Homecoming The Zendaya is possibly someone, maybe thread - Part 4

I don't think we're getting Mary Jane. I'd really like to, don't get me wrong, but it seems unlikely we have a love triangle with two "MJ" characters.
 
I don't think we're getting Mary Jane. I'd really like to, don't get me wrong, but it seems unlikely we have a love triangle with two "MJ" characters.
The NBA had Michael Jordan and Magiv Johnson playing at the same time while Michael Jackso hit the charts. The world is certainly big enough for multiple MJs to coexist
 
I don't think we're getting Mary Jane. I'd really like to, don't get me wrong, but it seems unlikely we have a love triangle with two "MJ" characters.

Feige confirmed that she is not "Mary Jane Watson". It was meant as a nod to the comics, not that they were redoing the character.
 
The NBA had Michael Jordan and Magiv Johnson playing at the same time while Michael Jackso hit the charts. The world is certainly big enough for multiple MJs to coexist

They also used the MJ joke in the last NBA commercial they did.

Not sure what to make of this. Relating to teasing MJ in the new series, what happened to the scenes they were shooting of Spidey rescuing all those redheads?
 
Feige confirmed that she is not "Mary Jane Watson". It was meant as a nod to the comics, not that they were redoing the character.

I meant as an additional character.

They also used the MJ joke in the last NBA commercial they did.

Not sure what to make of this. Relating to teasing MJ in the new series, what happened to the scenes they were shooting of Spidey rescuing all those redheads?

I felt that was more of a joke about Peter confusing a bald black guy with being Michael Jordan when it was actually Magic Johnson--so his faux pas went unnoticed.

Good point about the redheads scene, who knows.

It's not that I wouldn't love to be proven wrong, it just seems unlikely to me that a studio would have two major characters with the same nickname. And to the above guy's comment, of course it could happen in real life. Writers pick and choose things in fiction and that seems a little weird to me.
 
so the redhead rescue scene was cut?

if I recall, too, that girl was also wearing a silver dress Mary Jane wore in the comics. wasn't that the case?
 
so the redhead rescue scene was cut?

if I recall, too, that girl was also wearing a silver dress Mary Jane wore in the comics. wasn't that the case?

There was certainly a resemblance to a cover of some ASM issues in the #60s (don't care to look it up at the moment). The scene did not appear in the film.
 
There was certainly a resemblance to a cover of some ASM issues in the #60s (don't care to look it up at the moment). The scene did not appear in the film.

ah, thanks.

maybe they originally intended to have several nods to MJ, including the redhead rescue and Michelle's MJ line, but the only one that made the final cut was the Michelle line.

who knows......
 
To me, it felt like Michelle was supposed to be aloof and sarcastic in an endearing way, but it didn't come across the way at all for me. It made her just seem like she had a really unlikeable, repulsive personality.

None of her lines drew any laughs in my screening and by the end, I was genuinely confused as to why she seemed so well liked amongst the trivia team kids after she was announced to be the new captain.
 
I honestly don't believe that Feige and the others are backtracking on anything. If they had wanted to do the actual Mary Jane, they would have named the character Mary Jane. They did so with Flash. They're kings of the commercial movie world and I don't think the rage of fanboys means much to them.

I believe that they always intended Michelle to be an original character taking Mary Jane's place, with a hype inducing nickname.

I do think that they goofed up big time, but with honest intentions.
 
The NBA had Michael Jordan and Magiv Johnson playing at the same time while Michael Jackso hit the charts. The world is certainly big enough for multiple MJs to coexist

Not exactly an apt comparison. One had no control over multiple MJs whereas the other very much had a choice to introduce comic MJ and they chose not, instead creating a new character with the intials MJ. That isn't to say it would be impossible to introduce comic MJ but I think if they wanted Mary Jane in the MCU, they wouldn't have taken this route.
 
I honestly don't believe that Feige and the others are backtracking on anything. If they had wanted to do the actual Mary Jane, they would have named the character Mary Jane. They did so with Flash. They're kings of the commercial movie world and I don't think the rage of fanboys means much to them.

