Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 2

[Dark Raven]

I wish this thread were just renamed to the Zendaya is Michelle thread. That's all we know at the moment. Anything else beyond that is pure speculation or wishful thinking.

 

[Web-Head]

I wish this thread were just renamed to the Zendaya is Michelle thread. That's all we know at the moment. Anything else beyond that is pure speculation or wishful thinking.

Send a PM to a mod and they'll change it

 

[ehh]

Well whoever Zendaya is playing, we can assume it's going to involve some sort of twist, MJ or not.

 

[MadVillainy]

At this point if she is playing MJ, it's going to be a STID-Khan, Spectre-Blofeld, TDKR-Talia type thing and it's just going to take me out of the movie. Won't ruin it by any stretch of the imagination, but it's just going to be annoying.

Does anyone like that? An actor constantly denying they're playing someone that they're obviously playing, then they do the obvious reveal in the movie?

 

[ehh]

"Face it tiger... my name... is MARY JANE."

 

[Dark Raven]

Her name will be revealed to be Talia Khan.

 

[Talion]

t:

 

[ehh]

"I'm not playing Mary Jane, it's John Harrison. I mean Michelle. Michelle Harrison."

lol IDK, she might be MJ, or she might not be. Ehh.

 

[The Infernal]

"Face it tiger... my name... is MARY JANE."

If they're pulling the same trick then they won't have learned from the fallout of the Khan debacle. Most involved seemed to agree it was a bad idea to keep denying the truth and build up peoples expectations for something else and just irritate those who were still certain it was Khan.

 

[Dark Raven]

If they're pulling the same trick then they won't have learned from the fallout of the Khan debacle. Most involved seemed to agree it was a bad idea to keep denying the truth and build up peoples expectations for something else and just irritate those who were still certain it was Khan.

As I said in the other thread, even if there is a twist and it turns out at the end of the movie she is MJ, it will be wholly unsatisfying, because she's nothing like MJ. And if her name isn't even Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson, it's not going to be a clever twist. I don't want to see her becoming the character. Who really wants MJ Begins?

Her character and personality isn't anything like Mary Jane's, let alone her appearance. Even if she isn't quite that person yet, the fact that she has to go through a character arc to become her is completely contrary to MJ. If anything, MJ's character arc is in the opposite direction with her being the superficial and popular party girl on first appearance who is revealed to be much deeper than she initially appears.

If she is awkward and bookish and dry but then becomes the popular party girl, then afterwards is she going to go through yet another arc to show that she's not just the superficial love interest but actually has other qualities (like being awkward and bookish and dry)?

 

[The Infernal]

Yeah. I'm pretty much on the same page. The characterisation is what matters most.

Who really wants MJ Begins?

Christina Nolan?

 

[KalvinEllis]

The twist about Khan or Talia was integral part of their movie's plot. Talia hid her identity to gain Bruce's trust and used Bane to destroy Gotham, Khan hid his because he wanted vengeance for his crew, why try to hide the identity of a teenage girl in a highschool movie? She just thinks "Mary Jane" is a stupid name? Trying to play coy with this character makes no sense to me.

 

[Dark Raven]

It might not even be Mary Jane. If her name is Michelle Johnson, then her initials would spell out MJ. But then after she says "call me MJ", all of Peter's friends can also join in "call me NL", "call me FT", "call me BB", "call me LA" etc to which Peter can respond "oh well, call me PP then."

 

[Havok83]

I wish this thread were just renamed to the Zendaya is Michelle thread. That's all we know at the moment. Anything else beyond that is pure speculation or wishful thinking.

IA and I can't believe the mods have kept it as such for so long, prolonging the unnecessary confusion

 

[The Infernal]

Probably just kept that way in the absence of any concrete info about her role at all.

 

[Dark Raven]

And there's no concrete info that she's Mary Jane either. The only concrete info we have is that she's Michelle.

