Why Bale and Routh arent part of the Justice League

[Hunter Rider]

Guard, make your list and then post it in one go please.

 

[Steelsheen]

Actually...

1. Jim Caviezel. Every bit as much range as Christian Bale, and could easily fit the role. Frankly, Jim does dark/light so well he could be Superman, too. And he very nearly almost sort of was.

hmm, gonna have to disagree with you there Guard. Caviezel is a good actor, but i have a hard time imagining him as Batman, even an older version. there's something about the guy i just find lacking.

i dont even buy him as Superman-- at any age.

theres a certain "softness" to Caviezel that makes him a mismatch for any of the superhero roles, at least as far as DC goes.

2. Johnny Depp. Ditto the range, interesting look, interesting take on Wayne, but could easily pull it off.

Depp as Bruce Wayne? no. Depp as Tony Stark, maybe. i know that these roles are just the counterpart of each other in the comic book world, but there are vibes/ presence/ bearing that certain actors give out that makes them suited to one role over the other. this is one of those cases.

I'm going to Red Lobster. I'll keep going as they come to me. I'll start with big names, work down as much as I can.

hell i missed my church service discussing stuff here. i'm trying catch a later schedule.

 

[Dotten]

Too bad we miss the opportunity to have one DC universe. I can understan Nolans irritation, but still it seems a bit selfish.

So instead of one universe we will have to live with a gazillion. I'm okay with it, but knowing what could be, it's a bit frustrating.

 

[Chewy]

I don't think Nolan is being selfish at all. JL is intended to come out BETWEEN his Bat-Films. And since it has Bats AND an al Ghul in it, general audience WILL associate it with his films.

He feels (and rightly so, imo) that work outside of his control and not his own will have an impact on audience reaction to/opinion of his 3rd Bats film. If JL bombs, his film will NOT perform as well as it might have otherwise. So, he asks that it be delayed until AFTER his films. WB essentially says "Screw you, we'll do it anyway". I just don't see it as childish on Nolan's part.

It is an unpleasant situation all around, and I wish those cursed suits could've just waited a few years so we could have Bale (although it may be a blessing in disguise that Super-Kid (the boy, not Routh himself) isn't associated )

 

[jmc]

I think Nolan is just genuinely concerned that JL could potentially damage his project. He's an artist and artists are very protective of their work, I know, I'm one of them t:

 

[Dotten]

I know, that's why I understand his anger. But still, if he cared for the bigger picture he would at least try to listen to what they have to say and not go all ape-**** over the news.

But then again, he's an artist. But Batman is bigger then Nolan, Batman is bigger then Bale. One should respect that, because Nolan must understand he is working on another artists creation.

I don't think Nolan has any interest in his Batman excisting in a universe with superheroes. But what done is done. But the JL movie takes a bit of the Hype out of Nolans franchise. Batman solo-movies are a bit old news now.

 

[Steelsheen]

I know, that's why I understand his anger. But still, if he cared for the bigger picture he would at least try to listen to what they have to say and not go all ape-**** over the news.

But then again, he's an artist. But Batman is bigger then Nolan, Batman is bigger then Bale. One should respect that, because Nolan must understand he is working on another artists creation.

I don't think Nolan has any interest in his Batman excisting in a universe with superheroes. But what done is done. But the JL movie takes a bit of the Hype out of Nolans franchise. Batman solo-movies are a bit old news now.

hmm, well i dont think its old news, TDK is still one of the most anticipated films of 2008.

however i dont think Bale being in the JL movie would've done any damage to his franchise, it anything it would bring in more people his franchise is not able to reach.

 

[Dotten]

hmm, well i dont think its old news, TDK is still one of the most anticipated films of 2008.

I'll be first in line at the cinema, but I've lived to see five Batman-movies in my lifetime. Batman is the most used comic-book hero. So it's never quite as thrilling as when the news of movies like SR, Transformers and Spider-Man first came.

however i dont think Bale being in the JL movie would've done any damage to his franchise, it anything it would bring in more people his franchise is not able to reach.

Agreed. I still think Nolan over-reacted. But WB should have offered him some creative input. Maybe they did, for all I know.

Just to bad we can't get one combined universe.

 

[jmc]

I know, that's why I understand his anger. But still, if he cared for the bigger picture he would at least try to listen to what they have to say and not go all ape-**** over the news.

But then again, he's an artist. But Batman is bigger then Nolan, Batman is bigger then Bale. One should respect that, because Nolan must understand he is working on another artists creation.

