The Wrestling Thread Has More Hype Than WrestleMania XXIX - Part 91

[UnionJack]

Not a bad Raw, still don't get Fandango, though he will put on a good match at WM with Y2J the guy is on an epic roll lately. I still think he needs a belt IC or WHC as he is back to his best.

The HHH/Barrett face off was nice, a possible hint at the future?!
Then he jobs to Mr Toad since he has a POS film out, wonder if he is letting Vincey play around with his soon-to-be wife for all these chances, as he has little skill and is just boring in character and mic.


The Shield match was crap, really bored of these guys now.

Happy to see my future ex-wife Kaitlyn get some sort of story/screentime. Just hope she doesn't drop the belt to AJ at Mania. I enjoy looking at AJ in her short shorts but she's not ready for a title, she's not had a real match in ages.

Holy shiii The Rock is super pumped, he seems to get bigger and more ripped every week, just hope he's worked on some cardio or at least alittle DDP Yoga to help out in ring. He will need it working with Cena who isn't that great.
A full half hour of this odd panel/debate ... where we just get Cena rambling on and on as always.
Why can't he just make his point, sort and blunt, meaningful. I get the impression he is bored, I feel nothing when he speaks anymore, even when he tries to be serious all I know is he will ramble on then shout at the end.

I kind of want Rock to win again. Prove he is truly the better of the two, more so to send Cena into another spiral and turn heel, just something to freshing the character please god something!! Get him out of the stupid merch uniform that makes him look like a roided up special person.

 

[SpideyFan866]

This place and the entire IWC would explode if Cena turned heel.

Dude.... you have no idea.

the IWC would probably dissolve until a time where they were needed again if that happened.

 

[Metallo]

Originally Posted by I'm Venom
Cena should hate Rock for all the reasons he's stated, plus the fact that Rock humiliated him at WrestleMania last year. Rock should hate Cena because Cena is annoying. I wish they’d let Rock point out how much buys have dropped with Cena on top. I understand why they won't go there, but it would add a lot of fire to the feud if Rock said he was pissed at Cena because he made wrestling unpopular. Cena is desperate to win. He can't face the prospect of losing to Rock again, and that would make him desperate enough to do anything. Will he do something simple, like use the ropes for leverage, or violent, like waffle Rock with a chair or the title? Or will he sell his soul to Shield or Vince McMahon? I've got to say they have me eager to find out. The one way to build interest among fans for this match is to tease Cena turning, so bravo to them for that, dude looks desperate.

Antman's right. buyrates and ratings were dropping ten years ago. Before Cena got the top spot. And not even Rock has been able to raise everything much. The problem is a more fundamental one.

Poor decisions like the handeling of the Invasion and the ECW relaunch have been huge symptoms. Vince always goes for quick fixes and instant gratification when he shouln't and doesn't put the real quality creative problem solving into affect.

Once the MNW cooled off it began to cool down the businesses momentuim and heat. The MNW drove them towards the Attitude Era and drove interest in it. Then the trend died down. In some ways it was unavoidable. In others it wasn't.

 

[nite-owl]

http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_e87zn04c

 

[Pink Ranger]

Dude.... you have no idea.

the IWC would probably dissolve until a time where they were needed again if that happened.

HHH: Pop, how does it work now? They've gone their separate ways, some pretty extremely far. We get into a situation like this again, what happens then?

VINCE: They'll come back.

HHH: You really sure about that?

VINCE: I am.

HHH: Why?

VINCE: Because we'll need them to.


**A Joss Whedon film**

 

[Hunter Rider]

The theory is that the business changed for WWE when Vince got paranoid when Lesnar walked out after a mega push had made him the top star. After that Vince was supposedly reluctant to make stars and shifted the focus to the WWE brand being the draw.

I'm not really sure this is true as Cena has been pushed to the moon even more than Brock was and Batista got a pretty healthy push as well, plus Orton would have had he not had his various issues. I think these 3 were meant to be the new Austin, Rock and HHH in terms of the top 3 stars.

