What can DC/WB do now to move forward? Is there hope? - Part 1

[Rowsdower!]

Heh yeah. I don't give two sh**s about Booster Gold, so maybe Snyder can tackle that property.

 

[BH/HHH]

I only want Snyder to move on so new directors can put their spin on these characters. I'm really happy with Snyder's take but the movies is enough.

 

[Boy Scout]

Heh yeah. I don't give two sh**s about Booster Gold, so maybe Snyder can tackle that property.

Or even Lobo. That'd be right up his alley.

 

[Ultimate Movie-Man]

I only want Snyder to move on so new directors can put their spin on these characters. I'm really happy with Snyder's take but the movies is enough.

I'd be happy with this. I want him still involved in a producing capacity but let's see diversity in direction of each films. We already had David Ayer, regardless of your opinion on Suicide Squad, it was completely different from BvS and MoS. Hell, BvS was different from MoS.

Wonder Woman looks just different enough, I'm seeing the Dick Donner influences merged with the Snyder type of action.

Plus Joss Whedon's on board. It'd be interesting to see if they have any z-grade characters they'd pump a $10mil movie out for giving to new/up and coming filmmakers

EDIT: I would unironically and without hesitation watch a Jame Gunn Bat-Mite movie

 

[Gabe99]

Inside Warner Bros. Pictures Chief Toby Emmerich’s Vision for the Studio and DC Universe
“I don’t speak comic. I do feel like I speak motion pictures. I speak for an audience. I look and ask, ‘How does this work for a general audience?’”
TOBY EMMERICH

“Wonder Woman,” the comic-book global juggernaut about the do-gooding warrior princess, has lifted spirits around the Warner Bros. lot and reenergized the struggling DC Comics cinematic universe, which many critics and fanboys had written off. “Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice” and “Suicide Squad” may have grossed a combined $1.6 billion globally, but the consensus was they were dark, dour and creatively inert. “Wonder Woman,” with its message of female empowerment, has been a panacea, earning some of the year’s best reviews and inspiring a wave of internet memes.

“It’s a huge turnaround for [DC],” says Jeff Bock, an analyst with Exhibitor Relations. “There’s been so much hate spewed at them that people were wondering if they had it in them to make a film that people actually liked.”

The success of “Wonder Woman” comes as the movie studio is in the first months of a leadership shakeup that elevated Toby Emmerich to the position of president and chief content officer and led to the ouster of production chief Greg Silverman. As one of his first priorities after taking the job in December, Emmerich has spent much of his time immersing himself in the world of DC Comics, in an effort to help the unit better compete with its highly successful rival, Disney’s Marvel.

His learning curve has been steep.

“I don’t speak comic,” Emmerich acknowledges in his first sit-down interview since assuming his new role, a week after “Wonder Woman” took the box office by storm. “I do feel like I speak motion pictures. I speak for an audience. I look and ask, ‘How does this work for a general audience?’”

The DC team says Emmerich’s lack of comic-book knowledge isn’t an issue.

“He understands that when wea’re talking about the characters, we’re not just talking about what their powers are,” says DC Entertainment president and chief creative officer Geoff Johns. “We’re talking about who they are as people.”

Emmerich may struggle with the difference between the Dark Knight and Darkseid, but comic-book movies aren’t the reason the exec is now leading the studio’s film arm. He established himself as one of the industry’s most widely respected creative executives during an eight-year stint running Warner’s New Line Cinema. There, he primarily churned out modestly budgeted comedies and horror films, such as “We’re the Millers” and “Annabelle,” which often proved enormously profitable. Though New Line made a few pricey films — some of which worked (“San Andreas”), others that didn’t (“Jack the Giant Slayer”) — that wasn’t really Emmerich’s modus operandi. He had deep relationships with the creative community and an ability to rein in costs that made him attractive to corporate higher-ups.

