Why the hate for Wolverine?

[Jan Irisi]

What was this 'something good' about POTC then? It was glaringly obvious escapist popcorn summer fun that appealed to a wide demographic because of its title (kids love pirates).

There's much more seriousness and emotion in X3.

X3 has more emotion than SR, much more passion. What might make it considered popcorn (the mutant cameos like Juggernaut, Multiple Man? the strong comicbook 'feel'?).

SR is definitely not popcorn; it's too dark and leaden for that.

It's all about escapism. These films are not Saving Private Ryan or Schindler's List. Entertainment, a good laugh or two, a "wow" or two, and maybe a message woven in there somewhere. In that respect, yeah, it's popcorn.

 

[X-Maniac]

Detail makes it sound like it makes sense is all .

But the novel isn't the movie. And the movie didn't emphasis it too the point where the electronic systems going haywire connects to the amplification of mutant powers.

Yes, but a lot of 'room for interpretation' is left in all three movies. And always has been. Jean's transformation into Phoenix was a facial expression that a lot of people missed at the end of X1 and was mentioned in X2 but never explained - hence the lengthy arguments on here over the Phoenix saga.

If you are a fan of Singer-style understated, unexpressed vagueness, things like this shouldn't bother you!

 

[gambitfire]

See your making no sense.

Room left for interpretation is fine if things add up. In this case they don't. Besides that it's just lazy writing .

Jeans transformation didn't matter as much at the end of X1 as it did the of X2. As far as im concerned this was never really expected to be a trilogy.

 

[gambitfire]

What was this 'something good' about POTC then? It was glaringly obvious escapist popcorn summer fun that appealed to a wide demographic because of its title (kids love pirates).

There's much more seriousness and emotion in X3.

X3 has more emotion than SR, much more passion. What might make it considered popcorn (the mutant cameos like Juggernaut, Multiple Man? the strong comicbook 'feel'?).

SR is definitely not popcorn; it's too dark and leaden for that.

Yea im sure the critics saw it that way . The funny thing is ppl i know that loved X3 over SR say it SR was boring (their definition of boring is what you call passion).

and good drama was lost in a matter of seconds i mean the Rogue dilemma was but a matter of minutes delt with. W/E your opinion is not being changed here just don't preach it like they are facts.

 

[X-Maniac]

See your making no sense.

Room left for interpretation is fine if things add up. In this case they don't. Besides that it's just lazy writing .

Jeans transformation didn't matter as much at the end of X1 as it did the of X2. As far as im concerned this was never really expected to be a trilogy.

What doesn't make sense? What doesn't add up?

 

[gambitfire]

JEAN BEING ABLE TO AMPLIFY ANOTHER MUTANTS POWERS!!!!!

ARE WE ON THE SAME BOAT HERE?!



sorry i will lower my voice now...

 

[X-Maniac]

Yea im sure the critics saw it that way .

The critics are irrelevant. Otherwise, Rotten Tomatoes ratings would be directly reflected at the box office.

The funny thing is ppl i know that loved X3 over SR say it SR was boring (their definition of boring is what you call passion).

I don't understand this part of your post at all. I loved X3 more than SR, and I thought X3 had much more passion and emotion. SR failed to bring out the emotion and conflict; it was all understated and made Superman into anything but a hero. Superman was responsible for Lois's pain and Lex's freedom (and therefore what Lex did) - Superman caused all that, but we never really saw all that brought to a climax. There was no passion. It was all underdeveloped, unexpressed.... A good idea badly done... (and that is, of course, my opinion...i shouldn't have to keep adding that on everytime i say something).

and good drama was lost in a matter of seconds i mean the Rogue dilemma was but a matter of minutes delt with. W/E your opinion is not being changed here just don't preach it like they are facts.

Rogue's 'drama' was well portrayed in my view. We saw some key scenes for her character. Yes, the movie appeared to move on quite quickly, but the drama and emotion was there, it was expressed... it didn't leave you wondering what people thought or what was going on inside their head...

