What is DC Entertainment doing? What is their plan? - Part 1

[akfj]

Incidentally, DC has no control over any potential movie franchise.

Basically, yeah.

 

[Tobias]

One of them WILL be huge. I think of this as pure logic. Not every hero will fail, it's impossible.

Very likely. Huge - maybe not in Batman numbers but huge like IM.

WB has tried to turn 3 of it's big 6 DC characters into franchises.

Batman was a massive success while Superman and GL couldn't make it as stand-alone franchises.

That's 1 out of 3. Not bad. Especially when there are 3 still untried as franchises. Flash, WW and Aquaman. Very likely one of these at least will be able to make it as a successful franchise.

Problem is WB isn't trying. Instead of another Superman film they should be doing Flash or one of the other 2 big 6. The studio needs to move forward with their DC properties.

It's like there is no plan aside from the long-term Batman plan.

 

[Lord]

I've been reading Secret origin and while the rest of Geoff Johns Green Lantern books form an epic space opera maybe they could try a 60s space look instead of trying to make it the next Star Wars

 

[Airwings]

Problem is WB isn't trying. Instead of another Superman film they should be doing Flash or one of the other 2 big 6. The studio needs to move forward with their DC properties.

You are right! I don't understand why they are yet trying with Superman. Same thing all over again. The previous one wasn't well-recieved either.
WB can't take in the fact that they have had their Superman successes already. Decades ago, but still. Supes should not have been touched after Reeve. At least not until the other DC heroes have been tested. The money they put on Superman Returns by Bryan Singer could easily have been used for another character. Same thing now with Zac Snyder and Man of Steel.
The question is: what could have been done instead of SR? Either Wonder Woman or The Flash, in my opinion. Maybe WW because she is the biggest of these two.
I don't think the world was quite ready for Lantern or Aqua back then.
To replace MoS? Hard to say, but that depends on which one they made five years ago. I can only say it should not be the same hero. But if this year's GL was Flash instead, then the replacement for MoS would have turned out to be Green Lantern.

But a superhero film 2006 should not have been with Singer involved. And the one to come out 2013 should happen without Snyder. Maybe even the same with Martin Campbell? These heroes need other directors, I think.
And after 2013, we could expect Aquaman as the next big blockbuster... and even Hawkman further down the line.

But this would only have happened in a perfect world.
​

 

[The Batman]

...WB not focusing on making a Superman film is very, very, very, very silly idea.

You guys talk about building a sucessful film franchise/universe, but your main idea is to leave out a heavy hitter to build a second tier character?

Seriously?

Cause its not like they can't make a new Superman ALONG WITH a Flash film.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong. Aquaman or Hawkman would totally cover the bank a Superman movie would've made.

 

[Airwings]

The Batman: The problem is that they DON'T make "Superman along with a Flash film". They only make Superman, and that's it. Green Lantern was just a side-step, nothing more.
What if WB could lay all the focus and all the money on a second-tier character that doesn't have a string of films behind but is new and un-tested?
A heavy -hitter is a character that make lots of success with its films? Who can say that Wonder Woman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman or Hawkman will never BE heavy-hitters? If we don't try, we will never know.

Go outside the box, think new and fresh, try something else instead of re-using the same thing over and over and over and over.again.

 

[The Batman]

.....But what if WB wisely decided to make Superman AND someone else?

You know...like they've been trying to do. Unless all those script treatments for Flash, WW, etc. were all imaginary.

I'm not even gonna bring the vertigo films into account...cause then people go on the ridculous "Those dont count" argument.

 

[Airwings]

Vertigo films don't count. This is only about the classic superhero properties and nothing else.

 

[The Batman]

Hahahahahahahah!

I think I'm done. I didn't know there were stipulations on this discussion. LOL.

 

[Airwings]

.....But what if WB wisely decided to make Superman AND someone else?

You know...like they've been trying to do. Unless all those script treatments for Flash, WW, etc. were all imaginary.

Strange that they have got TWO Superman scripts they decided to make into big films, but still no Flash or Wonder Woman yet.
It's obvious which characters who are their priorities: mostly Batman, but a great deal of Superman too. The others: not so much.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Maybe, you know, nobody's come to them with a Wonder Woman or Aquaman or Hawkman idea they want to make into a movie? Like how David Goyer and Chris Nolan came to them with their Superman idea, or how Berlanti & Company brought Green Lantern to them and got Flash off of that? Marvel keeps pumping out superhero movies because they HAVE TO. That's all they have. WB waits until something they think is good enough gets pitched to them for the character.