“Toby came into this role having successfully run a movie studio that produced every genre, from billion-dollar franchise titles to microbudget horror films,” Warner Bros. Entertainment chairman and CEO Kevin Tsujihara says. “He’s extremely talented, well-respected and has a vision for Warner Bros. Pictures’ future, as well as a plan on how to execute on that vision.”

Emmerich’s success at finding the next big franchises will determine whether or not his tenure at the studio is a long and happy one. Warner Bros. was once the titan of Hollywood, boasting the likes of “The Lord of the Rings,” “Harry Potter” and “The Dark Knight.” Those series have reached their conclusions, and in the intervening years the studio has struggled to find new ones. The many tens of millions spent and lost by Warner Bros. on “Pan,” “The Man From U.N.C.L.E.” and this summer’s “King Arthur: Legend of the Sword” show just how difficult it can be to develop fresh hits. In the interim, Disney, with its arsenal of “Star Wars” and “Avengers” adventures, has established itself as the dominant brand in movies.

“Warners has had an uneven record,” says Matthew Harrigan, an analyst with Wunderlich Securities. “Aspirationally, they want to be the envy of all the other studios, but the implementation has been uneven. If you look at ‘Suicide Squad’ or ‘Batman v Superman,’ it’s embarrassing how bad the critical fallout was.”

Sitting in a garden patio at Warner Bros.’ Burbank headquarters and later, after the air grows crisp, in a conference room adorned with posters of studio triumphs such as “Wonder Woman” and blunders like “King Arthur,” Emmerich is eager to give the credit for the latest windfall to Johns and Jon Berg, the executives who oversee the comic-book films. He stresses that the success of “Wonder Woman” is more their doing, saying the film was deep into post-production when he took over at the studio. He believes the movie feels fresh because the “heart and humor” that director Patty Jenkins injected into the picture was a break from the downbeat superhero films that have been hitting multiplexes. “The zeitgeist of the culture, in America and many parts of the world, were ready to embrace a female superhero,” Emmerich says.

It’s too soon to credit “Wonder Woman” with shattering Hollywood’s glass ceiling for female directors, but the film did prove that there is an appetite for action films about strong women.

“I know that our competitors are going to look at the success of this movie,” he says. “People love to call Hollywood lemmings, and it’s not always unfair. I’m sure that plenty of producers and writers and studio executives are asking, ‘What the heck happened with “Wonder Woman,” and how do we get in on that action?’”

In the meantime, DC is plunging ahead with two more female-focused projects, “Gotham City Sirens,” in which Margot Robbie will reprise her “Suicide Squad” role as the demented Harley Quinn, and Joss Whedon’s “Batgirl,” which the “Avengers” writer and director urged the studio to make. There will also be more Diana Prince. Emmerich says that Jenkins is already working on a “Wonder Woman” sequel. It won’t take place in World War I, as the first film did, but it will also likely be set in the past.

“It will take place somewhere between 1917 and 2017,” Emmerich says coyly.

He’s also thinking of ways that DC can differentiate itself from Marvel projects, which tend to be family-friendly. Emmerich says he admires violent, irreverent and very adult comic-book movies such as “Logan” and “Deadpool.”

“I would be surprised if we didn’t at some point make an R-rated DC movie,” says Emmerich.

Emmerich, who prefers cardigans to power suits, isn’t the typical Hollywood executive. Perhaps it’s his upbringing: His father, Andre Emmerich, was an influential art dealer; his mother, Constance Marantz, is a concert pianist; and brother Noah has a key role as an FBI agent on “The Americans.” Emmerich comes off as more cerebral and composed than the typically flashy and hard-charging studio chief. He’s devoted to his wife and two children and tries to cook dinner and breakfast for the family on the weekends.

“Aquaman” and “The Conjuring” director James Wan says Emmerich preaches the gospel of self-improvement to friends. He convinced the filmmaker that taking cold showers has salutary benefits.

“It’s easier to partake of in the summer than the winter, but it does pep me up and keeps me going through the day,” Wan says.