I'm not 'preaching' my opinion, any more than those who hate the movie. As usual, people like you cannot stand that people might like the movie. Tough luck. I don't mind that you don't like it. But those who don't like it really cannot tolerate that people do like it. Deal with that first, then you will find things much easier.

 

[X-Maniac]

JEAN BEING ABLE TO AMPLIFY ANOTHER MUTANTS POWERS!!!!!

ARE WE ON THE SAME BOAT HERE?!



sorry i will lower my voice now...

I've already explained it for you above. So I'll do it again a bit louder. Clean out your ears and take this information into your brain:

SHE IS TELEKINETIC. SHE HAS POWERS OF MIND OVER MATTER. HER MIND INFLUENCES MATTER. AS PHOENIX SHE CAN DO THIS ON A MICROSCOPIC SCALE.

PHOENIX'S MASSIVE AND OUT OF CONTROL POWERS WERE INFLUENCING THE MATTER AROUND HER, GIVING IT MORE ENERGY, EXCITING IT. THIS IS HOW COMICBOOK PHOENIX CREATES HER FIREBIRD - BY EXCITING THE AIR MOLECULES AROUND HER, CAUSING THEM TO EMIT ENERGY...

THEREFORE, THINGS AROUND PHOENIX WERE IN AN ENERGISED STATE, SO ENERGISED THAT THEY ENDED UP VIBRATING THEMSELVES APART. EXCEPT WOLVERINE, WHOSE POWER IS TO REGENERATE.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. That is the explanation. It makes sense. If you don't like it, then fine. I'm not sure I like it either, but nevertheless it's there and it does make sense.

 

[gambitfire]

The critics are irrelevant. Otherwise, Rotten Tomatoes ratings would be directly reflected at the box office.

Yea your right the masses are always right......wait who's president of The US again?

I don't understand this part of your post at all. I loved X3 more than SR, and I thought X3 had much more passion and emotion. SR failed to bring out the emotion and conflict; it was all understated and made Superman into anything but a hero. Superman was responsible for Lois's pain and Lex's freedom (and therefore what Lex did) - Superman caused all that, but we never really saw all that brought to a climax. There was no passion. It was all underdeveloped, unexpressed.... A good idea badly done... (and that is, of course, my opinion...i shouldn't have to keep adding that on everytime i say something).

What don't you understand? what an opinion is? or something that i just mentioned out of experience?

Emotion - Woman you love remarried had a kid and you don't know who the dad is? you just found out there is nothing left of your home.


On the otherhand your dealing with the fact that there is a chance to change who you are? Like if your black jewish or gay you can change it. And in the end yep we choose to not be ourselves. That and A man chases the woman he loves.....though she does not love him and they have only known each other for a week tops.

Rogue's 'drama' was well portrayed in my view. We saw some key scenes for her character. Yes, the movie appeared to move on quite quickly, but the drama and emotion was there, it was expressed... it didn't leave you wondering what people thought or what was going on inside their head...

Key scenes where the only scenes. Other than that she wasn't even just there like Colossus got to be. It was there im not going to say it wasn't but it never gave us a chance to let it sink in. It took away from it's own seriousness. That's how i felt anyways.

I'm not 'preaching' my opinion, any more than those who hate the movie. As usual, people like you cannot stand that people might like the movie. Tough luck. I don't mind that you don't like it. But those who don't like it really cannot tolerate that people do like it. Deal with that first, then you will find things much easier.

Just like people like you cannot stand that ppl disliked the movie?

Hey you have NOOOO idea how much i wanted to love this movie, how much of a fan i really am. Im not happy with it is all. I just don't like being told that my opinion is wrong which is what you imply everytime you say something like X3 was better than SR. Is it Hard to believe not everyone feels that way? yes a little IMO (3 letters) does help a little sometimes. Oh and i dunno if you saw the name of the thread yet, but My kind of response was expected. Simple and to the point, the reasons where stated but this keeps going.