I believe that they always intended Michelle to be an original character taking Mary Jane's place, with a hype inducing nickname.

I do think that they goofed up big time, but with honest intentions.

there are apparently reports over sony and marvel conflicting on one thing.. and if that's true.. my bet it's MJ

there was really no reason to not name her Mary Jane if they brought in Flash for a third time... yeah.. there's been 3 flashes thus far ... and only 1 mj.. that's kinda crazy

3 Peter Parkers
3 Aunt Mays
3 Flash Thompsons

2 Uncle Bens
2 Harry Osborns
2 Norman Osborns
2 Gwen Stacy's
2 Kurt Connors
2 Betty Brant's

1 Mary Jane
1 J Jonah Jameson
1 Joe Robertson
1 Liz Allen
1 Ned Leeds (if we really want to call him ned *cough cough Ganke*
1 Richard Parker
1 Mary Parker

there's alot of "one time only" pretty massively important characters absent in most films
 
I didn't have any issues with Michelle. The character was good for a couple of laughs and that's about it. She was not integral to the story in this movie--just kinda there but the whole MJ line at the end felt forced. I'm still unsure as to why they are avoiding a classic take on Mary Jane. Feige says Michelle is NOT Mary Jane but the MJ line is supposed to be some kind of a reference as to how meaningful that relationship is/was...if I'm understanding him correctly. Well, if it is so meaningful, why not just give us the real deal instead of this pseudo nonsense.

I could potentially see how Michelle can become something of an amalgamation of MJ where she retains certain traits that are similar to the character. And that's ok, I guess, since they're essentially doing that in one way or another with the rest of the supporting cast. It's not really a surprise since Marvel has done this with many characters, even gone to lengths to completely change up certain characters to the point where they are unrecognizable to their comic counterparts. Amalgamated characters can be found in Raimi's versions too. I dunno. I just think with such an important character like Mary Jane--one who hasn't really been shown in any movie in a classic take, you'd think Marvel would jump at the chance.
 
It seems obvious what they're going for and where this is heading.

There won't be a "Mary Jane" in this universe, as we know her -- meaning a white, red-headed bombshell named Mary Jane Watson who becomes Peter's ultimate love -- because the original trilogy was heavily focused around a pseudo-version of this MJ. They also don't want to rehash the Gwen Stacy high school romance and story arc, because that was just done (and done pretty well in spite of those films' shortcomings) in the very recent TASM series.

Giving Michelle the "MJ" tag seems to be nothing but fan service, meant to indicate that she will become Peter Parker's "ultimate love" in this new series of films a la MJ in the comics, whilst still being a "new" character that shares virtually nothing in common with the "real" MJ from comic book lore...if that makes any sense. I imagine they'll eventually make her hair more red and make her look less plain eventually.


Either way, it just seems kind of pointless to me. Either commit to bringing the real MJ into the universe (which could still have been plenty different from what Raimi did with the character), or allow Michelle to be a new, original character with her own individual character traits as a new love interest for Peter. With all of the other significant changes to Spidey's supporting characters/universe (and Spidey himself) in Homecoming, I don't think anyone would have been up in arms about Spidey having a new love interest with no connections to the comic book cannon.
 
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To me, it felt like Michelle was supposed to be aloof and sarcastic in an endearing way, but it didn't come across the way at all for me. It made her just seem like she had a really unlikeable, repulsive personality.

None of her lines drew any laughs in my screening and by the end, I was genuinely confused as to why she seemed so well liked amongst the trivia team kids after she was announced to be the new captain.
To me she seemed like a contrarian that enjoyed being abrasive and an outsider but wanted to have friends and be included....which doesn't make since. Her entire existence in this movie was to provide oddball comedy that wasn't funny. Hannibal Burress is oddball funny. Then that MJ line at the end was just super eyeroll for no reason whatsoever for it to be included.
 
