What are your complaints? What would you do differently? *SPOILERS*

[Shazam]

Okay, let's address this thing about Superman killing. No, he generally doesn't kill, but there have been multiple times in both the comics and movies in which he did. Here are some, in no particular order:

He killed Zod in Superman II. And don't tell me about the unused footage with the "Arctic Patrol" leading Zod and company away in handcuffs. That footage was UNUSED. Oh, and Superman killed Zod AFTER the villains had been stripped of their powers, so he didn't do it to save lives...he did it because Zod had it coming. And Lois killed Ursa! And Superman expressed no regret about it at all! In MoS Superman was shaken that he had to kill.

Superman killed Doomsday...twice. They beat each other to death in Superman #75. Afterwards, in Superman Doomsday Hunter/Prey, he enlists some guy whose name I don't recall and they travel through time to leave Doomsday to die at the Big Crunch at the end of the Universe!

Sometime in the late 80s/early 90s (I don't remember the issue numbers) Superman fights a trio of Kryptonians from an alternate universe (including General Zod) and actually executes them with Kryptonite.

There may be others I don't remember. But to say that "Superman never kills" is demonstrably false.

 

[makkerskilap]

Went to see the movie last night..

What an CGI fest for everyone..
It's a good movie, but there were times throughout the movie that I
felt was unnesserary/dull/slow/too short, for example:

1. The scene with Clark and Lois at the station, how the hell did she get there so fast?
2. The scene with supes smashing the drone were the two from the military is, and that womens dialogue was just stupid...
3. The "Lois is supposed to be everywhere i guess" thought. Why is she the one doing the interview with supes, why is she flying in the cargo ship when they are going to crash it into zods. Wheres washington, instead of theese seemingly ordinary military people.. Didn't they actually say at some point that Washington didn't care? how can't they care?

Besides the fact that Supes was living in the us, wheres the rest of the world? they begin to terraform the planet on us soil but no one reacts other that the us?

I bet I have more thoughts but that's what I'm thinking right now..
I also though the CGI wasn't the best at times compared to Avengers or Iron man, scenes where they were flying and jumping around, just looked stupid.

Two more things.. I thought they weren't supposed to call him "Superman" in this movie, and that was a choice goyer and co made? A guy called him that.. and I also remember something about them saying they woudn't do the "clark with glasses on the planet" thing, because of the realistic take on the movie and that didn't fit in..

I LOVED the scenes on Krypton though, wished we saw more of that.. The scenes with pa kent and jor el, perfect, as was the young clarks.

Still having trouble seeing Batman and Superman in the same movie, with this much CGI.. Just can't see it done as good/better than the Avengers...

Oh yeah and the killing of zod, the way he could just snap his neck like that was just too easy as others have mentioned... Really wierd. And also how could Zod adapt so quickly without his special suit when supes has had 30+ years of practicing?

And of course, the suit. How the hell did the suit just apear in a SCOUT SHIP several thousands of years old. How could that just happen even if jor el designed it or whatever.

 

[Autonet]

Okay, let's address this thing about Superman killing. No, he generally doesn't kill, but there have been multiple times in both the comics and movies in which he did. Here are some, in no particular order:

He killed Zod in Superman II. And don't tell me about the unused footage with the "Arctic Patrol" leading Zod and company away in handcuffs. That footage was UNUSED. Oh, and Superman killed Zod AFTER the villains had been stripped of their powers, so he didn't do it to save lives...he did it because Zod had it coming. And Lois killed Ursa! And Superman expressed no regret about it at all! In MoS Superman was shaken that he had to kill.

Superman killed Doomsday...twice. They beat each other to death in Superman #75. Afterwards, in Superman Doomsday Hunter/Prey, he enlists some guy whose name I don't recall and they travel through time to leave Doomsday to die at the Big Crunch at the end of the Universe!

Sometime in the late 80s/early 90s (I don't remember the issue numbers) Superman fights a trio of Kryptonians from an alternate universe (including General Zod) and actually executes them with Kryptonite.

There may be others I don't remember. But to say that "Superman never kills" is demonstrably false.

