Venom has to be in Spiderman3

[Hunter Rider]

Well I would like to see a secondary villain such as Lizard, Scorpion, Electro, Sandman etc However I do not want to see Venom in 3. I am not a huge Venom fan, but I expect him to be in the movies sooner or later. IMO Venom needs a good set up movie which should be 4 so he can appear in 5. Venom shouldn't be in 3 aswell as the Goblin. What's the point of throwing out all the big guns straight away? I think too many people are eager to see Venom in a movie that they are willing to not give the character the sole villain role, which I think is a mistake. He should be the sole villain and have it concentrate on him and not to have to fight for time with the Goblin. Sort out the whole Goblin legacy in 3 and then move onto Symbiotes in 4.

DITTO

 

[OtepApe]

^ Lizard can carry his own movie.

I'm not saying he can't but if he is to be in 3 then it's pretty sure that it'll be with Harry as The Goblin and the main focus will go on Harry, therefore leaving Lizard as a secondary villain.

 

[OtepApe]

Thats a very good point,I just think you could introduce the black suit during 3 as spidey is battling GG2 and have him lose it during the movie and it end up on brock,the last shot of the movie could be eddie watching peter and then a close up to his face and it becomes venom.btw This is not a story just a way they could use 3 to set up Venom as the lead villain in 4 and then venom and carnage in 5.My choice for secondary villain would be either scorpion,sandman or hydro but i'm not very keen on the lizard

Well yeah that's a way but I would personally like to see other villains aswell. They can't please everyone but let's have a few secondary villains and not just have the big 3 (Goblin, Venom and Ock). I just think it's best to leave Venom off for 3 because everything will become too convuluted and with various other elements on the story, it'll make for a crowded movie.

Maybe they can introduce the Eddie character and just show Spidey getting one up on him in 3. Then 4, Spidey humilates him some more, slowly building it up and not rushing it. Spidey gets the black suit and fights a villain whoever it may be. Then at the end Spidey rejects the suit but Brock is there on a story to discredit Spidey but gets the suit, as the cliffhanger show Eddie transform into venom. Then five, we can show someone stalikgn Peter Parker, making his life miserable. Slowly tormenting him and driving him crazy with anger and then the big fight with Venom.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Well yeah that's a way but I would personally like to see other villains aswell. They can't please everyone but let's have a few secondary villains and not just have the big 3 (Goblin, Venom and Ock). I just think it's best to leave Venom off for 3 because everything will become too convuluted and with various other elements on the story, it'll make for a crowded movie.

Maybe they can introduce the Eddie character and just show Spidey getting one up on him in 3. Then 4, Spidey humilates him some more, slowly building it up and not rushing it. Spidey gets the black suit and fights a villain whoever it may be. Then at the end Spidey rejects the suit but Brock is there on a story to discredit Spidey but gets the suit, as the cliffhanger show Eddie transform into venom. Then five, we can show someone stalikgn Peter Parker, making his life miserable. Slowly tormenting him and driving him crazy with anger and then the big fight with Venom.

This could also work but as a venom fan i dont really want to wait ten years to see him on screen
Would you be happy with a montage of spidey kicking minor villain ass at the begining of SM3?
ive always thought it was a way to get the likes of vulture,rhino,shocker etc on the screen

 

[Ace Gunman]

Well yeah that's a way but I would personally like to see other villains aswell. They can't please everyone but let's have a few secondary villains and not just have the big 3 (Goblin, Venom and Ock). I just think it's best to leave Venom off for 3 because everything will become too convuluted and with various other elements on the story, it'll make for a crowded movie.

Maybe they can introduce the Eddie character and just show Spidey getting one up on him in 3. Then 4, Spidey humilates him some more, slowly building it up and not rushing it. Spidey gets the black suit and fights a villain whoever it may be. Then at the end Spidey rejects the suit but Brock is there on a story to discredit Spidey but gets the suit, as the cliffhanger show Eddie transform into venom. Then five, we can show someone stalikgn Peter Parker, making his life miserable. Slowly tormenting him and driving him crazy with anger and then the big fight with Venom.

Don't get me wrong, that's a great plan, but Sam already said that Sony doesn't want more than 3 movies. And no matter what the hardcore fans want, it's about box office sales. The sales won't be nearly as good for The lizard or green Goblin again as they would be for Venom. Thn there's the factor that even if SOny did make more then 3, Sam doesn't want to be involved in any more than 3, and niether do Tobey or Kirsten.

I've heard people saying that they'd like to see the characters "grow" and "age", in a continued series of movies. But even if Tobey does stay, that won't work. He's almost 30, he's almost 30 and he looks like he's 20. When he ages, it's not going to be a subtle thing, it's going to be BAM! and he'll no longer look the right age.

The thing is......movie-goers want Venom. I have a friend who's a casual Spidey fan, he watched the 90s animated series, has a few action figures, etc. And he (along with many others) don't want GG2. That is the opinion of the casual Spidey fan, or just movie goers in general. I'm a HUGE Venom fan, i've read every comic he's ever been in, seen every show, etc. And I want Venom as well. But the fact is there are alot of people who are considering not even seeing the movie if it's GG again.

