The Wrestling Thread Has More Hype Than WrestleMania XXIX - Part 91

[Dr. Evil]

 

[brainchild81]

It's a lost/lose situation no matter who wins. Cena wins we get another boring run of him as champion as a stale character. Rock wins, and then a part-timers rolls out beating the two top guys each twice, which would be ridiculous. Cena has to win, and at Wrestlemania, not Extreme Rules.

Cena should beat the Rock, then offer the Rock a handshake, then give him the Attitude Adjustment to initiate the heel turn.

I'd be ok w/that.

 

[Kaleb]

Im hoping the following happens

1. Taker destroys Punk at WM 29 and puts him out for a few months
2. during Cena vs Rock ,Cena gets frustated and restorts to cheating to pin the Rock (perhaps a chain hidden in his trousers ? knocks the Rock out)
3. Next night on Raw ,Cena conducts his first heel promo claiming how nobody can beat him how he is sick of doing everything for the fans , the next few months he goes through Ziggler,Kane,Bryan,Jericho.
4. Summerslam approaches and Punk makes his return to a huge crowd reaction.
5. Summerlslam Cena vs Punk (who is now a full on face) Punk is close to winning when Brock makes one of his random returns and takes out Punk setting up Brock vs Punk at Survivor Series
6. Survivor Series Punk vs Brock (with John Cena and Heyman)
7. Royal Rumble ppv and Punk enters the Rumble and wins it

Wrestlemania 30 CM Punk vs John Cena

 

[TX85]

I'd like #2(his World Life master lock chain would be great)/3/6(without Cena involvement)&7,Maybe #1 But not too sure about it and especially with him getting completely destroyed

 

[Kaleb]

I'd like #2(his World Life master lock chain would be great)/3/6(without Cena involvement)&7

Maybe #1 But not too sure about it and especially with him getting completely destroyed

You know honestly knowing that its his (Punks) fav wrestlemania match I could see them trying to copy the Bret vs Austin WM13 finish and have Punk ''pass out'' to Takers ''Hells Gates''. It would work perfectly as Taker gets his win and Punk looks just as strong dispite taking the ''loss''

JR:''Punk never tapped out, he never tapped out''

 

[TX85]

Would be a nice fresh way to end this match than Taker getting the clean win yet again as usual

 

[Metallo]

Great points as always, it's true that Vince has had a greater deal of micro-management control over the last decade of pushes, Cena got himself over initially but in exchange for the top spot he allowed Vince to turn him into this corporate creation that was palatable to middle America after the reckless abandon and envelope pushing attitude era.

Exactly. Cenas a company man. In some ways thats good but in some ways its been terrible. Good because he doesn't politick but bad because he doesn't speak up loudly enough when things are sh**. Cena got pushed too soon and didn't really have the goods to have that spot until years later. He had to know that. Even Flair used to talk about how lacking he was as a wrestler and Flair usually follows Vince's play to protect his own get out of jail free card/meal ticket.

Cenas their boy they tried to keep him happy and make their own movie star with their own lame movies. A movie star they could control this time. Its just another example of the companis manstream expansion and push to look legit.

Vince's big problem is trying to appeal to the mainstream too hard and in the wrong ways. Twitter, tout, all this other crap which he is focusing on too hard, etc. Social media is a great tool but it should be used to get the focus on the product not the main thing he wants people to watch for. His priorities here are wrong. What good is overhyping that stuff when the shows are crap? Once the product gets good and they really tap into what drives todays culture viewers will flock back. They can't artificially initiate it though.

The other big push was Batista and at 36 he wasn't going to rock the boat, he had HHH in his ear and Vince positioning him as the #2 star, he had no reason to do anything but what he was told and he remains the only guy to avoid shovel breath's "Gotta get ma win back!" motto.

Batistas big run was always on borrowed time between age and injury. He didn't really get good until the very end. I think WWE had to see that too. But Big Dave is another case of a big star leaving them when they were (over)depending on him. Batista let the reasons why he left be known too.

Orton and Punk have been the biggest risks, Orton more due to his demons, Punk because he's a hot headed maverick, but I do think the willingness to get behind Punk despite some missteps is a crack of light for the future, especially regarding how indie talent is viewed, and we are hearing that HHH is going back to oldschool methods for promos which I feel comes from the great stuff Punk, HHH and Cena did in summer 2011 when they didn't use scripts.

I think with Punk they really had no choice because main event talent was so thin and people in the company saw what they might potentially be losing with Punk leaving. The fact that Punk HAD to push it as far as he did shows Vince is out of touch with what great talent is. If people like HBK hadn't gone to bat for Punk years ago he may not have even gotten the chances he did. Vince likes to pigeonhole guys--see Christian.