2-3 killings in 75 years? For some people they imagine the core of the character to never have killed. It's their opinion and how they view the character. Neither side is going to convert the other to their viewpoint.

Also no point in debating here, all you're going to get is complaints...in the complaint thread.

 

[KangConquers]

Have some lighthearted moments, or some more quiet character driven moments the type we get in Batman and Iron Man.

Realize that sometimes you can't improve on the original, because in one line in Superman the Movie, you are given Zod's motivation, "the choice must be unanimous Jor-El, therefore you alone will condemn us and you alone will be held responsible by me".
they cleared that up in 30 seconds for two movies, for something this movie failed to do in 2 1/2 hours. Something about Zod's genetic breeding to protect Krypton, whatever.

I guess that's the difference between David Goyer and Mario Puzo.

All of my problems were script related. The movie looked beautiful, and the acting was fine...but the tone was a bit of a relentless 2 1/2 hour brood. For all that has been made of The Dark Knight Trilogy's "grim" tone, there are tons of warm and funny moments in those films that make the characters feel lived in.

I'm not saying turn this into an MCU movie, but I think there was probably a middle ground where we could've gotten slight reprieves from the dire tone. Give it a "hockey pants" line.


As for Zod, I think the circle his motivation but never quite pin it down. By making him a bit of a gray area character, the clarity becomes muddled. [BLACKOUT]The film almost makes Zod's coup seem justified, and sort of throws in him murdering Jor-El at the end you remember "Oh, yeah. This is the bad guy."
I certainly wasn't rooting for, or sympathizing with the haughty Kryptonian counsel who were sucking the planet dry.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[KangConquers]

These are my main issues with the story.

*SPOILERS following, obviously*


So, first off, the one thing that bugged me was Jor-El's rationalization for not building a ship for his family and flying off to Earth with his son. As it was presented on the film, it seemed Jor-El purposefully decided to stay on Krypton because no one of that generation deserved to survive....to which I was just going

...Really? I mean, really? I get that Jor-El is a dude who stands by his principles, but I just didn't buy that. I wouldn't buy that a father wouldn't accompany his son if he had the chance. It was also annoying because it could have easily been fixed. Say that after Krypon abandoned space travel they hadn't built ships in years, Jor-El didn't have time to build one to hold himself and his wife, or that maybe he did build a ship for his family, but Zod's attack interrupts it and they only have time to get Kal off. Something like that.

Now, I know this is kind of one of those basic nitpicks of the mythology. If this guy had the tech to build a space ship for his infant son, why couldn't he do it for himself and his wife? That's just part of the story itself, and usually something I leave alone, like the "why doesn't anyone recognize Superman?" question. However, since this movie went out of it's way to really delve into Krypton more, (not only that, it has Superman ask the very question I'm asking now) I think it needed to come up with a better answer.

I NEVER bought that about Kal-El's origin period. I figured this movie would have a chance to rectify a 75 year old convenient oversight, and it failed to do so.

 

[ElMariachi]

I loved that part where Zod gives his message to earth. Thought it was creepy. I wish he could have fleshed out Zod a bit more though. There was way too much going on in this movie. Thinking back, I have a hard time sequencing how the plot played out. Way too many characters and too much jumping around in the plot.

I think they found gold with this franchise, Goyer and Snyder aren't the ones who are capable of turning gold into beautiful jewelry, if you get what I'm saying. We have a great Superman now. Give him some better material to work with in the next film. This movie was really cool but I'm thinking long term. I can tell you that if these guys try to tackle Justice League, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I didn't mind the concept of the dog thing at all. Your dog is a part of your family, and I'm sure more people than not would try to rescue theirs from a life-death situation even if that means putting themselves at risk.

My problem is how that scene was written. Martha was JUST petting the dog when the car stopped. Then then got out of the car and LOCKED THE DOG IN. she was JUST touching the damn dog. Not one of them -- all of whom knew they were getting the hell out of there -- remembered?

And to top it off, when you look at the other cars in the street all of their doors were left open except for the Kent's car. Even the car right in front of theirs that Jonathan took the kid out of. So he went back for a kid. then went back again for the dog. Just, bad writing.

