BvS The Unabashed SPOILER Thread. ENTER AT OWN RISK. - Part 5

[RadioSha]

No, man. Martha is Clark's Mom. Clark's Mom is named Martha. Batman has just as much chance in finding her either way.

Without Lois popping in to explain, he wouldn't have known who the F Martha was. If he uttered "mom" at least Batman would know its Superman's Mother, so he'd know where to START looking at least. Lois would need to pop in either way.

Holy crap, this is so dumb either way.

Actually, Supes saying Martha now makes sense. Of course he'd still want his mom to be saved.

 

[jmc]

They were always near each other in the comics. Gotham is an island off of New Jersey, Metropolis is in Delaware.

I don't know if it's ever been properly established where each city is actually located, I've seen instances where Metropolis is not far from Smallville and thousands of kms from Gotham. The location of each city relative to each other kinda moves when it's needed.

 

[RadioSha]

I don't know if it's ever been properly established where each city is actually located, I've seen instances where Metropolis is not far from Smallville and thousands of kms from Gotham. The location of each city relative to each other kinda moves when it's needed.

jmc, what did you think of the movie?

 

[Herolee10]

If Snyder continues with JL, we're ****ed.

If Snyder leaves JL and causes it to be postponed, we're still ****ed.

 

[TWayneP]

Actually, Supes saying Martha now makes sense. Of course he'd still want his mom to be saved.

How so? I just think the idea is dumb to begin with. I don't know if it will ever make sense.

 

[jmc]

jmc, what did you think of the movie?

A long, laborious mess with paper thin character motivations. I have no interest in seeing a Snyder JL movie after this.

 

[Andreth]

I want to be real with you guys. The religious mumbo jumbo allegories really bothered me.

.

To be honest hearing the word God being said constantly started to annoy me.

 

[marieylee]

So, if Supe had said, "you must save my mom", would that mean Batman would have killed him?

 

[RadioSha]

How so? I just think the idea is dumb to begin with. I don't know if it will ever make sense.

Supes is clearly powerless. He is almost accepting death.

Granted, I still think that he should of at least murmured "mom" or something. But I think it just shows you Supes is thinking of others before himself. He wanted to save his mom so he said her name. I think it worked.

That and I really like the Martha connection between Clark and Bruce. It was powerful--- though we really didn't need to flashback to a chunk of the opening sequence again. Maybe just a two-shot between Thomas and Martha.

Yo. Let me recut the movie. I swear there's a good movie in there somewhere.

 

[RadioSha]

A long, laborious mess with paper thin character motivations. I have no interest in seeing a Snyder JL movie after this.

Same. Yay. We agreed.

 

[jmc]

Supes is clearly powerless. He is almost accepting death.

Granted, I still think that he should of at least murmured "mom" or something. But I think it just shows you Supes is thinking of others before himself. He wanted to save his mom so he said her name. I think it worked.

That and I really like the Martha connection between Clark and Bruce. It was powerful--- though we really didn't need to flashback to a chunk of the opening sequence again. Maybe just a two-shot between Thomas and Martha.

Yo. Let me recut the movie. I swear there's a good movie in there somewhere.

I'm actually not convinced there is. I think the fatal flaw in retrospect is these two characters had no history together. The motivations for the fight were always going to be thin because of the lack of knowledge each had about one and other. Civil War I believe is going to show us what happens when characters who do have history together come to blows, and I honestly expect a far better result than this.

 

[gugumugats]

I really really wanted to like this movie and was really optimistic about it (I'm a TDKrises and TASM2 apologist).

It feels like a high school student snorted cocaine and decided to pretentiously write a book report on some complex Russian novel because he was able to gain some insight from reading the Cliffnotes while high on marijuana. Said student was able to put together a kick-ass outline and come up with some great paragraphs and themes. Sadly, the students drug problem prevented him from putting his sentences together in a logical manner and you can't forget the fact that this is an inexperienced high school student trying to grasp Russian Literature.

To grieve and rationalize I'm telling myself that Snyder is trying to go full Grant Morrison.

 

[gugumugats]

Supes is clearly powerless. He is almost accepting death.

Granted, I still think that he should of at least murmured "mom" or something. But I think it just shows you Supes is thinking of others before himself. He wanted to save his mom so he said her name. I think it worked.

That and I really like the Martha connection between Clark and Bruce. It was powerful--- though we really didn't need to flashback to a chunk of the opening sequence again. Maybe just a two-shot between Thomas and Martha.

Yo. Let me recut the movie. I swear there's a good movie in there somewhere.

There really is some potential here and I kept thinking throughout the movie that someone should recut this into something more palatable.

 

[Andreth]

I'm actually not convinced there is. I think the fatal flaw in retrospect is these two characters had no history together. The motivations for the fight were always going to be thin because of the lack of knowledge each had about one and other. Civil War I believe is going to show us what happens when characters who do have history together come to blows, and I honestly expect a far better result than this.

But the lack of knowledge IS the motivation.

 

[jmc]

But the lack of knowledge IS the motivation.

But it's not interesting. There's nothing about two people who speak literally twice before their brawl that's of any value. No build up means there's no investment in the confrontation.

 

[RadioSha]

I'm actually not convinced there is. I think the fatal flaw in retrospect is these two characters had no history together. The motivations for the fight were always going to be thin because of the lack of knowledge each had about one and other. Civil War I believe is going to show us what happens when characters who do have history together come to blows, and I honestly expect a far better result than this.

No, you're right I agree. The motivations were never fleshed out.

My biggest concern about this movie is Lex- not just because it was an offputting, literally bastardized characterization, but he was used as a Joker type device to pit these guys against one another. He was drawn out the worst.

