BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 4

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Be glad that Zack and Chris are taking this beloved characters and bringing them into a very serious and real world scenario.

I'm not glad, I'm furious. I'd rather that the characters have no movies than be butchered by Terrio and Snyder.

Just because you like the character doesn't mean you need to like the movie, and if fans protect Snyder and Terrio we'll be stuck with this rubbish again and again.

We deserve better and so do the characters.
 
I'm not glad, I'm furious. I'd rather that the characters have no movies than be butchered by Terrio and Snyder.

Just because you like the character doesn't mean you need to like the movie, and if fans protect Snyder and Terrio we'll be stuck with this rubbish again and again.

We deserve better and so do the characters.

That sucks for you dude.
 
Did anyone else love the end of the BvS fight as much as I did?

Definitely my favourite bit of the film. They took something really small but heartfelt (the fact both their moms have the same name) and used it to bring the characters back from the brink. I was really really satisfied with that.

Actually one of the things I found irritating about Nolan's films was the way he ignored Martha for the most part and focused mainly on Bruce's feelings about his dad. It was nice to feel that it was actually the thought of his mom, that stopped him from going fully dark

I haven't seen the film, but am absolutely shameless when it comes to spoilers. I've heard about this scene and can't wait to see it.
 
Mjölnir;33250489 said:
At that point he was already fighting Batman, trying to beat him into submission. You don't smash a human through an entire apartment building if you're just trying to calm someone.

From how the scene was set up it actually looked like Superman could easily have avoided the fight. Either by trying to talk to him more, instead of quitting so easily and eventually beat the crap out of him, or to just restrain Batman so he's forced to listen.

Superman could have easily avoided the fight. Batman could have easily avoided the fight had he just done his research. The whole thing is ridiculous. It's frankly a joke that this was they best they could do to get these two into a brawl.
 
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She overheard Superman/Batman's conversation about it being Kryptonian, as I recall.
I was wondering how she knew to go back for the spear as well. From my memory, she doesn't overhear anything, she's only present when Batman/Superman discuss saving Martha and Supes going to see what Lex is up to. Then Lois randomly tosses the spear down in the water when she's alone as Bats takes on Lex's goons and Supes sees that Lex is creating Doomsday.

The Trinity discuss how to take on Doomsday and Bats mentions the spear but for some reason we eventually cut to Lois deciding to retrieve the spear. We don't see Batman communicating with her to do so but I guess we're supposed to accept she's smart enough to put it all together when I doubt she had any idea what was happening from where she was, which was Gotham and Doomsday was born in Metropolis.
 
I haven't seen the film, but am absolutely shameless when it comes to spoilers. I've heard about this scene and can't wait to see it.

I feel like it was my little ray of light and hope in a sort of heavy film. But sometimes, that's all you need.
 
Sid Adlakha's article has a great summation of how this film offers not just a terrible iteration of Superman but more or less misunderstands or ignores what the filmmakers did in Man of Steel vis a vis Pa Kent.

The handling of Superman’s turn towards sacrificial hero is hardly any better. During a pivotal moment, after he stands around in a flaming courtroom not really bothering about those injured, he tells Lois he fears he didn’t see the bomb coming because he wasn’t looking. That’s a potentially interesting starting point for his journey (some 90 minutes into the film) but the very next thing he says is something that contradicts the entirety of Man of Steel. He refers to Superman, the saviour of humans, as a farmer’s dream – his father’s dream. The conflict here is that this may be someone he doesn’t want to be, but it goes against the entire basis for this version of the character. Not the fact that he’s questioning heroism, but that he’s doing so as a rejection of his father’s wishes. In the first film, the whole reason Superman questions being a hero is because that’s exactly what his father instilled in him. It’s a weird piece of retconning that, while bringing his origin closer to the comics, ends up making Superman even more of an ******* here. In this moment he isn’t struggling with heroism, caught between a desire to do good and a sense of pragmatic self-interest. He simply doesn’t care. In Watchmen, Doctor Manhattan’s aloofness and disinterest in humanity came from being able to see its cosmic insignificance. This Superman, on the other hand, comes off as a sociopath.
 
Jesse sucked as well. It's like everything that could go wrong did go wrong with this.

Lex sucked
Batman is Punisher
Superman does dumb stuff
Lois is back to being saved all film long

Plus the film dragged. I was waiting for this to end so bad.
 
Sad Affleck video - Daredevil flashbacks. I feel so bad for him - his Batman was the best thing about the movie. And Henry Cavill's being such a trooper staying positive.

I wanted both to have a better movie.

[YT]watch?v=cwXfv25xJUw[/YT]
 
From my memory, she doesn't overhear anything

.....but for some reason we eventually cut to Lois deciding to retrieve the spear.

No, there's a scene right before she goes to retrieve the spear where she's quietly looking upwards (I assume this is when she overhears the convo), and she instantly turns around to run towards where she hid the spear. It's short, but it's there. Blink and it's gone type of thing.
 
I fricking called the Lex being in a jumpsuit when that photo was first released. I remember being questioned by someone as to why we assumed it was a prison jumpsuit. Was certain he was going to lose his hair only when he gets to prison. Poor Jesse had to shave his head for only such a small scene. Haha
 
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The only way to make these two characters fight and not have them seem stupid is if it's done for ideological issues - - because both characters believe they're right, know the situation fully going in, but disagree so strongly that they can't help but come to blows. Even then it's forced...but it's the only way. When a simple conversation or iota of research is all that would be required to prevent the fight...that doesn't work.

If you were going to have Batman kill in this movie, then they should have really gone into the idea that after Man of Steel Clark just cannot abide killing. So have Bruce angry about the 9/11 in Metropolis and Clark mad that Batman is killing guys. Something like that.

When it would be as easy as Superman either A) Finding his mother with his amazing hearing and eye-sight and saving her just like that. Or B) The second he flies down to Batman saying "Hey, I know we've got bat blood but my Mom is in trouble"

Ugh. Frustrating.
 
I feel like it was my little ray of light and hope in a sort of heavy film. But sometimes, that's all you need.

Indeed. A moment of genuine emotion can make a huge difference to the overall feel a person has leaving the theater.
 
Sid Adlakha's article has a great summation of how this film offers not just a terrible iteration of Superman but more or less misunderstands or ignores what the filmmakers did in Man of Steel vis a vis Pa Kent.


That line blew my mind. Such a huge part of MoS was Pa Kent's over protective (and in my opinion assholish) messages to Clark. He said Clark would change the world but never ever talked about heroism. Except when he said he maybe should've let Clark's classmates all die.
 
I fricking called the Lex being in a jumpsuit when that photo was first released. I remember being questioned by someone as to why we assumed it was a prison jumpsuit. Was certain he was going to lose his hair when he gets to prison. Poor Jesse had to shave his head for only such a small scene. Haha

Some figures were leaked a few months ago, which spoiled that revelation anyway.
 
The only way to make these two characters fight and not have them seem stupid is if it's done for ideological issues - - because both characters believe they're right, know the situation fully going in, but disagree so strongly that they can't help but come to blows. Even then it's forced...but it's the only way. When a simple conversation or iota of research is all that would be required to prevent the fight...that doesn't work.

If you were going to have Batman kill in this movie, then they should have really gone into the idea that after Man of Steel Clark just cannot abide killing. So have Bruce angry about the 9/11 in Metropolis and Clark mad that Batman is killing guys. Something like that.

When it would be as easy as Superman either A) Finding his mother with his amazing hearing and eye-sight and saving her just like that. Or B) The second he flies down to Batman saying "Hey, I know we've got bat blood but my Mom is in trouble"

Ugh. Frustrating.

The only way a fight works is if there's some level of history between these two. This is why I believe Civil War will blow this out of the water. We have a history between Stark and Rogers and thus there's already far more emotional weight behind it than this movie. Civil War could never have happened before the first Avengers movie. Marvel has got it right.
 
I'm not glad, I'm furious. I'd rather that the characters have no movies than be butchered by Terrio and Snyder.

Just because you like the character doesn't mean you need to like the movie, and if fans protect Snyder and Terrio we'll be stuck with this rubbish again and again.

We deserve better and so do the characters.

You are entitled to your opinion TheScarecrow and I respect it. But these characters that you are talking about have been threw multiple interpretations. Each different and some better than others. For instance I love Post Crisis DC Universe but I hate the New 52 Universe I still have hope for the characters and I still buy the comics and I know that eventually it will change again. The only thing that I like about the new 52 is that they brought Superman from Post Crisis back :cwink: And in a few months we get the Rebirth series.
 
No, there's a scene right before she goes to retrieve the spear where she's quietly looking upwards (I assume this is when she overhears the convo), and she instantly turns around to run towards where she hid the spear. It's short, but it's there. Blink and it's gone type of thing.
Hmm, I thought she was left behind in Gotham, and the fight took place in Metropolis, and then Supes having to go out of his way to save her from drowning. I guess they all eventually ended up in the same vicinity but it wasn't clear to me, I'm sure my second viewing will help.
 
Jesse sucked as well. It's like everything that could go wrong did go wrong with this.

Lex sucked
Batman is Punisher
Superman does dumb stuff
Lois is back to being saved all film long

Plus the film dragged. I was waiting for this to end so bad.

Wow you viewd an entirely different movie from the one that I got to see today.
 
Saw the movie tonight so I haven't read these threads but has anyone discussed how the fact that because Clark Kent is dead and buried there is basically no possible way for any additional Clark/Daily Planet scenes unless everyone knows he's superman? At least in the comics they buried superman and I think Clark was just presumed missing. Worst part of the movie for me because it has a major negative impact on future films.
 
Didn't think Batman was any different from 89 tbh, loved that part of it.
 
"Hey, I know we've got bat blood but my Mom is in trouble"

lol pun.

To add on to Batman's motivations, remember the Knightmare sequence and what future Flash told him? His fears are valid and no amount of research is going to be able to explain that away.
 
Hmm, I thought she was left behind in Gotham, and the fight took place in Metropolis, and then Supes having to go out of his way to save her from drowning. I guess they all eventually ended up in the same vicinity but it wasn't clear to me, I'm sure my second viewing will help.

She was in Gotham, and away from the fight, but Batman lured Doomsday back to Gotham because he knew the spear was there. If you can recall that short interaction with Wonder Woman who asked him why he brought Doomsday back to a populated area and he responded. Come to think of it, that might be the scene that Lois witnessed.
 
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