Why Can't DC Get it right? - Part 1

[The Batman]

I don't get why people are so worked up that Guardians of the Galaxy is happening before Wonder Woman or Flash... Who cares? Swamp Thing and Steel got movies before most Marvel heroes. Did that mean Marvel was doomed and would never make a good movie? Nope. Everyone got movies eventually just like Wonder Woman, The Flash, The Justice League, and Green Arrow will. It isn't "now or never," it's "now or whenever you can. Movies, comics, and viewers aren't going anywhere."

People are worked up Because fanboys love being neurotic about the dumbest ****, and if you point out the facts, its either ignored or you're written off as a WB apologist. This thread often feels like people are just mad that WB wont support their dream of having a fanboy pissing contest between DC films and Marvel ones.

Like you said, tons of lower tier characters have had movies out before some of the big ones, but there's a double standard.

 

[jmc]

i guess michael bay had passion for transformers

You could make the argument he did.

 

[TheVileOne]

DC can't get it right because Diane Nelson doesn't have the right background to head up DCE and Geoff Johns is no Kevin Feige. They don't have any long-term planning in place and they refuse to do so. They are scared to say anything definitively about what they want to do and don't want to make any firm commitments.

Like when I asked Geoff Johns about having a DC cinematic universe, he tap-danced around it and just wouldn't say no they want to keep everything separate.

 

[jmc]

That's probably because both he and Diane don't have the power to say one way or the other. Those decisions will always come from WB.

 

[TheVileOne]

And therein lies the problem. Diane Nelson was a hand-picked person who worked on the Harry Potter franchise and nothing DC related previously. She knew probably next to nothing about the DCU when she took the post.

 

[Docker2.0]

Good points jmc and Vile. I'm so glad this hasn't turned into a f-you fest. It seems whenever anyone says anything negative about the other company the name calling starts. I do want to see a Flash movie but don't understand the WB's thinking when they plan to do a Lobo movie before any of their top tier characters.

 

[jmc]

And therein lies the problem. Diane Nelson was a hand-picked person who worked on the Harry Potter franchise and nothing DC related previously. She knew probably next to nothing about the DCU when she took the post.

But she still has no control over what WB do. You're pointing fingers at the wrong people.

 

[HighFivingMF]

Good points jmc and Vile. I'm so glad this hasn't turned into a f-you fest. It seems whenever anyone says anything negative about the other company the name calling starts. I do want to see a Flash movie but don't understand the WB's thinking when they plan to do a Lobo movie before any of their top tier characters.

Flash is a tentpole that will tie into an even bigger tentpole. Lobo is a low-budget property they have. That property happens to be based on a DC comic. People need to stop pulling the Lobo card. Completely different situations.

The way it went down:
"Hey, Brad. We're really impressed with the Journey 2 numbers. What would you like to do next?"
"Hmm. I notice you have a Lobo project on the shelf. I'd like to take a stab at that."
"Great. Give us your pitch and we'll see if this can work out!"

The way people here see it:
"We should capitalize on our DC movies. How about The Flash?"
"No we haves to has da LOOOBOOO! DERRRR! LOOOBOOO much better popular! Derr I WB!"
"But people are waiting for Wonder Woman!"
"NAHHHHHHDERRR! LOOBOO is da top pryer-ittttty!"

 

[TheVileOne]

But she still has no control over what WB do. You're pointing fingers at the wrong people.

I point fingers at everyone. WB and DCE. And I point fingers at WB for not appointing someone and giving them the power to make a plan or some kind of vision which they've failed to do for a long time.

 

[Docker2.0]

Flash is a tentpole that will tie into an even bigger tentpole. Lobo is a low-budget property they have. That property happens to be based on a DC comic. People need to stop pulling the Lobo card. Completely different situations.

The way it went down:
"Hey, Brad. We're really impressed with the Journey 2 numbers. What would you like to do next?"
"Hmm. I notice you have a Lobo project on the shelf. I'd like to take a stab at that."
"Great. Give us your pitch and we'll see if this can work out!"

The way people here see it:
"We should capitalize on our DC movies. How about The Flash?"
"No we haves to has da LOOOBOOO! DERRRR! LOOOBOOO much better popular! Derr I WB!"
"But people are waiting for Wonder Woman!"
"NAHHHHHHDERRR! LOOBOO is da top pryer-ittttty!"