I lost my original point...oh yes! The point is, there most likely won't be more than 3 movies. SO we should all stop saying... "In the 4th movie they should do this, or that!". Because there isn't going to be a forth, everything points to there not being a forth (much to my dismay, along with most Spidey fans). The main cast is leaving, the director, the studio doesn't want anymore, etc. It all points to no more than 3.

 

[The Lumberjack]

Don't get me wrong, that's a great plan, but Sam already said that Sony doesn't want more than 3 movies. And no matter what the hardcore fans want, it's about box office sales. The sales won't be nearly as good for The lizard or green Goblin again as they would be for Venom. Thn there's the factor that even if SOny did make more then 3, Sam doesn't want to be involved in any more than 3, and niether do Tobey or Kirsten.

I've heard people saying that they'd like to see the characters "grow" and "age", in a continued series of movies. But even if Tobey does stay, that won't work. He's almost 30, he's almost 30 and he looks like he's 20. When he ages, it's not going to be a subtle thing, it's going to be BAM! and he'll no longer look the right age.

The thing is......movie-goers want Venom. I have a friend who's a casual Spidey fan, he watched the 90s animated series, has a few action figures, etc. And he (along with many others) don't want GG2. That is the opinion of the casual Spidey fan, or just movie goers in general. I'm a HUGE Venom fan, i've read every comic he's ever been in, seen every show, etc. And I want Venom as well. But the fact is there are alot of people who are considering not even seeing the movie if it's GG again.

I lost my original point...oh yes! The point is, there most likely won't be more than 3 movies. SO we should all stop saying... "In the 4th movie they should do this, or that!". Because there isn't going to be a forth, everything points to there not being a forth (much to my dismay, along with most Spidey fans). The main cast is leaving, the director, the studio doesn't want anymore, etc. It all points to no more than 3.

Well said. I completely agree w/ everything you just said. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[spider-jide]

did anyone read the december issue of wizard because there is a poll of who should be the villian and guess which who led with 52%..... venom.

Thats interesting, where did they get their figures from? How big was their sample size? Raimi wont base his decision on meaningless stats from wizard oh and fyi it just so happens that Raimi is actually considering using the vulture or kraven for the 3rd movie which is a load of BS imo. Sometimes Raimi tries to go too deep with the characterization of peter parker that he overlooks the more better suited rout to take. Having GG2 and the Lizard will put peter in one hell of a predicament, surrounding his relatioships with conners and harry not to mention it makes for better visuals.

 

[OtepApe]

This could also work but as a venom fan i dont really want to wait ten years to see him on screen
Would you be happy with a montage of spidey kicking minor villain ass at the begining of SM3?
ive always thought it was a way to get the likes of vulture,rhino,shocker etc on the screen

Yeah, I know what you mean. It was just an idea to appease people. Personally I am not too bothered if Venom appears. A montage would be nice, but wouldn't that be very expensive for two mins worth of film? Even if they just show a minor battle near the beginning that takes like 2 mins or something.

 

[OtepApe]

Don't get me wrong, that's a great plan, but Sam already said that Sony doesn't want more than 3 movies. And no matter what the hardcore fans want, it's about box office sales. The sales won't be nearly as good for The lizard or green Goblin again as they would be for Venom. Thn there's the factor that even if SOny did make more then 3, Sam doesn't want to be involved in any more than 3, and niether do Tobey or Kirsten.

I've heard people saying that they'd like to see the characters "grow" and "age", in a continued series of movies. But even if Tobey does stay, that won't work. He's almost 30, he's almost 30 and he looks like he's 20. When he ages, it's not going to be a subtle thing, it's going to be BAM! and he'll no longer look the right age.

The thing is......movie-goers want Venom. I have a friend who's a casual Spidey fan, he watched the 90s animated series, has a few action figures, etc. And he (along with many others) don't want GG2. That is the opinion of the casual Spidey fan, or just movie goers in general. I'm a HUGE Venom fan, i've read every comic he's ever been in, seen every show, etc. And I want Venom as well. But the fact is there are alot of people who are considering not even seeing the movie if it's GG again.

I lost my original point...oh yes! The point is, there most likely won't be more than 3 movies. SO we should all stop saying... "In the 4th movie they should do this, or that!". Because there isn't going to be a forth, everything points to there not being a forth (much to my dismay, along with most Spidey fans). The main cast is leaving, the director, the studio doesn't want anymore, etc. It all points to no more than 3.

Yes but, if there are no more after 3 then we need to finish the whole Harry thing. harry is going to be a Goblin that's pretty certain. If we then toss the origin of Venom, decent fights with Venom plus MJ, Aunt May, The BUgle etc it's going to make for a very messy movie.

I am saying Venom and Goblin shouldn't be in the same movie, it's convuluted for it to happen. Now you can disagree but A Venom and Goblin in same movie would be a complete clusterf**k. It's too much going on at once. I understand people want Venom but to abandon 2 movies worth of build up of harry becomming the Goblin, to put Venom in, is just crap. It won't happen and Sony aren't that stupid.

 

[Ace Gunman]

What I personally would love to see is....Venom. Granted, i'm a huge Venom fan. But you have to look at this from a box office point of view. People, normal people (not us comic book geeks ), don't want to see the GG again. Harry or not, it's not good marketing stratgey. The movie would be Spidey 1 all over again. Harry gets powers, goes after Peter, then MJ, and then a big battle royal happens where he dies. Now personally, even though i'm a Spidey fan, even I don't want to see a movie about that. I'd watch it, but I probbably wouldn't enjoy it that much.