Sings: This is the thread that doesn't end yes it goes on and on my friends...

 

[gambitfire]

I've already explained it for you above. So I'll do it again a bit louder. Clean out your ears and take this information into your brain:

SHE IS TELEKINETIC. SHE HAS POWERS OF MIND OVER MATTER. HER MIND INFLUENCES MATTER. AS PHOENIX SHE CAN DO THIS ON A MICROSCOPIC SCALE.

PHOENIX'S MASSIVE AND OUT OF CONTROL POWERS WERE INFLUENCING THE MATTER AROUND HER, GIVING IT MORE ENERGY, EXCITING IT. THIS IS HOW COMICBOOK PHOENIX CREATES HER FIREBIRD - BY EXCITING THE AIR MOLECULES AROUND HER, CAUSING THEM TO EMIT ENERGY...

THEREFORE, THINGS AROUND PHOENIX WERE IN AN ENERGISED STATE, SO ENERGISED THAT THEY ENDED UP VIBRATING THEMSELVES APART. EXCEPT WOLVERINE, WHOSE POWER IS TO REGENERATE.

Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. That is the explanation. It makes sense. If you don't like it, then fine. I'm not sure I like it either, but nevertheless it's there and it does make sense.

No i think the entity provides the SFX on it's own.
Your thinking comic book Phoenix which clearly isn't Movie Pheonix. Movie Phoenix being able to amplify mutant abilities doesn't add up. You can BS an excuse all you want. In your defens ill say that This is a fictional universe but EVEN THEN it doesn't add up.

Too you it makes sense then you must ppl some kind of advanced physicist or something? im impressed i didn't know you had such vast scientific knowledge.

I can't believe im arguing superhuman powers. Moving on.

 

[LastSunrise1981]

However, I do not think it was that 'popcorn'....

For me, 'popcorn' is POTC (no emotion or seriousness) and those silly comedies that the USA keeps inflicting on the rest of the world.

I think POTC 2 had some emotional scenes. Namely the crew grieving over Jack, Elizabeth mainly grieving over Jack and realizing he was/is a good man.

Jack standing his ground as he stands face to face with the Kraken? That was pure emotion, courage, and danger staring right in his face and he wasn't even impressed nor scared. I felt more proud and emotional during those scenes than anything X3.

For you to say X3 is more emotional than Superman Returns? I realize you're entitled to your opinion, but your credibility is dead and buried after that.

Superman Returns- Finds out the woman he loves has a child and is engaged, is led to believe his home planet still remains, flying away as Lois says she never loved him, getting beaten unmercifully by Lex Luthor and his henchmen, and slowly descending towards Earth after lifting the New Krypton and throwing it into the vast regions of outer space? Flies to the sun to recharge his strength before making a flying to the New Krypton?

Superman- ::Stands up after Lois takes the Kryptonite out of him and opens the planes latch::

Lois- Where are you going?!

Superman- I have to go back.

Lois- You're hurt!

Superman- ::slowly backs away:: Goodbye Lois.

That scene always got to me. It's very powerful and even though he was hurt, he knew he had to do what he had to do.

The only emotional scene in X3 for me was the Beast/Leech scene that I wish could've been expanded on. But we all know that Ratner has that ADD that goes around and didn't care to expand on any scene that had emotion.

Seriously, you can write that crap you write with a straight face? I'm not going to call you any names or use any profane language, simply because that would get me banned and that's what you want. Bottom line you have no credibility, you don't know the X-Men comics, and you're simply just another fan that Fox listens to in order to make sure that they believe what they did was right.

 

[gambitfire]

Yea i think POTC had more than ppl give credit too. They are hating on it because everyone else loved it.

It had a story but truth is it did fall a little behind the action and SFX.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Just like people like you cannot stand that ppl disliked the movie?


Sings: This is the thread that doesn't end yes it goes on and on my friends...