I don't get it.

 

[jmc]

I point fingers at everyone. WB and DCE. And I point fingers at WB for not appointing someone and giving them the power to make a plan or some kind of vision which they've failed to do for a long time.

What power? She still has to get the ok from the highers up to get things done, she has no more power in green lighting a film than the canteen lady at WB. And how do we know DCE hasn't put forth some proposal to the heads at WB only for them to refuse it?

 

[The Sage]

This thread is interesting and funny. My thoughts:

Nolan's Batman trilogy isn't a fluke. It's pretty simple: WB found a very talented filmmaker who had a passion for Batman and wanted to do him justice.

It's a formula that normally breeds success, just like it did for Favreau/Iron Man, Branaugh/Thor, Johnston/Captain America, and Whedon/Avengers. It's only those rare occasions such as Superman Returns and Spider-Man 3 where it doesn't work.

Also, it's clear to me that for the time being, as long as Warner Bros are nailing the big moneymaking characters such as Batman and Superman, they aren't that focused on producing comic book films. Why? Who knows. Could be because they make movies, not just comic book movies, and can afford to not get it right all the time. Marvel Films on the other hand, comic book films are their bread and butter. They can't afford to not get it right.

I think either DC Entertainment need to get structured to the point where it almost lives and dies by their comic book films, or someone at WB needs to come up with a plan on what to do. Whichever, I hope it happens in my lifetime.

 

[The Batman]

This thread is interesting and funny. My thoughts:

Nolan's Batman trilogy isn't a fluke. It's pretty simple: WB found a very talented filmmaker who had a passion for Batman and wanted to do him justice.

It's a formula that normally breeds success, just like it did for Favreau/Iron Man, Branaugh/Thor, Johnston/Captain America, and Whedon/Avengers. It's only those rare occasions such as Superman Returns and Spider-Man 3 where it doesn't work.

Also, it's clear to me that for the time being, as long as Warner Bros are nailing the big moneymaking characters such as Batman and Superman, they aren't that focused on producing comic book films. Why? Who knows. Could be because they make movies, not just comic book movies, and can afford to not get it right all the time. Marvel Films on the other hand, comic book films are their bread and butter. They can't afford to not get it right.

I think either DC Entertainment need to get structured to the point where it almost lives and dies by their comic book films, or someone at WB needs to come up with a plan on what to do. Whichever, I hope it happens in my lifetime.

Flash is a tentpole that will tie into an even bigger tentpole. Lobo is a low-budget property they have. That property happens to be based on a DC comic. People need to stop pulling the Lobo card. Completely different situations.

The way it went down:
"Hey, Brad. We're really impressed with the Journey 2 numbers. What would you like to do next?"
"Hmm. I notice you have a Lobo project on the shelf. I'd like to take a stab at that."
"Great. Give us your pitch and we'll see if this can work out!"

The way people here see it:
"We should capitalize on our DC movies. How about The Flash?"
"No we haves to has da LOOOBOOO! DERRRR! LOOOBOOO much better popular! Derr I WB!"
"But people are waiting for Wonder Woman!"
"NAHHHHHHDERRR! LOOBOO is da top pryer-ittttty!"

Perspective?

What are you two doing?

I'm not getting my Animal Man movie before Guardians of the Galaxy, therefore DC dosent give a damn about its non batman/superman characters, and anyone who says different is biased. And don't mention Green Lantern, cause that dosen't count.

Why can't I have my Ambush Bug movie so I can engage in meaningless "My company vs your company" discussions? Is that so much to ask?

 

[Docker2.0]

This thread is interesting and funny. My thoughts:

Nolan's Batman trilogy isn't a fluke. It's pretty simple: WB found a very talented filmmaker who had a passion for Batman and wanted to do him justice.

It's a formula that normally breeds success, just like it did for Favreau/Iron Man, Branaugh/Thor, Johnston/Captain America, and Whedon/Avengers. It's only those rare occasions such as Superman Returns and Spider-Man 3 where it doesn't work.