Probably the biggest thing to affect the business was the Benoit murder/suicide, that cast a dark cloud over the industry and I'm not sure it's fully recovered in terms of creative quality, as the heavily kidified product was a direct result of the tragedy and I think WWE took it too far to the point that it caused a misjudged creative shift in the character of their top guy and everything else followed suit, losing a lot of the fans of the previous era.

http://www.tmz.com/videos/0_e87zn04c

Ouch! He must have done that spot a 100 times without a problem as well.

 

[nite-owl]

It's still not as painful as his sex tape.

 

[UnionJack]

Heavily kidified product was a direct result of the tragedy and I think WWE took it too far to the point that it caused a misjudged creative shift in the character of their top guy and everything else followed suit, losing a lot of the fans of the previous era.

While I'm happy for the product to appeal to everyone I think it has gone too far into the PG mode to really attract the "college" crowd anymore.

I'm 28 and only watch as I have done since I was 5.

 

[chamber-music]

Win the big one?

We're his previous 10 big ones so meaningless that Cena's forgot about them?

Everyone is the big one to Cena.

I don't know why WWE always try to paint Cena as the underdog when everyone knows he isn't.

 

[Metallo]

The theory is that the business changed for WWE when Vince got paranoid when Lesnar walked out after a mega push had made him the top star. After that Vince was supposedly reluctant to make stars and shifted the focus to the WWE brand being the draw.

I'm not really sure this is true as Cena has been pushed to the moon even more than Brock was and Batista got a pretty healthy push as well, plus Orton would have had he not had his various issues. I think these 3 were meant to be the new Austin, Rock and HHH in terms of the top 3 stars.

Probably the biggest thing to affect the business was the Benoit murder/suicide, that cast a dark cloud over the industry and I'm not sure it's fully recovered in terms of creative quality, as the heavily kidified product was a direct result of the tragedy and I think WWE took it too far to the point that it caused a misjudged creative shift in the character of their top guy and everything else followed suit, losing a lot of the fans of the previous era.



Ouch! He must have done that spot a 100 times without a problem as well.

Except Cena is the most coprporately created face of the company ever...including Lesnar. Cena didn't make himself nearly as much as Hogan or Austin did. Vince didn't have to negotiate with him to come back and offer him the top spot after a Rocky III the way he did with Hogan. Vince was building the company so he needed someone like Hogan. He wasn't left with no choice and desperate the way he was with Austin, who was getting over huge.

Part of the reason Cena got the top spot was because Vince knew he was commited and dependable. He looks for that more than ever. A person he can puppet that can't or won't rock the boat too much. But he also knew that unlike most other top stars Cena had no real power to hold him over a fire ala Hogan and Michaels and no real incentive to make trouble. Cenas from a different time and had no ego driven ambitions in the sense that his predacessors had. Vince gave Cena everything when he didn't HAVE to so what could he want? He also has no real leverage to go anywhere else because he's got Vince's brand stamped on his a** harder than anyone else ever has. Cena has to know that if he decides to walk out in a big dispute (not that he ever would) that Vince will just counter with "I created you I'll just create someone else."

The comically truncated push of Ryback for a while was proof of that. I've never seen Vince try to push a guy so lacking in areas to the top like that so fast. Not even The Ultimate Warrior. Vince tried to see if he could "make" Ryback. But it didn't quite work out as well as he hoped as far as giving him some kind of immediate credibility. Now they've slowed that build down again.

But Vince still needs that one guy at the top to be the face of the company. The one to be the hero and sell the WWE product to the kids aka the next wave of potential consumers after the turnover of the last waves. Old fans tune out so you need to bring new younger fans in that are impressionable and that could support the company for years. When I say "not pushing the stars" I mean within the whole roster. He still needs to push a few to be the big draws and as long as he has them everyone else falls by the wayside. "Come see the WWE spectacle. The greatest show on earth."