 

[ElMariachi]

Costner and Crowe did a fantastic job I'm this movie. Along with Hat fields & McCoys, Costner is getting on a bit of a roll. Glad to see him doing good work again.

 

[Alienous]

• I would have tried to explain the suit. "On Krypton our hero's wore costumes like this, Kal-El. I hope that you can, in time, inspire humanity".
• I would have respected the source material a little bit more. I feel like Man of Steel suffers from the same problems as The Amazing Spiderman; "We have to do it differently"-syndrome.
• I wouldn't have turned Pa Kent into Uncle Ben, and Superman into an angsty teenager who learns that with great power comes great responsibility.
• I would have elaborated on the differences in Kryptonian and Earth culture, for instance explaining how Zod learns all the languages of Earth. Some brief exposition "I've had years, Kal-El. Learning the plights of your people, the separation. We on Krypton got rid of this years go", "Yes, Zod, but you also lost your individuality".
• Some more time at the Daily Planet (although that final line was pure class, credit to the writer of that).
• I never would have had Supes kill Zod. I know people are saying that now he could never do it again, but alternatively he has just learnt that he can use his powers to stop crime for good. It's a slippery slope, and Superman's justification for not sliding down it is weak. Not to mention that the next scene is him joking with the military, rather than a moment of contemplation in the artic.
• That make out scene seemed so out of place. Like, even Spiderman in that situation would be thinking "Eh, there's probably someone in the city who needs my help".
• The "Oh we're calling him Superman" was X-Men First Class levels of bad.

Also, did anyone get the impression that the Codex was 'goyerverse' Braniac?

 

[Techn9ne77]

2-3 killings in 75 years? For some people they imagine the core of the character to never have killed. It's their opinion and how they view the character. Neither side is going to convert the other to their viewpoint.

Also no point in debating here, all you're going to get is complaints...in the complaint thread.

People have done that with Batman as well. I don't buy into this whole idea that Superman & Batman can NEVER under any circumstance let people die or take someone out. It's like someone saying "Man a million people were falling out the sky & Superman let those five people hit the ground. I'm sorry, but that's not Superman" or "Batman was too busy saving a busload of kids from Joker & Bane shot that guy. Batman wouldn't let that happen That's not how the character is". Yes, they are superheroes, but its only so much one super being or even extremely well trained person can do to protect people. I remember people were saying that about Batman & Ras in BB. "He didn't save him". Ooook. It's far too much history & interpretation for these characters to say what they "won't do" b/c they have been written to do it over the years. And that scene wasn't necessarily like Batman in the Burton films (just random killing a henchman). It was under dire circumstances. He had to do it.

 

[The Sage]

- The pacing. Needed to be slowed down for some scenes to breathe.

- The Metropolis Mayhem. The collateral damage was immense and they didn't show Superman warning citizens or trying to keep them away. That was truly needed. Even in films like Avengers and Batman Begins in which the heroes contributed to the carnage, there's a moment that gives you some measure of relief for the citizens, like when Alfred tells Bruce after the Tumbler chase in which several police cars were damaged, that "It was a miracle no one was killed". Or in Avengers when Cap helped shuffle people out of the way. Small moment, big impact.

- Several Goyer-isms. If y'all know Goyer, you probably know what I'm talking about. David Goyer bought a lot of the issues he brought with Batman Begins. The repeating of lines, "A good death is its own reward" which was the new "You better learn to mind your surroundings". Or the constant use of saying the theme. "Hope" or "change the world", which was the new "Fear".

- Lois freely calling him "Clark" when there were people in close proximity. They likely didn't hear her, but come on! I was like, "Shut up, Lois!" And the "I'm from Kansas, I'm as American as it gets." was an unnecessary and ridiculous line. Why say that? It was to emphasize Superman's Americana obviously, but it was a dumb thing to say since the military were digging around for him. After the big battle in Smallville, you would think he would try to keep a low profile again.

David Goyer's a great ideas guy, and I would want him working on an outline, but never the actual script, just as it was done for The Dark Knight. Hopefully that will be the approach taken the next time.

