Why are so many people deadset against showing the origin?

[Superwoman Prime]

Star Trek was a pre-se-boot. Wackiness, but it worked brilliantly!

With Superman though, it needs to be a straight reboot IMO.

Way to repeat exactly what I said.

 

[Webhead2006]

I really do wonder when ever superman does get on plate again who will wb entrust this time?

 

[M.O.Steel]

to be honest...i don't really consider the Star Trek movie to be a reboot.

 

[Nightwing1977]

First of all, thats not even true. Whole younger generation hasnt really been introduced to a Superman origin yet.
Second, "everybody" knew Spiderman's origin before the film.

Really? What does that make Smallville then? I'm sure that one is introduced to a whole new & younger generation of his origin. Just longer than an origin done in a movie.

And I disagree on Spider-Man's origin that everybody know. More know about Supes's origin than Spidey. Heck, my parents are not comic fans & they know about Supes's origin than Spidey. This just show that almost the whole world know Supes's origin than any comic book characters.

Donner film was in 1978 over 30 yrs ago. And why would you tell someone to go watch a previous film that by today's standards is campy* when a whole new origin can be told with better SFX and a bad ass super villain. If a Superman origin was told in a live action film in the last 5-10 yrs then I could understand not doing an origin...but its been 30 yrs

Yes, it was 30 yrs. ago but the origin is still fantastic despite the F/X & everything not being that perfect yet. If they want to go with the origin, use some flashback few times. I'm down with that. Just not the whole 1 hour origin again like the first film. Otherwise, you're going to hear the public being confused on why they're retelling the origin all over & then they'll complain that they already seen it. It could have an effect on box office too.

*Dont everybody go crazy about me calling it campy. I respect that it did alot to build the superhero film genre. But to me it has not held up against the test of time

I respect your opinion there. It is campy for sure, but again the origin was done well.

Besides the fact that some people want a SR sequel, all the arguments dont even make sense to me.

Why it doesn't make sense? I don't know why some wanting a SR sequel has no arguments or it doesn't make sense.

The other thing is that this thread is just a bunch of people agreeing with each other and labeling anyone who disagrees with them as "Donner cultists".

I was labeled as one of 'em "Donner cultist" & that really tick me off. That is like calling others as "not true Superman fan". Thing is, there are many different stories of Superman that some fans prefer one than other. Some will prefer Lois & Clark or Smallville or even the animated series over one other media entertainment. Doesn't make them any less of a Superman fan though.

 

[Webhead2006]

well its probably going to be clear when ever the next film does happen it will be a new start, so like i and others have said there needs to be some origin stuff told in what ever fashion they choice to go in.

 

[BestGirl]

to be honest...i don't really consider the Star Trek movie to be a reboot.

It's a de facto reboot.

 

[M.O.Steel]

right, but technically, it's still in the same universe.

 

[Webhead2006]

actually i believe the new trek film is considered to be in an alternate universe due to nero screwing up events. So look at JJ's Trek to just be one of many parallel universes there is in trek cannon (for example the mirror universe). Only people who are from the original universe are older spock, nero, and his men. With the original trek universe still out there to ever be touched again.

 

[M.O.Steel]

as much as MJFox went back in time and got erased in the picture. The parallel universe is still in the "same universe"

it's technically not a different universe.

 

[Webhead2006]

well there is talk in the ST thread in general movies about that whole deal. It is an alternate timeline that is running parallel to the original time line so IE a parallel universe as you may have it. So JJ's trek is one thing and the classic original trek timeline is still there too.

 

[M.O.Steel]

so they are in the same universe?t: you get what i'm saying tho right?

batman begins and burton are not in the same universe.

 

[Webhead2006]

no they are technically two different universes but running in the same time frame of time.

 

[Superwoman Prime]

They're two different universes and continuities under a single umbrella continuity.

That's the best way to describe it.

 

[The Guard]

Still...in films terms, STAR TREK is an obvious reboot.

 

[MadVillainy]

Still...in films terms, STAR TREK is an obvious reboot.

and a sequel and a reimagining and kind of a prequel

I mean seriously its not just one of those things. Its a beautiful cluster f***

 

[Webhead2006]

totally things are a bit confusing when you add in time travel and parallel universe into the mix with trek. I am a fan of all that, but at times it can get so darn confusing to follow things.

