Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[Loki882]

Cuaron was actually one of my preferred choices to direct a future Star Wars movie. However, seeing him on a DC project could be really cool as well.

 

[Jonwo]

Cuaron was actually one of my preferred choices to direct a future Star Wars movie. However, seeing him on a DC project could be really cool as well.

He'd be great for Justice League Dark if Del Tero was no longer attached but I'm not sure which of the mainstream DC characters would suit his directing style, maybe Aquaman?

 

[Gabe99]

Will Ben Affleck’s New Status Change The Tone of Justice League?

Since it was announced on Friday that Justice League star Ben Affleck will also serve as an executive producer on the film, a lot of the discussion has centered on the possibility the tone of the film will change from the dark and gritty feel of Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice to the more pop-infused feel of Marvel‘s Cinematic Universe. And, indeed, if one tone is superior to the other.

But the notion that Justice League will more closely resemble its cross-town team counterpart presumes Warner Bros. has lost its faith in the tone established by director Zack Snyder, writers David S. Goyer, Chris Terrio and Dark Knight trilogy mastermind Christopher Nolan. Which, at least from a numbers standpoint seems unlikely. The darker, grounded tone of the recent Batman cycle was a consistent money maker for the studio. In fact, it was impressive enough for former studio chief Jeff Robinov to announce the studio would make the DC Comics characters “go dark to the extent that the characters allow it.”

Though Robinov is long gone, that vision is realized in Batman v Superman and while its $864 million worldwide box office would seem solid proof the approach works, the court of public opinion suggests the film is not quite so successful.

Which brings us back to the tone problem. With Marvel and its mutant cousin Deadpool — produced by 20th Century Fox — setting box office records on fire with its seemingly less serious films, there’s definitely a perception that Warner Bros. is chasing the tone and hoping it will translate into bigger grosses. But isn’t that the same problem as trying to take the characters dark to emulate Batman?

A Flash film in which Barry curses his ability to run would be as odd as Batman movie directly inspired by the pop sensibilities of the 1960s Batman TV series — in fact, we know exactly what that would look like thanks to 1997’s Batman & Robin. An R-rated Superman movie in which the Man of Steel was free to curse and talk to the audience would be a misread of the characters as well. Each character has a tone that works best, but in a film which they all appear, one must dominate.

For Justice League, it would seem to be the more apocalyptic tone would be correct. The group faces alien invasions, the incomprehensible menace of New Gods and reality-shattering red skies with regularity and it’s not exactly the best place for yuck-fests.

That’s even assuming this is Affleck’s concern. Considering his own work as a filmmaker, he wouldn’t necessarily be intent on turning the Justice League films into Ant-Man — though rumors persist the recent Suicide Squad reshoots were intended to add humor to the film. If Affleck’s contributions as an executive producer do lean that way, he may be focused on finding those character moments that naturally generate humor. In Argo, he demonstrated an ability to maintain a serious tone with a number of funny or light moments.

It is doubtful the first Justice League film, already in production, will change all that much, but it would seem the DC film universe may be changing from its initial Nolan-inspired groundings. And certainly that will be good for some of the characters as darker Flashes, Blue Beetles and Ambush Bugs would be an odd choice to make.

 

[Gabe99]

IS THE WARNER BROS. DC UNIVERSE DOOMED?

As if Captain America: Civil War’s near record-setting success wasn’t bad enough for Warner Bros., there was also the loss of The Flash director Seth Grahame-Smith over “creative differences.” With at least 10 more DC movies coming out in the next three-and-a-half-years, it’s worth asking: is the DCCU doomed?

 

[HighFivingMF]

Nope.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I would be more worried if SS/WW goes over terribly. If those two films arent hits critically/financially then JL sure as hell doesnt stand a chance.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Maybe. If Justice League goes splat, then it is very possible.

 

[Rowsdower!]

WB keeps bringing in actors from the Spider-Man movies for JL. Maybe they should consider bringing in the director as well.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm late to this party but I posted this somewhere else:

Whedon's Wonder Woman
Superman Lives
Aronofsky's Year One
JJ Abrams' Superman
Wolfgang Peterson's Batman vs. Superman

Let's not forget that MOS is technically DCEU Version 2.0 after Green Lantern bombed.

Reading the synopsis and why most of them failed, you have to wonder if WB besides the obvious exceptions if they really do have a grasp on comic book movies.

 

[metaphysician]

I don't think there's any wondering involved. WB is the proverbial monkey with a typewriter. They produce good DC movies when, by chance, they happen to pick good creatives to put in charge. . . which they do largely by luck, not by any understanding of the material. Honestly, even Fox strikes me as having more understanding.

 

[The Apocalypse]

IS THE WARNER BROS. DC UNIVERSE DOOMED?

Doomed might not be the right word. If SS and WW aren't good though, I'd be a bit worried. I will always say, no matter what, DC should have straight up done a MOS sequel and not BvS. I didn't think BvS was bad but once plans for JL was in place, they should have taken their time.

MOS
MOS 2 with a Batman tease at the end
SS - you could include bits of Batman in that as well
WW
Aquaman
JL 1 - introduce Cyborg in film

and so on

With Flash already on TV, on top of people already knowing his power and how it works you don't need a solo film just yet. WW while a beloved character, her backstory is quite known. Aquaman, most non comic readers say "oh, the guy who lives in water and talks to fish" so a solo movie before a group team up would be perfect to introduce him to the GA. Once JL hits, you can focus more so on Batman in that since he's WB's cash cow.

I really feel like they're rushing everything to soon and it's all going to feel forced. I wish they sort have went the Marvel route instead of just jumping into the team up movie.