In an ideal world we get atleast 4 movies, Venom's the 3rd, closure to the Osborn/Green Goblin legacy in the 4th, and all during the 3rd they could have a small side plot about harry's growing drug/alcohal problem, leading into a completely mental breakdown for Spidey 4, where he takes on the mantle of Green Goblin (2nd) and goes after Peter. BUT you must remember Sam's made it pretty clear that Sony Pictures doesn't want more than 3, and neither does Tobey or Kirsten.

This is what I think is the best bet.....Have the movie be set a couple years after the 2nd, at the beggining have peter graduate from university (at that time he would be done his fourth year in college, give or take a few months). Then somewhere during the movie have him propose to MJ. Somewhere near the beggining they would have to introduce the symbiote, for this i'd either use the 90s Spidey animated series storyline (IE: Brought back to space by John Jameson or some other astronaut), OR they could use a similar/variation of the Ultimate Spider-Man symbiote plot. Meaning it would be an invention, possibly government created.

After you have it brought back from wherever, find some way for Peter to come into contact with it (obviously), all the while doing some subtle Brock loses career and hates Spider-Man for it plotline, possibly a variation of the comic book version. News Paper Headline: "TRUE Sin Eater Exposed...by Spider-Man!". You wouldn't actually need to show the fight between them, but it would be neat if they could fit it in. Then have Eddie walking down the dark streets at night only to find a notice saying he has to vacate his apartment psot-haste. Then entering to hear a message on the answering machine from his ex-wife talking about the divorce settlement.

Now, during the movie have Peter struggle with control of the symbiote, only to find out it's trying to take him over (most likely through angry impluses, as well as possibly yelling at Aunt May or MJ). Have some flashbacks to Peter as a child, hopefully limiting Uncle Ben's influence over the plotline (that plot is over-used). Do the whole Brock goes to chapel only to join with a rejected symbiote story. Then cut to the next scene, which occurs sometime after, with Peter and MJ moving into their new apartment (not yet married, but soon to be). Then have Venom approach MJ and scare her in her new home (like the classic spidey story), have her deathly frightened and whatnot.

Venom then plays some mind games with Peter (Threatens to reveal his identity, approaches his Aunt, etc). A huge battle occurs, Venom loses badly, but lives (or not), but if he lives that could run into the rumored "Venom" movie (where i'd like to see him battle it out with Carnage). BAM! There's 2 hours gone already. Now make the movie 2 and a half hours long and focus the last part on Harry breaking down and going after Peter, only to crash his wedding (which he had recieved an invite to). Yet another huge battle takes place, Harry (much stronger than his father, because of an enhanced formula) about to kill Peter, when suddenly his heart gives out, and he goes critical, due to the imperfect new formula, and then he dies in a hospital bed.

Okay, that's msot of another half an hour gone, and at the end show Peter and MJ (both wearing wedding rings/bands/whatever), at Harry's funeral (talking about how familiar this all seems). Now ofcourse there would be alot of other things in the movie, but that's just the basic plot. There's your movie. The perfect ending, both happy (because of the marriage) as well as sad (because of Harry unfortunate death).

The main plot would be focussed around Venom/The symbiote though, since alot of people don't want to see another movie devoted to the Green Goblin. The Lizard could make a good movie, but the plot can only be played out so long because the lizard is subject to base animal instincts, and can't really control his actions. Venom not only would make a great movie villain, but he has alot of fans, and would bring the movie a darker tone.

But hey, those are just my thoughts.

I understand, OtepApe. Infact, that's why I came up with a possible rough draft for the movies plot, it's detailed, but only to a certain extent. I said it in this thread earlier on (Page 3, actually), but i've quoted it in this very post, all you have to do is look up. Personally, my idea has everything I want to see in the final Spider-Man movie.

It has Venom, Green Goblin/Harry closure, it evolves both Peter and MJ as characters (mostly Peter, but still), and moves their relationship to the next level, it also has that one thing a finale can't be without......a certain air of finality......while still leaving the plot open-ended for future expansion (maybe in the form of future movies, maybe a TV series, or what-have-you).


EDIT: Oh yes, i'd also like to see Peter with a braver attitude in the 3rd film, i'm sure some time will pass between 2 and 3 (maybe 2 years again), and what with him getting constant strength from MJ, and just growing up in general.....basically, I think he doesn't need to be quite so shy and timmid as he was in the first 2 films. He should be more mature, carry himself differently, the kind of way you can only carry yourself because of support from a significant other.

 

[OtepApe]

I understand, OtepApe. Infact, that's why I came up with a possible rough draft for the movies plot, it's detailed, but only to a certain extent. I said it in this thread earlier on (Page 3, actually), but i've quoted it in this very post, all you have to do is look up. Personally, my idea has everything I want to see in the final Spider-Man movie.

It has Venom, Green Goblin/Harry closure, it evolves both Peter and MJ as characters (mostly Peter, but still), and moves their relationship to the next level, it also has that one thing a finale can't be without......a certain air of finality......while still leaving the plot open-ended for future expansion (maybe in the form of future movies, maybe a TV series, or what-have-you).