Ah, but you see, it is not the fact that people who liked the film dislike people who didn't. It is much more a matter of people who liked the film disliking the people going on and on and on and on about disliking it. There is a difference. Even some people who disliked the film are beginning to dislike the people going on and on and on about it.

So to paraphrase your cute little ditty "This is the b****ing that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends........."

 

[LastSunrise1981]

Ah, but you see, it is not the fact that people who liked the film dislike people who didn't. It is much more a matter of people who liked the film disliking the people going on and on and on and on about disliking it. There is a difference. Even some people who disliked the film are beginning to dislike the people going on and on and on about it.

So to paraphrase your cute little ditty "This is the b****ing that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends........."

Well if you don't like it, you can always find another thread that is more positive for your tastes.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Well if you don't like it, you can always find another thread that is more positive for your tastes.

There aren't any.

99% of the threads have been overrun.


Can't you see that folks are just growing tired of all the bashing and *****ing? Some would like to move on, talk about something else for a change. I don't know, something that has nothing to do with *****ing and bashing.

 

[ntcrawler]

See your making no sense.

Room left for interpretation is fine if things add up. In this case they don't. Besides that it's just lazy writing .

Jeans transformation didn't matter as much at the end of X1 as it did the of X2. As far as im concerned this was never really expected to be a trilogy.

Things do add up and make sense if you consider X1 and X2, which support each other and follow up. It's where X3 is tossed into the mix where things become contradicted and no longer makes sense. X3 takes a sudden, shark turn in the wrong direction and pulls concepts out of a hat that were neither hinted at or supported by the first two films. Jean's transformation into Phoenix being one of those major points. And that is where it fails.

 

[ntcrawler]

I've already explained it for you above. So I'll do it again a bit louder. Clean out your ears and take this information into your brain:

SHE IS TELEKINETIC. SHE HAS POWERS OF MIND OVER MATTER. HER MIND INFLUENCES MATTER. AS PHOENIX SHE CAN DO THIS ON A MICROSCOPIC SCALE.

Yes, she can manipulate matter, either on a grand scale or on a microscopic scale.

PHOENIX'S MASSIVE AND OUT OF CONTROL POWERS WERE INFLUENCING THE MATTER AROUND HER, GIVING IT MORE ENERGY, EXCITING IT. THIS IS HOW COMICBOOK PHOENIX CREATES HER FIREBIRD - BY EXCITING THE AIR MOLECULES AROUND HER, CAUSING THEM TO EMIT ENERGY...

THis is how she creates the aura of energy around hur, but it does not give matter energy, or excite it. Telekinetics is about moving matter around, not charging it up with energy or exciting its current energy state.

THEREFORE, THINGS AROUND PHOENIX WERE IN AN ENERGISED STATE, SO ENERGISED THAT THEY ENDED UP VIBRATING THEMSELVES APART. EXCEPT WOLVERINE, WHOSE POWER IS TO REGENERATE.

And therefore, you are absolutely incorrect in your conclusion. Jean's telepathy gives her the power to read other's minds, to go into their minds, to plant thoughts, or erase thoughts. Jean's telekinetics gives her the power to move objects, or rearrange them at the molecular scale, or break chemical bonds and destroy things. She DOES NOT, I say again DOES NOT have the ability to transfer energy into an object, she DOES not have the power to raise an object's energy state, she DOES NOT have the ability to build up an object's kinetic energy (this is something that Gambit can do, and NOT Jean), and therefore the assumption that she can increase another mutant's power levels and therefore increase their powers is completely baseless, illogical, not supported at all, and downright ridiculous. This is how her powers work, this is what they can do, and although the ability te manipulate and destroy objects or a grand scale can be impressive, it has nothing to do with the ability to transfer energy into an object or to boost a mutant's powers. Things which she clearly CANNOT do and which are clearly NOT supported by the movies, as it goes against the very nature of her abilities.

You can type in all capitals and shout all you want at people, but that's not going to give your argument anymore weight if it's incorrect and baseless in the first place. Frankly, this explanation is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard you post. If you claim to have read the comics as long as you have and to you something as preposterous as this makes perfect sense, then I am truly disappointed.

