The Dark Knight Rises What's Joker up too?

[Shifty]

With Batman dead or MIA, The Joker wouldn't enjoy creating anarchy and Bane's army is more likely to kill him. The Joker tried to blow up a ferry full of criminals, they likely would want to kill him if they could. Since Batman wouldn't kill him so he probably just kept to himself.

I would envision a post credits scene of Dr. Harleen Quinzel returning to her to apartment from work at Arkham, her ID tag tossed onto the counter. She is a psychiatrist.

"You know just because you saved my life doesn't mean you can't pitch in around here? No dinner waiting for me?" We see the back of someone's head, There is no response from a man sitting on the couch watching television. Unimpressed she starts making dinner.
A laptop is on a coffee table with a screen open to a online forum where people are discussing the Batman. Did he really die, how he saved Gotham, who was he? etc.

The news switches to a live report of the Batman or someone dressed as the Batman returning. A slow laugh begins and we fade out.

The back story being over the past 8 years she worked with The Joker and then when Bane took over, Arkham was attacked and over thrown and Bane left the inmates to run Arkham. Just as Bane made things equal in Gotham, he made things equal in Arkham. The inmates took over and put the staff (guards, doctors, orderlies etc) into the prison rooms and tortured them.

Harley Quinn was raped by some inmates in the chaos. A rift begins between the inmates and a "civil war" happens. The Joker who has remained on the sidelines and now the two groups want him to pick a side or they'll kill him.

The Joker kills his attackers and he sees Quinn as a way out to survive and start over again. After rescuing her from death, she falls for him and lets him live with her but he has shifted into a depressed state knowing that the Batman is dead until it appears he has returned. Having spent the past 8 years formulating new ideas he's ready to get back to work.

 

[KalMart]

I wonder if Heath was still alive, if he would've played the judge... I could picture The Joker wearing the white hair judge's wig giving out sentences... just classic! haha

This is one of my gripes with the movie. I know Nolan took Heath's death hard but it's kinda dis respectful to the fans of Batman and the movies and to Heath himself to NOT acknowledge his fantastic performance in the previous movie. I mean Dent and Rachel gets referenced why not Joker,Batman's defining villian? The could have simply said Joker was transferred out of Gotham city to another prison or something like that. Just not mentioning him at all was a stupid idea. He played a BIG part in Bruce retiring in the first place.

I think even Nolan acknowledged that if Ledger were still arrived that the Joker would be returning. But since he isn't,and unlike with Dent/Rachel who were actually killed in the narrative, emotionally, Nolan didn't want to have to 'explain' what the Joker was doing or work around having him still alive but not included. And honestly, with all tat they were trying to pack into this movie, it certainly could have stood to leave out some elements, instead of add even little ones like that.

 

[Donut]

He sits in his cell. Him & Batman play Joke Poke every night off screen

 

[TheHeatKitchen]

I'm guessing in this Universe, Arkham is outside the Gotham limits and he's there, locked up in solitary. Therefore, he wasnt near by when this was happening, probably had no idea and was stewing in his insanity.

 

[BruceWayne]

I just wish there was some mention of him in the film. I mean, as far as we know, Joker was the worst thing to hit Gotham until Bane, so you would have thought at least Gordon would've made a comment.

 

[Charlie The Red]

In the real world, Joker would've probably been put on death row and executed, a la Timothy McVeigh.

For that reason, I doubt Nolan wanted to address it considering the fact that the actor who actually played The Joker really was dead. Would've seemed in poor taste.

"Where's the Joker."
"He died by lethal injection three years ago."

Seems a little sticky, to me....

 

[Charlie The Red]

Another part of me likes to think he's locked in a federal hole somewhere with maximum security and no sunlight.

Or even better, Guantanamo Bay.

 

[BruceWayne]

In the real world: Joker would've probably been put on death row and executed, a la Timothy McVeigh.

For that reason, I doubt Nolan wanted to address it considering the fact that the actor who actually played The Joker really was dead. Would've seemed in poor taste.

"Where's the Joker."
"He died by lethal injection three years ago."

Seems a little sticky, to me....

Not unless he was deemed insane.

 

[Charlie The Red]

He wouldn't have been. His plans were too well planned out. The definition of insanity by the legal system means someone is conscious and in control of their actions. A criminal psychologist would've deemed that he was both; not to mention, The Joker is such a boastful bastard he would never admit to NOT knowing what he was doing.