 

[The Batman]

Why even bother making sense, highflying? Clearly, DC only cares about Batman and Superman, despite the fact that they're still trying to write a Flash script. Despite the fact that before it flopped, they wanted GL to be a major film franchise. Despite the fact that they've made Vertigo movies...which DO COUNT by the way. PEople only say they dont to justify their whining over a lack of WW or Flash films.

I'm not saying WB doesent have its problems. But saying they ONLY care about Supes and Bats its a kneejerk, outdated, stupid argument.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Very likely. Huge - maybe not in Batman numbers but huge like IM.

WB has tried to turn 3 of it's big 6 DC characters into franchises.

Batman was a massive success while Superman and GL couldn't make it as stand-alone franchises.

That's 1 out of 3. Not bad. Especially when there are 3 still untried as franchises. Flash, WW and Aquaman. Very likely one of these at least will be able to make it as a successful franchise.

Espically when you consider that 2 of them were poorly written and 1 of those 2 didnt have the best cast..or well Lois.

 

[Tobias]

Why even bother making sense, highflying? Clearly, DC only cares about Batman and Superman, despite the fact that they're still trying to write a Flash script. Despite the fact that before it flopped, they wanted GL to be a major film franchise. Despite the fact that they've made Vertigo movies...which DO COUNT by the way. PEople only say they dont to justify their whining over a lack of WW or Flash films.

I'm not saying WB doesent have its problems. But saying they ONLY care about Supes and Bats its a kneejerk, outdated, stupid argument.

This is true and it's pointless to compare Marvel with WB.

WB has many other fish to fry outside of it's DC staple of potential films.

I reiterate - until WB pulls a "Marvel" and creates an independent subsidiary studio to do DC films a la Marvel, there won't be a whole lot of DC superhero flicks coming out.

Such a studio would have the right to do any DC character except for Batman which I'd guess WB would keep to itself.

WB might give it 10 years to prove itself or the plug would be pulled.

Marvel studios was under that very gun when it made IM. If IM had done poorly Marvel Studios could have folded. But the pressure brought the best out in everyone involved and IM is one of the big 3 now along with Batman and Spiderman.

A DC focused studio just might rise to the challenge when under the same kind of gun. Careful in what it made, who it hired to write and direct and how it spent the money it raised. Marvel is said to be very frugal with it's budgets while, as with SR and GL, WB seems to be willing to spend anything but not hold it's producers accountable for how the money is spent. The paradox is Marvel is making really good films on smaller budgets.

The DCE model isn't working. What it will take for WB to realize this and set up a separate studio who knows. I think Avengers, which looks awesone in the stuff released so far, could be the trigger. Especially if it does better than TDKR which I think seems increasingly likely.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I think the problem is, and I'm no expert by any means, is that DCE and WB just for some reason doesn't seem to care. It seems like a general sense of apathy. They have so many characters with so many storytelling possibilities, but WB will only try to use guaranteed money makers. Their should be a DCE film studio that actually gets to make an interconnected universe, now that it seems the norm, people will look for these little nods. The DCE studios should be given a budget of no more than $150 million, and they should do the big name characters like the big 7. And then WB can make the smaller films like Lucifer, Swamp Thing, Sandman, or Hellblazer. I have no problem with WB apparently going ahead with Green Lantern 2, making $200 million when you've made a genuinely bad movie is nothing to snuff at, it just doesn't justify the immense budget. The problem with the apparent layout of DCE is you've got guys like Geoff Johns in charge, he can write damn good comics, but when it comes to smaller condensed materials, like movies, his nostalgic fanw*nking method of decompressed storytelling just doesn't fit. The first order of business would be:

a) hire a director who actually wants to make this movie.

b) Director hires a guy like Geoff Johns/ David Goyer/ Grant Morrison for a story draft.

c) Hire a good scriptwriter to actually write a movie that is coherent and makes you care for the characters and their plight.

I know you can't refer to their model for everything, but it works great in the Batman series and tbh, I can't see any possible faults with it.