EDIT: Oh yes, i'd also like to see Peter with a braver attitude in the 3rd film, i'm sure some time will pass between 2 and 3 (maybe 2 years again), and what with him getting constant strength from MJ, and just growing up in general.....basically, I think he doesn't need to be quite so shy and timmid as he was in the first 2 films. He should be more mature, carry himself differently, the kind of way you can only carry yourself because of support from a significant other.

Ok, well from looking at your idea I have a few things to say. You have the main focus on Venom when it should be on Harry, you say people won't be interested in seeing another Goblin, I think your wrong. Look at Darth Vader for example, he was the villain in all three Star Wars movies. Plus writers could make it work. Plus it's not the same villain, it's Peters best friend, it could easily work. These writers get paid a lot of money to do stuff like this, I am sure they can pull it off without sounding familiar.


Having the whole symbitoe thing in one movie would be too rushed. I understand you want Venom in, but this is the wrong way of going about it IMO. To have two movies worth of build up of harry turning into the Goblin and then to be pushed aside in favor of Venom is poor storytelling, they can make another Goblin work. Venom should not be in the 3rd movie because it will take away everything the first two movies have tried to be doing. Sony won't want to totally rape the series just to make Venom fans happy.

The thing is, if Sony won't be doing anymore movies after 3 (which I think is wrong anyway), then Venom fans are desperate to get Venom in before it ends. I want my favourite character to be featured in the movies but if he isn't I understand. venom fans need to stop being like this and let the storyline finish with Harry WITHOUT Venom.

 

[Ace Gunman]

But that's the thing, Harry ISN'T a main focus. He's a snivelling drug addicted wimp (and a heck of a character for it) who lost almost as soon as he began (comic-wise), if anything the Harry/Goblin plot is a sideplot, that not only couldn't fill a whole movie. But thr casual movie goer doesn't want it either. I say this not because i'm a huge Venom fan, or anything like that. But because i've seen first hand, on other message boards, on other online chats, mIRC channels, etc.

People want Venom, and box office sales would be much better with Venom, and that's what it's about. Do you honestly think Sony cares about the fans? I'm sure they do to a certain extent, but in the end...it's about money. They won't make the kind of money they want to make with a GG2 Spidey film. I tell you this now, half an hour, to an hour, is the most time a Harry goes GG2 plot can fill. If they pushed it any longer then that it would become a bore-fest.

This is how it would go down.....Harry breaks down, goes after Spidey, they both make a strategic retreat, he goes after MJ to get at Peter, one final duel to the death, Harry dies.....the end. You could fit some character advancing moment in their but that's still not nearly enough to fill a whole movie. I'm a huge Spider-Man fan, have been since I was a small boy, but it just won't work as a whole movie. ANd in the end it would turn out predictable, just another....."Return of the <Place Name Here>" movie.

The majority wants Venom, the studio will be pushing for Venom, and GG2 can't fill the timeslot without becoming an almost exact copy of the first Spidey movie combined with almost any other "Return of the..." movie. Heck, even as a hardcore Spidey fan I wouldn't be in a rush to see that movie in theatres. I've seen all the Spidey movies so far on the first day they were released, bought the DVDs on the first day they were released (later today i'm getting Spider-Man 2). And so on, but even so, i'd be hesitant to see a movie about GG2, and i'm a Green Goblin fan (movie or otherwise).

Alot of casual movie-goers only liked Spidey 1, only liked the Green Goblin, and alot of the online fanbase refered to his armor as "Power Ranger armor" (althoguh i'm not sure why.....Power Ranger's wear a sort of spandex material...). So if even I, a person who is a fan of GG, a person who actually favored James Franco over most of the other cast members, don't want to see a GG2 movie.......Then what does that say for the rest of the world who just "liked" him?

 

[OtepApe]

But that's the thing, Harry ISN'T a main focus. He's a snivelling drug addicted wimp (and a heck of a character for it) who lost almost as soon as he began (comic-wise), if anything the Harry/Goblin plot is a sideplot, that not only couldn't fill a whole movie. But thr casual movie goer doesn't want it either. I say this not because i'm a huge Venom fan, or anything like that. But because i've seen first hand, on other message boards, on other online chats, mIRC channels, etc.

People want Venom, and box office sales would be much better with Venom, and that's what it's about. Do you honestly think Sony cares about the fans? I'm sure they do to a certain extent, but in the end...it's about money. They won't make the kind of money they want to make with a GG2 Spidey film. I tell you this now, half an hour, to an hour, is the most time a Harry goes GG2 plot can fill. If they pushed it any longer then that it would become a bore-fest.

This is how it would go down.....Harry breaks down, goes after Spidey, they both make a strategic retreat, he goes after MJ to get at Peter, one final duel to the death, Harry dies.....the end. You could fit some character advancing moment in their but that's still not nearly enough to fill a whole movie. I'm a huge Spider-Man fan, have been since I was a small boy, but it just won't work as a whole movie. ANd in the end it would turn out predictable, just another....."Return of the <Place Name Here>" movie.