 

[Techn9ne77]

One other thing: some of the complaints are valid & I enjoy reading what some people would do to change things in the film, but man, some people didn't like the film at all & just lingering on the fact. I don't know, I guess I'm the type if I hated a film, I don't spend weeks talking about hating it in forums. For example, hated X3. Don't think I've ever even made one post online in any forum about that film. Didn't care about ASM. Same thing.

There has to be something there because when Jor-El says it could happen at any time we have no way of knowing because he said it could happen in 24 hours...

I mean, would them subtitling "14 hours later" have helped? Would that really be necessary? That's what I mean by filling in the blanks. Nolan & Goyer seem to do that a lot. Do we really need to see Jor-El's being memorialized or the council having a discussion about what they're going do? Sure they could have, but the point was still there. Krypton is in trouble, it was moments before its demise, Zod & his group were imprisoned sometime before that, boom it explodes, Kal-El is sent off. Point made. Let's get on to the movie.

 

[Autonet]

I don't want subtitles, maybe another scene with the council talking afterwards, just something. Jor-El's funeral or Lara mourning? I don't require it to be beaten over my head, but there has to be something there when any time period is a possibility.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Awesome signature hopeful dreamer

I'd be high all the time too if my son let his own father die, when he had super powers.
Haha damn that tornado scene.

Okay, let's address this thing about Superman killing. No, he generally doesn't kill, but there have been multiple times in both the comics and movies in which he did.

Why does that mean I have to like it?

Seriously why do people keep using this arguement as though the only reason someone could possibly dislike that ending is because they don't know he's killed before

I didn't mind the concept of the dog thing at all. Your dog is a part of your family, and I'm sure more people than not would try to rescue theirs from a life-death situation even if that means putting themselves at risk.

My problem is how that scene was written. Martha was JUST petting the dog when the car stopped. Then then got out of the car and LOCKED THE DOG IN. she was JUST touching the damn dog. Not one of them -- all of whom knew they were getting the hell out of there -- remembered?

And to top it off, when you look at the other cars in the street all of their doors were left open except for the Kent's car. Even the car right in front of theirs that Jonathan took the kid out of. So he went back for a kid. then went back again for the dog. Just, bad writing.

Yup. Not to mention I still don't see how Clark couldn't have gotten to the dog quicker and got back quicker than JK. WITHOUT obvious public use of super powers. There was enough time. It kind of felt like JK did it at old man speed, and Clark and everyone else was just watching for AGES... Not a single person yelling 'omg get out of there!' He just stood there...

Ah the whole thing bugs me.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yup. Not to mention I still don't see how Clark couldn't have gotten to the dog quicker and got back quicker than JK. WITHOUT obvious public use of super powers. There was enough time. It kind of felt like JK did it at old man speed, and Clark and everyone else was just watching for AGES... Not a single person yelling 'omg get out of there!' He just stood there...

Ah the whole thing bugs me.

Know what's funny? I don't remember one time where Clark used super speed. Not when he's flying, just regular super speed. Faora used it in short running strikes but I can't recall Supes doing it once. Maybe he doesn't know he can run fast?

 

[hopefuldreamer]

- Lois freely calling him "Clark" when there were people in close proximity. They likely didn't hear her, but come on! I was like, "Shut up, Lois!" And the "I'm from Kansas, I'm as American as it gets." was an unnecessary and ridiculous line. Why say that? It was to emphasize Superman's Americana obviously, but it was a dumb thing to say since the military were digging around for him. After the big battle in Smallville, you would think he would try to keep a low profile again.

Yeah that bugged me too. I mean people are always complaining about how silly the disguise is and that no one figures it out... And I thought they'd make it LESS ridiculous not MORE.

I think it works if everyone just thinks Superman is this alien and would never even think he'd be hiding among us.

But if they all know he's from Kansas? It gets a bit more difficult to defend...

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Know what's funny? I don't remember one time where Clark used super speed. Not when he's flying, just regular super speed. Faora used it in short running strikes but I can't recall Supes doing it once. Maybe he doesn't know he can run fast?

Well he did super speed out the way of some plane bullets didn't he?