 

[Docker2.0]

Hawkman could be a great character on film IF handle correctly, you can't just go "well the film will suck cause he's not Batman" or "SR sucked and GL bombed." Ok so they dropped the ball on their own properties including the fact that the characters are in no-way-whatsoever in the same universe, which I hope they rectify with MOS that is if Nolan has enough common sense to do the right thing. All of DC characters at one time or another have had a great story because of the team of writers and artist. WB just need to get the right writers, actors and most importantly directors. I really could care less about the ammount of money that a film makes: TDK made a billion dollars, that's great but WB still is banking on the same character and that shows that they are not willing to take a chance on another character (excluding GL/MOS). Marvel does IM, IM2, Hulk, Thor, Cap and the Avengers while connecting the dots here and there to make the Avengers. Marvel at least is doing it in a period of at least 5 years. WB started with Batman Begins in 2005, TDK, 2008, GL 2011, TDKR 2012, and MOS 2012 (I think), yet no JL or WW, Aquaman, nor Flash.

When will they start?.......

Dude I never said Hawkman will bomb because SR or TDK. I said if WB was smart they'd tie them together with TDKR or something due to the success of the Nolan series. GL would have made more for that reason. As stated, I'm a huge Marvel zombie but I'd be lying if I didn't say the JLA wouldn't make more than an Avengers movie if done right. But do to WB/DC track record, they don't treat their superheroes right, except Batman so why not tie them all together? Again, you can quote me but I get the feeling that MOS is not going to make more than Thor because he hasn't had really any kind of exposure the last couple of years with the exception of.........you guessed it, Batman: Brave and Bold. If you look at DC superhero movies, with the exception of Batman, none of them have performed well. Just saying I hope they do well because it's better for competition but right now, it's kind of one sided on Marvel's side.

 

[The Sage]

Vertigo films don't count. This is only about the classic superhero properties and nothing else.

I'd say anything under DC's umbrella--including Vertigo--counts. Though I do want preference on the DC's main guys.

 

[jmc]

I think the problem is, and I'm no expert by any means, is that DCE and WB just for some reason doesn't seem to care. It seems like a general sense of apathy. They have so many characters with so many storytelling possibilities, but WB will only try to use guaranteed money makers. Their should be a DCE film studio that actually gets to make an interconnected universe, now that it seems the norm, people will look for these little nods. The DCE studios should be given a budget of no more than $150 million, and they should do the big name characters like the big 7. And then WB can make the smaller films like Lucifer, Swamp Thing, Sandman, or Hellblazer. I have no problem with WB apparently going ahead with Green Lantern 2, making $200 million when you've made a genuinely bad movie is nothing to snuff at, it just doesn't justify the immense budget. The problem with the apparent layout of DCE is you've got guys like Geoff Johns in charge, he can write damn good comics, but when it comes to smaller condensed materials, like movies, his nostalgic fanw*nking method of decompressed storytelling just doesn't fit. The first order of business would be:

a) hire a director who actually wants to make this movie.

b) Director hires a guy like Geoff Johns/ David Goyer/ Grant Morrison for a story draft.

c) Hire a good scriptwriter to actually write a movie that is coherent and makes you care for the characters and their plight.

I know you can't refer to their model for everything, but it works great in the Batman series and tbh, I can't see any possible faults with it.

A 'DC Studios' is never going to happen because at the end of the day it's still going to be big brother Warner Bros who will ultimately decide what's in the best interest for them. I don't think WB don't care, they just don't have to rely on superheroes to make a successful film, they've got their hands in many jars, conversely Marvel is solely about superheroes - that's it. As has been mentioned a million times if the popularity of superheroes suddenly died tomorrow Marvel Studios would cease to exist, WB would continue on without batting an eyelid.

 

[Docker2.0]

Yeah but Disney would thrive as well. I understand what you are saying about WB but Disney is in the exact same situation and they are taking full advantage of the superhero boom. I know they bought Marvel studios out but they did not hinder them at all. Matter of fact, you can see them really crank out the Marvel related characters a lot more, which I didn't think was possible given how many movies Marvel puts out a year. Noone is blaming DCE because quite honestly, it's only so much they can do without WB getting to involved but the "WB has so much more they can do besides superheroes" is just an excuse. They just seem to put everything in Batman, meaning they do have an interest in superheroes but just that one. If they are going to put everything in Batman, I suggest a Brave and the Bold approach, let him team up with other heroes, even in film so they can branch off. This way a JLA movie doesn't have to be done right now, but it could surely help a Flash or even WW get off the ground. By the time a JLA movie gets made,the genre would have passed DC/WB by.

 

[akfj]

I understand what you are saying about WB but Disney is in the exact same situation and they are taking full advantage of the superhero boom. I know they bought Marvel studios out but they did not hinder them at all.