 

[Marvel Knight]

DCEU is doing more to encourage superhero fatigue than combat it.

Those dropoff numbers and poor legs for BVS still blow my mind.

Movies of BVS's budget and exposure should not have cinemascores tied with Elektra and Catwoman.

 

[Victarion]

They do offer a different flavor for those of the audience that can't get into the greater MCU for whatever reason, so I wouldn't call it fatigue. If they were mimicking Marvel and doing it badly, I'd say you have a better case for them contributing to superhero fatigue.

Improvements? I would suggest better editing, a longer movie if needs be, more establishing shots, and less reliance on CGI for the bad guys; or go for broke and do Gollum-tier CGI when it comes to major baddies like this Steppenwolf and Darkseid whenever.

 

[regwec]

A cursory glance at your username and signature has the effect of muting your opinion.

 

[Victarion]

I'm named after the hero of GRRM's Ice and Fire novels; how does it impact my opinion?

 

[Boy Scout]

I think he was taking to Marvel Knight.

 

[Boom]

Speaking only for myself, DC's last two outings have been disappointing because they're more interesting in challenging the idea of superheroes rather than celebrating it, and the results are bleak, emotionally numb, and devoid of aspiration. For a character like Superman especially, that's inexcusable.

I'm hoping Wonder Woman rights the ship.

 

[Victarion]

^I think that's why I found them more interesting, but I can certainly see why others wouldn't care for this approach (felt the same way about how my man King Stannis was handled).

 

[The Apocalypse]

They do offer a different flavor for those of the audience that can't get into the greater MCU for whatever reason, so I wouldn't call it fatigue. If they were mimicking Marvel and doing it badly, I'd say you have a better case for them contributing to superhero fatigue.

Improvements? I would suggest better editing, a longer movie if needs be, more establishing shots, and less reliance on CGI for the bad guys; or go for broke and do Gollum-tier CGI when it comes to major baddies like this Steppenwolf and Darkseid whenever.

I'm with you on the better editing. One of the things that bothered me about BvS and MOS was the overbearing soundtrack in the background, especially during regular talking scenes.

 

[CaptainWagner]

IS THE WARNER BROS. DC UNIVERSE DOOMED?

Seriously?

Civil War's success is GOOD for Warner Brothers. When any CBM is successful, it's good for all the companies, not just the one that made it. And people are still trying to make a problem out of that crappy director leaving Flash?

 

[Gabe99]

Seriously?

Civil War's success is GOOD for Warner Brothers. When any CBM is successful, it's good for all the companies, not just the one that made it. And people are still trying to make a problem out of that crappy director leaving Flash?

He is the third director to quit.

Variety APRIL 17, 2015:
‘Wonder Woman’: The Story Behind Michelle MacLaren’s Exit

The studio is declining to elaborate on the cliched “creative differences” joint statement that was issued when the two parted ways. But, according to multiple sources close to the project, the director’s vision for the movie was vastly different from the studio’s view. MacLaren envisioned the DC Comics-based “Wonder Woman” movie as an epic origin tale in the vein of “Braveheart,” whereas Warner wanted a more character-driven story that was less heavy on action.

Variety MARCH 5, 2016:
Joseph Gordon-Levitt Drops Out of ‘The Sandman’
Joseph Gordon-Levitt has ditched his “Sandman” project at New Line due to disagreement with the studio.


What We Missed When George Miller's Justice League Movie Was Cancelled

Actor D.J. Cotrona, who was set to play Superman in Justice League: Mortal, told Slash Film that fans missed out on seeing director George Miller’s gigantic interpretation, citing this year’s Mad Max: Fury Road as proof of what he could have accomplished with the DC heroes. Cotrona said:]

The best way I can describe it is: George Miller’s mind is so operatic and big and expansive, it’s a shame that the world didn’t get to see what he would do with superheroes. It was allegorical, like a story of Greek Gods almost. He was doing things with the Superman character and Batman character, and all the iconic favorites, that’s never been done before. Watch Fury Road and you can only imagine what he would do with those iconic characters.

 

[jmc]

The DCEU might not be doomed, but it sure is hell isn't on firm foundations.

 

[dude stannis]

They can get it right. But they need to see what Disney has with MCU and Star Wars run as their own independant studios with a solid team of honchos and producers to help guide the film makers better than whoever was responsible for stopping BvS dead in it's tracks so Wonder Woman can watch youtube.

 

[CaptainWagner]

He is the third director to quit.

Variety APRIL 17, 2015:
‘Wonder Woman’: The Story Behind Michelle MacLaren’s Exit


Variety MARCH 5, 2016:
Joseph Gordon-Levitt Drops Out of ‘The Sandman’
Joseph Gordon-Levitt has ditched his “Sandman” project at New Line due to disagreement with the studio.


What We Missed When George Miller's Justice League Movie Was Cancelled

Sandman wasn't part of the DCEU. And MacLaren leaving was never forseen as an issue until now, when everyone is desperately looking for "proof" of failure.

It's also important to point out that Miller and MacLaren didn't nesecarily quit. They could have gotten the boot. After all, if the rumors are true, MacLaren had some pretty crappy ideas. Both of these movies are better off without the original directors.

 

[The Overlord]

Sandman wasn't part of the DCEU. And MacLaren leaving was never forseen as an issue until now, when everyone is desperately looking for "proof" of failure.

It's also important to point out that Miller and MacLaren didn't nesecarily quit. They could have gotten the boot. After all, if the rumors are true, MacLaren had some pretty crappy ideas. Both of these movies are better off without the original directors.

Except I'm not sure Zack Snyder will do a better job on Justice League then Miller would have, really Snyder milestone holding the DCUE down at this point.