 

[X Knight]

As I said in the other thread, even if there is a twist and it turns out at the end of the movie she is MJ, it will be wholly unsatisfying, because she's nothing like MJ. And if her name isn't even Mary Jane but Michelle Johnson, it's not going to be a clever twist. I don't want to see her becoming the character. Who really wants MJ Begins?

Her character and personality isn't anything like Mary Jane's, let alone her appearance. Even if she isn't quite that person yet, the fact that she has to go through a character arc to become her is completely contrary to MJ. If anything, MJ's character arc is in the opposite direction with her being the superficial and popular party girl on first appearance who is revealed to be much deeper than she initially appears.

If she is awkward and bookish and dry but then becomes the popular party girl, then afterwards is she going to go through yet another arc to show that she's not just the superficial love interest but actually has other qualities (like being awkward and bookish and dry)?

bingo!! nailed it!! spot on!! meow!!

 

[ehh]

The twist about Khan or Talia was integral part of their movie's plot. Talia hid her identity to gain Bruce's trust and used Bane to destroy Gotham, Khan hid his because he wanted vengeance for his crew, why try to hide the identity of a teenage girl in a highschool movie? She just thinks "Mary Jane" is a stupid name? Trying to play coy with this character makes no sense to me.

If they went that route, a better comparison would be Ms. Moneypenny in Skyfall. Or Robin in TDKR I guess.

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

Doesnt it get old saying the same things over and over?

 

[ehh]

Doesnt it get old saying the same things over and over?

Yesh, Mish Moneypenny.

 

[X Knight]

I watched Dr. Strange last weekend. Now, I'm not overly familiar with the character, other than the basics. I'm sure there were changes and alterations to his character and origin story.

but, the overall basic premise of the character was still there. Rich, arrogant, selfish jerk doctor has traumatic accident which upends his world and sets him on a course to discover the mystic arts and become a better person in the process.

Strange doesn't start out as a funny stand up comic who discovers his life purpose as a doctor, then becomes selfish and arrogant, then gets into the accident, etc.

No. that doesn't happen. cuz that's not the basic story arc of the character.

Same with the visual identity. In terms of costume and appearance, he looked like Dr. Strange from the comics. He wasn't clean shaven nor did he sport a neon green Mohawk or a yellow cloak. No, he looked like Dr. Strange.

Same with Arrow and Flash. I have been finally getting around to watching their tv shows. Again, I'm not overly familiar with the characters and I am aware there are changes from the comics.

But, overall, the basic premises of the characters are intact.

Oliver Queen doesn't start out as a super sweet, hard working, productive rich kid who gets stranded on the island and then comes back a hardened vigilante bad ass. That's not Oliver Queen. That's not his story arc. Even though the show and comics differ, the basic premise of Oliver Queen is that he is a spoiled, irresponsible rich kid who gets stranded on an island which changes him into a hardened vigilante and helps him discover his "purpose."

Likewise, Oliver Queen in the show doesn't don a red and blue costume as Arrow. Or pink and yellow. No, he retains the green color scheme.

There will always be changes to these characters in these adaptations. But these characters have basic core traits, story arcs, and visual identities that define our recognition of these characters.

Deviate too much from those core tenets and they become pretty much different characters entirely.

 

[Dark Raven]

I watched Dr. Strange last weekend. Now, I'm not overly familiar with the character, other than the basics. I'm sure there were changes and alterations to his character and origin story.

but, the overall basic premise of the character was still there. Rich, arrogant, selfish jerk doctor has traumatic accident which upends his world and sets him on a course to discover the mystic arts and become a better person in the process.

Strange doesn't start out as a funny stand up comic who discovers his life purpose as a doctor, then becomes selfish and arrogant, then gets into the accident, etc.

No. that doesn't happen. cuz that's not the basic story arc of the character.

Same with the visual identity. In terms of costume and appearance, he looked like Dr. Strange from the comics. He wasn't clean shaven nor did he sport a neon green Mohawk or a yellow cloak. No, he looked like Dr. Strange.