I think most of the good creative pushes for change are coming from Triple H once again getting in the old mans ear. He has his ear and even someone like him sees how weak the shows are getting. Since he's not full time anymore thats got to matter to him even more.

But back to the stars thing...Lesnar was the last straw but it started before Lesnar. We have to look at things like Austin walking out, Savage leaving him and going to WCW, Rude and Luger both walking out on their handshake deals to go to Nitro VERY fast, Warrior no showing and/or demanding more money, Jarrett supposedly demanding more money, Slaughter asking for better pay, Hogan hijacking plans, The Kliq not doing business, Bret refusing to drop the belt to Shawn, and Ventura pushing for a union and wanting pay for his likeness/footage. It all affected Vinces views on how to handle talent. Most of that stuff I mentioned that those guys did HURT WWF and/or helped his competition (even if it was short term) but we don't really see any of that any more. None of the stars have that kind of leverage anymore for various reasons.

Not only because there are fewer places to work but because Vince has locked everyone down tighter and even midcarders/uppermidcarders like Rude and Angle don't bring as much buzz with them to new companies anymore because quite frankly they don't matter as much anymore. We'll probably never see a situation like Rick Rudes Raw/Nitro deal again. McMahon wants it that way. The only thing that even comes close was Kurt Angle signing with TNA and even that didn't happen as fast and only happened at all because Vince didn't want Kurt dying on HIM and his company.

But no compete clauses and all kinds of stuff are in place now so that stars can't go and take that WWE momentum with them. Then there's Vince giving new stars stupid names that he can own even though in the case of 2nd, 3rd, generation stars that name might make them more recognizable and even more popular. Its probably not just to make money off of but to make sure a star going to another company loses some of his momentum. He CAN make money of a name he owns like Michael McGuilicutty but with an awful name like that what are the chances someone is going to pay money for merchandise with that name on it in the first place? There are a lot of reasons Vince has done what he's done just so he can have more control. And in the end if these stars lower on the card "mean" less in WWE then its not going to hurt WWE as much or help out the competition as much when they leave and go somewhere else.

So I get where you are coming from for sure, but I think a lot of the business dip came from the ultra kiddie direction following the Benoit tragedy, I mean things did need to tone down after the attitude era as there was nowhere left to go, but they went too far the other way. What made things worse was that they kept on with too many PPV's and the business no longer had the popularity to support such over-saturation.

The generic blandness of the product is partly because he's made things more kiddie but also because he's trying to make things more appealing to the mainstream.

This turn was probably in the works before The Benoit Murders. Linda McMahon had probably been considering her senate run for a while. Maybe even before that. She'd even been setting up things in local and state education positions before she ran to help give herself some credibility. The McMahons want to be seen as more legit. Always have.

Benoit probably forced them to move up their timetable but I think they were considering going more PG for a while. Thats always were Vince has felt most comfortable because he wants to appeal to mainstream america and be seen as a legitimate entertainment company and not just a wrestling company. They probably wanted better deals with sponsors and merchandising parters so they could make even more money. They had real problems with some deals like that during the Attitude Era. I remember the stupid controversy wirth Al Snows toy and the toy head and even with advertisers during the height of the Attitude Eras raunchiness. If they wanted better deals there I'm sure they felt they had to go with a more family oriented product.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Im hoping the following happens

1. Taker destroys Punk at WM 29 and puts him out for a few months
2. during Cena vs Rock ,Cena gets frustated and restorts to cheating to pin the Rock (perhaps a chain hidden in his trousers ? knocks the Rock out)
3. Next night on Raw ,Cena conducts his first heel promo claiming how nobody can beat him how he is sick of doing everything for the fans , the next few months he goes through Ziggler,Kane,Bryan,Jericho.
4. Summerslam approaches and Punk makes his return to a huge crowd reaction.
5. Summerlslam Cena vs Punk (who is now a full on face) Punk is close to winning when Brock makes one of his random returns and takes out Punk setting up Brock vs Punk at Survivor Series
6. Survivor Series Punk vs Brock (with John Cena and Heyman)
7. Royal Rumble ppv and Punk enters the Rumble and wins it

Wrestlemania 30 CM Punk vs John Cena

You're missing the part where I win the lottery and then get hired to write for Dr. Who.

 

[Van Petrol]

Everytime I see this...

...I think of this...

 

[I'm Venom]

I 100% believe CM Punk is walking out of WrestleMania with that 1.

 

[Metallo]

Everytime I see this...

...I think of this...

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh...damn you. Now I won't be able to UNSEE IT.