To me she seemed like a contrarian that enjoyed being abrasive and an outsider but wanted to have friends and be included....which doesn't make since. Her entire existence in this movie was to provide oddball comedy that wasn't funny. Hannibal Burress is oddball funny. Then that MJ line at the end was just super eyeroll for no reason whatsoever for it to be included.

That is exactly how it felt when that line was delivered...eyerolling.
 
Eh, it's pretty obvious why that line was included and I thought it was well done. It not only signifies that Michelle is the MJ of this universe but it was a full circle moment of sorts for the character acknowledging that these peers she spends much of her time with are her friends. She's obviously not the most open teen of the bunch so that was a big moment for her, one that sets her up for a more meaningful role in the sequel.
 
I'm sure they thought fans would like the nod, but it seems like 90% of people hated it. It was unnecessary and Michelle was fine on her own without that.
 
Eh, it's pretty obvious why that line was included and I thought it was well done. It not only signifies that Michelle is the MJ of this universe but it was a full circle moment of sorts for the character acknowledging that these peers she spends much of her time with are her friends. She's obviously not the most open teen of the bunch so that was a big moment for her, one that sets her up for a more meaningful role in the sequel.

:barf::barf::barf::barf::barf:
 
I'm sure they thought fans would like the nod, but it seems like 90% of people hated it. It was unnecessary and Michelle was fine on her own without that.

i agree... they tried to please everyone.. and instead kinda just made things worse.
 
That reveal had an actual backlash; http://screenrant.com/iron-man-3-mandarin-explained/

Not some minor grumbling on message boards.

And the backtrack, such as it was, was a *bad idea*. They had it right the first time.

( Also, those expecting some awesome robed-and-ringed Mandarin are in for a disappointment, seeing as whoever this "real" Mandarin is, he apparently wasn't capable of doing anything until Killian was safely dead and AIM largely/entirely disbaned. And even then, he. . . kidnapped an actor from prison. Woopie. )
 
I'm sure they thought fans would like the nod, but it seems like 90% of people hated it. It was unnecessary and Michelle was fine on her own without that.


That's pretty much sums up my thoughts on the matter.

As many fans have noted, it's somewhat comparable to the John Blake reveal in TDKR, as these name-drops were placed at the tail-end of each film and involve film characters who weren't exact mirrors of their supposed comic book counterparts. However, I'd say that this "MJ" reveal is essentially the inverse of the "Robin John Blake" and it's much less impactful, as it currently stands.

In the case of TDKR, it can at least be said the film itself took the time to build up the John Blake character as someone who idolized Batman, related to Bruce Wayne, and believed in his mission. Bruce was also shown to have taken an interest in Blake and trusted him enough to "let him in" to his world/mission and teach him whatever he could in a short span of time. By the end, after realizing he could no longer operate within the "shackles" of the police force, he was already on the path to become a vigilante when Batman chose to leave him with the necessary tools to take up his mantle. So while not being a complete mirror of the Robin from comic book canon, he was at least shown to be a Robin-like character in more ways than one.

Revealing Blake's true name to be "Robin" in the end was obviously a wink and a nod to the fans in a way, but it was certainly more than that. It drove home the the idea of what Blake represented to Bruce/Batman in the film (orphan, sidekick, etc) and what he was destined to become (heir to the mantle, future protector of Gotham) -- which is obviously the "Robin" connection. This also marked the absolute end to that series of films. And while the name-drop wasn't something that was even necessary in this case, it sort of served as the ultimate "payoff" in terms of how it related to the theme of the Batman legacy continuing on.

In the case of Michelle, she was a bit player in Homecoming. There was nothing in the film that linked her to the MJ of comic book lore on the surface or through her character traits (quite the opposite in many ways), or even in terms of how she fit into the film thematically. Therefore, it didn't really provide any kind of immediate "payoff", which is why it comes off as little more than fan service or an "Easter egg". It's basically just a little tease of what might come later and how she may ultimately fit into the grand scheme of things down the road. (It kind of got an "eyeroll" from me instead of a "Hell yeah!")