I don't think Nolan has any interest in his Batman excisting in a universe with superheroes. But what done is done. But the JL movie takes a bit of the Hype out of Nolans franchise. Batman solo-movies are a bit old news now.

Nolan had a vision for Batman, not JL, if he has no interest in helping develop a JL film that's his call, he may not know if the idea is worth it, I don't know I'm not him, he has his reasons. From an artists point of view, he's created this film which is praised by many, suddenly someone else comes in with a different yet similar concept, suddenly his film takes a back seat, as you said it may take the wind out of the sails.

For Nolan it's a two-part dilemma, if the JL film is successful and the Batman is better than his, people could start dismissing his Batman as inferior, potentially ruining the 3rd film, if JL fails dramatically, people could shy away from future superhero films, again potentially ruining the 3rd film. That's what would fear him the most, I know it would for me, putting all that time an effort into a project only to have it be derailed by preventable circumstances.

 

[Ring Deacon]

Nolan being mad over Talia being used in JLA means to me that he had plans to use her in Batman 3 maybe. It would make sense to use her to help finish off his trilogy.

 

[fu manchu]

tough break for routh, i guess. He didn't get a chance to have a say on this.

 

[dark_b]

Too bad we miss the opportunity to have one DC universe. I can understan Nolans irritation, but still it seems a bit selfish.

So instead of one universe we will have to live with a gazillion. I'm okay with it, but knowing what could be, it's a bit frustrating.

first everything here is speculation. nothing is fact.
second: nolan is angry that they are using ra's.....speculation. now lets say that this is true that NOLAN IS ONLY ANGRY. and because nolan is angry bale doesnt want to be in JL.
tell me where is the selfish part?

 

[Lando]

I'd find it very funny if Singer is let go, so he testifies that Superman doesn't belong to either DC or Sigel but is public domain because he has attained the "myth" status.

 

[Dotten]

first everything here is speculation. nothing is fact.
second: nolan is angry that they are using ra's.....speculation. now lets say that this is true that NOLAN IS ONLY ANGRY. and because nolan is angry bale doesnt want to be in JL.
tell me where is the selfish part?

Why else would he get angry? "Mine mine mine Batman". If he had DC universes best interest at heart he would go along with Batman being in the same universe as the other heroes. But no. If the rumor is correct. So that is a bit selfish.

In Nolan I trust, but I am a bit disappointed if it turns out he is the cause of us not having a united DC universe.

 

[FaT_tONle]

I thought WB was rushing JLA into production before the whole Hollywood Strike everyone is taking.

Isn't Nolan and Bale contracted for 3 movies with the one of the 3 optioned as either a Batman and Superman team up or JLA movie.

I just think Nolan wants to tell his Batman story. He isn't really intrested in the other superheroes. Batman more suits his type of filmmaking. As for Bale he probabley wouldn't make a movie if the script wasn't good enough or he needed the money. Also he said he would only make Batman films if Nolan was there. He probabley doesn't want to play Batman in a JLA movie unless Nolan directs and nolan isn't intrested.

I disagree... if they let Bale finish his gig with Nolan and then approached hiim about an ensemble it would be different. Batman made Bale... he knows this... I am confident he would return for a fourth installment mega blockbuster ensemble film... ofcourse it would cost about 30 million to bring him on board... but Bale is already a huge name... he would deserve that kind of money by the time hit hits his late thirties and the B.O would easily make up those number... W.B is impatient and they will ****e out these characters one by one and all we can do is sit back and watch slowly and painfully. Heck... even a Nolan third is in jeapordy now... I can easily see another X3 or SM3 situation where the studio takes control of that.

 

[The Guard]

Guard, make your list and then post it in one go please.

But that's so much WORK!

hmm, gonna have to disagree with you there Guard. Caviezel is a good actor, but i have a hard time imagining him as Batman, even an older version. there's something about the guy i just find lacking.

A Batsuit?

theres a certain "softness" to Caviezel that makes him a mismatch for any of the superhero roles, at least as far as DC goes.

The man's shown enough intensity over the course of his career to make him a great choice for be either Batman, Superman or even Green Lantern. I don't see why his ability to be softer is an issue. He's an actor, and he can do intense and stoic when he wants. We've seen it. Bale has a certain softness to him, too. And it worked out well. It would work out well, as Batman is a compassionate and thoughtful character at his best.

Depp as Bruce Wayne? no. Depp as Tony Stark, maybe. i know that these roles are just the counterpart of each other in the comic book world, but there are vibes/ presence/ bearing that certain actors give out that makes them suited to one role over the other. this is one of those cases.