Unlike other Hollywood players, Emmerich speaks at a lower decibel level, referencing film classes he took as a student at Wesleyan University, where he was a contemporary of Whedon and Michael Bay.

“He’s a strong presence,” says producer Chris Bender, who has worked with Emmerich on the likes of “We’re the Millers” and “Vacation.” “We’ve been in the trenches many times. Sometimes you’re in the test-screening phase and your movie’s getting a good score or a bad score, but he’s always had a nice, calming effect even when the situation’s tough.”

To unwind, Emmerich reads, meditates, does yoga and Pilates and plays the occasional game of tennis. He used to ride a motorcycle (but admits he’s not doing that as much these days) and he’s an amateur photographer (his first job was taking head shots of actors and musicians).

Though he’s kept a low profile since taking the job at Warner, he’s already making a mark on operations. He’s promoted Courtenay Valenti, a studio veteran, to head production and development, and he brought back Kevin McCormick, a former top Warner executive, to serve as exec VP of production and as a senior adviser. By the fall, Emmerich wants to move the Warner Bros. animation division and DC Comics into a central location with the rest of the production team.

“Culture’s influenced a lot by architecture and the space that you’re in — how you physically bump into each other,” he says. “I like conversations a lot more than meetings. The closer people are and the more ebb and flow that there is, I think the better it is.”

DC may be commanding the bulk of his attention, but Emmerich is also looking beyond the Justice League. He’s confident in “Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them,” the “Harry Potter” spinoff that made $814 million globally last year, anticipates four more “wizarding” films and believes that the series will build a bigger audience as it continues. He’s also bullish on “Jungle Book,” a long-gestating motion-capture version of the Rudyard Kipling stories that’s being directed by Andy Serkis, the actor behind Gollum in “LOTR.” Many in Hollywood have questioned the wisdom of moving forward with the film given Disney’s adaptation of the same material became a nearly $1 billion worldwide hit in 2016, but Emmerich says that Serkis’ vision is unique.

“I’m very curious how the world embraces it,” he says. “It is based on the same source material that the Disney movie is based on, but man, is it a different interpretation. If Rudyard Kipling saw this movie, he would more readily recognize it as an adaptation of his book.”

These days, most studios are making fewer films but placing bigger bets on movies about costumed vigilantes or big-screen versions of toy lines. Despite the production slowdown among its competitors, Warner intends to release a wide array of films. The plan is for the studio to back 18 to 22 titles a year, roughly double what Disney produces. Despite being burned on the likes of “King Arthur,” Emmerich believes that Warners must continue to be aggressive and take chances, knowing that big swings can sometimes lead to big misses. He’s also wary of prizing well-known brands above compelling stories.

“There are things that everybody’s heard of, like Kleenex tissues,” says Emmerich. “Everyone knows what it is, but I’m not looking to make the Kleenex movie. Just because they’ve heard of it doesn’t make it a good idea.”

 

[smallville fan]

Bringing this thread back with all the recent news regarding Affleck etc etc happening.

 

[writer0327]

I just can't help but feel that all of these recent announcements, Batman not connected to the DCEU, Scorsese's Joker origin film, and a separate Joker and Harley film, are all a reaction to the news that came out about JL being "unwatchable" before the Joss Whedon reshoots. It's almost like WB/DC needed to divert our attention elsewhere so people would stop dishing on JL.

 

[vantheman77]

Build a franchise on Wonder Woman with her box office success.

 

[Gabe99]

THR AUGUST 23, 2017:
DC's Movies Are Finally Embracing Their Destiny

Warner Bros. is now developing filmmaker-driven projects that won't be connected to its larger shared universe, something that's been happening in the comics for decades.

While everyone — myself included — was distracted by the thought of a Joker origin movie, there was another piece of news in Tuesday's story that Todd Phillips is working on a movie about the Batman villain. Warner Bros. is creating a new label for movies featuring DC characters outside of its main shared universe.