Vince isn't pushing stars like he used to but even he knows he still needs a few at the top. Cena, Rock, Taker, HHH, and to a lesser extent Punk and Lesnar are that. Takers loyal and HHH is family. The only ones Vince really has to worry about going off the reservation are Punk and Lesnar and as long as Brock gets his big money he seems to be ok most of the time. With those few he feels no need to push anyone else. Everyone else is replacable as long as he has a few. It all stems from Vince's incredible overconfidence in his abilities as a promoter right now.

Ortons a prime example. Once he was one of the golden boys. But now that he's become a liability he's been somewhat marginalized despite the years and money they invested in him even though they knew early on that he was trouble. Punks in that number spot for the full timers now so they don't have to worry about needing Randy like they used to. He's become a cog just like everyone else. Its his own fault but it is what it is.

Last time he got busted for a wellness violation in the middle of a major push in a program against Cena they let it slide because he was one of their golden boys. They don't do that for everone and now they aren't taking that risk on him.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The Benoit incident almost destroyed WWE. I don't think the WWE can recover from another such incident.

And if it happens again, don't be surprised if The Rock disappears from the WWE.

 

[Kaleb]

 

[Dr. Evil]

 

[Van Petrol]

This is nice...

 

[TX85]

The Benoit incident almost destroyed WWE. I don't think the WWE can recover from another such incident.

And if it happens again, don't be surprised if The Rock disappears from the WWE.

The sex&steroid scandal didn't destroy WWF in the mid 90's and they survived the Benoit controversy..It'll have to take much more to completely destroy/shut them down!

Only time WWF almost went down was cause WCW was beating them in the ratings by far for nearly two yeas.

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

Wow! That is sweet! If I get it, I'd definitely put it on after hookin up just for the laughs.

 

[Dr. Evil]

The sex&steroid scandal didn't destroy WWF in the mid 90's and they survived the Benoit controversy..It'll have to take much more to completely destroy/shut them down!

Only time WWF almost went down was cause WCW was beating them in the ratings by far for nearly two yeas.

If it happens again, the Rock will never return to the WWE, which would actually make some people happy here.

 

[TX85]

This is nice...

Awesome!

 

[Van Petrol]

Dude.... you have no idea.

the IWC would probably dissolve until a time where they were needed again if that happened.

Lol, I doubt that. I'm sure they'd be back in time for next week's show.

 

[MMMMM...Pancakes]

This is nice...

Love when we get to see these types of things. Though, that Divas belt replica looks a little cheap.

 

[TX85]

If it happens again, the Rock will never return to the WWE, which would actually make some people happy here.

Perhaps But it wouldn't hurt WWE at all,Well a bump in ratings&ppv buy rates But the company shall survive,Anything else will just make the media/non fans..and IWC to bash&b**ch!

Only thing a big scandal could be that could destroy WWE&forever would be IF a video surfaces where Vince McMahon Jr is shown/heard screwing fans in a major way and doing extremely dirty business with money/sex&drugs.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Except Cena is the most coprporately created face of the company ever...including Lesnar. Cena didn't make himself nearly as much as Hogan or Austin did. Vince didn't have to negotiate with him to come back and offer him the top spot after a Rocky III the way he did with Hogan. Vince was building the company so he needed someone like Hogan. He wasn't left with no choice and desperate the way he was with Austin, who was getting over huge.

Part of the reason Cena got the top spot was because Vince knew he was commited and dependable. He looks for that more than ever. A person he can puppet that can't or won't rock the boat too much. But he also knew that unlike most other top stars Cena had no real power to hold him over a fire ala Hogan and Michaels and no real incentive to make trouble. Cenas from a different time and had no ego driven ambitions in the sense that his predacessors had. Vince gave Cena everything when he didn't HAVE to so what could he want? He also has no real leverage to go anywhere else because he's got Vince's brand stamped on his a** harder than anyone else ever has. Cena has to know that if he decides to walk out in a big dispute (not that he ever would) that Vince will just counter with "I created you I'll just create someone else."

