First Avenger Who Is Composing?

Indicate where any of the phrases in Vacation's Over appears in any two pieces.

It's not enough to have a piece of music with a melody, you have to use that exact melody regardless of timing or instrumentation variations and there's only one theme that's used in more than one piece and it's the guitar riff and it's such a flavorless guitar riff at that.

Film scoring is only 100 years old and the use of guitar leads in orchestrations happened 20 years before Djawadi's score so it's not quite revolutionary like you make it out to be.

Harry Gregson-Williams could have done a much better heavy metal/symphony orchestra score.
 
The whole concept of a superhero film needing a recurring, memorable theme is entirely innacurate. That's how a lot of films have done it before, that doesn't that's the way it HAS to be. It is entirely at the filmmakers and composers discretion. The way Iron Man did it is entirely valid, and I think the main reason I like it is because it ISN'T like the standard superhero score. Most Superhero scores you have a couple of main themes, one for the hero, one for the villain and maybe a love theme and they all keep repeating, over and over again. With Iron Man, I could hear a single piece of music from it and know exactly where that fits into the movie. The music is all about enhancing what is on screen, helping to portray the mood, the tone of the scene, the drama and then to punctuate the action. The IM score did that without any flaws, so whats the problem? It's just a total fanboy gripe from people who grew up on Batman 89 and Superman that every Superhero movie needs a theme they can hum to themselves and make as a ringtone.

I think an example of a great score is John Ottman's X2 score... It had a strong, opening credits theme that was like a classic theme, but then didn't appear in the rest of the movie, or everytime there was action, the music was a lot more organic, it changed and developed along with the action, it wasn't the same themes again and again being rammed home.

I don't get why, with the many, many different approaches to film scoring, people still look at film music with blinders on. Personally, I think if you're noticing a theme during the movie on the first viewing, that's probably not the best scoring anyway. The music shouldn't take you out of the movie.
 
Indicate where any of the phrases in Vacation's Over appears in any two pieces.

Okay. This is way off-topic, but okay.

Assuming the phrase is in a-minor: The melody in Vacation's over is a-c-d-a-g-a in long, sweeping notes. It occurs twice, with the second time being a tonal variation in the same rhythm.

It recurs for example during the blacksmithing part of "Mark I", where it is a-a-c-d-a-a-g-a, which is a rhythmic variation in 3/4 bar in shorter notes.

Then there's what I call IM's main theme: a-a-a-a-a--a-a-a-a-c-d--a-a-a-a-a--a-a-a-a-a-g--(repeat) in 4/4 bar in even shorter notes.

(Disclaimer: I'm doing this at work from memory, so don't shoot me if it's not accurate.)

So, we have this basic a-c-d-a-g-a that's the recurring theme. As I said, it's often not easy to make out in its variations.

But, in any case, I agree with Wolvie. A score's main task is to enhance and deepen the visual experience, and Djawadi's score certainly does that.
 
Well Wolvie did ask to get technical, so I thought we could go far into the discussion.

The IM theme is A C D A D C; that's the guitar riff that's repeated in the three pieces I mentioned. But the theme you are talking about in Vacation's Over goes A, C D A, G2 A B, G3 B A.

The score is adequate, I never said it was a bad score, but it's not very good either. It's serviceable but not memorable and that's not in some "fanboy" opinion but in a musical sense. It's not like this criticism is just from people who watch comic book films, people who post on boards dedicated to film scores have the same opinions.

As I mentioned, the work of Djawadi's MV/RC colleague Harry Gregson-Williams in Spy Game or Domino or Men on Fire is a better usage of the heavy metal/orchestra mix.
 
The Captain America samples sound promising, but I have to hear it in the context of the film as well.

Personally I've been underwhelmed by most of the music in the recent films. I think Giacchino can unleash the beast for Avengers if he's allowed. Whedon just needs to tell Giacchino that you need to make the superhero movie scores to end all superhero movie scores. You need to put John Williams and Danny Elfman to shame.
 
@Elevator_Man:

Iron Man had a heavy metal score, befitting a heavy metal hero. Nothing else would have fitted him better.