The notion of a boutique DC films imprint that allows filmmakers to play with characters from the comic publisher without having to deal with the continuity (or cast) of other movies is certainly something that fits in with the history of the company, which has told stories outside of its central timeline for decades under a variety of conceits and publishing initiatives. How else to explain stories from the 1950s where Superman and Lois Lane were a married couple, from the 1970s where Superman and Batman's teenage sons tried — and, for the most part, failed — to be rebellious, or from the 1990s, where irresponsible superheroes almost caused the end of the world? (Well, okay, the Lois and Superman one was really just a dream; it'd happen for real in 1996, of course.)

Those comic book stories — and countless other "imaginary tales," Elseworld stories or whatever other branding they wore at the time — demonstrate the value in the idea of pulling characters outside the larger shared universe and giving them a chance to exist independently, following a particular artistic vision and being allowed the closure that would otherwise be denied them. As a concept in and of itself, there's a lot of potential in giving creators the chance to create their "own" versions of iconic characters and taking it as far as they want, as the ongoing success of Frank Miller's 1986 The Dark Knight Returns bears out.

That said, there's no denying that such a thing could be confusing to the audience as it's being rolled out. How can Warners correctly delineate which movies are part of the Justice League shared universe, and which ones aren't, to a potential market who isn't following online chatter about upcoming releases? Does such a thing even matter, or will viewers just think, "Oh, it's a different guy playing the Joker this time, that's cool"?

It could be argued that this confusion over what does and doesn't "count" as part of canon is in keeping with DC tradition. Unlike Marvel, which has made such an effort to tell audiences that everything happening on a screen is happening in the same fictional universe that it adopted the phrase "It's all connected" as a tagline, DC's onscreen efforts have been far more diffuse. Sure, Arrow, The Flash, Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl all cross over, but Gotham and other television shows are entirely disconnected. And the current Warner Bros. big-screen efforts are disconnected from the TV shows (whereas Marvel shows like Agents of SHIELD and Daredevil take place in the same universe as the movies). The Flash played by TV's Grant Gustin is a separate, but equal, version of the character as played by the film's Ezra Miller, just as Tyler Hoechlin's Superman isn't Henry Cavill's, and audiences seem to be able to keep that straight in their heads easily enough.

Perhaps that's because DC's comic book mythology has long played with the concept of multiple variations on the same character co-existing alongside each other. Justice League of America No. 21 — published in 1963, just seven years after editor Julius Schwartz reused the name and gimmick of 1940s hero the Flash for a new character — introduced the idea of a multiverse filled with alternate, parallel worlds, allowing for endless variations on an idea to be published depending on creator whims.

That such an idea would end up, decades later, so confusing for new readers — Which Earth did each comic take place on? What happened when creators forgot and misidentified worlds? — that an entirely separate comic would have to be created to simplify matters couldn't have been foreseen at the time, but should, perhaps, serve as a warning to Warner Bros. moving forward. The title of that comic, in fact, could be considered a sign of things to come if quality control and strong oversight aren't exercised on future movie projects, both inside and outside this new creator-led imprint: Crisis on Infinite Earths. Or, at least, "Crisis in multiple multiplexes."

 

[Frodo]

I'm fine with the idea of one shot elseworlds type films like the Joker origin. There are lots of genres they could use to exploit their library of characters for solo one shot films.

You could have a Lives of The Demon film which is sort of a Lawrence of Arabia meets Interview with a Vampire sweeping Epic spanning centuries about Ras Al Ghul, and how a good man becomes a super villain.

You could actually have a decent Catwoman film which is a heist film with one big score which is along the lines of Entrapment and The Thomas Crown affair with Batman playing a similar role to Vader in Rogue one, i.e. a menace who's feared a referred to, but who only has a couple appearances in the film.

You could do a Superman for All Seasons adaptation which gives the audience and fans the light beacon of hope version that they always wanted.

 

[smallville fan]

I'm giving this thread a bump in light of recent events

 

[ManWithNoName18]

Do what they should have done in the first place, follow the marvel method. Build up main JL characters with solo movies then do a team up.