I think I know what you mean by this, but elaborate. Depp could easily alter his "vibes" to play Bruce Wayne.

hell i missed my church service discussing stuff here. i'm trying catch a later schedule.

Apologies. It was endless shrimp.

I don't think Nolan is being selfish at all. JL is intended to come out BETWEEN his Bat-Films. And since it has Bats AND an al Ghul in it, general audience WILL associate it with his films.

Only loosely. I don't see the issue.

He feels (and rightly so, imo) that work outside of his control and not his own will have an impact on audience reaction to/opinion of his 3rd Bats film.

I'm sorry, I just don't see this as a valid concern. If anything, Nolan can only gain from JUSTICE LEAGUE, regardless of the situation.

If the JUSTICE LEAGUE Batman is worse than Nolan's, it's win win for Chris Nolan come BATMAN 3. The worst thing that can happen is someone brings more personality to Batman or just flat out writes him better and more interestingly, and people like it more than Nolan's. At which point, if Nolan is smart, he will learn from this and evolve his character a bit as he furthers his career in BATMAN. But I just don't see what people's actual concern is.

Either people will love the JUSTICE LEAGUE Batman and want more Batman, period (BATMAN 3) or they will hate it compared to Nolan's and embrace Nolan's better version when it comes out. This isn't a political movement, people, it's a general audience deciding whether or not to see an action film that they'd probably see anyway.

If JL bombs, his film will NOT perform as well as it might have otherwise.

Why? Explain why this relationship would take place. Are people suddenly going to forget that BATMAN BEGINS and THE DARK KNIGHT were good movies?

I think Nolan is just genuinely concerned that JL could potentially damage his project. He's an artist and artists are very protective of their work, I know, I'm one of them.

How could JUSTICE LEAGUE damage his PROJECT, which hasn't even begun, and may not even be conceptualized? The only time I could see Nolan having a beef is if he planned on using Talia Al Ghul. But as he never even mentioned her in BATMAN BEGINS, so it seems to be she's fair game. Besides, he's got all kinds of interesting options for BATMAN 3: Catwoman, an Arkham assembly, Hugo Strange...

But then again, he's an artist. But Batman is bigger then Nolan, Batman is bigger then Bale. One should respect that, because Nolan must understand he is working on another artists creation.

Exactly.

I don't think Nolan has any interest in his Batman excisting in a universe with superheroes.

That's all well and good, and no one's telling Chris Nolan to add superheroes to his Batman films. No one's going "Chris, your BATMAN 3 is going to be BATMAN AND SUPERMAN now". This is JUSTICE LEAGUE, though, where Batman HAS existed with superheroes for decades. The fact that Nolan would prefer to showcase Batman solo has not changed.

But what done is done. But the JL movie takes a bit of the Hype out of Nolans franchise. Batman solo-movies are a bit old news now.

There were four Batman films before BATMAN BEGINS. They were already "old news". It's the filmmakers job to make them interesting. And Nolan has an entire mythology to draw from. I don't feel bad for him.

however i dont think Bale being in the JL movie would've done any damage to his franchise, it anything it would bring in more people his franchise is not able to reach.

I don't buy that Bale isn't doing JUSTICE LEAGUE because Nolan may be upset. I think he's not doing JUSTICE LEAGUE because he'd probably like to make films other than Batman over the rest of his career.

Bale making two massive superhero movies in such a short amount of time would have limited what he could do in terms of other films, and somewhat hurt his career prospects. I don't think he wants to be Batman forever.

Nolan had a vision for Batman, not JL, if he has no interest in helping develop a JL film that's his call, he may not know if the idea is worth it, I don't know I'm not him, he has his reasons. From an artists point of view, he's created this film which is praised by many, suddenly someone else comes in with a different yet similar concept, suddenly his film takes a back seat, as you said it may take the wind out of the sails.

What sails? Nolan doesn't exist just to get praised for his Batman films. He's a director who can do other projects. It's going to be a year after THE DARK KNIGHT when JUSTICE LEAGUE comes out. Plenty of time for NOlan to bask in any perceived "glory" from THE DARK KNIGHT. People will not exactly still be "talking" about THE DARK KNIGHT in 2009. Again, this isn't politics, and it's not a world social movement. It's a Summer blockbuster.

For Nolan it's a two-part dilemma, if the JL film is successful and the Batman is better than his, people could start dismissing his Batman as inferior, potentially ruining the 3rd film, if JL fails dramatically, people could shy away from future superhero films, again potentially ruining the 3rd film.