 

[Poni_Boy]

Well he did super speed out the way of some plane bullets didn't he?

That's why I'm asking, I honestly don't remember seeing him do it. He totally could have, I just don't remember. My reasoning is, if he didn't know he could run fast maybe that's why he didn't go grab Pa Kent. Maybe he only knew about his strength and heightened senses at that point. I dunno

I absolutely remember Faora doing it. Her fight with the soldiers was by far my favorite action set piece in the movie. Beautiful choreography. Smooth. Brutal. Well lit. Loved it.

 

[The Sage]

Know what's funny? I don't remember one time where Clark used super speed. Not when he's flying, just regular super speed. Faora used it in short running strikes but I can't recall Supes doing it once. Maybe he doesn't know he can run fast?

I thought he ran pretty fast and leapt during the oil rig scene.

 

[uniqueweasel]

Only thing I can think of at the moment, is I would of liked just a bit more story about Supermans suit.

 

[NJCaliboi]

I totally suck!! I shouldn't be in this thread before I see the movie and now after reading these posts I'm not overly jazzed to see it... Don't get me wrong will definitely check it out but now I'm not rearranging my schedule, which means I'll catch it next week instead.

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Anyone else think Martha Kent was high through the majority of the film? That's realism that I would have happily bought.

Lonely widower in the Midwest who gives into some Mary Jane. Was odd.

Lol? I did NOT get that feeling throughout the whole movie.

 

[Techn9ne77]

I don't want subtitles, maybe another scene with the council talking afterwards, just something. Jor-El's funeral or Lara mourning? I don't require it to be beaten over my head, but there has to be something there when any time period is a possibility.

Ok, I can respect that.

 

[SuperT]

I've never read or grown up with Superman really (other than I guess Smallville and the cartoons), so I went into the movie as someone that was relatively new to the character.

The only word I could use to describe it was choppy. It felt so all over the place, every time it would focus on one thing we'd bounce around to another one. The story just didn't seem like it knew what it wanted to tell or say throughout the movie. It just seemed like a bunch of scenes jumbled together.

Some of the action scenes went on waaaaaay too long. I know you want to showcase your vfx and what not but damn was I frustrated with how long some of the actions scenes were. I felt like we never slowed down to tell a story at any point in the movie.

Another thing - the relationship between Clark and Lois was so half-assed and underdeveloped. She grew feelings for him and they tried to play up the tension between the two way too much for how long the characters interacted or knew each in the movie. By the time they kissed each other in the movie I just didn't buy it at all.

Oh and I didn't buy Diane Lane as his mother but that's just because that woman must eat babies or something because no matter how much makeup they use you'll never make that woman look old.

All in all, I would give it a 6/10 - it was just nothing new there in regards to the story and the characters as a whole. It was just blah.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

Man you guys are making some great points about the movie. But one thing I haven't seen yet or heard a complaint about, is Hans Zimmer's music. OMG this guy screwed this movie up in so many places!!!! The music was awful.

I say let this guy do Batman but keep him away from Superman, PLEASE. His music was depressing in parts where it was suppose to be heroic and uplifting.

Action, ok I loved the action but personally I think he may over done it for future films. Where Singer strangled the life out of SR with hardly any action, Synder drowned us in it. My big fear about this is it will become redundant really fast in the next film if Superman squares off with Doomsday or Brainiac. How many buildings and things did Zod & Kal El destroy?

Kevin Costner should have died a natural death like Glen Ford. The tornado scene was weak and akward. No way would any of you or myself would have just stood there and let our dad die with total strangers standing around. It didn't make any sense because several people already knew what Clark could do.

Why hasn't the military, CIA, or anyone at the Daily Planet figured out Clark Kent is the alien? It seems like everybody in Smallville knows who he is. Why didn't Zod use this more to his advantage? I don't like how so many people know his identity that shoud be kept under tight wraps.

This Clark and Lois just don't have the chemistry in MOS. It reminded me so much of Anakin & Padme in AOTC, that was some of the worst chemistry and acting ever. It wasn't as bad as AOTC but it certainly felt rushed and not authentic. It made very little sense because barely knew each other.