Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[That9neGuy]

They can get it right. But they need to see what Disney has with MCU and Star Wars run as their own independant studios with a solid team of honchos and producers to help guide the film makers better than whoever was responsible for stopping BvS dead in it's tracks so Wonder Woman can watch youtube.

A million times this, if you can't integrate the characters into the narrative, don't put them in the movie, it makes no sense to shoehorn them in and halt the flow.

 

[BatJediOfGotham]

Personally, with MOS & BvS, I think they are getting it right. I loved both films and I understand what they're doing with these characters. Sure, they have a lot of kinks to iron out moving forward; that I'm definitely in agreement with.

With the critical feedback that BvS received, I'm sure that WB will adjust where necessary. The worst thing I can say about BvS is that a lot of the plot lines were muddled and, clearly, just thrown in last minute. That's what happens, though, when a film evolves so much between the original concept and the final product. Snyder didn't have a clear direction, and that shows.

Suicide Squad is, naturally, going to be a step in the right direction and I feel like that will win general audiences back over. Wonder Woman is going to be the one to really determine whether or not this franchise is doomed.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Except I'm not sure Zack Snyder will do a better job on Justice League then Miller would have, really Snyder milestone holding the DCUE down at this point.

Oops, I meant Smith there. But from what we've seen of Miller's failed project, it looked and sounded pretty bad.

 

[Brian Braddock]

You gotta lay the right foundations first before you can build on it. I don't believe that DC have ever had a clear vision from the get go, unlike Marvel. Having movies featuring incarnations of characters that were self-contained and not part of a shared universe doesn't exactly help when you're then trying to establish a shared universe, either.

 

[batfreakforever]

The DC universe should be 100% completely different from Marvel but I'm afraid people are forcing DC to be like Marvel.

 

[That9neGuy]

The DC universe should be 100% completely different from Marvel but I'm afraid people are forcing DC to be like Marvel.

I disagree with that. They should do whatever suits the characters and stories the best. If that is fun and light so be it, if it's dark and gritty then do that. Forcing a tone onto characters it doesn't suit does nothing to benefit that

 

[dude stannis]

I don't think you need to be dead serious for your film to still be ambitious and weighty. A Flash movie could be a DC epic style film while maintaining a sense of humour. They just need to make sure it's a good well made film.

 

[The Apocalypse]

The DC universe should be 100% completely different from Marvel but I'm afraid people are forcing DC to be like Marvel.

In what way? DC should have went the Marvel route when it comes to building up to a JL movie instead of rushing it. A build up from MoS to 2019 or 2020 for a JL movie would be worth the wait. I'm not saying it still won't work but it will affect how much the GA is invested in the characters who show up for the first time.

 

[Erzengel]

I don't think it was necessarily rushing it. Maybe they could have done WW first? Instead of going doing a prequel movie next year.

I thought that Dawn of Justice would be Batman assembling a team of metas to take down Superman only then to fight a bigger threat.

They went with the Dark Knight Returns which is a huge mistake considering Batman was the protagonist in that story.

They didn't need to build up Superman or Batman, one Batman action sequence in the beginning is all you would have needed.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I don't think you need to be dead serious for your film to still be ambitious and weighty. A Flash movie could be a DC epic style film while maintaining a sense of humour. They just need to make sure it's a good well made film.

Exactly. There's plenty of humor in The Lord of the Rings, Star Wars and even Game of Thrones, yet the stakes still feel dire. You just need a director and a writer who can balance that out accordingly. Snyder clearly can't, and it seems neither can Terrio.

 

[dude stannis]

I'm not saying they all need to have humour in there. There's enough jokes and stuff in BvS for me, but I just don't think they all need to strike the same amount of humour, some need more, some will need less, it's about determining the right amount.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I don't think it was necessarily rushing it. Maybe they could have done WW first? Instead of going doing a prequel movie next year.

I thought that Dawn of Justice would be Batman assembling a team of metas to take down Superman only then to fight a bigger threat.

They went with the Dark Knight Returns which is a huge mistake considering Batman was the protagonist in that story.

They didn't need to build up Superman or Batman, one Batman action sequence in the beginning is all you would have needed.

That would have been a good idea as well.

 

[cleverusername8]

To me, the best course of action for DC would be to open with Justice League then spin out individual stories from there.

One key difference in situation between DC and Marvel is that people have a general idea of who each of the big players in the DC Universe are and what their powers are. Plenty of people would be able to identify a picture of Wonder Woman and know that she flies and is super strong, the Flash who can run at super speed, Green Lantern who has a ring that creates large green objects, and Aquaman who can telepathically communicate with sea life. The details of their backstories might be lost on plenty of them, but they at least understand all of the basics.

Therefore, establishing all of them in solo adventures building up to a big team up isn't as necessary as it was for Marvel back in '08 when people thought Iron Man was a song and Thor was simply a being from mythology. WB could have come right out of the gate with a strong Justice League movie that brings together all of these icons and allude to key plot points that would be fully fleshed out in solo movies in the following years.

People are going to say what they want in regards to DC "copying" or "rushing to catch up" irregardless of what plan WB went with, so it's not worth trying to dodge these people's comments.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I'm not saying it wouldn't have worked, it's just hard to be invested in characters you never seen screen before. (besides Supes and Batman) Especially when they all need to share screen time. It's not just about their powers.

 

[Micromind]

To me, the best course of action for DC would be to open with Justice League then spin out individual stories from there.