I never said a heavy metal score wouldn't have worked for IM. The problem (for me anyways) is the score was more of an MV/RC action score than a heavy metal score. IMO the score could've worked with synthesisers blending with an orchestra with electric guitars added in the mix. Which Djawadi did but was executed poorly, imo. A more skilled composer could've done better.

There was a definite theme, one that got the full variations treatment, including a full orchestra variation (when the 'copter flies over the dune to pick up Tony in the desert). It was varied rhythmically, by instruments, in 4/4, 3/4, and 5/4 bars, often to the point where it was hard to make out. Just because it's not a clear orchestral theme doesn't mean there isn't a theme. Just because you don't recognize the variations doesn't mean they're not there.

I'm not complaining about the theme. Eventhough it was nothing special and didn't scream IM to me. I don't have a problem with the theme not being orchestral either. The theme was the least of the generic score's problems.

Heavy metal instruments mixed with an orchestra actually is a relatively new crossover, as compared to the symphony orchestra that has existed in its present configuration for about 150 years. Saying Djawadi didn't turn things on their head or didn't do anything new for the score (as opposed to, say, TDK, who had a symphony orchestra, y'know, the 150 years old version) is superficial.

Mixing heavy metal instruments with orchestra is far from new. Elfman, heck even Zimmer (and I'm sure other composers) have done it before. Yeah I'm still sticking with my opinion that Djawadi wrote nothing we haven't heard before. His msuic in IM is interchangeable with any other MV/RC score. IM should've had it's own sound. A sound that we can associate with IM and not a score that we hear in every other action movie score composed by the MV/RC guys. Oh and TDK orchestra is buried under heavy synthesisers. You can barely hear the orchestra. So why even bother hiring one in the first place?

Another thing the IM score could've worked with an orchestra blended with electronic instruments and heavy metal instruments. Eventhough Djawadi's score did use those elements. It's just how you execute it. Look at Poledouris' Robocop score it's orchestral (which captures the title character's humanity) and electronic (which captures the title characters robotic side). At the ame time has a strong melody. And many other themes. The point I'm trying to make is why use an orchestra if their going to be buried under synthesisers most of the time. And the synthesisers for IM are the typical MV/RC kind. The heavy metal stuff was too generic and bland. I've hear other scores do better.

And just because it's not an orchestral theme doesn't mean it's not hard to do. TDK's theme consists of two notes. IM's theme consists of six. Was it harder to do? I think it's conceit to think you know the answer to that one.

TDK and IM are in the same boat for me. So when you're defending IM over TDK. You're not hurting my feelings. I could care less since both scores were the typical MV/RC bologna. And didn't add anything to those scores that we haven't heard before, imo. They're both cut from the same cloth. A pomeranian could've came up with those themes.

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If it didn't do anything for you, sorry to hear that, because you've clearly become jaded. No offense.

It's nice to see that you think I'm "jaded" b/c I disagree with you about the IM score being good. BTW I respect that you like the IM score. But to me it was the same generic MV/RC crap we get these days in these type of movies.

As for Cap, he's a hero in the past, so his score has to be more traditional. And judging from the samples we've heard, it is just that. So, again, a score that fits the hero perfectly.

Yeah no kidding that an old fashion score would work for Cap. The MV/RC approach would just make it feel like your typical Michael Bay action movie. And CA:TFAclearly isn't.
 
The score is adequate, I never said it was a bad score, but it's not very good either. It's serviceable but not memorable and that's not in some "fanboy" opinion but in a musical sense. It's not like this criticism is just from people who watch comic book films, people who post on boards dedicated to film scores have the same opinions.

But as I said before, speaking musically, a film score doesn't HAVE to memorable to work for the film, as audio that enhances the visuals and amplifies the tone. For example, I love Clint Mansells score for 'Moon', which is so damn beautiful and eerie and cool all at once, and that score plays such an important role in setting the tone and mood for that film. Anyone who's seen it can tell you how important atmosphere is to that movie, so you can see it's importance, yet that's not 'memorable' in the sense that people keep talking about. It's not a John Williams type theme you hum as you leave the cinema, but it is CRUCIAL in amplifying the movie, and it's relatively simple as well, again, musically speaking.