The majority wants Venom, the studio will be pushing for Venom, and GG2 can't fill the timeslot without becoming an almost exact copy of the first Spidey movie combined with almost any other "Return of the..." movie. Heck, even as a hardcore Spidey fan I wouldn't be in a rush to see that movie in theatres. I've seen all the Spidey movies so far on the first day they were released, bought the DVDs on the first day they were released (later today i'm getting Spider-Man 2). And so on, but even so, i'd be hesitant to see a movie about GG2, and i'm a Green Goblin fan (movie or otherwise).

Alot of casual movie-goers only liked Spidey 1, only liked the Green Goblin, and alot of the online fanbase refered to his armor as "Power Ranger armor" (althoguh i'm not sure why.....Power Ranger's wear a sort of spandex material...). So if even I, a person who is a fan of GG, a person who actually favored James Franco over most of the other cast members, don't want to see a GG2 movie.......Then what does that say for the rest of the world who just "liked" him?

Harry isn't a main focus, are you serious??? Harrys story is one of the best stories to ever come out of the Spider-man comics. Dude honestly, Harry could totally carry a movie by himself or like I said have a secondary villain like Sandman, Scorpion, Electro etc

Your thinking regular movie goers won't want to see another Goblin or perhaps they'd like to see the actual ending to 2 movies worth of build up. yes there are more venom fans then most others, but most venom fans only like him because of the way he looks or that he's the 'evil spider-man'. You can't enter the head of every single movie fan and say what they want. I don't care what they want, they need to finish the Harry story and to have it pushed aside for Venom is ridiculous.

Like you, I have been to see the movies on opening night, like you I bought the dvds on the the day they were relased and I also preferred James Franco to most of the other cast members but not like you I want to see a ending to the Goblin legacy and not pushed aside for Venom who is the 'cool' villain. If they put venom in this and push aside harry then I won't be as eager to see the moive because it will e poor storytelling. I am not opposed to having venom in the series but just not 3. Most venom fans are bothered, because if this is the final movie then they are bothered they won't get to see Venom. I can honestly say hand on my heart that Venom won't be in 3 and Harry will be the main focus like he should be.

 

[Ace Gunman]

Harry isn't a main focus, are you serious??? Harrys story is one of the best stories to ever come out of the Spider-man comics. Dude honestly, Harry could totally carry a movie by himself or like I said have a secondary villain like Sandman, Scorpion, Electro etc

Your thinking regular movie goers won't want to see another Goblin or perhaps they'd like to see the actual ending to 2 movies worth of build up. yes there are more venom fans then most others, but most venom fans only like him because of the way he looks or that he's the 'evil spider-man'. You can't enter the head of every single movie fan and say what they want. I don't care what they want, they need to finish the Harry story and to have it pushed aside for Venom is ridiculous.

Like you, I have been to see the movies on opening night, like you I bought the dvds on the the day they were relased and I also preferred James Franco to most of the other cast members but not like you I want to see a ending to the Goblin legacy and not pushed aside for Venom who is the 'cool' villain. If they put venom in this and push aside harry then I won't be as eager to see the moive because it will e poor storytelling. I am not opposed to having venom in the series but just not 3. Most venom fans are bothered, because if this is the final movie then they are bothered they won't get to see Venom. I can honestly say hand on my heart that Venom won't be in 3 and Harry will be the main focus like he should be.

Actual, I was saying Harry wasn't a main focus in the movies, that's where he's a sideplot (Sorry, I should have been more specific ). It's true though, Venom is a hit because he's the Anti-Spider-Man, I liked him for alot more reasons than that, but that was what drew me to him. But, in the movies the Harry thing is a sideplot, and no, for the love of all that is holy......don't throw in a random B or C level villain.

Remember Batman Forever and Batman & Robin? TERRIBLE movies (watchable, but not nearly as good as the first 2), know why? Two reasons really, Robin.....Batman's movies seemed to be dragged down by Robin, and having 2 villains. Yes, I was sugegsting 2 villains as well Venom and the Goblin, but the Goblin, in my vision of PSidey 3, is actually more of a surprise ending.

Picture it...the big fight with Venom is over, now, Flash forward to the wedding......the church. Peter and MJ are at the alter, the minister says "Does anyone have any objections?". And you're expecting some magical moment, just then......a pumpkin bomb flys through the window and GG2 flys in, a battle ensues, and well, you know the rest.

If you have a movie centered around Harry becoming GG2, what you'll have is a little thing known as "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2", you know, the one where shredder comes back, and the whole movie is cenetered around him standing around saying "I'll get the turtles!", only in the end to have him pumped up for 2 seconds and then die. Return/Revenge movies are never good, that's why you have to take the focuss OFF of Harry, make people think nothing's going to happen while distracting them with Venom. Then when they least expect it, Green Goblin's back, baby!

Venom is a deep character, but it's been proved time and time again that that depth (or atleast the basic hatred for Spidey), and Spidey doing the whole "I've got a new costume...wait, it's evil! ahhhhh! go away!" thing, can be done quickly (IE: Ultimate Spider-Man, 90s Spider-Man animated series, and others).

 

[OtepApe]

Actual, I was saying Harry wasn't a main focus in the movies, that's where he's a sideplot (Sorry, I should have been more specific ). It's true though, Venom is a hit because he's the Anti-Spider-Man, I liked him for alot more reasons than that, but that was what drew me to him. But, in the movies the Harry thing is a sideplot, and no, for the love of all that is holy......don't throw in a random B or C level villain.