The comically truncated push of Ryback for a while was proof of that. I've never seen Vince try to push a guy so lacking in areas to the top like that so fast. Not even The Ultimate Warrior. Vince tried to see if he could "make" Ryback. But it didn't quite work out as well as he hoped as far as giving him some kind of immediate credibility. Now they've slowed that build down again.

But Vince still needs that one guy at the top to be the face of the company. The one to be the hero and sell the WWE product to the kids aka the next wave of potential consumers after the turnover of the last waves. Old fans tune out so you need to bring new younger fans in that are impressionable and that could support the company for years. When I say "not pushing the stars" I mean within the whole roster. He still needs to push a few to be the big draws and as long as he has them everyone else falls by the wayside. "Come see the WWE spectacle. The greatest show on earth."

Vince isn't pushing stars like he used to but even he knows he still needs a few at the top. Cena, Rock, Taker, HHH, and to a lesser extent Punk and Lesnar are that. Takers loyal and HHH is family. The only ones Vince really has to worry about going off the reservation are Punk and Lesnar and as long as Brock gets his big money he seems to be ok most of the time. With those few he feels no need to push anyone else. Everyone else is replacable as long as he has a few. It all stems from Vince's incredible overconfidence in his abilities as a promoter right now.

Ortons a prime example. Once he was one of the golden boys. But now that he's become a liability he's been somewhat marginalized despite the years and money they invested in him even though they knew early on that he was trouble. Punks in that number spot for the full timers now so they don't have to worry about needing Randy like they used to. He's become a cog just like everyone else. Its his own fault but it is what it is.

Last time he got busted for a wellness violation in the middle of a major push in a program against Cena they let it slide because he was one of their golden boys. They don't do that for everone and now they aren't taking that risk on him.

Great points as always, it's true that Vince has had a greater deal of micro-management control over the last decade of pushes, Cena got himself over initially but in exchange for the top spot he allowed Vince to turn him into this corporate creation that was palatable to middle America after the reckless abandon and envelope pushing attitude era.

The other big push was Batista and at 36 he wasn't going to rock the boat, he had HHH in his ear and Vince positioning him as the #2 star, he had no reason to do anything but what he was told and he remains the only guy to avoid shovel breath's "Gotta get ma win back!" motto.

Orton and Punk have been the biggest risks, Orton more due to his demons, Punk because he's a hot headed maverick, but I do think the willingness to get behind Punk despite some missteps is a crack of light for the future, especially regarding how indie talent is viewed, and we are hearing that HHH is going back to oldschool methods for promos which I feel comes from the great stuff Punk, HHH and Cena did in summer 2011 when they didn't use scripts.

So I get where you are coming from for sure, but I think a lot of the business dip came from the ultra kiddie direction following the Benoit tragedy, I mean things did need to tone down after the attitude era as there was nowhere left to go, but they went too far the other way. What made things worse was that they kept on with too many PPV's and the business no longer had the popularity to support such over-saturation.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Lol, I doubt that. I'm sure they'd be back in time for next week's show.

Of course, we'd all be here moaning about how they are booking the Cena heel turn all wrong.

This is nice...

You just know the moment the camera went off Triple H Pedigreed her and took that belt.

 

[Slushy]

I always felt Batista was underrated. Not a great in-ring worker due to his hossness, but he excelled in everything. It sucks he left when he hit his peak. If it wasn't for his age, I think he would've remained the top guy instead of Cena.

By the way, I've began collecting Wrestlemania event programs. So far I have the ones from:

2
7
8
9
18
28

Does anybody have or know anybody willing to sell theirs? Ideally, I'd like to have all 29. Preferably unsigned.

 

[Pink Ranger]

This is nice...

You just know the moment the camera went off Triple H Pedigreed her and took that belt.

Actually, it was Cena who tried to pin Mae for that belt, but he was defeated. Later, Cena asserted that he "beat himself."