 

[M.O.Steel]

no they are technically two different universes but running in the same time frame of time.

i didn't mean universe as in literally. each film franchise has it's own universe. SR is not in the same universe as TDK, but is in the same universe as Donner. TDK is not in the same universe as B89.

in terms of the star trek films, i think it's better to use the word timeline. while it is altered timeline, it is in the same universe. The older Spock, Kirk, crew, and Nero are from the older timeline and they are in the new one. Now, if those guys did not make an appearance, or if you can tell me that the older spock is not the same spock as the one from the series, then it is a completely different universe.

I loved the film, and i agree, in terms of the franchise, it is a absolutely a refreshing, rebirth of all the characters. but if you look at the overall big picture, it's still one big continuing story. just like the terminator franchise. each of the movies and shows are in different timelines, but they all co-exist in the same universe. like balckman said, it's served to do all those things.

Singer kinda tried it with SR by connecting it to the old series while restarting/revamping the franchise for a newer generation, but i feel he failed miserable b/c he didn't strike the right balance. too much connected to the old, and not enough of change for the new, so it got stuck in the middle.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Personally i want to see the origin. Its been done to death, but done well, it will be interesting. Just make it short and do it the Begins way:

a) Use flashbacks. I dunno, but i loved the narration technique of Begins. Instead of a chronological order, lets start with Clark arriving in Metropolis and finding it hard to adjust to his new life there. So he often daydreams about his past in Smallville. Lois' taunts should be very effective in bringing him back memories. What she taunts, is what he holds dearest to his heart. By making it sentimental, you re making it interesting.
b) Make the past relevant to the plot happening in the present. Just like Ras appeared in Bruce's past and his present as Batman, there could be something in Clark's past that will make visiting his past important because it ties to the plot in the present.

That way, the origin can be interesting again. It doesnt have to take a big part of the movie, maybe only 40 minutes. With the flashbacks, you can visit Clark's past in various different time spots. We can see him daydream about discovering his powers, his relationship with Lana, the day he left Smallville, etc, etc. Just like in Begins we see Bruce as a child, then as a teenager, then at his training, etc.

The other proposal i have is starting the film with Clark's last days in Smallville. By preparing for his departure, his discussions and goodbyes with his parents and Lana give us flashbacks about his past: Discovering his powers, dating Lana, his school days.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Things i would definitely do during the origin:

1) Give Clark a true childhood friend. I always felt that Bruce needed one and Begins gave us exactly that. I feel the same way about Clark. Give him Pete, or Chloe, but use different actors so that nobody comfuses the movie with that crap that is Smallville.
2) If one day you discovered you can fly, what would you do? Fly around the world and visit places. Fly over the Sahara, dive with the seals of the North pole, fly with a flock of migrating birds, fly over Paris, NY, the steppes, the Alps, etc. Personally its my favourite superpower. Imagine flying over all those places. I'd definitely put all that magic on screen.
3) Show Clark adjusting to Metropolis. His appartment and his hateful landlord, meeting people in the Daily Planet, etc. I loved how "Lois & Clark" explored details like that. Of course it was a weekly show and it had all the time in the world to do that, but still...

Now, to another issue: Lex.
Lex has been done to death, but you cant leave him out can you? Lex needs character development and i'd choose the comics and STAS path. Lex does a lot of charity work and is trully trying to help the world, but when after all his hard work and donations a man who can fly takes all the attention without so much as trying, he starts descending to the dark side. I'd use Brainiac as the first villain since he ties to Krypton and its destruction, and therefore the origin that the first film is all about. That would also help Lex's development by justifying his distrust towards aliens and Superman in specific who he thinks is slyly trying to take over the world. Meanwhile Lex is descending to evil and i'd use him as the main villain of the second movie, with someone like Metallo or Parasite being the brawn to his brain.

Tell me what you think about my ideas.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

One thing that really strikes me about the origin is how mythic it is.

The scene of Kal’s parents putting him into the ship to leave their world alone, where the apocalypse and destruction of one world would give another its most powerful hero.

The story is relatively simple, but if done right can have a very emotional element to it.

I really like how in this fanfilm:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7pw7l_the-greatest-fan-film-of-all-time_shortfilms

The part with the toddler Kal putting his hand against the cockpit glass, reaching for parents he will never see again, about to make one of the greatest journeys ever, through space to a foreign world where he may live…

That is nothing short of re-telling of a classic Myth. There is a deep innate human desire to tell, and re-tell, and hear and re-hear the same mythic stories over and over again. It is one of the ways early human’s preserved their history. It is what to day gives us Myth and legend.