Remember Batman Forever and Batman & Robin? TERRIBLE movies (watchable, but not nearly as good as the first 2), know why? Two reasons really, Robin.....Batman's movies seemed to be dragged down by Robin, and having 2 villains. Yes, I was sugegsting 2 villains as well Venom and the Goblin, but the Goblin, in my vision of PSidey 3, is actually more of a surprise ending.

Picture it...the big fight with Venom is over, now, Flash forward to the wedding......the church. Peter and MJ are at the alter, the minister says "Does anyone have any objections?". And you're expecting some magical moment, just then......a pumpkin bomb flys through the window and GG2 flys in, a battle ensues, and well, you know the rest.

If you have a movie centered around Harry becoming GG2, what you'll have is a little thing known as "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 2", you know, the one where shredder comes back, and the whole movie is cenetered around him standing around saying "I'll get the turtles!", only in the end to have him pumped up for 2 seconds and then die. Return/Revenge movies are never good, that's why you have to take the focuss OFF of Harry, make people think nothing's going to happen while distracting them with Venom. Then when they least expect it, Green Goblin's back, baby!

Venom is a deep character, but it's been proved time and time again that that depth (or atleast the basic hatred for Spidey), and Spidey doing the whole "I've got a new costume...wait, it's evil! ahhhhh! go away!" thing, can be done quickly (IE: Ultimate Spider-Man, 90s Spider-Man animated series, and others).

Yes but obviously Harry will take centre stage with the ending of Spider-man 2. Just because the final two Batman movies didn't work well doesn't mean that will happen with Spider-man. Batman Returns proves that two villains could work. hey don't even have to work together and just be kept separate.

Venom needs a set up movie, not just one movie. If you have one movie with venom and Goblin you have to have the intruduction of the suit, Spidey wearing the suit, Spidey rejecting the suit, the introduction of Eddie, the humiliations of Eddie thanks to Spidey, Eddie getting the suit, a decent battle between Venom and Spider-man, possibly 2 battles, then harrys struggles with his fathers actions, Harry deciding on what to do all of that, poosibly seeing images of his father, plus we have Spider-man and Mj, Aunt May, The Bugle and other things, it makes for a very messy mobie. If they have Venom in with The Goblin in 3, it will ruin what has been a great franchise.

 

[American_Hobo]

Yes but obviously Harry will take centre stage with the ending of Spider-man 2. Just because the final two Batman movies didn't work well doesn't mean that will happen with Spider-man. Batman Returns proves that two villains could work. hey don't even have to work together and just be kept separate.

Venom needs a set up movie, not just one movie. If you have one movie with venom and Goblin you have to have the intruduction of the suit, Spidey wearing the suit, Spidey rejecting the suit, the introduction of Eddie, the humiliations of Eddie thanks to Spidey, Eddie getting the suit, a decent battle between Venom and Spider-man, possibly 2 battles, then harrys struggles with his fathers actions, Harry deciding on what to do all of that, poosibly seeing images of his father, plus we have Spider-man and Mj, Aunt May, The Bugle and other things, it makes for a very messy mobie. If they have Venom in with The Goblin in 3, it will ruin what has been a great franchise.

I don't he NEEDS whole movie to introduce him...
If they decides to use Venom, I'm sure they can have a easy way to introduce him

 

[Stevens25]

I don't see why some people don't want Venom in part 3,especially Raimi himself. Venom may not be what some people call a "classic" villain,but he is the most evil looking of all Spidey's foes.Plus,I always hear Sam Raimi say that he wants villains in his movies that are attached to Spidey and Peter Parker in some way.Venom does that.The symbiote used to be Spiderman's after all and it knows all of Peters secrets,fears and weaknesses. Plus,you want a villain on screen who is visually stunning and will catch people's eye.Again,Venom does this. The reason Venom is my favorite Spidey foe is because he is the anti-Spiderman. Same kinda look,same powers,except Venom is evil. He is what Spidey could become if he ever lost control. I've read a little of the comics too and I loved the way Venom/Eddie Brock tormented Peter and threatened his family,especially MJ. As for Venom having no personality,well,Raimi and the screenwriters have proven that they can create great characters and story.They could give Venom a makeover and make him the baddest of all Spidey's enemies.
Besides,from what I've heard,the series may end at 3.What better way to go out than have Venom and Spiderman face off to end the series?

 

[Ace Gunman]

I don't see why some people don't want Venom in part 3,especially Raimi himself. Venom may not be what some people call a "classic" villain,but he is the most evil looking of all Spidey's foes.Plus,I always hear Sam Raimi say that he wants villains in his movies that are attached to Spidey and Peter Parker in some way.Venom does that.The symbiote used to be Spiderman's after all and it knows all of Peters secrets,fears and weaknesses. Plus,you want a villain on screen who is visually stunning and will catch people's eye.Again,Venom does this. The reason Venom is my favorite Spidey foe is because he is the anti-Spiderman. Same kinda look,same powers,except Venom is evil. He is what Spidey could become if he ever lost control. I've read a little of the comics too and I loved the way Venom/Eddie Brock tormented Peter and threatened his family,especially MJ. As for Venom having no personality,well,Raimi and the screenwriters have proven that they can create great characters and story.They could give Venom a makeover and make him the baddest of all Spidey's enemies.
Besides,from what I've heard,the series may end at 3.What better way to go out than have Venom and Spiderman face off to end the series?