Also, back to the Iron Man score, for a strong, character driven film like that, you don't NEED a heavy duty score. I still prefer the IM score over IM 2 but I respect that IM 2 NEEDED a heavier score since it was a lot more action oriented. That said, the IM score still delivered on the action front, I think, because the whole score from Iron Monger's appearance onwards was great for an action score, and it did have reused familiar themes. When Stark decides to take off and fly straight up, the theme we'd already heard twice kicked in and as an audience we got that familiarity, knowing the character is in control of the situation. And, having just listened to that track, I can tell you it combines about 3 different themes in the one piece, you have Iron Man's theme, the Iron Monger theme and then the more context specific action theme. There's nothing half assed about it.

Also, a lot of you think you're being objective, but you're actually doing the opposite. Saying "I respect that you like it, but the score was incredibly generic" isn't objective at all, you're mixing opinions in there. You're saying you didn't like it, it didn't interest you musically, but to completely discount it's effectiveness as far as how it compliments the movie is really underanalysing it. Neither the instruments or the chord progressions make or break a movie score, and in a movie with so many character moments, having a loud, full textured orchestral score would be more likely to detract and create melodrama rather than the more truthful character development we got from RDJ.
 
I should have clarified myself; when I say memorable, I don't mean there is some great theme that you can hum, I mean there's something there that's completely unique. Clint Mansell's work on Moon is definitely memorable because it's unique. There's tons of dissonance and creative sound engineering that shows how much effort was put into making that score not only work along side the film but to be great all on it's own.

All of this is subjective and objective on some level; you can objectively describe the actual music and then you subjectively determine if you like that. We both agree on an objective level that the Iron Man score is not heavy, but you think that fits and I don't. I'm not bashing you for liking and I'm not saying that it's not effective in complimenting the movie; all I'm saying is that it could be better.
 
Hmmm I can dig that. I can be pretty outspoken about film scores, especially since I tend to prefer a more reserved, subdued film score to the big, ballsy ones. I'm not a John Williams fan for that very reason. He's good with a main theme, but I find the music underlying character development etc really distracting and uncomplicated. I mean, obviously I include exceptions of Star Wars and Indiana Jones, but some of the more recent stuff, like Harry Potter and new Star Wars bugged the hell out of me (except for certain moments in Revenge of the Sith).

I would compare the Iron Man score to the Incredible Hulk score, as far as perfectly applicable, character building scores, although I think Iron Man delivered more when it came to the action music, as far as defining a character theme.
 
The score is absolutely amazing!

Love the last few for Cap's bravery and time travel. Almost made me shed a tear of happiness.

And the Star Spangled Man song sounds hilariously accurate to the time.
 
Oh my God, only listening to a select few to visualize it but what I've heard it's so so ****in good. Sounds like the best soundtrack of Marvel Studios so far. I'll have to wait to hear it in context though.
 
This is My Choice to Passage of Time


Absolutely beautiful.
 
Yeah sounds like Star Spangled Man is going to be pretty catchy.
 
Really liked Passage of time and the first track about Schmitt which...it had a great theme for red skull. The Star Spangled USO song is pretty funny and befitting the period.
 
It pains me to hear people say they didn't like Powell's 'The Last Stand' score. It was the best part of that movie.

Powell's score for X3 was great. It was wonderfully bombastic (to suit Brett Ratner's needs), but it had a wealth of great themes sprinkled throughout. I love it, and it's still superior to all the X-Men scores before and after it.

In my opinion, a lot of the Marvel movies lack really good scores. Danny Elfman's Spider-Man scores were good, John Powell's X3 score was great, and it looks like Silvestri's CA score will join their ranks. But the DC movies have had problems with that too.

And after listening to the clips of Silvestri's score on Amazon, I pray Joss Whedon secures him or a worthy composer for The Avengers. Silvestri's had experience with electronics, so people don't have to worry about whether he can properly represent Tony Stark/Iron Man musically.
 
I've had the stupid theme for the movie stuck in my head for the past week now.

So, it's definitely an earworm.
 
I've got it. Great stuff. I'm struggling to identify any themes outside of Cap's but hopefully they'll come to me.
 
Nice! I'm gonna get it tomorrow here, hopefully soon someone puts the tracks up on the old utubez lol :D
 
So I'm fully expecting it tonight in less than 2 hours on itunes....
 

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