The Dark Knight Rises What's Joker up too?

[Dr.]

The "too" in the thread title is a misspelling.

 

[Micromind]

Joker won't be happy to know that Batman has died.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

Joker won't be happy to know that Batman has died.

I'd like to imagine him in some sort of catatonic state until he has been made aware of something regarding Batman that, if you will, re-triggers his degenerate personality. Like Joker in Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns.

 

[deadshot daquir]

This is one of my gripes with the movie. I know Nolan took Heath's death hard but it's kinda dis respectful to the fans of Batman and the movies and to Heath himself to NOT acknowledge his fantastic performance in the previous movie. I mean Dent and Rachel gets referenced why not Joker,Batman's defining villian? The could have simply said Joker was transferred out of Gotham city to another prison or something like that. Just not mentioning him at all was a stupid idea. He played a BIG part in Bruce retiring in the first place.

i agree, i don't think that was right, by not mentioning him at all

especially when joker essentially defeated batman and bruce wayne

philosophically, he defeated the purpose of batman , as gotham was free from major criminals, and enjoyed relative peace and prosperity

mentally, he drove bruce wayne into depression (as bruce, his parents died. as batman, rachel and ally dent died)

physically, he pushed batman to his limits as batman's strength had no effect (batman's final encounter w/ two-face at the construction site prob contributed to his injury and subsequent lack of conditioning)

all this meant that batman was ill-prepared to fight bane, and joker basically set him up to fail

having a line such as "....bane's not as evil as the joker, but he'll still fail at his plan" would've been good

 

[CJ]

marvelanddcfan,

Oh my gosh. Amazing. I'd have had a heart attack if that happened in the movie.

Your video actually makes me hate TDKR even more, becuase of what COULD have been. Imagine Joker taking out Talia and Bane, then using the bomb for his own needs.

TDKR would have been so amazing if Heath were still with us. =(

 

[Pennyworth]

Oh, and here's my latest idea for a potential Joker cameo that would've rocked the movie. Don't know how long it'll stay up on youtube, but hope you get to see it anyhow.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuDAPb4XLGM

- M&DC

Wow - This is great...and at the same time saddening to think of what will never be. Well done man.

 

[marvelanddcfan]

Thanks so much everybody. I personally believe if I could edit that video together, using scenes and mixed audio bits from TDK, and make SO MANY PEOPLE HAPPY, that Nolan could've definitely used archive footage or audio bytes to make a very simple posthumous cameo.

I think it would've honored Heath, instead of disrespected him, as many people believe.

But of course, Nolan probably didn't want to risk bringing up controversy or lawsuits from Heath's family.. but still, that shouldn't have stopped him from at least mentioning the Joker.

Honestly the Joker's absence+the ending with Blake inheriting the cave just makes me want to see more films. Unfortunately, we're not getting any.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

But of course, Nolan probably didn't want to risk bringing up controversy or lawsuits from Heath's family.. but still, that shouldn't have stopped him from at least mentioning the Joker.

Film footage is owned by the studio, regardless of who is on it. A lawsuit would have been dismissed by any judge.

 

[marvelanddcfan]

Film footage is owned by the studio, regardless of who is on it. A lawsuit would have been dismissed by any judge.

Then i guess Nolan's sole reason for no Joker was to maintain respect.. but as I said earlier, i think it was disrespect NOT to include him. But meh, that's just my opinion.. his gesture does make sense.

 

[Demon Hunter]

I guess I'm the only one that wouldn't have liked to see the Joker in TDKR. He had his time in TDK, why not give room to something fresh?

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Two-Face had his time in The Dark Knight. He was seen and brought up many times.
Ra's Al Ghul had his time in Batman Begins. He had a brand new scene and was mentioned many times.
Scarecrow had his time in Batman Begins he had a new scene in The Dark Knight and two in The Dark Knight Rises.

Was any of that not fresh?

 

[Demon Hunter]

Yeah but Joker killing Bane is a little to much don't you think?

 

[Roose Bolton]

Bane would quite easily kill Joker.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I wouldn't have had Joker kill Bane, but there isn't a reason, from a narrative perspective why he shouldn't have been included in the film while every other villain from the series was seen. I'd have rather not seen them at all, given Joker wasn't seen.

And yes, Bane could kill Joker, just like he could kill Catwoman. Joker ]could kill Bane. But yeah, he shouldn't have.

 

[shauner111]

Bane wouldnt see Joker with a gun to the back of his head. In a quick moment, he kills Bane, says a line to Batman who is in shock, Catwoman busts through the place and scares him off. He laughs his way out of City Hall and vanishes. Batman/Catwoman have no time but to get to the task of stopping Talia and the bomb. Catwoman grabs the batpod and rides it down the stairs. The plot continues as seen in the movie/script.

 

[Demon Hunter]

So you're okay with Bane dying but would rather let Joker escape?

I agree with Nolan's decision to leave Joker out of it. If Heath was alive there could've been some flashbacks or even a cameo but in the current situation it would've felt disrespectful, in my opinion.

 

[shauner111]

Yes.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

So you're okay with Bane dying but would rather let Joker escape?