So its not really that fans want to see an altered version of his origin, but rather just a modern update to the aesthetics and be a more modern version of the scene, while keeping its heart intact.

If I see a Superman Re-boot, I at least want to see an updated version of that scene. Its one of the most iconic historical events of Superman’s story.

 

[Mr. Earle]

One thing that really strikes me about the origin is how mythic it is.

The scene of Kal’s parents putting him into the ship to leave their world alone, where the apocalypse and destruction of one world would give another its most powerful hero.

The story is relatively simple, but if done right can have a very emotional element to it.

I really like how in this fanfilm:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7pw7l_the-greatest-fan-film-of-all-time_shortfilms

The part with the toddler Kal putting his hand against the cockpit glass, reaching for parents he will never see again, about to make one of the greatest journeys ever, through space to a foreign world where he may live…

That is nothing short of re-telling of a classic Myth. There is a deep innate human desire to tell, and re-tell, and hear and re-hear the same mythic stories over and over again. It is one of the ways early human’s preserved their history. It is what to day gives us Myth and legend.

So its not really that fans want to see an altered version of his origin, but rather just a modern update to the aesthetics and be a more modern version of the scene, while keeping its heart intact.

If I see a Superman Re-boot, I at least want to see an updated version of that scene. Its one of the most iconic historical events of Superman’s story.

THIS. God this!!!

Btw in my proposals above i am staying on canon and i'm merely suggesting how the film should handle the origin. I agree with you that they shouldnt stray from canon.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Things i would definitely do during the origin:

1) Give Clark a true childhood friend. I always felt that Bruce needed one and Begins gave us exactly that. I feel the same way about Clark. Give him Pete, or Chloe, but use different actors so that nobody comfuses the movie with that crap that is Smallville.
2) If one day you discovered you can fly, what would you do? Fly around the world visiting places. Fly over the Sahara, dive with the seals of the North pole, fly with a flock of migrating birds, fly over Paris, NY, the steppes, the Alps, etc. Personally its my favourite superpower. Imagine flying over all those places. I'd definitely put all that magic on screen.
3) Show Clark adjusting to Metropolis. His appartment and his hateful landlord, meeting people in the Daily Planet, etc. I loved how "Lois & Clark" explored details like that. Of course it was a weekly show and it had all the time in the world to do that, but still...

Now, to another issue: Lex.
Lex has been done to death, but you cant leave him out can you? Lex needs character development and i'd choose the comics and STAS path. Lex does a lot of charity work and is trully trying to help the world, but when after all his hard work and donations a man who can fly takes all the attention without so much as trying, he starts descending to the dark side. I'd use Brainiac as the first villain since he ties to Krypton and its destruction, and therefore the origin that the first film is all about. Meanwhile i'd show Lex descending to evil and i'd use him as the main villain of the second movie, with someone like Metallo or Parasite being the brawn to his brain.

Tell me what you think about my ideas.

Technically Brainiac in the comics is Couluan, not from Krypton, but it would not be going any further than STAS (which is awesome) to have him have had something to do with the Kryptonians not being warned of their impending doom

I completely agree that corporate Lex is by far the way to go.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Technically Brainiac in the comics is Couluan, not from Krypton, but it would not be going any further than STAS (which is awesome) to have him have had something to do with the Kryptonians not being warned of their impending doom

I completely agree that corporate Lex is by far the way to go.

I dunno, i thought that just like Ras tied to Batman's past, it would help the origin and the importance of retelling it, by making it relevant to the present. I personally like the kryptonian origin of Brainiac but on the other hand i am not so up to speed with his comics canon to properly judge it.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I dunno, i thought that just like Ras tied to Batman's past, it would help the origin and the importance of retelling it, by making it relevant to the present. I personally like the kryptonian origin of Brainiac but on the other hand i am not so up to speed with his comics canon to properly judge it.

Yep, it was a similar thought process with Brainiac from STAS.

I'm fine with either origin story for Brainiac in a movie, so long as they get his characterization right, and make him a scary world destroying Alien entity.

 

[Webhead2006]

Some nice ideas there mr. earle. I to wouldnt mind if they went the route of STAS for brainiac and tie him to krypton/ Or if you want to keep him a colu to still be the cause or one of the contributing factors to why krypton blew up and all that.

As for origin i said it time and time before i still want to see it. Since if we are going to the hassle of a totally new start new begining for a film series. We need to see why things are new and different in this story compared to past tv shows or the donnor movies and all that. Only question is how do you want to play out the origin bits in the movie.