The last word on JL 2 was that it was getting pushed back for a solo Batman, and that Snyder was expected to direct.

But man, after this 3 chances to get it right, i'm not seeing Snyder returning to any DCEU property

 

[BH/HHH]

I still don’t think you need a solo for every character. I honestly believe if they had made JL Mortal back in 2011(?) then that film would have been a success.

Marvels method is most successful yes but it isn’t the only method. Personally I think they should have taken a little more time with an extra movie. I’ve often said that BvS should have been two films.

It’s clear looking back now that the majority of people didn’t want the films we got (bar Wonder Woman) so hindsight I would have done some things differently. People who know me know that I’ve actually said this before but BvS should have been two movies. The first film should have been all about Batman vs Superman with Lex pulling some strings of course. Infact I would have had Lex Snr in the film as a traditional Lex but had him died with Lex Jnr vowing to get revenge in the sequel. Then you do a proper Batman and Superman team up film that introduces Wonder Woman deals with the death of Superman etc. More time would have allowed them to set up the future leaguers better too. I wouldn’t have had all of them introduced in this film in terms of a lather story but I’d have probably done it differently rather than the video files. The whole film could be about the meta human theory. I always liked that rumour that has Aquaman in a tank caught by Lex Luthor. So maybe you could have had an idea like that in it. Maybe had Vic Stone in the film as Vic Stone and maybe it’s during the Doomsday battle that he’s injured. Anyway I’m rambling now but I definitely believe that you don’t need a bunch of solos before a team up film. You just need to execute a vision properly.

I don’t know where DC goes from here. They can’t just end the DCEU wait a few years and then start again. Wonder Woman was a massive success so they ain’t giving up on Gal. Batman is well Batman they’ll always make Batman movies. Aquaman is coming next year too. I guess they could focus solely on solo movies from here on out but I feel like that’s a cop out in some ways. Fans want a shared universe.

I say all this as someone whose a fan or most of what we’ve gotten so far and I loved Justice League. Man of Steel is still one of my favourite movies of all-time too I’ll never change my mind on that.

 

[ludovica]

Start with casting Daniel Wu as Bruce Wayne (Wang?).
It could turn the race swapping on its head: do not address it whatsoever, so who wants to see the series as in continuity can but the general audience will see it as something trying to be starkly different. As it should.
Daniel Wu is a real world Batman, build from there.

 

[bapi]

I still don’t think you need a solo for every character. I honestly believe if they had made JL Mortal back in 2011(?) then that film would have been a success.

Marvels method is most successful yes but it isn’t the only method. Personally I think they should have taken a little more time with an extra movie. I’ve often said that BvS should have been two films.

It’s clear looking back now that the majority of people didn’t want the films we got (bar Wonder Woman) so hindsight I would have done some things differently. People who know me know that I’ve actually said this before but BvS should have been two movies. The first film should have been all about Batman vs Superman with Lex pulling some strings of course. Infact I would have had Lex Snr in the film as a traditional Lex but had him died with Lex Jnr vowing to get revenge in the sequel. Then you do a proper Batman and Superman team up film that introduces Wonder Woman deals with the death of Superman etc. More time would have allowed them to set up the future leaguers better too. I wouldn’t have had all of them introduced in this film in terms of a lather story but I’d have probably done it differently rather than the video files. The whole film could be about the meta human theory. I always liked that rumour that has Aquaman in a tank caught by Lex Luthor. So maybe you could have had an idea like that in it. Maybe had Vic Stone in the film as Vic Stone and maybe it’s during the Doomsday battle that he’s injured. Anyway I’m rambling now but I definitely believe that you don’t need a bunch of solos before a team up film. You just need to execute a vision properly.

I don’t know where DC goes from here. They can’t just end the DCEU wait a few years and then start again. Wonder Woman was a massive success so they ain’t giving up on Gal. Batman is well Batman they’ll always make Batman movies. Aquaman is coming next year too. I guess they could focus solely on solo movies from here on out but I feel like that’s a cop out in some ways. Fans want a shared universe.