They're not the same situation, at all. Disney purchased Marvel Comics which came along with it a self-functioning independent film studio. WB purchased only a comics company in DC Comics 20+ years ago that wasn't in the business to make films, and they haven't created an independent film studio for them to do so either in all that time.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Neal McDonough on Green Arrow.

Finally, the Green Arrow is my favorite superhero of all time and I thought you were perfectly cast to voice him in the DC Showcase Animated short film that you worked on. I also think you would be a perfect choice to play him in a live action film, has there ever been any serious discussion about that? Is that something you would be interested in doing?

McDonough: Yeah that (animated short) was awesome wasn’t it? Yeah we talked about a live action version but unfortunately the other two green movies (Green Hornet, and Green Lantern) may have put a stop to it, who knows? We’re not sure. But Green Arrow is a character that is just so funny, and has such a dry sense of humor but is still a bad ass at the same time. I think of all the green superheroes, and now offense but even Hulk included, I think there is something about Green Arrow being such a smart ass and yet such a big tough guy. He only uses arrows but the way he uses those arrows is pretty amazing. I think it would be an awesome film to do and ultimately hopefully we’ll get around to doing it.

http://www.iamrogue.com/news/interv...ap-2-nick-fury-justified-and-green-arrow.html

 

[Docker2.0]

They're not the same situation, at all. Disney purchased Marvel Comics which came along with it a self-functioning independent film studio. WB purchased only a comics company in DC Comics 20+ years ago that wasn't in the business to make films, and they haven't created an independent film studio for them to do so either in all that time.

It kind of is though. I know what you are saying that Marvel was already doing it's thing but so were the Muppets and when Disney bought them out, they kind of disappeared but now are making a comeback, maybe a little to late but whatever. Disney is going to improve on the Marvel brand, you can bet an Egg Mcmuffin on it! WB is going to continue to put out Batman no matter what. And I'm not really knocking them because he is their money maker. But I honestly don't know what WB defines as bomb. SR, though it wasn't a blockbuster, was far from a bomb to. I know it cost a ton to make but that was Singer's fault wasting money on crazy crap. I honestly think MOS is going to suffer from the Hulk syndrome when the last film was made not to far away from it and the taste is still in people's mouths, despite it being a reboot. But we'll see. I think WB is sitting on money makers now that Harry Potter is done and don't have a clue where to go. Put it this way: If WB had Marvel and Disney had DC, do you think we'd be having this discussion? Heck no! We'd probably have a JLA film by now, working on a sequel as well as the Green Arrow film that should/could have been made for less than $50M but whatever.

 

[Tobias]

But I honestly don't know what WB defines as bomb. SR, though it wasn't a blockbuster, was far from a bomb to. I know it cost a ton to make but that was Singer's fault wasting money on crazy crap. .

I think WB doesn't place much value in it's DC properties unless they can do mage-numbersa like Batman or Ironman. 400 million isn't good enough for them and I am not sure 500 million would be.

The problem is there are maybe only 3 A list solo franchises. Batman, Spiderman and Ironman. It's not easy to crack the 600 million mark. It may be that no other superhero film aside from these 3 can make the mega-numbers. Superman and GL proved not to be A list franchises and it is possible there won't be any others among the yet as untried DC characters. 600 mil is a steep climb.

Marvel has no problem with this. They value the A and B list franchises. Thor is getting sequels and Cap is too and it didn't even crack 400 million. If it were DC these two wouldn't be getting sequels.

 

[Docker2.0]

Actually Thor did crack $400M, and made almost $450M
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thor.htm

Cap.....................not so much but I feel what you mean. You see Marvel taking more attention to their characters, A, B, or C..........possibly even D(hello Blade!)but you just don't see that with DC/WB.

 

[Tobias]

Actually Thor did crack $400M, and made almost $450M
http://boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=thor.htm

Cap.....................not so much but I feel what you mean. You see Marvel taking more attention to their characters, A, B, or C..........possibly even D(hello Blade!)but you just don't see that with DC/WB.

I should have been clearer. Thor indeed cracked 400 million - it was Cap that didn't. Plus FF looks like it will get another shot and it made less than Cap. Isn't GR getting a sequel too - it didn't even crack 200 million. None of these from Thor to GR would have had a shot at a sequel if they had been made by WB.

It's two different worlds WB vs Marvel. It's frustrating for DC fans but it is what it is.

I am not sure that aside from Batman any DC superhero can deliver the numbers WB wants.

JL - now that is a different story. It could do 600 million easily. it's why I'm so hot on WB doing a JL series along with the rebooted Batman.