Also, it's clear to me that for the time being, as long as Warner Bros are nailing the big moneymaking characters such as Batman and Superman, they aren't that focused on producing comic book films. Why? Who knows. Could be because they make movies, not just comic book movies, and can afford to not get it right all the time. Marvel Films on the other hand, comic book films are their bread and butter. They can't afford to not get it right.

I think either DC Entertainment need to get structured to the point where it almost lives and dies by their comic book films, or someone at WB needs to come up with a plan on what to do. Whichever, I hope it happens in my lifetime.

Get out! But we do agree and honestly I don't think WB will get it any time soon. According to multiple sites, they wanted Dicaprio to play the Riddler but Nolan said no and I'm guessing they didn't want any problems so they let him be. But had that been someone like Snyder, I'm sure it would have been that way or the highway.

 

[metaphysician]

This thread is interesting and funny. My thoughts:

Nolan's Batman trilogy isn't a fluke. It's pretty simple: WB found a very talented filmmaker who had a passion for Batman and wanted to do him justice.

It's a formula that normally breeds success, just like it did for Favreau/Iron Man, Branaugh/Thor, Johnston/Captain America, and Whedon/Avengers. It's only those rare occasions such as Superman Returns and Spider-Man 3 where it doesn't work.

Also, it's clear to me that for the time being, as long as Warner Bros are nailing the big moneymaking characters such as Batman and Superman, they aren't that focused on producing comic book films. Why? Who knows. Could be because they make movies, not just comic book movies, and can afford to not get it right all the time. Marvel Films on the other hand, comic book films are their bread and butter. They can't afford to not get it right.

I think either DC Entertainment need to get structured to the point where it almost lives and dies by their comic book films, or someone at WB needs to come up with a plan on what to do. Whichever, I hope it happens in my lifetime.

Your both right and wrong, IMO. Largely accurate, but to characterize it as not a fluke is inaccurate. The fluke, in this case, was them actually picking a good director and letting him do his thing. So the question becomes, why can't they seem to do it more than once?

 

[The Sage]

Your both right and wrong, IMO. Largely accurate, but to characterize it as not a fluke is inaccurate. The fluke, in this case, was them actually picking a good director and letting him do his thing. So the question becomes, why can't they seem to do it more than once?

Who knows. Could be the studios not having a plan, or being that focused with regards to their comic book properties.

 

[owlbungeechord]

Here is what they need to do to get a Superman movie right.
First an actual super villian would be great, especially one that could challenge him without using kryptonite.
Second, some good action/fight sequenceswould also help, admitedly more dificult to do when the hero is so powerful.
Third, end the film with a good cliffhanger/teaser. Like the camera pans down to a government folder titled "Project: Doomsday". Something to really wet the appetite for another movie.

 

[Destructus86]

That's what I don't understand Destructive! It worked for Batman because Nolan's a great director. Now everything they seem to try to make they want it to be "real." The new Arrow show will have noone with super powers but they want you to believe that a guy dressed like Robin Hood and stopping crime by bringing bow and arrows to a gun fight is based in reality. Sorry it's not! I think Marvel's approach has made their movies as real, yet as much based in fantasy as you can possibly get. WB has no clue what they are doing. You will make a Lobo and Metal men movie before a Flash or WW movie?! How crazy is that! They both have bomb written all over it. But yet you are going to hear that "quality over quantity" excuse every single time.

for me personally...I like Nolan's Batman...it's a good alternative Batman story...but it's not true to the comics at all. Which is why I prefer how Marvel does things...ground them a little in reality without hollowing out the characters.

Anyway...DC characters are even farther from realismn in the comics than Marvel...so I think DC should be going the opposite direction. For live action they should move farther away from realism.

 

[Destructus86]

This thread is interesting and funny. My thoughts:

Nolan's Batman trilogy isn't a fluke. It's pretty simple: WB found a very talented filmmaker who had a passion for Batman and wanted to do him justice.

It's a formula that normally breeds success, just like it did for Favreau/Iron Man, Branaugh/Thor, Johnston/Captain America, and Whedon/Avengers. It's only those rare occasions such as Superman Returns and Spider-Man 3 where it doesn't work.

