Why the hate for Wolverine?

[ntcrawler]

Then he must really hate the way x-3 turned out (yeah, yeah he has a cameo where he waters the garden, I know.)

I don't think Stan was too worried about the storyline. He probably was too excited to be in a movie and staring at Romijn's hot naked blue body

 

[CapBeerCino]

Lol... could be.

 

[The Batman]

While his responses are extreme, i dont blame lastsunrise.

i mean, Wolverine fans ask why people are so hostile, and then their takes on the whole wolverine/jean/scott triangle are completely manipulated in wolverines favor. Its always "Jean would feel wrong if she left scott". I mean...it couldnt be that she actually LOVED scott, or loved her more than logan.

And then, you get people being angry for lastsunrise for labeling them, when those same people have said that the only reason people dont like X3 is because they're not true x-fans, just fans of a certain character or director.

And then, these same people will post in threads lamenting the fact that everyone on the boards bashes the movie, how the forum is such a hostile environment, not owning up to the fact that its some of their posts that feeds the violent monster. Typical.

I'll never forget when nell posted his initial review of X3, and was jumped on by a pack of members. Then, when his second review was positive, they decided to apologize for being A-Holes and said they were glad nell was using common sense, or something like that.

 

[ntcrawler]

Well, thank goodness those things haven't been in the movies. We've just seen flesh regrowing as he approached Phoenix. Best keep quiet about those other things....

Entire organs and body parts being ripped off and reapparing as fast as they're being ripped off. Even the book describes it as a series of flashes as his eyeballs are ripped off and just as quickly come back, the whole process automatically speeding up as Jean's destructive forces increase. And no, it's not because Jean amplifies other mutant's powers. Don't even try to go down that path.

No one wants Wolverine to be that all-powerful and prominent in the movieverse... and at least he didn't go that far in X3.

Watch it again, reread the book, reread my post. He went completely off the wall as far as his healing factor. You see his ribcage be exposed and regrow and be reexposed again in rapid succession. You see large chunks of flesh fly off and be replaced as soon as they're gone. That is NOT the Wolverine of X1 and X2.

He retained his humanity (and had a little too much of it when he wept over Xavier's chair - one assumes that was because the only remaining man who could find all the answers to his past had gone..)

Then one assumes wrong. Stryer was the only one who could give Wolverine his past back. His past disappeared when Stryker's facility was smothered underwater by Alkali Lake. And plus, why would Wolverine cry? It was clearly established at the end of X2 that he no longer gave a damn about his past. thus the symbolic tossing of his dog-tags at Stryker. He wasn't interested in his past, he didn't want his past, he no longer gave a damn aobut his past, he only cared now about his future, to start with a clear piece of paper and be among people who were his friends and who were good enough for him to give a damn about.

 

[X-Maniac]

Entire organs and body parts being ripped off and reapparing as fast as they're being ripped off. Even the book describes it as a series of flashes as his eyeballs are ripped off and just as quickly come back, the whole process automatically speeding up as Jean's destructive forces increase. And no, it's not because Jean amplifies other mutant's powers. Don't even try to go down that path.

But the novelisation clearly states that Jean's waves of power were amping up the powers of those near her - Cyclops, Xavier and Wolverine all experienced her power-enhancing effect. It quite clearly states as Wolverine approached Phoenix 'the harder she hit him the greater his body healed. She couldn't kill him, only make him stronger.' Cyclops and Xavier couldn't handle the amplification because they didn't have a mutant regenerative ability to enable their bodies to cope with the power surge.

Watch it again, reread the book, reread my post. He went completely off the wall as far as his healing factor. You see his ribcage be exposed and regrow and be reexposed again in rapid succession. You see large chunks of flesh fly off and be replaced as soon as they're gone. That is NOT the Wolverine of X1 and X2.

His powers were much the same as in X1 and X2 until that final scene, when her powers were amplifying his.

Then one assumes wrong. Stryer was the only one who could give Wolverine his past back. His past disappeared when Stryker's facility was smothered underwater by Alkali Lake. And plus, why would Wolverine cry? It was clearly established at the end of X2 that he no longer gave a damn about his past. thus the symbolic tossing of his dog-tags at Stryker. He wasn't interested in his past, he didn't want his past, he no longer gave a damn aobut his past, he only cared now about his future, to start with a clear piece of paper and be among people who were his friends and who were good enough for him to give a damn about.