One key difference in situation between DC and Marvel is that people have a general idea of who each of the big players in the DC Universe are and what their powers are. Plenty of people would be able to identify a picture of Wonder Woman and know that she flies and is super strong, the Flash who can run at super speed, Green Lantern who has a ring that creates large green objects, and Aquaman who can telepathically communicate with sea life. The details of their backstories might be lost on plenty of them, but they at least understand all of the basics.

Therefore, establishing all of them in solo adventures building up to a big team up isn't as necessary as it was for Marvel back in '08 when people thought Iron Man was a song and Thor was simply a being from mythology. WB could have come right out of the gate with a strong Justice League movie that brings together all of these icons and allude to key plot points that would be fully fleshed out in solo movies in the following years.

People are going to say what they want in regards to DC "copying" or "rushing to catch up" irregardless of what plan WB went with, so it's not worth trying to dodge these people's comments.

Agreed after numerous Batman movies and numerous Superman movies, these two heroes need no introduction.

After successful Flash series on CW (and the older Flash series on CBS, with many appearances in various animated series and animated movies) Flash needs no introduction, he is no Ant-Man or War Machine, everyone knows Flash.

After Lynda Carter WW series and now WW in BvS and again a solo WW movie, WW is well established.

After Green Lantern movie and Green Lantern The Animated series, and his appearances in many animated series, video games etc. Green Lantern needs no introduction.


So they can just jump into Justice League movie with Batman , Superman, Flash WW and GL.

 

[The Apocalypse]

You're forgetting the fact that they aren't putting GL in it. Also, there is so much more to the WW character than her strength, which, I'm pretty sure that's all the GA knows about her. You could get away with Flash not having his own solo film but you'd kind of need something with Aquaman and Cyborg. Most people on here probably know who they are and their story but if I walked into JL with no knowledge of Cyborg, I wouldn't give a damn who he was. So when they said he's going to be in JL without an intro movie, I thought it was a bit weird.

 

[2kt09]

He's a jock who ended up as the IT guy because of some accident.
That Cyborg solo isn't highly demanded.
Practically anyone remotely interested wants him paired up with a team of other heroes.

 

[Loki882]

I agree with those that say that WB/DC seems to lack a truly coherent plan. They did MOS, which was "controversial." Then they decided that they needed to try and address some of the criticism with that movie and also build their DCEU up quickly to try and catch up with Marvel. This led to a jumbled mess of a film that also tried to cram what Marvel did over five movies and four years, into one film. And did it in the most awkward and ill-conceived manner possible. And now they seem to be in turmoil BTS yet again.

Basically they need to sit down, come up with a coherent long-term plan, put some good people in charge and let them do their thing, and then stick with that plan instead of panicking every time one film doesn't quite live up to expectations.

 

[The Guard]

I love how it's not "coherent" because it's not what certain people want the plan to be.

How exactly is BVS trying to cram what Marvel did over five movies into one film?

They introduced a new character and a new supporting character. They introduced the idea of a larger universe via Justice League cameos and a subplot about Luthor's metahuman thesis/surveillance work.

If anything, BVS is more akin to IRON MAN 2, which was Marvel's second or third film, depending on whether you feel THE INCREDIBLE HULK counts.

 

[Mandon Knight]

I agree with those that say that WB/DC seems to lack a truly coherent plan. They did MOS, which was "controversial." Then they decided that they needed to try and address some of the criticism with that movie and also build their DCEU up quickly to try and catch up with Marvel. This led to a jumbled mess of a film that also tried to cram what Marvel did over five movies and four years, into one film. And did it in the most awkward and ill-conceived manner possible. And now they seem to be in turmoil BTS yet again.

Basically they need to sit down, come up with a coherent long-term plan, put some good people in charge and let them do their thing, and then stick with that plan instead of panicking every time one film doesn't quite live up to expectations.

I don't think it's the studio that are panicking, it's everybody else that feels because they didn't like BvS for any number of reasons, screaming it's all over and and re-boot-itis kicks in, which is absurd.

 

[batfreakforever]

I think that some don't want to admit that it only took DC 2 films leading into Justice League and it took Marvel to milk nearly 15+ films to get to their big bad Thanos.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think that some don't want to admit that it only took DC 2 films leading into Justice League and it took Marvel to milk nearly 15+ films to get to their big bad Thanos.

That's absolutely right!

How stupid and bad Marvel have been to make 9 billion dollars on the way to a battle with Thanos with a series of well received, well reviewed movies.

Why, it's much better to get straight into the team movie after two poorly received, underwhelming movies that disappointed at the box office and were divisive amongst fans and the GA!

 

[batfreakforever]

That's absolutely right!

How stupid and bad Marvel have been to make 9 billion dollars on the way to a battle with Thanos with a series of well received, well reviewed movies.

Why, it's much better to get straight into the team movie after two poorly received, underwhelming movies that disappointed at the box office and were divisive amongst fans and the GA!

Thanks buddy.

 

[Saint]

That's absolutely right!

How stupid and bad Marvel have been to make 9 billion dollars on the way to a battle with Thanos with a series of well received, well reviewed movies.

Pretty much. Marvel created the model that DC is now trying to emulate; the claim that Marvel's model is somehow stupid would be a direct indictment of DC's present approach.

Also, DC vs. Marvel crap = dumb. I don't know about you guys but I want all comic book movies to be good.

 

[The Apocalypse]

I think that some don't want to admit that it only took DC 2 films leading into Justice League and it took Marvel to milk nearly 15+ films to get to their big bad Thanos.

That's absurd lol