There is such a great history throughout comics and popular culture and in the media where you can find great contrast between the ideologies and crime-fighting approaches between Batman and Superman and they NEVER got even close to tapping in to it. They didn't even give them ample time to engage one another verbally. Only one time at that party, and WE ALL SAW IT in the trailers.

I don't think any cut can save the movie from Lex, but there is a good plot there to be told. Not a masterpiece, but less jarring.

Shorten the Africa stuff and James-Bruce-Bond infiltrating Lex's party. Remove the Indian Ocean stuff and the KGBeast subplot with the fight club and the phone. Remove Justice League email and Flash cameo (although that was cool) and shorten the nightmare sequences.

 

[RadioSha]

Before the critic barrage, I was hoping that this movie was brimming with Batman/Bruce and Superman/Clark clashing against each other in a non-combative way and that the critics got bored of it.

We didn't even get that! No it was just... boring. Boring because of useless scenes like Lois and that general meeting in the bathroom and under bridges and in the park and this and that...

Just choose one, Snyder.

 

[Poni_Boy]

To grieve and rationalize I'm telling myself that Snyder is trying to go full Grant Morrison.

Comparing Grant Morrison to Zack Snyder is like comparing an angsty film school kid with his little brother who's smashing action figures together in a sandbox

 

[Poni_Boy]

So, if Supe had said, "you must save my mom", would that mean Batman would have killed him?

Who knows. Batman likes to just kill things apparently.

 

[Rapunzel]

My thoughts on the Martha thing:

1. Clark overhears Bruce at the Lex party. He knows he's doing something funny, so he researches him and gets his backstory...including Martha and Thomas' death. But he doesn't know Bruce is Batman...

2. He stops Bats in the "do you bleed?" scene and x-rays his face and discovers it's Bruce, the man he's suspicious about....due to his research, he knows Bruce's history, he has sympathy and let's him off with a warning....intending that to be the end. In other words, Supes has already changed his mind on Bats and decided he's alright enough to earn a second chance.

2. Lex kidnaps Martha. Says "kill the Bat". He knows Bats has the K-rock. Figures it'll lead to Supes' death.

4. Supes sees Lois and is upset cause he sees no way out....Flys to Bats...Tries to reason with Bats...fails and gets caught up in the fight/survival.

5. When down, Supes, knowing Bruce's history, INTENTIONALLY says "Martha" because he knows Bruce is thinking about his parents and they are important to him. He understands Bruce's vulnerability, and uses it against him. He knows how he'd react if he was Bats, and plays that to sway Bats' opinion of him.

 

[Snow Queen]

For a movie called Batman v Superman, there was far too little of that angle. It should have been a moral disagreement that stemmed from differing world views and methods that escalated due to frame jobs by Luthor rather than something as simplified and lazy as "I kidnapped your mum, go fight Batman to the death now!" and one line for why each dislikes the other.

 

[jmc]

Before the critic barrage, I was hoping that this movie was brimming with Batman/Bruce and Superman/Clark clashing against each other in a non-combative way and that the critics got bored of it.

We didn't even get that! No it was just... boring. Boring because of useless scenes like Lois and that general meeting in the bathroom and under bridges and in the park and this and that...

Just choose one, Snyder.

The lack of interaction between the two was honestly the most shocking thing to me about this whole thing, it's like they purposely kept the two characters apart so they didn't have to address the issue of why the should fight. The two clips released of them talking to one and other are literally all there is, and that still dumbfounds me. 2 clips that can be found online is the extent of their animosity. That is why this movie fails, it couldn't give a justification for the premise of the movie.

 

[Poni_Boy]

My thoughts on the Martha thing:

1. Clark overhears Bruce at the Lex party. He knows he's doing something funny, so he researches him and gets his backstory...including Martha and Thomas' death. But he doesn't know Bruce is Batman...

2. He stops Bats in the "do you bleed?" scene and x-rays his face and discovers it's Bruce, the man he's suspicious about....due to his research, he knows Bruce's history, he has sympathy and let's him off with a warning....intending that to be the end. In other words, Supes has already changed his mind on Bats and decided he's alright enough to earn a second chance.

2. Lex kidnaps Martha. Says "kill the Bat". He knows Bats has the K-rock. Figures it'll lead to Supes' death.

4. Supes sees Lois and is upset cause he sees no way out....Flys to Bats...Tries to reason with Bats...fails and gets caught up in the fight/survival.

5. When down, Supes, knowing Bruce's history, INTENTIONALLY says "Martha" because he knows Bruce is thinking about his parents and they are important to him. He understands Bruce's vulnerability, and uses it against him. He knows how he'd react if he was Bats, and plays that to sway Bats' opinion of him.

That is a whole lot of jumping to conclusions. And that's just to explain one aspect of the story.

 

[Andreth]

Before the critic barrage, I was hoping that this movie was brimming with Batman/Bruce and Superman/Clark clashing against each other in a non-combative way and that the critics got bored of it.

We didn't even get that! No it was just... boring. Boring because of useless scenes like Lois and that general meeting in the bathroom and under bridges and in the park and this and that...

Just choose one, Snyder.

I just don't get this, sure you can have an opinion about a movie, but all those scenes you mention were vitally important, but looks like since she's not a character you care about you take her presence as boring and useless. All those scene served the purpose of showing step by step how she connected the dots and traced the bullet to Lexcorp (with the help of the general) this gave her the evidence to expose him, which led to Lex being jailed. This also made Lex's plan to frame superman for the Africa incient and the bomb totally exposed, freeing Superman from all responsability. The world started to HATE superman because Lex's plan worked, and she exposed all that.

 

[thorstone]

To be honest hearing the word God being said constantly started to annoy me.

You're gonna get an ulcer when you see the WW movie then. All of this business about gods is definitely setting us up for her story (and God and country will be front and center themes in the lives of people in WWI).