Well, Xavier's telepathic probing could well have provided more answers, had he needed them. Also, Logan had quite clearly been 'tamed' and become less of an animal. However, it did seem strange to me to see him crying over Xavier's chair... the novel has him crying out, not crying...

 

[gambitfire]

NVM i confused ppl

 

[gambitfire]

But the novelisation clearly states that Jean's waves of power were amping up the powers of those near her - Cyclops, Xavier and Wolverine all experienced her power-enhancing effect. It quite clearly states as Wolverine approached Phoenix 'the harder she hit him the greater his body healed. She couldn't kill him, only make him stronger.' Cyclops and Xavier couldn't handle the amplification because they didn't have a mutant regenerative ability to enable their bodies to cope with the power surge.

The idea that she can do that makes no sense what so ever.

His powers were much the same as in X1 and X2 until that final scene, when her powers were amplifying his.

Still makes no sense

Well, Xavier's telepathic probing could well have provided more answers, had he needed them. Also, Logan had quite clearly been 'tamed' and become less of an animal. However, it did seem strange to me to see him crying over Xavier's chair... the novel has him crying out, not crying...

i have no response for the truth is he wasn't Wolverine in that movie. Tamed is but a bad excuse at having an actor potray the wrong character .

 

[LastSunrise1981]

But the novelisation clearly states that Jean's waves of power were amping up the powers of those near her - Cyclops, Xavier and Wolverine all experienced her power-enhancing effect. It quite clearly states as Wolverine approached Phoenix 'the harder she hit him the greater his body healed. She couldn't kill him, only make him stronger.' Cyclops and Xavier couldn't handle the amplification because they didn't have a mutant regenerative ability to enable their bodies to cope with the power surge.



His powers were much the same as in X1 and X2 until that final scene, when her powers were amplifying his.



Well, Xavier's telepathic probing could well have provided more answers, had he needed them. Also, Logan had quite clearly been 'tamed' and become less of an animal. However, it did seem strange to me to see him crying over Xavier's chair... the novel has him crying out, not crying...

You're hopeless. I give up. Your supposed "30 years of X-Men experience" was and is nothing more than a bold face lie.

Her powers amplifying Logans? Okay, so what's your saying is because she's so power he becomes stronger? So in other words, that would make him God then?

Nevermind. You are definitely a lost cause. On ignore you go.

 

[X-Maniac]

The idea that she can do that makes no sense what so ever.


Still makes no sense

It's in the novelisation that she amplifies mutant energy. I'm not writing out chunks of the book, but I am telling you it is in there. Several times.

 

[X-Maniac]

You're hopeless. I give up. Your supposed "30 years of X-Men experience" was and is nothing more than a bold face lie.

Her powers amplifying Logans? Okay, so what's your saying is because she's so power he becomes stronger? So in other words, that would make him God then?

Nevermind. You are definitely a lost cause. On ignore you go.

It's not what I AM SAYING. I am telling you what the movie depicted and what the book is saying to elaborate on it. I didn't make the movie, you ridiculous idiot.

I am not placing you on ignore, that's for sure. Someone has to police this forum for morons.

 

[Loganbabe]

Again, Logan babe, your knowledge of the comics and the history is really showing here. I suggest that you, Weatherwitch, and X-Maniac actually pick some X-Men comics, pick up some tapes of the Animated Series, and read, watch, listen, and learn in order to educate yourselves because the knowledge you are lacking is very evident when it comes to creative storytelling and emotional plot points.

Don´t treat me like an idiot. I´ve been reading the comics for years, thank you very much. That´s an arrogant and stupid thing to say.
People like you, Kurosowa and other "devoted" Cyke fans show no respect to people who think different from you. All Logan fans that I´ve seen around here treat people with respect and offer well constructed arguments, but what they receive in return are offenses. Very mature.

 

[Kurosawa]

Don´t treat me like an idiot. I´ve been reading the comics for years, thank you very much. That´s an arrogant and stupid thing to say.
People like you, Kurosowa and other "devoted" Cyke fans show no respect to people who think different from you. All Logan fans that I´ve seen around here treat people with respect and offer well constructed arguments, but what they receive in return are offenses. Very mature.

I've seen some very nasty Wolverine fans on here basically laughing it up about X3 and what happened to Scott in it. One even had an avatar basically harping on him taking Jean from Scott.

So there's another myth destroyed.

And as for the others-it's easy to be nice when your favorite character always wins. Try being nice when your favorite character is killed in a humiliating manner and then replaced by his rival. Not that Wolverine fans would ever experience that.

 

[danoyse]

People like you, Kurosowa and other "devoted" Cyke fans show no respect to people who think different from you. All Logan fans that I´ve seen around here treat people with respect and offer well constructed arguments, but what they receive in return are offenses. Very mature.

And it really makes the Cyke fans look bad, which isn't fair at all to the Cyke fans. They're not all like that. I know their character got screwed in the movies, and had lousy exit in X3. My first thought when that scene ended was "Oh, he didn't even get to die onscreen!" I really felt so bad for his fans.

Personally, I was looking forward to a Wolverine/Cyclops teamup in X3. I loved their strained relationship in X1, missed it in X2, and thought it would finally come full circle in X3. That would have been a lot of fun to see.

But things happened the way they did. It's not our fault. I'm not so sure how much Fox, as claimed, wanted to screw the character...but I can't help thinking maybe he would have had a bigger part in X3 if he hadn't agreed to the role in "Superman."

I don't think Cyke fans are losers for being mad. They're not losers, and they have a right not to be happy about how things turned out.

But I don't think people should be so mad to blame fans of other characters for all of their misery. We didn't do this to them.

What's pathetic is that I know the only response I get from certain people that I'm a loyalist who doesn't understand anything.

 

[Loganbabe]

Average Wolverine fan: "Who's Thunderbird? Is that like the car?"

I see your point exactly. I'll consider myself one of those victims then as I don't know much about Thunderbird. Now I can see why. I suppose then that Cyclops is supposed to be the next victim???

It's so wonderful to come across people who are able to make clear, consice and logical arguments like this among all the fanfare and wishful thinking.

Why am I not surprised that you and CapBeerCino agree with Kurosawa? The guy who calls Wolverine fans idiots, who tells them to "f*** off"...yeah, such a nice, polite, respectful Cyke fan he is.
It shows a lot about what you really think of people who disagree with your point of view.

 

[danoyse]

I've seen some very nasty Wolverine fans on here basically laughing it up about X3 and what happened to Scott in it. One even had an avatar basically harping on him taking Jean from Scott.

So there's another myth destroyed.

So who on this thread is being mean to you? Who's taunting you with their avatar? No one.

For someone who usually posts things like "**** Wolverine and his ****ing fans!", that's a bit like the pot calling the kettle black, isn't it?

And as for the others-it's easy to be nice when your favorite character always wins. Try being nice when your favorite character is killed in a humiliating manner and then replaced by his rival. Not that Wolverine fans would ever experience that.

Well, at what point was that our fault? I didn't write X3. I didn't kill off Cyclops. I didn't make Wolverine the main character.

You're directing your anger at the wrong people.

 

[Loganbabe]

I've seen some very nasty Wolverine fans on here basically laughing it up about X3 and what happened to Scott in it. One even had an avatar basically harping on him taking Jean from Scott.

Some very nasty Wolverine fans around here? Please show me one. I´ve seen none. But I´ve seen plenty of offensive Cyke fans, being that you´re the worst. You´re ten times worse than the nastiest Wolverine fans (if they exist) who post in these boards.
And it´s a pity because, like danoyse said, I know not all Cyke fans are like this. Unfortunately I´ve seen more the offensive type than the other.

 

[ntcrawler]

And it really makes the Cyke fans look bad, which isn't fair at all to the Cyke fans. They're not all like that. I know their character got screwed in the movies, and had lousy exit in X3. My first thought when that scene ended was "Oh, he didn't even get to die onscreen!" I really felt so bad for his fans.

Gee thanks, now I'm really feeling the love. He didn't even get to die onscreen? Man, he really was robbed, wasn't he? Is that all he's really good for? Why not actually let him live, perform the mission like the hero he's supposed to be, and be allowed to keep his promises and fulfill his destiny?

Personally, I was looking forward to a Wolverine/Cyclops teamup in X3. I loved their strained relationship in X1, missed it in X2, and thought it would finally come full circle in X3. That would have been a lot of fun to see.

I agree with that strongly. Their relationship and fights were something of legend at the institute and the last scene of them together in X3 was basically Scott giving Logan the finger. IT would be interesting to see them team up, settle their differences and agree to some common purpose. But alas, that's another one of those things that X3 failed to address or completely ignored, or made pointless, since he's dead or something like that.

But things happened the way they did. It's not our fault. I'm not so sure how much Fox, as claimed, wanted to screw the character...but I can't help thinking maybe he would have had a bigger part in X3 if he hadn't agreed to the role in "Superman."

I doubt that, since FOX was hesitant about giving Cyclops a more prominent role in the first place. Remember they didn't want him in it at all in the first place.

 

[ntcrawler]

Why am I not surprised that you and CapBeerCino agree with Kurosawa?

And why am I not surprised that you go against everything I say and keep patting Danoyse and Jan Irisi on the back for all your brilliant and logical posts? Almost as if all you care about is to rebuff everything I said so you can have the last word?

Kurosawa has a point: that Wolverine has been unfairly portrayed in a way that's advantageous to him but at the cost of all the other chars he's ever been paired up with. Do you agree with this, or not? Because I do. And for that, I stand with CapBeerCino and him. You want me to change my alliance? Then try to change my mind about this. So far, you have been unable to. All your arguments so far are based around the same points: that wolverine is more interesting, more popular, or that you like him the best. That hardly tells me anything worthwhile to change my mind or why he deserves to get that much attention, especially when it's at the cost of all the other characters, at least insofar as portrayed in the films, when in the comics and fanfiction there is ALWAYS a better character balance.

The guy who calls Wolverine fans idiots, who tells them to "f*** off"...yeah, such a nice, polite, respectful Cyke fan he is.

I never said I agreed or supported those methods. I praise someone based on their arguments, not on their use of insults, which you cannot claim you ever saw me use against anyone else. I for one have never called anyone an idiot or worse names or labelled people.

It shows a lot about what you really think of people who disagree with your point of view.

And you show me your tendency to reduce a debate to an argument and become defensive when you run out of logical arguments or reasons to support your claims. In all honesty, you don't know what I think of people who disagree with my point of view. You have no idea, do you? Becasue I give reasons for how I feel, not excuses. And I support my reasons with facts, evidence, and explanations. I never say things like "oh yeah? Cyclops is better!" or "I hate Wolverine, he sucks" or accuse people of trying to beat me down. I don't have to sit and cower in a corner. i'm not afraid of a good debate or argument and words do not intimidate me. Words alone do not win an argument. Convincing evidence and reasons, do.

You don't know what I think about you or the other posters. And you've never asked, even though you sound concerned and upset about it. If you really want to know, you could try asking instead of assuming things

 

[X-Maniac]

Well, getting back to the thrust of this thread, I do not 'hate' Wolverine, nor am I a massive fan. I feel the same about Cyclops to be honest. They are part of the X-Men lore, but I feel no particular love or loathing for them.

There will always be those who liked the movie and those who didn't. And no amount of arguing will change that. But certain people on here are being as 'destructive' as they possibly can over X3, in a very sick way. They want to drown everyone in their negativity, they want to spoil everyone's enjoyment, they want everyone to feel the same way, they want the movie somehow remade or unmade - it's a perverse and ridiculous form of control-freak behaviour. Some close friends of Bryan Singer are involved, that's for sure. These are people with an agenda.

Do you hear people who liked the movie having to say so one million times, hijacking threads and attacking other posters, turning everyone who liked some or all of the movie into a 'loyalist' or some other ridiculous label.

I am not defending Fox or the movie, I am defending the right of people to like it. And, for the sake of balance and proper debate, I am pointing out counter-arguments, especially where the original argument is silly or flawed or tainted in some way.

 

[ntcrawler]

Some close friends of Bryan Singer are involved, that's for sure.

Hardly. I don't even know the guy.

These are people with an agenda.

The complaining will continue until the movies improve. It's called consumers voicing their opinions and exercising their rights. If you think I have an agenda, brother you haven't seen anything yet. Keep your eyes open on the rewrite threads and on fanfiction.net and I'll show you what an agenda I have. I'll challenge you to see that agenda and give me some constructive criticism.

Do you hear people who liked the movie having to say so one million times, hijacking threads and attacking other posters, turning everyone who liked some or all of the movie into a 'loyalist' or some other ridiculous label.

Yes I have. Posts by people who say things along the lines of "This movie was the best comic adaptation ever and if you can't see that then you're blind and an idiot". Also people accusing me of being a purist or having an agenda or completely changing the subject and claiming it's just a movie instead of responding to my arguments.

I am not defending Fox or the movie, I am defending the right of people to like it.

I for one am not taking away your right to like it. What disturbs me is your unwillingness to challenge or question anything. Any explanations given either for plot holes or the technical aspect of the storyline you accept and then pass on, some of which I consider extremely flawed and illogical. If you're really an X-men reader for as long as you say you have, you should be able to find at least a few things wrong or that don't make sense. If a newbie like me can, then you should too.

And, for the sake of balance and proper debate, I am pointing out counter-arguments, especially where the original argument is silly or flawed or tainted in some way.

Let's try something new. Let's see you criticize the movie and I in return will post something positive. You up for that?

 

[danoyse]

Gee thanks, now I'm really feeling the love. He didn't even get to die onscreen? Man, he really was robbed, wasn't he? Is that all he's really good for? Why not actually let him live, perform the mission like the hero he's supposed to be, and be allowed to keep his promises and fulfill his destiny?

What's up with the sarcasm? I thought they gave him a lousy death scene.

The complaining will continue until the movies improve. It's called consumers voicing their opinions and exercising their rights. If you think I have an agenda, brother you haven't seen anything yet. Keep your eyes open on the rewrite threads and on fanfiction.net and I'll show you what an agenda I have. I'll challenge you to see that agenda and give me some constructive criticism.

It won't happen. Look, if X3 was a box office failure, the studio wouldn't sit down and say "Wow, we really disappointed these fans...let's start over an do it again." Instead, they would pull the plug on the spinoffs and discontinue the franchise.

Rewrites and fan fiction are fine for fans to re-do something the way they want...but don't expect a studio to see it your way. "Star Wars" fans re-edited "The Phantom Menace" on video and distributed it on the internet, believing it was the version it was *supposed* to be, and all they got out of it was a cease-and-desist order.

James Bond fans created a website just to spew hate on Daniel Craig. Have the re-cast him and started over? Nope.

What disturbs me is your unwillingness to challenge or question anything. Any explanations given either for plot holes or the technical aspect of the storyline you accept and then pass on, some of which I consider extremely flawed and illogical. If you're really an X-men reader for as long as you say you have, you should be able to find at least a few things wrong or that don't make sense. If a newbie like me can, then you should too.

I don't see any unwillingness on X-Maniac's part. He's clearly stated things he hasn't liked about the movie, and is content with the things he did like.

Not everyone is so outraged at X3. Completely bashing the people who did like the movie because they somehow don't share that outrage isn't getting anyone anywhere.

 

[ntcrawler]

What's up with the sarcasm? I thought they gave him a lousy death scene.

they did, yes. The problem is with the key word here... death. There's no good, justifiable reason for him to have to die, especially by Jean's hands in a movie where the plot is supposed to revolve around the two of them.

It won't happen. Look, if X3 was a box office failure, the studio wouldn't sit down and say "Wow, we really disappointed these fans...let's start over an do it again." Instead, they would pull the plug on the spinoffs and discontinue the franchise.

They can't. that would violate the terms of their contract. They have to keep making movies or they lose the rights. Batman Begins happened, didn't it? Highlander III happened, didn't it? Anything is possible. But yes, I know. They don't exactly care about the fans or about the quality of the stories they are trying to tell.

"Star Wars" fans re-edited "The Phantom Menace" on video and distributed it on the internet, believing it was the version it was *supposed* to be, and all they got out of it was a cease-and-desist order.

Ah yes, the infamous "Jar-Jar-free version". I have a copy. It's widely available for purchase at most sci-fi and fantasy conventions. And for your information, sometimes Studios CAN see it a fan's way. "The Dark Redepmption" is a great example. A prequel film made by Australian fans that's essentially Episode 3.5, not only did they manage to have one of the original cast members appear in the film, but George Lucas liked it so much that he declared it to be part of Star Wars movie canon. So your argument is not entirely correct.

In fact, more than other studios, George Lucas has a more appropriate attitude when it comes to fan projects. He openly encourages fanfilms and productions and even made all the official sound effects available on the official star wars website to help fans with improving production quality. Not to mention an annual awards presentation for the best Star Wars fan films of the year.

James Bond fans created a website just to spew hate on Daniel Craig. Have the re-cast him and started over? Nope.

They would if the film flops.

Not everyone is so outraged at X3. Completely bashing the people who did like the movie because they somehow don't share that outrage isn't getting anyone anywhere.

People who can acknowledge my reasons and arguments are fine and I will respect theirs too. People who try to bash me because of some superiority complex, especially if they try to argue with complete rubbish (ie Jean kills Scott because he fired into the lake and that made her mad) are going to hear an earful.

 

[danoyse]

they did, yes. The problem is with the key word here... death. There's no good, justifiable reason for him to have to die, especially by Jean's hands in a movie where the plot is supposed to revolve around the two of them.

And I was agreeing that I didn't like that they killed him off either.

They can't. that would violate the terms of their contract. They have to keep making movies or they lose the rights. Batman Begins happened, didn't it? Highlander III happened, didn't it? Anything is possible. But yes, I know. They don't exactly care about the fans or about the quality of the stories they are trying to tell.

They wouldn't keep making movies if they weren't making money. And the fact that X3 made the money it has...they can obviously boast that it made plenty of people happy.

Ah yes, the infamous "Jar-Jar-free version". I have a copy. It's widely available for purchase at most sci-fi and fantasy conventions.

And it's still an illegal copyright-infringing version of the movie. Hell, you can get the SW Holiday Special at the conventions too, and Lucas has been on a search-and-destroy mission for years.

And for your information, sometimes Studios CAN see it a fan's way. "The Dark Redepmption" is a great example. A prequel film made by Australian fans that's essentially Episode 3.5, not only did they manage to have one of the original cast members appear in the film, but George Lucas liked it so much that he declared it to be part of Star Wars movie canon. So your argument is not entirely correct.

When exactly did Lucas endorse this? Making a fan-made film is fine, and he's been great with providing the tools to do it. But taking an existing film and *correcting* it, like what done with Phantom Edit, doesn't hold any weight, except to vindicate some angry fans.

Also, keep in mind people who liked the prequels were called "apologists" by many. Sound familiar?

In fact, more than other studios, George Lucas has a more appropriate attitude when it comes to fan projects. He openly encourages fanfilms and productions and even made all the official sound effects available on the official star wars website to help fans with improving production quality. Not to mention an annual awards presentation for the best Star Wars fan films of the year.

Yes, he does...but he's not cool with people re-editing his own movie and distributing it as his own. He still thinks that the special editions are the *only* versions of SW. He still stuck Jar Jar in all 3 prequels despite the fan outcry. He does his own thing, instead of caving into fan pressure, which I completely respect him for.

They would if the film flops.

Yes, but they didn't halt production of "Casino Royale" and start over become some fans are angry.

People who can acknowledge my reasons and arguments are fine and I will respect theirs too. People who try to bash me because of some superiority complex, especially if they try to argue with complete rubbish (ie Jean kills Scott because he fired into the lake and that made her mad) are going to hear an earful.

Really? Because you've been using plenty of the "loyalist" talk too. I agree with Cyclops meeting a lousy end in X3 and got sarcasm and return.

For your information...I don't agree with most of your arguments, but I don't think they're "rubbish" either have a superiority complex. It's just your opinion, and you're as welcome to it as I am to mine.

 

[Hulkster]

And I was agreeing that I didn't like that they killed him off either.

They wouldn't keep making movies if they weren't making money. And the fact that X3 made the money it has...they can obviously boast that it made plenty of people happy.

You said you didn't like Cyclops killed? You are a lying piece of ****.

It doesn't mean that it made much money, then many people are happy. Many fans have been fooled by Fox, especially the poor ones who doesn't have a internet connection and because of that they cannot express what they feel.

And I've read through the previous pages that you've work for Fox, that's why you keep defending them.

 

[danoyse]

You said you didn't like Cyclops killed? You are a lying piece of ****.

See? Now that's uncalled for.

I was never happy with killing of Cyclops. I'm just not enraged about it.

It doesn't mean that it made much money, then many people are happy. Many fans have been fooled by Fox, especially the poor ones who doesn't have a internet connection and because of that they cannot express what they feel.

So wait, everyone without an internet connection liked the movie?

And I've read through the previous pages that you've work for Fox, that's why you keep defending them.

Have you read all of the posts? I worked at Fox 10 years ago. It was my first job, and believe me...it was of little importance. I was in their trainee program at their NY affiliate out of college. And I hated it there. There is nothing for me to defend.