EDIT - Another big part of it is knowing the difference between right and wrong. Not only does the Joker know the difference between what's legal and what isn't, but he voluntarily and gleefully breaks those laws. He's totally aware of his actions.

 

[The Question]

If I was Bane [BLACKOUT]or Talia[/BLACKOUT] during this whole thing, the one criminal I wouldn't free is The Joker. Too much of a variable to keep track of.

 

[Charlie The Red]

If I was Bane [BLACKOUT]or Talia[/BLACKOUT] during this whole thing, the one criminal I wouldn't free is The Joker. Too much of a variable to keep track of.

I was thinking of this as well. Joker has no respect for authority whatsoever. He would just look at Bane as a new Batman, and would do everything he could to tear Bane's control over the situation apart.

 

[BruceWayne]

He wouldn't have been. His plans were too well planned out. The definition of insanity by the legal system means someone is conscious and in control of their actions. A criminal psychologist would've deemed that he was both; not to mention, The Joker is such a boastful bastard he would never admit to NOT knowing what he was doing.

EDIT - Another big part of it is knowing the difference between right and wrong. Not only does the Joker know the difference between what's legal and what isn't, but he voluntarily and gleefully breaks those laws. He's totally aware of his actions.

But if he is that calculating, you know he would've played that up when they were trying to evaluate his mental state. To him, everything was fun and was more or less a game...especially when it involved Batman. And that's pretty much how he is in the comics.

 

[The Question]

The legal definition of insanity hinges entirely on wether or not you can understand the moral implications of your actions It is possible, however unlikely, to be zoo deep in one's psychosis to be entirely capable of intricate planning and still be unable to comprehend the true moral implications of what you're doing.

 

[Charlie The Red]

Again, I don't think Joker would be found legally insane because he was undiagnosed and fully aware of the repercussions and consequences of his actions.

To give you some insight, Jim Gordon (not the Commissioner, but a session drummer from the 60s and 70s (he wrote the piano outro to "Layla")) had a psychotic break and killed his mother with a hammer and butcher's knife.

Because of strict laws regarding the insanity plea in the state of California, even though doctors had determined he was a paranoid schizophrenic, he was still found "Guilty" and not "Insane" by the courts. He resides in a prison in California without mental health treatment to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gordon_(musician)

If a paranoid schizophrenic who hears voices has a hard time getting off with the insanity plea, how in the hell would a man who killed a Judge, a Police Commissioner, a slew of police officers, an Assistant District Attorney and mutiliated a District Attorney (all members of LAW ENFORCEMENT) get off with it? (Not to mention attempted to kill THE MAYOR, another Police Commissioner, and half the citizens of Gotham, and blew up a hospital).

I mean, really.

 

[chamber-music]

Bane only busted out the Blackgate ones because he felt they deserved to be liberated because they were locked up by Dent, whom Bane learned was not the hero he had been made out to be.

I don't see why he'd touch the Arkham inmates.

The league had no problem busting out the Arkham patients in Begins I doubt they would be against doing it again.

The Joker is probably out somewhere in Gotham having a fun time of his own. He would love the fact Gotham went to hell.

 

[Gamingboy]

Considering that Batman wasn't in town, and then [BLACKOUT]appeared to die[/BLACKOUT], I'm guessing Joker is probably in his cell somewhere muttering stuff about how he was the one who was supposed to [BLACKOUT]finish off the Bat[/BLACKOUT] and how Bane ruined all of his fun.

 

[Art Damage]

i wonder if heath was still alive, if he would've played the judge... I could picture the joker wearing the white hair judge's wig giving out sentences... Just classic! Haha

please someone photoshop this!

 

[BruceWayne]

Again, I don't think Joker would be found legally insane because he was undiagnosed and fully aware of the repercussions and consequences of his actions.

To give you some insight, Jim Gordon (not the Commissioner, but a session drummer from the 60s and 70s (he wrote the piano outro to "Layla")) had a psychotic break and killed his mother with a hammer and butcher's knife.

Because of strict laws regarding the insanity plea in the state of California, even though doctors had determined he was a paranoid schizophrenic, he was still found "Guilty" and not "Insane" by the courts. He resides in a prison in California without mental health treatment to this day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Gordon_(musician)

If a paranoid schizophrenic who hears voices has a hard time getting off with the insanity plea, how in the hell would a man who killed a Judge, a Police Commissioner, a slew of police officers, an Assistant District Attorney and mutiliated a District Attorney (all members of LAW ENFORCEMENT) get off with it? (Not to mention attempted to kill THE MAYOR, another Police Commissioner, and half the citizens of Gotham, and blew up a hospital).