 

[The Batman]

You know, if you wolverine fans were as reasonable as you like to claim, you would stop ignoring my question and answer it.

 

[danoyse]

Yea i think POTC had more than ppl give credit too. They are hating on it because everyone else loved it.

I loved POTC2. I've seen it twice.

But I like it because it's not an emotionally-driven masterpiece. Without that lunatic performance of Johnny Depp, it would just be another action movie.

Does anyone think Jack's not going to escape the Krakken? Or that Will won't save his father? Or that Bennett or Davy Jones won't be defeated?

The only big question is who Elizabeth will end up with, and what Barbossa's role will be, and that's not what will be bringing me back next summer. I'm there to see how they do all of this, and hope for plenty of Captain Jack-lunacy on the way there.

No emotion in X3? To me, the most emotional moment was curing Magneto. What worse fate for him than making him what he most despises?

Yes, I know it doesn't happen that way in the comics...so save your implications that I'm clueless in you're oh-so-much-smarter mind. But in that movie universe, which started with him in that concentration camp, to all these high-and-mighty plans of world domination, to see him have to run in fear with everyone else? That was an amazing moment in X3.

And Rogue taking the cure. (again, this is movie universe, so put your knives down). Everyone I've spoken too loved that scene. I'm back on forth on her taking it...but I think it was a good way to show the cure didn't have to be evil.

The Professor's death, Jean's reaction when she realized she may have killed Scott, and Logan's reaction when Jean died. All emotional moments.

You may not have liked them, but the audience definitely responded to them all 4 times I've seen the movie.

 

[danoyse]

You know, if you wolverine fans were as reasonable as you like to claim, you would stop ignoring my question and answer it.

Maybe if you were a little nicer, people would pay attention to you.

 

[The Batman]

Maybe if you were a little nicer, people would pay attention to you.

And maybe if you people had a point, the question would be answered by now. By the fact is, you guys dont have an answer, do you?

 

[LastSunrise1981]

I loved POTC2. I've seen it twice.

But I like it because it's not an emotionally-driven masterpiece. Without that lunatic performance of Johnny Depp, it would just be another action movie.

Does anyone think Jack's not going to escape the Krakken? Or that Will won't save his father? Or that Bennett or Davy Jones won't be defeated?

The only big question is who Elizabeth will end up with, and what Barbossa's role will be, and that's not what will be bringing me back next summer. I'm there to see how they do all of this, and hope for plenty of Captain Jack-lunacy on the way there.

No emotion in X3? To me, the most emotional moment was curing Magneto. What worse fate for him than making him what he most despises?

Yes, I know it doesn't happen that way in the comics...so save your implications that I'm clueless in you're oh-so-much-smarter mind. But in that movie universe, which started with him in that concentration camp, to all these high-and-mighty plans of world domination, to see him have to run in fear with everyone else? That was an amazing moment in X3.

And Rogue taking the cure. (again, this is movie universe, so put your knives down). Everyone I've spoken too loved that scene. I'm back on forth on her taking it...but I think it was a good way to show the cure didn't have to be evil.

The Professor's death, Jean's reaction when she realized she may have killed Scott, and Logan's reaction when Jean died. All emotional moments.

You may not have liked them, but the audience definitely responded to them all 4 times I've seen the movie.

Of course you knew Jack would survive, considering there's a third movie and Depp is in it. A person would have to be an absolute moron not to notice it or realize it.

Curing Magneto? That wasn't emotional at all. It was just WHAM BAM he's cured. Nothing emotional about it.

Rogue taking the cure? Another one that really made no sense. What you fail to realize is X3 ruined any kind of continuity that X2 created. Rogue, in X2, was slowly becoming more comfortable with who she is and became more confident as well. When she was about to drain Magneto on the plane was proof that she didn't have any fear of using them.