I agree with Nolan's decision to leave Joker out of it. If Heath was alive there could've been some flashbacks or even a cameo but in the current situation it would've felt disrespectful, in my opinion.

I can see why Chris Nolan would have felt uncomfortable doing it. Heath became his friend and after he died, Chris still had to work with Heath's scenes for 6 months.

But disrespectful? I don't think so. I think not acknowledging Heath's contribution to the series is more disrespectful, Nolan himself said it was something Heath was very proud of. The character is more bigger than Heath, and I feel, Chris Nolan should have honoured both his own work as well as Heath's by including probably the defining character of his series.

Like I said, I can understand why he did, and it was pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don't. I just feel he should have gone the other way.

 

[shauner111]

It's the way i see it too. I see Nolans point on one hand, but the other hand...he didn't have to use old footage of Heath, he didn't have to re-cast if he didnt want to. Mentioning his name would have been fine.

I dont even think it would be disrespectful to re-cast as long as the face is not shown and you dont hear the voice. I think a name drop, and maybe a shot from behind in a cell would have been pretty cool. But that's just me..

 

[Roose Bolton]

A mention would have been good, but personally I think anything more than a flashback would be distracting and take way from the larger threat of Bane and Talia.

 

[marvelanddcfan]

I can see why Chris Nolan would have felt uncomfortable doing it. Heath became his friend and after he died, Chris still had to work with Heath's scenes for 6 months.

But disrespectful? I don't think so. I think not acknowledging Heath's contribution to the series is more disrespectful, Nolan himself said it was something Heath was very proud of. The character is more bigger than Heath, and I feel, Chris Nolan should have honoured both his own work as well as Heath's by including probably the defining character of his series.

Like I said, I can understand why he did, and it was pretty much damned if you do, damned if you don't. I just feel he should have gone the other way.

I agree with this 100% like this is exactly how I felt from the start. It's more of a disrespect leaving Heath out, and it leaves a giant hole in the series when Batman's archenemy, and closest friend is left out of the end of his journey. Yes, Joker has caused Batman alot of pain, but to me there's a complex friendship wound up inside it somewhere and in some ways, Joker may know Batman better than Robin ever did. I'd say the only person who knew Bruce better than the Joker was Alfred.

 

[Demon Hunter]

I agree with this 100% like this is exactly how I felt from the start. It's more of a disrespect leaving Heath out, and it leaves a giant hole in the series when Batman's archenemy, and closest friend is left out of the end of his journey. Yes, Joker has caused Batman alot of pain, but to me there's a complex friendship wound up inside it somewhere and in some ways, Joker may know Batman better than Robin ever did. I'd say the only person who knew Bruce better than the Joker was Alfred.

This might be true for the comic book, but it is not for this trilogy at all.

 

[marvelanddcfan]

This might be true for the comic book, but it is not for this trilogy at all.

You're forgetting that last scene, Demon Hunter. The last Joker scene at the end of The Dark Knight proved that this trilogy did support that aspect of the comics. I quote:
"You won't kill me, out of some misplaced sense of self righteousness, and I won't kill you, cause you're just too much fun. I think you and I are destined to do this forever."

"You'll be in a padded cell forever"

"Well maybe we can share one".

This was just scratching the surface of the Batman-Joker rollercoaster of a friendship.
Had The Joker appeared in the Dark Knight Rises, there could have been alot more revealed, and maybe we could have seen this relationship develop more and go further into knots and complexities, and maybe we could have seen Batman struggle to balance the joker on the line of friendship and rivalry, and maybe we could have gotten an explanation as to what he had been up to all this time.. maybe he figured out Bruce was Batman during all those 8 years in Arkham.. after all, what are you we gonna do sitting locked up in an asylum for 8 years? you have nothing to do but think. Maybe he put the pieces together, he's smart and calculative, even if he's a psychopath.

These are all MAYBES, i'm just trying to point out that things that could have been different in favor of the audience and maintained a certain respect to Heath.

Of course in the end, we can't change the fact that the Joker wasn't in the movie.

 

[shauner111]

^and that's why i think people should move forward with comic books/graphic novels/short stories in which they can fill in the gaps or continue the story. There's no restriction when you're just doing it on paper. There's still a heck of a lot that you can do with Joker/Batman in that world, without having to wait for the reboot & it's new Joker that exists in a completely different universe. Heaths Joker doesn't feel finished to me. And neither does Gotham City or John Blakes character.

 

[Brother Jack]

^and that's why i think people should move forward with comic books/graphic novels/short stories in which they can fill in the gaps or continue the story. There's no restriction when you're just doing it on paper. There's still a heck of a lot that you can do with Joker/Batman in that world, without having to wait for the reboot & it's new Joker that exists in a completely different universe. Heaths Joker doesn't feel finished to me. And neither does Gotham City or John Blakes character.

I disagree. Sure you could have had him in the sequel and done more with the character, but as it stands I think his exit and the way he was used is perfect. In TDK he really has no character arc to speak of, just seemingly appearing at the beginning of the film, screwing up everything for everyone, and just as abruptly disappearing at the end of the film, literally left hanging. This Joker has no real end because he has no beginning. He is a concept; you could use him in another story but the end result would be the same.