I say all this as someone whose a fan or most of what we’ve gotten so far and I loved Justice League. Man of Steel is still one of my favourite movies of all-time too I’ll never change my mind on that.

Honestly both Miller's Justice League and Petersen's Batman Vs Superman would have built better foundations than Snyder (+ Ayer).

 

[Batmannerism]

Just saw JL.

Here's how I rank the DCEU films

Wonder Woman > Man of Steel > Justice League > Batman v Superman > Suicide Squad.

So while I feel JL is a bounce-back from B v S, it's not great - our favourite heroes deserve better.

There is hope - mostly because the Superman bits in the film were pretty good (and WW was great, and so was Flash).

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

My personal ranking would be Man of Steel> Wonder Woman> BvS: UC > Justice League> Suicide Squad.

 

[Tg11]

After seeing Justice League last night I would say there is still hope for the DC Universe but at the same time it all comes down to timing. The issue I would say for DC would be Zack Snyder. If they can at least get rid of him then I think the DC Universe as a whole will be fine but I will say that the DCEU for its credit does have great stories.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I still don’t think you need a solo for every character. I honestly believe if they had made JL Mortal back in 2011(?) then that film would have been a success.

Yeah you dont need a solo for every character, not even Marvel gave every character in Avengers a solo but trying to introduce the audience to majority of your cast probably isn't the smartest thing with these kinds of movies.

At least in this movie, it would've benefited from introducing Aquaman beforehand.

 

[Tg11]

Yeah I agree not every DC character should have a solo standalone film but then again most people have no idea who some of the heroes even are so there is that to consider. I will give you this that it is best to introduce the heroes but to do it slowly in a way that it does not feel rushed and also if you are going to include CGI in your films do not do it in the sense that it feels like it is overdone.

 

[BH/HHH]

Honestly both Miller's Justice League and Petersen's Batman Vs Superman would have built better foundations than Snyder (+ Ayer).

I don’t know about Petersen’s BvS, the script was awful. JL Mortal though had a decent script and I actually think the young cast idea was a good idea.

 

[Jonwo]

In the long term, JL will be seen as the last of the old regime and they’ll move on to the solo DC films. None of the people involved with the last few films are involved with the next couple of films apart from exec producing WW2, Aquaman is being made by the same team as The Conjuring and likewise Shazam shares the same producer too.

 

[Loki882]

Yeah you dont need a solo for every character, not even Marvel gave every character in Avengers a solo but trying to introduce the audience to majority of your cast probably isn't the smartest thing with these kinds of movies.

At least in this movie, it would've benefited from introducing Aquaman beforehand.

Yeah Aquaman should have probably gotten his own movie first. They could have probably gotten away with just introducing Flash and Cyborg in JL. But trying to do THREE of them in a movie that's not even two hours long (if you don't include the credits) was too much imo.

 

[ludovica]

Keep the actors who want to remain, even Eisenberg, except Leto, fire him.

Then rehaul the costumes, significant departure from DCEU to DCFU.
Make Aquaman and the Flash costumes lighter.
Redesign Cyborg from scratch.
Give us a comic book accurate Joker.

That's just the looks.

Take your time with the screenplays.


Drop the Elseworlds or forgo any semblance of shared world whatsoever.
One or the other. Commit to a gameplan.
Take all the time you need.

And call up some comics writers who really know DC's universe, love the characters and have real literary chops.
Sorry, Geoff Johns is a far cry from that. Call up Waid. Maybe even Loeb.

 

[Steamteck]

I say all this as someone whose a fan or most of what we’ve gotten so far and I loved Justice League. Man of Steel is still one of my favourite movies of all-time too I’ll never change my mind on that.

I agree some of my favorites. I feel they should just stay the course they seem to be hitting their stride with Wonder Woman and Justice league. Word of mouth should be good for Justice league with an 85% audience score seems to me.

I think things will pick up if WB can just stop being reactive gutless wonders.