Now in X3, all of a sudden she's back to being afraid and insecure? Hell in X2 she was standing proud and elite with them in the White House while in uniform.

Again, your argument fails and proves your lack of comic education.

Professor dying, Jean's reaction and so forth weren't emotional at all. Again, nothing was allowed to have an impact. Maybe if the moment was allowed to breath instead of cutting away I'd agree with you.

But the fact that you denounce anyone who dislikes this movie proves you are what Fox loves in a blind follower.

And if you're as intelligent as you say you are, why not answer The Batmans question instead of avoiding the issue?

 

[ntcrawler]

Of course you knew Jack would survive, considering there's a third movie and Depp is in it. A person would have to be an absolute moron not to notice it or realize it.

That's a good point. That's like claiming no one was worried whether Wolverine would survive the fighting in X1 or X2 and therefore it wasn't emotional. Did you have any doubts that Wolverine would survive X1? Did you have any doubts that Wolverine would survive X2? Or did you have any doubts that Jean would disintegrate Wolverine during Alcatraz in X3? So therefore going by their logic using POTC as an example the fact that we KNEW Wolverine would survive took away all the emotional impact from the moments.

Curing Magneto? That wasn't emotional at all. It was just WHAM BAM he's cured. Nothing emotional about it.

I think it was emotional, but like most of other Ratner's scenes you never got the chance for the impact of the moment to set in. Magneto's cure, done! Then Jean goes berzerk and you pretty much forget about Magneto. I sense ADD here...

Rogue taking the cure? Another one that really made no sense. What you fail to realize is X3 ruined any kind of continuity that X2 created.

Thank you! That's what I've been trying to say for weeks but sadly few other people realize this! Where's the continuity? Of course, since this is supposed to be just another action-packed summer blockbuster, some would argue that the intended audience doesn't worry about such tiny little details and that we're just nitpicking...

Rogue, in X2, was slowly becoming more comfortable with who she is and became more confident as well. When she was about to drain Magneto on the plane was proof that she didn't have any fear of using them.

Now in X3, all of a sudden she's back to being afraid and insecure? Hell in X2 she was standing proud and elite with them in the White House while in uniform.

I think that's because all the people who are wiser and more logical than us claim it was a brilliant plot twist because the ultimate goal for Rogue was never learning to cope and control (so much for all the effort by the school to make her feel welcome and accepted and to give her a positive outlook on life and on herself), but to in fact take the cheap and easy way out, ie the magic pill, the magic "Cure", what with this being the movieverse and a different Rogue and all .

Professor dying,

It's sad how only his death had any sort of emotional impact, only to be ruined at the end by one of the most anticlimactic and cheesy resurrection scenes ever. And people claim Cyke's return would be worse? At least his death wasn't established as clearly and graphically as Xavier's. Xavier was the one we saw blown to smithereens and then have a touching funeral.

Jean's reaction and so forth weren't emotional at all. Again, nothing was allowed to have an impact. Maybe if the moment was allowed to breath instead of cutting away I'd agree with you.

Exactly. Almost all the scenes were too rushed. I think the only scene that was allowed to have any impact was the ice-skating scene between Kitty and Bobby, but surely Kitty's homesickness and sadness pales in comparison to the loss of Jean or the sadness felt when she switched sides.

 

[Jan Irisi]

Wanna know why no one is answering the question? Because no matter what anyone says, reasonable or not, it will still be denounced as utter BS and lies and the "rantings of loyalists and ignorant fanboys".

How many times has it happened in this thread alone? Go ahead, count away.

I'm beginning to think that if I said the sky was blue, somebody would come on and tell me I'm delusional, a fanboy, a liar or just plain stupid because I just don't understand anything at all.

 

[The Batman]

Yup...they dont have a point.

please...stop the act now. I asked you, pretty nicely too, to explain something to me, and you people simply failed. All the insults havent stopped you people before. the fact is, you simply do not posess the answer to the question.....mainly because you know cyke fans have a point about Scott and Jean.