Why I like the Avengers

[Doc Destruction]

You obviously didn't read the sig right. Let me break it down into easy to digest pieces for you.

We, we being the fanboys that you mentioned in your opening statement, as comic book readers enjoy change that fits the flow of the book, or does not stray so far from the source material or continuity of the character's history that it hurts to read. Meaning, if it makes sense, then it works beautifully.

This is in direct opposition to your theory that we, the fanboys, hate ALL change. This argument is usually used by someone so defensive of their opinions that they lash out at any and all opposition by referring to them as close minded, as you so eloquently did in your response to me.

Now then...again...read my sig, let it sink in and stop making generalizations that are WRONG.

 

[XFanTim]

Don't come onto a comic book forum and insult comic fans with the first line of your post. Get a hobby.

And the whole "Comic fans hate change" thing is complete BS anyway. There have been lots of stories that changed the status quo and/or retconned a lot and still were incredibly popular. Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis to name two recent examples. As Doc Destruction obseved, it's bad change we don't like. And I'd perhaps add "change for the sake of change", where things aren't worsened but they aren't really improved.

Here's a simple rule: if you're going to introduce major changes in a long established character or team, and you want comic fans to like it, then have a good reason for it. That goes double if you're retconning long established history.

I swear Marvel could replace Wolverine's claws with retractable flowers and rename him Princess Snugglekins, and some idiot would come on here and tell us we're only complaining 'cause we don't like change.

 

[gildea]

depends how one defines "good change"

For me NA has been a "good change"

 

[Darthphere]

Brad meltzer recently said. (paraphrased) The great thing about comic book fans is that theyre always willing to give a book one issue, it could be excrement but theyll alwasy give it one issue.

Thats the thing, we all give it one issue, maybe an arc or two and we decided it sucked.

 

[Darthphere]

depends how one defines "good change"

For me NA has been a "good change"

Then you know nothing about the Avengers or its history.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Then you know nothing about the Avengers or its history.

I would agree with that.

 

[roach]

You obviously didn't read the sig right. Let me break it down into easy to digest pieces for you.

We, we being the fanboys that you mentioned in your opening statement, as comic book readers enjoy change that fits the flow of the book, or does not stray so far from the source material or continuity of the character's history that it hurts to read. Meaning, if it makes sense, then it works beautifully.

This is in direct opposition to your theory that we, the fanboys, hate ALL change. This argument is usually used by someone so defensive of their opinions that they lash out at any and all opposition by referring to them as close minded, as you so eloquently did in your response to me.

Now then...again...read my sig, let it sink in and stop making generalizations that are WRONG.

so what are you really saying????

 

[Doc Destruction]

so what are you really saying????

That New Avengers sucks, duh!

 

[gildea]

Thats fair enough but it's not uncommon for people to comment on the latest goings on based on those original issues.


It just seems to me that a lot of people make their minds up before reading all too frequently these days.

 

[roach]

I would agree with that.

I've actually found that Nu Avengers fans arent Avengers fans

 

[gildea]

Then you know nothing about the Avengers or its history.

all opinion darth.

As some have argued it fits in well with avengers history. I don't claim to know too much but given the way the avengers chopped and changed in the early years this doesn't seem too different.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Thats fair enough but it's not uncommon for people to comment on the latest goings on based on those original issues.


It just seems to me that a lot of people make their minds up before reading all too frequently these days.

See, I would say that the opposite is happening.

Personally, I was juiced by the line up of the NA. Then I read the first three issues and saw where it was all headed and stopped. It was garbage. Typical Bendis build up, anti-climax crap with TALKING TALKING TALKING TALKING.

So yeah, I own a few issues, I gave it a shot and it stinks. I'm willing to bet a lot of people who don't like it at least gave it a shot.

 

[Darthphere]

all opinion darth.

As some have argued it fits in well with avengers history. I don't claim to know too much but given the way the avengers chopped and changed in the early years this doesn't seem too different.

It doesnt fit well. If youre talking about Hawkeye and the maximoffs joining back in the day, thats a change that was implemented and had stuck for decades until Bendis and company decided the Avengers were boring so im going to kill some characters off and totally mess up any chance of doing anything else with some others.

 

[bkhedr]

Then you know nothing about the Avengers or its history.

I dont think that's fair

I've loved the Avengers since I was 10 years old and I dont think NA is bad at all. ( I also think its temporary)

NA is just another phase in that long illustrious history you mentioned.

And while I readily admit that many people dont like it because they dont feel like its staying true to the team, to say that anyone who happens to be enjoying it doesnt know about the Avengers or their history is one heck of a generalization dont you think?