Well, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Venom is Spidey's ultimate challenge (although Norman Osborn/Green Goblin 1 is his ultimate protagonist). Venom has all his powers, memories, secrets, and so on. The only difference is Venom is stronger, faster, and although people don't think of Eddie Brock like this...he's actually quite intelligent.

But there's more to Venom/Eddie/The Symbiote then just being an anti-Spider-Man....

****EDDIE BROCK'S STORY****

Once apon a time, Eddie's father (Carol Brock), and his wife were a happy couple...but Carol's wife was still unhappy. You see.....she wanted a big family, and would never truely be happy until she got one. So they started having kids first (presumeably) she gave birth to Eddie's older sister (Mary Brock), then later on in life...while giving birth to Eddie, Eddie's mother died. After that his father was never the same, he was no longer loving, caring, or anything, he was just a bitter cynical man. Althoguh, he still gave Eddie the best things in life (the best schools, and so on). But he never *really* payed attention to him.

Eddie grew up without the love of his father, and while trying to prove something to himself and his father, he became a journalist (He went through college, journalism courses, etc). Somewhere along the line he married Anne Weying, they were happy, in love...but Eddie's father still didn't notice him. No matter how well in life he did. Eventually something went bad in Eddie's marriage, they seperated and eventually got a divorce. Not long after Eddie's career was going down the toilet, he had to prove his worth, and did when a Man claimed to be the criminal named "Sin Eater". Eddie's career was now going strong.

Until Spider-Man exposed the true Sin Eater. Eddie became a laughing stock, he was fired, and humiliated. And blamed it all on Spider-Man (who's fault it technically was). Little did we all know at the time, Eddie was also diagnosed with a specific type of cancer, and didn't have long to live. His life was ruined, he lost his wife, his job, and soon his life (or so we would think). It was over for Eddie, and in turn he was going to end it all, but before he did (being the religious man he is) he went to a local Cathedral to pray before he would kill himself.

Little did he know, Eddie Brock would die that night, but not in the way he thought.


****THE SYMBIOTE'S STORY****

The symbiote, the black costume, whatever you want to call it...has just as much of a tragic story as Brock. The race it came from, arn't really symbiotes at all, actually, they're more like parasites, they feed off a lifeform until they die, then they discard them and find a new host. But this particular symbiote wasn't like that, it was good, it believed that a symbiote and host should live in harmony. The other members of it's species didn't take this idea likely, infact they labeled the symbiote insane and imprisoned it on a special planet (The Secret War planet) where they were later going to disect it.

Fortunately, before they could Spider-Man stumbled upon it and would later take it back to earth, for months (I presume), the symbiote and Spider-Man worked together as a team, just like the symbiote had always dreamed. Unfortunately when it tried to fully bond with Peter he rejected it and it was imprisoned by Reed Richards (Mr.Fantastic). Later on however, it would escape and track down parker only to try and re-bond with him, Peter once again rejected it, this time relying on the sonic frequencys of a large bell at a local cathedral.

The symbiote would be rejected, half dead, it's (metaphysical) heart.....crushed. However, while at the chathedral it sensed another.....another person who's hatred for SPider-Man was endless, Eddie Brock. It merged with him and they formed a single entity......VENOM!


****VENOM'S STORY****

Venom was born, the hatred from both the symbiote and Brock would allow them to form a new alliance, one dedicated to destroying Spider-Man/Peter Parker. The symbiote shared all of the secrets it had learned from parker with Brock, as well as Spidey's abilities (only stronger). He was immune to his Spider sense, stronger, faster, and so much more. But, Brock still had basic control over the symbiote, and fought to keep it (mostly because it was the symbiote that kept his cancer at bay, and gave him a reason to live).

Eddie was not gone however, infact his sense of virtue was shared with the symbiote, he wanted only to kill Spider-Man, but not hurt the innocent. After countless battles with Spidey, Venom eventually learned that Spidey was a nescisary evil, and that without him other innocents would die. They made a deal, if Spidey didn't come after Venom, Venom wouldn't go after Spidey. SO Venom went off to San Fransisco to persue a career as a hero (when ifnact he was on par with The Punisher, and killed anyone who commited even the smallest crime).

Throughout his career as a hero, and as a villain, he had many relationships with women, none lasted however due to his identity as Venom. He also made many allies (Morbius, Wolverine, Punisher, and many MANY more), as well as many enemies. Then there's his many offspring, Carnage, the first. And a few others who's dorment eggs were extracted from the symbiote and then genetically modified. But I digress......

During all this time the symbiote was strangely effected by Brock's mind, and the human mind in general. It did, in the long run, make him evil, and so the truce with Spidey didn't last. It slowly began eating away at Brock's mind and soul, leaving him basically an empty shell. For some reason, the symbiote has now mutated, changed, evolved, it's now more powerful, and evil. It can exsist without Brock, but still uses him as a tool (going back and forth between Brock). And in the long run, Venom became more symbiote than Brock.