I noticed Chase and Ackroyd used a PKE meter like that in The Family Guy Spies Like Us spoof episode and it made me LOL.

 

[Dark Sentinel]

I think I saw a bit of the beginnings of a heel turn for Cena..and there's actually a resemblance I see between Rock and Cena ("Rocky sucks!" "Cena sucks!")..I'm hoping Cena wins by cheating, that'd be a great way to do it.

 

[Anno_Domini]

So I'm reading the Saturday Morning Slam spoilers...and I see this:

Spoiler

3. Mark Henry defeated Daniel Bryan with the World's Strongest Slam

How are they gonna show Mark Henry's entrance when his theme isn't really appropriate for the children? Lol.

 

[TX85]

So who's getting special WM entrances this year?,I hope Rock comes out to his Hollywood Rock theme&video!..
[YT]nT2i_zg98fo[/YT]

I'm guessing Punk/Triple H&Cena will get the special entrance treatments though!

 

[Dr. Evil]

Spoiler

WWE will tape this week's episode of WWE SmackDown from the GIANT Center in Hershey, Pennsylvania. Here are the full results.

* The Rock kicks off SmackDown and gets a massive pop from the crowd. Rock tells a story about Hershey from when he was younger and cuts a promo on John Cena. He's interrupted by John Laurinaitis. Rock asks who the hell Laurinaitis is. Laurinaitis says Teddy Long gave him permission to come out.

Laurinaitis says John Cena is the reason he was fired and he wants to be in Rock's corner at WrestleMania. Rock says we'll let the people decide and they boo. Rock says he and Laurinaitis should send Cena a message together but they need a handshake first. Rock lays Laurinaitis out with a spinebuster and a People's Elbow. Rock pulls a giant Hershey bar from under the ring, signs it and gives it to kids in the crowd.

* Chris Jericho defeats Wade Barrett. Jericho speaks after the match and says he would love to face the Intercontinental Champion at WrestleMania but guesses he will face Fandango instead. The Fandango silhouette drops down on the stage. Jericho picks on Fandango's name. Fandango comes out, walks to the ring but turns around and leaves.

* While they set up for the weight lifting competition, an interview from earlier in the day with Paul Heyman talking to Matt Striker about Brock Lesnar vs. Triple H is shown.

* Booker T, Teddy Long, Ryback and Mark Henry come out for the weight lifting challenge. Ryback is up first. Henry and Ryback get the same score. Booker reminds them of a no-contact policy. Henry drops the weight bar across Ryback's neck and Ryback rolls around choking.

* Dolph Ziggler, Big E Langston and AJ Lee vs. Kane, Daniel Bryan and Kaitlyn is up next in mixed-tag action. Kane gives the boot to Big E and Kaitlyn pins AJ for the win.

* The Shield cut a promo on the big screen.

* Jack Swagger and The Great Khali wrestle in what was said to be a very bad match. They both get counted out. Swagger puts the Patriot Lock on Hornswoggle when Ricardo Rodriguez comes out and tells Swagger to come and get him. Alberto Del Rio sneaks in the ring and puts the armbreaker on Zeb Colter. Del Rio holds Zeb and Ricardo hits him with the crutch. Swagger comes back and Del Rio hits him.

* Backstage interview with Sheamus, Randy Orton and Big Show.

* They show Arnold Schwarzenegger's tweet talking about inducting Bruno Sammartino.

* Cody Rhodes, Damien Sandow and Antonio Cesaro vs. Sheamus, Big Show and Randy Orton is up next. Orton, Show and Sheamus get the win. The Shield appears but get chased into the crowd. Orton, Show and Sheamus beat them up bad and pose at the top of the stairs.

 

[ImWithTeamConan]

Im hoping the following happens

1. Taker destroys Punk at WM 29 and puts him out for a few months
2. during Cena vs Rock ,Cena gets frustated and restorts to cheating to pin the Rock (perhaps a chain hidden in his trousers ? knocks the Rock out)
3. Next night on Raw ,Cena conducts his first heel promo claiming how nobody can beat him how he is sick of doing everything for the fans , the next few months he goes through Ziggler,Kane,Bryan,Jericho.
4. Summerslam approaches and Punk makes his return to a huge crowd reaction.
5. Summerlslam Cena vs Punk (who is now a full on face) Punk is close to winning when Brock makes one of his random returns and takes out Punk setting up Brock vs Punk at Survivor Series
6. Survivor Series Punk vs Brock (with John Cena and Heyman)
7. Royal Rumble ppv and Punk enters the Rumble and wins it

Wrestlemania 30 CM Punk vs John Cena

BOOM.