Same with Arrow and Flash. I have been finally getting around to watching their tv shows. Again, I'm not overly familiar with the characters and I am aware there are changes from the comics.

But, overall, the basic premises of the characters are intact.

Oliver Queen doesn't start out as a super sweet, hard working, productive rich kid who gets stranded on the island and then comes back a hardened vigilante bad ass. That's not Oliver Queen. That's not his story arc. Even though the show and comics differ, the basic premise of Oliver Queen is that he is a spoiled, irresponsible rich kid who gets stranded on an island which changes him into a hardened vigilante and helps him discover his "purpose."

Likewise, Oliver Queen in the show doesn't don a red and blue costume as Arrow. Or pink and yellow. No, he retains the green color scheme.

There will always be changes to these characters in these adaptations. But these characters have basic core traits, story arcs, and visual identities that define our recognition of these characters.

Deviate too much from those core tenets and they become pretty much different characters entirely.

This. But your Oliver Queen analogy doesn't take it far enough. He doesn't start off as a hardened vigilante, go through an arc to make him a spoiled and irresponsible rich kid and then go through yet another arc on the island to turn him back into a hardened vigilante with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

And that's what would happen with Michelle or MJ. She is awkward, dry, reserved but goes through an arc so that she becomes the fun-loving and extroverted party girl at the end of the movie, but then she has to go through another arc so that we (and Peter especially) see she's not just the flighty and superficial party girl?

It's like they start off years ago in the place we already know them now in the present, go through an arc to become the person we only meet them as at the beginning of the traditional arc from the comics, but then go through yet another arc to become the person they're supposed to be (who is the person we already knew them as now anyway). How contrived is that?

It's not a 180 degree arc but a 360 degree arc. Or maybe they haven't changed at all if they're just ending up back in the same place they started.

 

[X Knight]

This. But your Oliver Queen analogy doesn't take it far enough. He doesn't start off as a hardened vigilante, go through an arc to make him a spoiled and irresponsible rich kid and then go through yet another arc on the island to turn him back into a hardened vigilante with the weight of the world on his shoulders.

And that's what would happen with Michelle or MJ. She is awkward, dry, reserved but goes through an arc so that she becomes the fun-loving and extroverted party girl at the end of the movie, but then she has to go through another arc so that we (and Peter especially) see she's not just the flighty and superficial party girl?

It's like they start off years ago in the place we already know them now in the present, go through an arc to become the person we only meet them as at the beginning of the traditional arc from the comics, but then go through yet another arc to become the person they're supposed to be (who is the person we already knew them as now anyway). How contrived is that?

It's not a 180 degree arc but a 360 degree arc. Or maybe they haven't changed at all if they're just ending up back in the same place they started.

agreed. it's very contrived and convoluted.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

1. If she's MJ, it's a cop-out and will feel forced and contrived. Especially, since both "Star Trek Into Darkness" and "Spectre" pulled the same crap. (Is Benedict Cumberbatch Khan? Is Christoph Waltz Blofeld?)

2. The secrecy, deception and chicanery of hiding who she really is is stupid too. But since reports are now that she is simply Michelle and not Mary Jane Watson as what was reported on the call sheet, I think the gossip columnists owe the Internet a big apology if she is in truth just Michelle.

3. The other thing I hate about this "is she or isn't she" is that it brought out the worse in fans. Not so much here, but on Facebook and elsewhere. People were called "racists" for no good reason and those who wanted a traditional MJ (including myself) were treated unfairly too.

Lastly, if she is MJ but doesn't feel like MJ, dress like MJ or they change a lot of who MJ is (the same goes for Sally, Liz, Ned and Flash) then this movie is going to have a hard time keeping fans or getting the respect it wants regardless of how diverse it wants to be or attempting to be.

 

[ehh]

I think there is a twist to her character, but I don't think it's MJ.