Well, i've covered alot of Venom history, but you know what? That's not even 50% of it. Not even close actually. But i'll finish up by saying what's been going on in recent Venom history. The symbiote is pregnant again, Anne Weying killed herself because she went mad from contact with the symbiote (a couple of times the symbiote bonded with her to become a sort of She-Venom). Eddie's cancer worsened, and he has a revelation, he no longer wanted the symbiote, and auctioned it off to the highest bidder for millions of dollars, then gave that money to charity.

So what happened to Eddie? Knwoing he didn't have long to live, and because the pain was unbearable.....Eddie slit his wrists, and is now (presumabley) dead. But the symbiote lives on, after it abandoned it's new (weak) host, it went off, most likely to find a new host...


Well, that's Venom, and that's just the tip of the iceburg.

 

[GoldGoblin]

We need to save him for S-M4 or S-M5 to keep the franchise going,because he is one of the coolest villains.

 

[Ace Gunman]

We need to save him for S-M4 or S-M5 to keep the franchise going,because he is one of the coolest villains.

*Breaks down and starts crying* That's the point! There won't be a 4th or 5th! Venom is one of the best, and if there isn't going to be any more then 3, he NEEDS to be in the 3rd.

 

[MaJiN]

I agree as well. "Patience grasshoppers". As much as we want to see how Venom will be depicted on the big screen, he's going to have to be held back for a while. Let's just allow Raimi to finish the 3rd film and hope that Sony is willing to do a 2nd Spidey trilogy which would most likely be centered around the symbiote.

 

[spider-jide]

All you geeks expecting to see venom for the 3rd movies are kidding yourselves. Wake up and stop dreaming. They havn't even showed us Brock, where is the symbiot gonna come from, bond with spidey and eventually get to brock and give us venom as a villain for a 2 hour movie? I'll tell you where its gonna come from, from your asses! It aint gonna happen, period, why is it so hard to understand? If the movie makes certain decisions for the 3rd movie e.g. bring in brock and bring in the symbiot at the end of the 3rd movie, theres a big chance venom could be the villain for the 4th movie.

 

[Ace Gunman]

All you geeks expecting to see venom for the 3rd movies are kidding yourselves. Wake up and stop dreaming. They havn't even showed us Brock, where is the symbiot gonna come from, bond with spidey and eventually get to brock and give us venom as a villain for a 2 hour movie? I'll tell you where its gonna come from, from your asses! It aint gonna happen, period, why is it so hard to understand? If the movie makes certain decisions for the 3rd movie e.g. bring in brock and bring in the symbiot at the end of the 3rd movie, theres a big chance venom could be the villain for the 4th movie.

Pfft, shows what you know. The Spider-Man animated series did the entire Venom saga (including the symbiote joining with Spidey) in 3 episodes! Know how long that is in real time? 60 minutes, 20 per episode. And that's with a bunch of extra stuff that isn't needed (like a fight with Shocker), take out all the crap we don't need from that story, you have all that done in 40 minutes, leaving you 80 more minutes to work with. Venom is a simple movie to make (next to the CGI, but you bet your @sses Spidey 3 will have a bigger budget).

 

[spider-jide]

Pfft, shows what you know. The Spider-Man animated series did the entire Venom saga (including the symbiote joining with Spidey) in 3 episodes! Know how long that is in real time? 60 minutes, 20 per episode. And that's with a bunch of extra stuff that isn't needed (like a fight with Shocker), take out all the crap we don't need from that story, you have all that done in 40 minutes, leaving you 80 more minutes to work with. Venom is a simple movie to make (next to the CGI, but you bet your @sses Spidey 3 will have a bigger budget).

Oh my goodness, you are perhaps one of the most intellectually challanged posters i've met on these boards! Your comparing a cartoon show to a movie? How pathetic, really and truley I dont usually respond to ignorant posters who feel the need to boast their "spidey knowledge" through what they know of the cartoons. I've already said that the cartoon's interpretation of introducing venom is a brilliant idea to include in the movies but this is a movie where real character development has to happen for the film to be credible and to do itself justice and not end up like those crappy batman film, heres a tip, jimbo go by yourself a clue because you clearly dont know what your talking about.

 

[Ace Gunman]

Oh my goodness, you are perhaps one of the most intellectually challanged posters i've met on these boards! Your comparing a cartoon show to a movie? How pathetic, really and truley I dont usually respond to ignorant posters who feel the need to boast their "spidey knowledge" through what they know of the cartoons. I've already said that the cartoon's interpretation of introducing venom is a brilliant idea to include in the movies but this is a movie where real character development has to happen for the film to be credible and to do itself justice and not end up like those crappy batman film, heres a tip, jimbo go by yourself a clue because you clearly dont know what your talking about.

You don't need to be so rude, I was only showing you one option. The Venom movie can be done with fairly little hastle. Brock is a character who's depth can be shown without having 50 minutes dedicated to developing him. Basically.....fired, pissed off at Spidey, divorced, bam! He's introduced. It's fairly simple. Anyways, I wasn't trying to boast, I was only presenting you with one of many possible options for a plot, especially one where you need to fit in as much as possible.

No matter what you may think, cartoons and movies are not so different, it takes just as much time for a cartoon character to walk into a room and say something, as it does for an in-the-flesh actor. It takes just as much time for Spidey to throw a punch at Venom in animated form, as it would in (most likely) CGI.