I mean, really.

Given that Joker basically exhibited a death wish to an extent in TDK, I think a bigger punishment would've been life imprisonment. His whole goal was to prove everyone, deep down, was exactly like him, so the death penalty would've been too fitting.

If you want to think they killed him off, that's fine, but I think most of us agree that he was sent to Arkham.

 

[Charlie The Red]

Not really sure how "most of us" would agree that he was sent to Arkham when its never actually stated anywhere in the films, but cool.

I'm only saying if the Nolan films are as grounded in realism as we've been told, not even Dr. Crane could get Joker off on the insanity defense. He killed way too many prosecutors, law enforcement members, and city officials for them to let that slide; he let way too witnesses know the intent of his actions and his understanding of the consequences.

If being a psychopath got someone off on insanity, then Charlie Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Timothy McVeigh, etc. etc. would not have been found guilty.

 

[BruceWayne]

Not really sure how "most of us" would agree that he was sent to Arkham when its never actually stated anywhere in the films, but cool.

I'm only saying if the Nolan films are as grounded in realism as we've been told, not even Dr. Crane could get Joker off on the insanity defense. He killed way too many prosecutors, law enforcement members, and city officials for them to let that slide.

But Joker had nothing to gain from any of it. There was no intent other than to cause chaos, which to me makes him crazy. Yeah, he had really detailed plans, but what did he have to gain from any of it??

 

[Charlie The Red]

"This city is mine now." - Clear statement of intent to acquire control of Gotham's underworld.

"How much do you want?"
"Half... If you're good at something, never do it for free." - A good prosecutor, if privy to this conversation (which would probably be explained to him by any number of key witnesses (lookng to cut a deal) from the underworld's meeting at the restaurant) would argue that this proves Joker's intent to acquire wealth. Of course, a defense attorney would argue that he burned all of it, but then that would tie back into Joker's intent to take over Gotham's underworld.

- Intent. Intent. Intent. He INTENTIONALLY killed police officers, lawyers, judges, and local citizens.

- His conversations with Gordon and Batman were recorded and are admittable as evidence that would support the prosecution's case. That entire exchange between both characters is enough to prove he was of sound mind (albeit with a psychosis, but not insane) and he could then be tried and sentenced.

 

[Charlie The Red]

Also, saying he committed the number of crimes just because he could is almost as bad as saying he was doing it towards an end.

That proves malice, or in his case motiveless malignity (which is what he essentially is throughout the entire film, like Iago).

Usually when someone gets off on the insanity plea, it's because they have an incredibly low IQ, is mentally handicapped, or in the case of temporary insanity there were extreme, extenuating circumstances that pushed to a point of being unable to control their actions.

None of those apply to the Joker.

 

[BruceWayne]

Also, saying he committed the number of crimes just because he could is almost as bad as saying he was doing it towards an end.

That proves malice, or in his case motiveless malignity (which is what he essentially is throughout the entire film, like Iago).

Usually when someone gets off on the insanity plea, it's because they have an incredibly low IQ, is mentally handicapped, or in the case of temporary insanity there were extreme, extenuating circumstances that pushed to a point of being unable to control their actions.

None of those apply to the Joker.

You're confusing criminal insanity with incompetency. Anyone willing to defend the Joker, most likely would argue volitional insanity and that Joker just can't help himself or he just has absolutely no regard for the consequences of his actions. Yes, it's hard to plead such a case, but Joker is smart and calculating enough where he would be sure to have such a case built or have some sort of contingency plan.

Plus you would have to assume that Gotham falls within a state that carries the death penalty. If not, he more than likely would've been sent to Arkham because he's far to dangerous for Blackgate prison. He's alway found to be not guilty for reason of insanity in the comics, so you have to assume Nolan's world follows suit.

 

[Nevincer]

Let's be real: the Joker can't have been in Gotham... sure Arkham didn't get touched, but with Gotham in that kind of anarchy he'd have been let loose. Sure you can find a way around it and say the plot just didn't necessitate seeing him, but I really think it makes more sense overall that he wasn't around and was either given capital punishment or sentenced to a high security prison outside of Gotham as has been suggested.

 

[Scooter]

The judge role is way too insignificant for the Joker. The Joker is Batman's greatest villain, he would have been up to something.

I'd love to see Ledger's Joker and Hardy's Bane co-existing. You wouldn't even need Batman in that movie.