Also, it's clear to me that for the time being, as long as Warner Bros are nailing the big moneymaking characters such as Batman and Superman, they aren't that focused on producing comic book films. Why? Who knows. Could be because they make movies, not just comic book movies, and can afford to not get it right all the time. Marvel Films on the other hand, comic book films are their bread and butter. They can't afford to not get it right.

I think either DC Entertainment need to get structured to the point where it almost lives and dies by their comic book films, or someone at WB needs to come up with a plan on what to do. Whichever, I hope it happens in my lifetime.

the problem for me is that Nolan's Batman (the character itself) is barely a shadow of the comic version.

 

[HighFivingMF]

but it's not true to the comics at all.

................................................

 

[Destructus86]

................................................

Let's see....he doesn't really make his own equipment, he gets it from Waynetech...that's fine.

There's not really much in the films that lead us to believe he's the greatest detective in the world.

Besides a scene in Batman Begins, we rarely see him blending into the shadows and striking the enemy before vanishing again.

I never once got the feeling that Batman was the real idenity and Bruce Wayne was the mask.

Where are the scenes of him using Batarangs to knock weapons out of peoples hands or grappling from overhangs?

What about Batman being a highly trained martial artist?

 

[The Guard]

What they said. Nolan has drawn from the comics, and that's great, and there are faithful elements in these flms, but he's hardly presented a comics faithful characterization/mythology for Batman, even compared to many other superhero franchises.

 

[dario2739]

First of all let's get one thing clear - Marvel screwed up a lot more films than DC ever have done, before they got it right ...Daredevil anyone!?!

But the important thing is they HAVE got the formula right now - and it's not rocket science. Two elements make their recent output a success really - 1. Good casting 2. Stick to the story... by that I mean the character's story... and don't cram too much into one film - plan ahead.

Take Green Lantern for instance. I was soooo disappointed! What a missed opportunity. DC got no. 1 wrong - casting wasn't right! And point 2. they got right in brief flashes!
Personally a GL film would have been better if Hal had got the ring from Abin Sur, but stayed earthbound the whole film, learning how to use the ring and it's power while defeating a villain... then at the end, introduce the Corps who then take him off to OA for training... leaving the sequel possibility open.

The Flash - how can anyone not see that he would make a superb comic-book movie... if DC get 1 & 2 right they've got a sure fire winner - but I won't hold my breath!

 

[Ben Breeck]

Let's see....he doesn't really make his own equipment, he gets it from Waynetech...that's fine.

There's not really much in the films that lead us to believe he's the greatest detective in the world.

Well, he's not in any position in any of the movies to actually solve a murder.

[QOUTE] Besides a scene in Batman Begins, we rarely see him blending into the shadows and striking the enemy before vanishing again. [/QUOTE]

Well, let's see. he does it at the begining of The Dark Knight. He does it again at the constuction site when the Joker is holding the ships hostage. Are we watching the same movies?

I never once got the feeling that Batman was the real idenity and Bruce Wayne was the mask.

Not even after he just lost Rachel?

Where are the scenes of him using Batarangs to knock weapons out of peoples hands or grappling from overhangs? [/QOUTE]

There's Flass. There's the construction site with the Joker.

[QOUTE] What about Batman being a highly trained martial artist?

Let's see. There's the first time against Falcone's thugs at the harbor. There's Scarecrow's henchmen at Arkham Asylum. There's the three-way rumble with robbers and Batman impersonators at the begining of The Dark Knight. There's the construction site scene with the Joker's Henchmen. There's the stand-off with Harvey Dent.

 

[BATZARRO WWD]

DC can't get it right, partially because being faced by overwhelming, multiangled 'right' by Marvel makes them look worst. The last decade and then some we've seen an absurd amount of output from Marvel characters. Not all of it by Marvel, and not all of it good, but it's sort of dispelled the way it was in our youths where stuff would never get greenlit, and even though you knew a Spider-Man movie was a good idea, some kind of stupid behind the screen shenanigans kept it from you.

But DC still feels like this it's in the 90s in terms of Superhero movies. Still mostly Batman and Superman, like the 90s. Still mostly everything else is either something no one would want, incredibly badly executed or a combination of both. WB still doesn't want to, or need to move too far into SUper Hero land because WB are not unnable to disscern between the success of trends and the success of a product just being good/liked or bad/disliked. Like in the 90s.