 

[Darthphere]

I dont think that's fair

I've loved the Avengers since I was 10 years old and I dont think NA is bad at all. ( I also think its temporary)

NA is just another phase in that long illustrious history you mentioned.

And while I readily admit that many people dont like it because they dont feel like its staying true to the team, to say that anyone who happens to be enjoying it doesnt know about the Avengers or their history is one heck of a generalization dont you think?

No. To say its a good change means you dont know anything about the Avengers. Even if you like the damn title, you have to admit, it was change for the sake of change.

 

[XFanTim]

depends how one defines "good change"

For me NA has been a "good change"

Eh, you're welcome to disagree on what's good or bad change. But that's different than pretending that it's obviously good and that anyone who says they don't like it on its own merits is lying, and that you have some special insight into their soul that tells you the real reason they don't like it is because they hate all change. That's the attitude that pisses me off.

 

[MajinShenron]

Ok, I generalized comic book fans, which was wrong. But from what I've been seeing, I've seen a lot of fans hate everything that has been out in the market. And you guys generalized New Avenger fans.

For the record, I was an Old Avenger fan. But their ways didn't work out and they died. Captain America wants to form a team who helps people. Ok, yeah, we didnt see any epic stuff yet but we will eventually. I'm sure The New Avengers will play a big roll in Civil War.

 

[Darthphere]

Ok, I generalized comic book fans, which was wrong. But from what I've been seeing, I've seen a lot of fans hate everything that has been out in the market. And you guys generalized New Avenger fans.

For the record, I was an Old Avenger fan. But their ways didn't work out and they died. Captain America wants to form a team who helps people. Ok, yeah, we didnt see any epic stuff yet but we will eventually. I'm sure The New Avengers will play a big roll in Civil War.

Yeah theyre being disassembled.


EDIT: How exactly did their ways didnt work again? Kree/Skrull War? Ultron? Oh because Bendis and Quesada decided it didnt work.

 

[gildea]

See, I would say that the opposite is happening.

Personally, I was juiced by the line up of the NA. Then I read the first three issues and saw where it was all headed and stopped. It was garbage. Typical Bendis build up, anti-climax crap with TALKING TALKING TALKING TALKING.

So yeah, I own a few issues, I gave it a shot and it stinks. I'm willing to bet a lot of people who don't like it at least gave it a shot.

I'm going to agree the first arc wasn't great (though had some good moments) but the next arcs moved a lot brisker.

I'm not ragging on your decision to drop the book (comics are expensive!!) but you've only read 3 issues and do bash it quite frequently (byrne reading isn't reading a comic after all). Thats not to say your decision is uninformed with regards to purchasing (heck why buy a book that you gave three issues?) but to continue to bash a book having read comparatively little of it properly is a tad unfair I feel.

It doesnt fit well. If youre talking about Hawkeye and the maximoffs joining back in the day, thats a change that was implemented and had stuck for decades until Bendis and company decided the Avengers were boring so im going to kill some characters off and totally mess up any chance of doing anything else with some others.

I was. I don't see what time has to do with it really (from a story sense). A radical change was made and it stuck, perhaps bendis's will (don't see it mind you ). I really don't think he's messed up the possibilities for some characters almost everything is reparable in comics.

 

[MajinShenron]

Yeah theyre being disassembled.

It hasn't been confirmed, and we don't know how long Captain America will be on the other team.

 

[gildea]

Eh, you're welcome to disagree on what's good or bad change. But that's different than pretending that it's obviously good and that anyone who says they don't like it on its own merits is lying, and that you have some special insight into their soul that tells you the real reason they don't like it is because they hate all change. That's the attitude that pisses me off.

oh yeah definetly.

But that attitude is common to every side of the coin.

 

[roach]

For the record, I was an Old Avenger fan. But their ways didn't work out and they died.

I dont want to generalize but these two sentences seem to contradict

 

[Union Jack]

i like the new avengers too,i have no problem with wolvy or spidey being on the team.
as for epic adventures..it is just getting going plus there is the subtext storyline too of a secret bad guy.

i do think after civil war though the avengers rostor will be changed once again.

but as for now the new avengers is one of my favourites along side new excalibur,captain america and young avengers..moon knight looks promising too..

 

[Darthphere]

I was. I don't see what time has to do with it really (from a story sense). A radical change was made and it stuck, perhaps bendis's will (don't see it mind you ). I really don't think he's messed up the possibilities for some characters almost everything is reparable in comics.

I dont see how Scarlet Witch could be brougth back into the MU in the recent future.

 

[Darthphere]

It hasn't been confirmed, and we don't know how long Captain America will be on the other team.

It has, Bendis said the arc was called New Avengersisassembled and it will shake up the team.