So it's obviously not this egregious moment that was in any way detrimental to the film, but it also didn't really add to anything that was presented in the film, which is why I and others have said it felt relatively pointless or unnecessary. It doesn't help that it's likely going to be a few years before we get any kind of payoff to this moment in Homecoming, but I'm sure they'll eventually take this in an interesting and (hopefully) worthwhile direction when all is said and done.
 
Unless you think Feige visits fan forums, it's pretty silly, imo, to think they backed out of making her Mary Jane because of negative reaction to a leak. It may sound nice to think fanboys/girls have that much influence but I'm pretty sure they knew any such backlash would have minimal effect on the film's success.



She has the MJ initials so she's already part Mary Jane in a way and it's likely that she'll turn out to be the equivalent of Mary Jane in the MCU. The odds of "real Mary Jane" showing up are slim...very slim, imo.

I do think Kevin Feige and Marvel try to accommodate fans wishes when the majority of fans are unhappy with a certain decision they have made. This is evident in them making the "All Hail the King" short that fixed Killian being the Mandarin. If you think Marvel had planned that short all along that is your right, but I think most people would agree it was in reaction to fans outcry about what they did to the Mandarin character.

As for Michelle being MJ and therefore being part Mary Jane it is entirely possible. However, I don't think it is a given, and I would prefer she not be so we can have another character play a more comic accurate Mary Jane in the future. This is not to suggest I don't like Michelle, because I do but if they are not going to evolve her into Mary Jane then we should at least be hoping Michelle is not Mary Jane's replacement as an Amalgamation of characters that includes Mary Jane. Somebody really needs to ask Kevin Feige if Mary Jane will appear in a future movie. However, until then I am going to keep the hope. At least that is how I see it.

Surfer
 
I find it interesting that despite Kevin Feige trying to clarify things with the whole "Michelle is not Mary Jane" thing, that we still don't know if Mary Jane has been replaced by Michelle's character or if Michelle is not intended as a replacement and Mary Jane will appear in a sequel. So, I see a lot of Fans divided on what they think Kevin meant and what they think it means for the future of Mary Jane in the MCU. Because of this I decided to create a poll to see how many Fans with the information we have been given believe Michelle is Mary Jane's replacement and how many Fans feel she is not and feel she will appear in a sequel. It obviously will not effect what they are planning one way or the other, but I am curious to see if more people interpret it one way or the other.

Surfer
 
I do think Kevin Feige and Marvel try to accommodate fans wishes when the majority of fans are unhappy with a certain decision they have made. This is evident in them making the "All Hail the King" short that fixed Killian being the Mandarin. If you think Marvel had planned that short all along that is your right, but I think most people would agree it was in reaction to fans outcry about what they did to the Mandarin character.

As for Michelle being MJ and therefore being part Mary Jane it is entirely possible. However, I don't think it is a given, and I would prefer she not be so we can have another character play a more comic accurate Mary Jane in the future. This is not to suggest I don't like Michelle, because I do but if they are not going to evolve her into Mary Jane then we should at least be hoping Michelle is not Mary Jane's replacement as an Amalgamation of characters that includes Mary Jane. Somebody really needs to ask Kevin Feige if Mary Jane will appear in a future movie. However, until then I am going to keep the hope. At least that is how I see it.

Surfer

I'm not hoping for that because I don't need to see "real MJ" onscreen. I understand why others do but I'm more interested in seeing more of Michelle and her dynamic with Peter.

People keep bringing up the Mandarin controversy but it's really not a good comparison at all. There is no real reason to believe Marvel/Feige were just so preoccupied with fan reaction or trying to please everyone with this MJ twist. If they wanted to be the least controversial, they would have just cast a more comic accurate MJ, as most people would have accepted that. But they tried something different, which tells me that they weren't so concerned with those who may object. That's how I see it anyway.
 

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