If JUSTICE LEAGUE presents a Batman so far above Nolans, then perhaps Nolan, at that point, should look at why his Batman doesn't measure up, and "evolve" him a bit in BATMAN 3. I don't expect this to be the case, though.

That's what would fear him the most, I know it would for me, putting all that time an effort into a project only to have it be derailed by preventable circumstances.

This is an irrational fear and very preventable situation.

Nolan being mad over Talia being used in JLA means to me that he had plans to use her in Batman 3 maybe. It would make sense to use her to help finish off his trilogy.

Not really. It made sense to use her in BATMAN BEGINS. What would make sense to finish his trilogy in continuing the story of Two-Face and adding The Joker back into the mix, and possibly introducing Catwoman.

I see no logical reason for the third Batman film to be in jeopardy. At all.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

I disagree... if they let Bale finish his gig with Nolan and then approached hiim about an ensemble it would be different. Batman made Bale... he knows this... I am confident he would return for a fourth installment mega blockbuster ensemble film... ofcourse it would cost about 30 million to bring him on board... but Bale is already a huge name... he would deserve that kind of money by the time hit hits his late thirties and the B.O would easily make up those number... W.B is impatient and they will ****e out these characters one by one and all we can do is sit back and watch slowly and painfully. Heck... even a Nolan third is in jeapordy now... I can easily see another X3 or SM3 situation where the studio takes control of that.

I think in all likelihood we will get a "Ratner" type replacement to close off the Batman trilogy. Especially if this news about being upset is in fact true, even if he is under contract, WB won't keep him around when he is annoyed with the studio. I've already accepted this. For one reason or another Nolan will not be back for Batman 3. I was looking forward to the first great superhero trilogy(X-Men failed and so did Spidey) but it looks like it won't happen with Nolan's Batman. Perhaps Iron Man will achieve this.

 

[The Guard]

See, that's just childish. If Nolan quits because someone else is using a character?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

See, that's just childish. If Nolan quits because someone else is using a character?

I agree, it is childish. I say if he has a vision, then just stick to that and finish out your movies. Don't concern yourself with what is going on around you. Plus, he should want to finish what he started. But I just get the feeling this won't happen. It just always seems so difficult to keep a director on board for 3 movies(with the exception of Raimi).

 

[The Guard]

He's under contract.

 

[FlawlessVictory]

He's under contract.

I understand that. But if he is that annoyed I seriously doubt WB would want to keep around that unhappy of a director. They can both reach an agreement that will allow him to be released out of his contract. Then WB can just plug in some random director and know the audience will still show up since Nolan built up a decent enough of a franchise. Sort of like fans showing up for X3, based on what was built up in X2. Of course, there is not that much to support my line of thinking here, but again, it's just the feeling that I get.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I agree. I'd hate for Nolan to quit and they fill his void with a hack who is only interested in getting paid.

 

[jmc]

The Guard,

Just out of curiosity, are you involved in the arts in anyway?

 

[The Guard]

I understand that. But if he is that annoyed I seriously doubt WB would want to keep around that unhappy of a director.

I doubt Nolan's THAT unhappy. If he is, again, that's just childish. The only source that he's not pleased is from Robert Sanchez, who, let's face it, has been semi-accurate, but not exactly bang-on this whole time when it comes to scoops. I very much doubt Nolan is so angry he'd give up the chance to work with fine actors and complete his superhero masterpiece just because he can't use Talia or Ra's Al Ghul again (and there's nothing saying he can't, really).

They can both reach an agreement that will allow him to be released out of his contract.

How?

Then WB can just plug in some random director and know the audience will still show up since Nolan built up a decent enough of a franchise. Sort of like fans showing up for X3, based on what was built up in X2. Of course, there is not that much to support my line of thinking here, but again, it's just the feeling that I get.

Maybe fans showed up to X3 because it looked like a damn good film and had more to it than just who was directing it? Great special effects, decent music, actors like Mckellan, Jackman, Grammer, Jannssen, Marsden, Paquin, It's not like people don't show up to Brett Ratner's other movies, too. I don't consider X3 to be a huge failure like so many fans do. But that's another discussion.

Just out of curiosity, are you involved in the arts in anyway?

Sort of. Not professionally. I was in a lot of theatre in college, a few shows since, have written a few fanfilm projects, and I write fanfiction and my own stuff, just kinda for fun, but I'm not involved in the arts professionally. Why do you ask?

 

[FlawlessVictory]

How?

Where there's a will, there's a way. That, and the "Al Ghul" clause in his contract which allows him to opt out under circumstances like this. t: