killed in all of his live action appearances though both on accident and on purpose.

 

[alexandersen]

But Batman has killed in all of his live action appearances though both on accident and on purpose.

I dont care about the movies really, im a fan of the comics, the games and the animated movies, and in those universes killing is a nogo for batman, accidents are ok tho, but in BvS those are completely aware killings, even tho he couldve gone without killing.

i was excited for the fact that this batman is near to the comics and the no killing rule but damn, snyder is a dumb moron.

 

[Rain in Gotham]

But surely supes can just see who batman is with his vision when they first meet.

 

[TripleJ]

I dont care about the movies really, im a fan of the comics, the games and the animated movies, and in those universes killing is a nogo for batman, accidents are ok tho, but in BvS those are completely aware killings, even tho he couldve gone without killing.

i was excited for the fact that this batman is near to the comics and the no killing rule but damn, snyder is a dumb moron.

So, I guess Bill Finger and Bob Kane are also morons.

Dude - try to be open minded. DC has always encouraged multiverse, and multiple versions of these characters. Snyder is creating his interpretation - you don't have to like it, but calling him a moron is a bit much.

 

[NateHevens]

I dont care about the movies really, im a fan of the comics, the games and the animated movies, and in those universes killing is a nogo for batman, accidents are ok tho, but in BvS those are completely aware killings, even tho he couldve gone without killing.

i was excited for the fact that this batman is near to the comics and the no killing rule but damn, snyder is a dumb moron.

It never made any sense to me that there wouldn't be casualties in Batman's war. And what's more, while the Joker is honestly my favorite comic book villain of all time, the reality is that Jason Todd was right... Batman should have killed him (the Joker) a long time ago.

The no kill rule was never realistic in Batman's world, IMO. A noble ideal, yes, and I do sympathize with Bruce Wayne's disgust for it.

But he simply can't just not kill. The revolving door of Arkham is proof of that.

I'm fine with Batman killing. I'd be less fine with it if they turned him into a Punisher-type, but as long as it's only as a last resort and something he otherwise avoids as much as possible, I'm fine with Batman killing sometimes.

And for the record, in our real world, I'm a pacifist who is against the death penalty without exception. But we're talking about the fictional, comic-book world of Batman, here.

 

[alexandersen]

So, I guess Bill Finger and Bob Kane are also morons.

Dude - try to be open minded. DC has always encouraged multiverse, and multiple versions of these characters. Snyder is creating his interpretation - you don't have to like it, but calling him a moron is a bit much.

Bill Finger and Bob Kane created Batman, which is far different from the Batman that is actually famous nowadays, and for me and alot other people Batman is a person that is all about the hate that people get killed, he is completely agains killing, and the fact that he doesnt kill makes him different from the rest, now he is at exactly the same level as the joker and deserves to be put in prison. Hero my ass.

 

[Dr doomsday]

I dont care about the movies really, im a fan of the comics, the games and the animated movies, and in those universes killing is a nogo for batman, accidents are ok tho, but in BvS those are completely aware killings, even tho he couldve gone without killing.

i was excited for the fact that this batman is near to the comics and the no killing rule but damn, snyder is a dumb moron.

Guess Nolan's a moron too, Batman killed just as a many people there, also I'm guessing the film doesn't say they're dead, so there's wiggle room. Not that this matters every movie Batman has killed usually in the heat of the moment like this, also Alfred is the one piloting the Bat plane as the trailer shows so technically Batman doesn't kill, it has just as much wiggle room as any others.

"You look like you takes batman comics too seriously, you want my opinion you need to lighten up."

 

[Mach2Infinity]

The idea of Batman bonding with Superman because their mothers name is Martha is fantastic. But I don't think Batman wants to save her because she is called Martha, but because in that moment I think, at the brink of becoming the monster he loathed, is when he snaps and realizes what Batman really stands for. He wanted to fight injustice so others wouldn't lose their parents.

At least that's how I see it.

Absolutely, spot on. I thought something similar the other night. If he became Batman so that no other person would lose a parent and go through what he did. Then failing to save Superman's mother, regardless of whether he's a superpowered alien would still count as a failure in Batman's eyes.

 

[alexandersen]

It never made any sense to me that there wouldn't be casualties in Batman's war. And what's more, while the Joker is honestly my favorite comic book villain of all time, the reality is that Jason Todd was right... Batman should have killed him (the Joker) a long time ago.

The no kill rule was never realistic in Batman's world, IMO. A noble ideal, yes, and I do sympathize with Bruce Wayne's disgust for it.

But he simply can't just not kill. The revolving door of Arkham is proof of that.

I'm fine with Batman killing. I'd be less fine with it if they turned him into a Punisher-type, but as long as it's only as a last resort and something he otherwise avoids as much as possible, I'm fine with Batman killing sometimes.

And for the record, in our real world, I'm a pacifist who is the death penalty without exception. But we're talking about the fictional, comic-book world of Batman, here.

But he couldve easily avoided those kills in the movie, and the fact that he doesnt kill the joker, even tho he kils up to a thousand people a year makes it interesting, batman always focuses on being better than the rest, not killing no matter the cost, but now he could easily give a **** about martial arts and plans, he can just develope van sized ak74s and shoot everyone.

 

[alexandersen]

,
"You looks like you takes batman comics too seriously, you want my opinion you need to lighten up."[/QUOTE]

As i said earlier, i dont care about any of the reallife batman movies, those never did the real batman any justice anyway, and i talked to alot of people that have already seen the movie, and at that point bruce was shooting, alfred took controle of the batplane when he jumped out.

 

[Ninjablade]

Even in comic books, after the Finger and Kane days, Batman has killed multiple times. Especially in the 80's.

 

[TripleJ]

Bill Finger and Bob Kane created Batman, which is far different from the Batman that is actually famous nowadays, and for me and alot other people Batman is a person that is all about the hate that people get killed, he is completely agains killing, and the fact that he doesnt kill makes him different from the rest, now he is at exactly the same level as the joker and deserves to be put in prison. Hero my ass.

Batman who is actually famous - well, that Batman doesn't resemble that Batman you are referring to (one I presuming is the most popular in comics).

No, it doesn't. He works with people who have problem with killing (his rule is kind of iffy, if you ask me) - Diana and Arthur for instance. Barry has also killed. So has Hal. And all of them are heroes.

Killing doesn't make you any less of a hero. In fact, Bruce has done more damage to Gotham by not killing people like Joker.

 

[alexandersen]

Im not trying to be a dick, everyone loves batman for other reasons, i always loved him for being better than the rest, not killing, i find it strange to realize 80% of the batman fanbase doesnt care about him killing, as soon as i heard they are gonna do a dceu the first thought was "finally a batman like i love him, one that doesnt kill no matter what happens" (atleast straight up kills)
i was excited EVERY SINGLE DAY for 3 years since the first batman picture of affleck got released, then the first teaser came out, and i was destroyed, seeing the batwing blow up people i was afraid and started making out reasons why it wasnt batman, then the comic con trailer came out, and i was even more afraid seeing batman snap a neck, then during the time of the second trailer ive read the official bvs guidebook from warner bros and it stated that batmans first prority is not killing, then the final trailer came out and it looked like aflred blew up those goons and i was happier and hyped then ever, and now - well ****

 

[alexandersen]

Batman who is actually famous - well, that Batman doesn't resemble that Batman you are referring to (one I presuming is the most popular in comics).

No, it doesn't. He works with people who have problem with killing (his rule is kind of iffy, if you ask me) - Diana and Arthur for instance. Barry has also killed. So has Hal. And all of them are heroes.

Killing doesn't make you any less of a hero. In fact, Bruce has done more damage to Gotham by not killing people like Joker.

Batman always critisized the rest of the league for killing.

 

[NateHevens]

But he couldve easily avoided those kills in the movie, and the fact that he doesnt kill the joker, even tho he kils up to a thousand people a year makes it interesting, batman always focuses on being better than the rest, not killing no matter the cost, but now he could easily give a **** about martial arts and plans, he can just develope van sized ak74s and shoot everyone.

I should stress that Batman is my favorite hero. Batman (and Wonder Woman, but mostly Batman) is why I'm a DC fanboy first. I think Batman and his stories are incredible and he is a fascinating hero. So keep that in mind when you read this:

IMO, the fact that he doesn't kill the Joker makes him an idiot. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about that. I agree with Jason Todd on that.

ETA: For the record, Batman doesn't snap any real necks in this film: that is the Knightmare sequence, so it's (literally) all in his head.

 

[BH/HHH]

I should stress that Batman is my favorite hero. Batman (and Wonder Woman, but mostly Batman) is why I'm a DC fanboy first. I think Batman and his stories are incredible and he is a fascinating hero. So keep that in mind when you read this:

IMO, the fact that he doesn't kill the Joker makes him an idiot. I'm sorry, but that's how I feel about that. I agree with Jason Todd on that.

ETA: For the record, Batman doesn't snap any real necks in this film: that is the Knightmare sequence, so it's (literally) all in his head.

Yeah it's a valid feeling to have, even in the Dark Knight Returns Batman says "all the people I've murdered by letting you live". Batman knows he should kil him but he can't bring himself to do it. Ive always felt Bruce may say he wants to hang up the cape and cowl but he doesn't want to. I think keeping the Joker around also means he need to be Batman and he doesn't want to lose that. I dunno maybe I'm not explaining it well enough.

 

[Lando81]

Batman always critisized the rest of the league for killing.

No he doesn't because the League doesn't kill.

 

[TripleJ]

Batman always critisized the rest of the league for killing.

Not always. Sure, in some stories. But, he still works with them.

The biggest example I can think of is when both Bruce and Clark went after Diana killed Max in IC.

Not really a fan of that though. Those two had the nerve to question Diana after she saved both of them.

(Max was about to force Clark to kill Bruce).

 

[Poni_Boy]

Batman: You don't understand. I don't think you'd ever understood.

Jason Todd: What? What, your moral code just won't allow for that? It's too hard to cross that line?

Batman: No. God Almighty, no. It'd be too damned easy. All I've ever wanted to do is kill him. A day doesn't go by I don't think about subjecting him to every horrendous torture he's dealt out to others, and then end him.

I get where he's coming from. Killing is easy. Choosing not to is the hard part. Some people prefer that. I grew up with Keaton Batman soooo doesn't bother me much.

 

[Lando81]

Also everyone complaining about the movie who hasn't seen it, maybe slow your roll and actually watch the movie before getting your panties in a bunch.