Not that hard, creative team.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Im hoping the following happens

1. Taker destroys Punk at WM 29 and puts him out for a few months
2. during Cena vs Rock ,Cena gets frustated and restorts to cheating to pin the Rock (perhaps a chain hidden in his trousers ? knocks the Rock out)
3. Next night on Raw ,Cena conducts his first heel promo claiming how nobody can beat him how he is sick of doing everything for the fans , the next few months he goes through Ziggler,Kane,Bryan,Jericho.
4. Summerslam approaches and Punk makes his return to a huge crowd reaction.
5. Summerlslam Cena vs Punk (who is now a full on face) Punk is close to winning when Brock makes one of his random returns and takes out Punk setting up Brock vs Punk at Survivor Series
6. Survivor Series Punk vs Brock (with John Cena and Heyman)
7. Royal Rumble ppv and Punk enters the Rumble and wins it

Wrestlemania 30 CM Punk vs John Cena

Vince McMahon would go in a violent rage over that idea.

 

[SpideyFan866]

So I'm reading the Saturday Morning Slam spoilers...and I see this:

Spoiler

3. Mark Henry defeated Daniel Bryan with the World's Strongest Slam

How are they gonna show Mark Henry's entrance when his theme isn't really appropriate for the children? Lol.

Since its tape, odds are they won't show his entrance and for the bit where they show him standing in the ring, edit it to be on the part of the song with no curse words.

 

[I'm Venom]

I think I saw a bit of the beginnings of a heel turn for Cena..and there's actually a resemblance I see between Rock and Cena ("Rocky sucks!" "Cena sucks!")..I'm hoping Cena wins by cheating, that'd be a great way to do it.

That's what I just thought of as I'm finishing watching WrestleMania X-7, and quoting commentary from Mania X-7, "What won't Austin do to win?" Replace Austin with Cena, and it would be the perfect quote for Mania this year for Cole. Near the end of the match, have the referee get knocked out and then Cena get a chair and hit Rock a bunch of times. All the stars align for it.

 

[bullets]

I’ve never been this convinced that Cena might turn heel. There’s a chain of events leading back to 2011 that have built to this point with that character where it would be entirely natural for him to turn. That’s never been true before. Has Cena ever come across so arrogant and desperate? I just don’t know if the WWE can pull the trigger when it comes time.

Cena turning heel would be a natural progression for this storyline. Instead it's a tease to get people invested in the match. However Johnny Ace returning to Smackdown could mean something. I suspect Laryngitis will help Cena cheat to win at Wrestlemania. It's highly doubtful though.

just watched the rock cena segment, and I know the Rock has alot of detractors on here but WOW that was good, that first answer especially, could feel the Rocks intensity

edit: Cenas second answer was actually really good too, really quite heelish, didnt like his other bits though

It seems like Rock took Punk's advice and started to be more serious in promos. He's been really good since his return in January. I thought his responses were great last night. I'm sure Cena will take up a notch next week and it will be interesing to see that.

They really need to do something because I forgot that Wrestlemania is two Sundays from now, and it doesn't even feel special. Even my friends who were thinking about pitching in "for da Rock" forgot too. They were all, "Oh yeah. How much is it again?" We checked to see, and there is no reason to pay $70 for it. They're really not doing well on The Road to Wrestlemania this year, and it's been the worse that I can remember since probably back in 95. They're really testing their audience with the price. I love The Rock, Punk, and Undertaker, but damn paying for that.

I'd have to be really excited about Mania and even then 70 dollars is still pushing it. I just can't afford it and would only consider the other ppvs if they were a lot cheaper. Although I usually order the Royal Rumble and Wrestlemania ever year. I don't feel so bad skipping this one until it hits dvd/blu ray.

I bought the Elimination Chamber blu ray last week. I thought the Punk vs Rock match was much better than the previous encounter. It was a decent show overall.

 

[nite-owl]

Bret had fun once and he hated it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Grumpy Bret lol.

 

[UnionJack]

Poor Bret he never really seems into it these days.
Think he misses being in the ring and never finishing his career like he wanted.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Something shocking needs to happen at this year's WrestleMania, the matches projected are the weakest in years.

I'll be shocked it's worse than 2 years ago. That was, top-to-bottom, the most forgettable WM ever.

.

Foley: INCREDIBLE!!!

Rock: GOTTA SELL THE PPV!!

Dusty: HITTIN' HIM WIT DA BIG BLIVIT!!

Bret: Did I pay the electric bill?

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

Ok am I the only one who had a laughing fit when they forced bret to compare rock/cena to bret/hbk.

Seriously they wish.