Why the hate for Wolverine?

[Hulkster]

See? Now that's uncalled for.

I was never happy with killing of Cyclops. I'm just not enraged about it.

So wait, everyone without an internet connection liked the movie?

Have you read all of the posts? I worked at Fox 10 years ago. It was my first job, and believe me...it was of little importance. I was in their trainee program at their NY affiliate out of college. And I hated it there. There is nothing for me to defend.

You didn't understand what I said? Here it is.
- Many disappointed fans have been fooled by Fox, especially the poor ones who doesn't have a internet connection and because of that they cannot express what they feel.

That means many fans cannot express their dissapointment because they have no internet connection.

Now I know why you keep defending them, because you've worked for them. You can't turn your back on them. Maybe they've hypnoticed you, you better go see a doctor.

 

[danoyse]

You didn't understand what I said? Here it is.
- Many disappointed fans have been fooled by Fox, especially the poor ones who doesn't have a internet connection and because of that they cannot express what they feel.

That means many fans cannot express their dissapointment because they have no internet connection.

You know, people expressed their opinions before the internet existed too.

Now I know why you keep defending them, because you've worked for them. You can't turn your back on them. Maybe they've hypnoticed you, you better go see a doctor.

Oy.

 

[Hulkster]

You know, people expressed their opinions before the internet existed too.

Oy.

I know that, but what about the people that is far away in America, the fans that doesn't have internet connection, the poor Cyke fans who are disappointed and cannot let their rage/anger out.

Or maybe you defend Fox because you love someone there, and you cannot let him down. If you loved someone that work on Fox that's why you keep defending them, then I understand.

 

[Kurosawa]

Why am I not surprised that you and CapBeerCino agree with Kurosawa? The guy who calls Wolverine fans idiots, who tells them to "f*** off"...yeah, such a nice, polite, respectful Cyke fan he is.
It shows a lot about what you really think of people who disagree with your point of view.

I can't remember all the *******s names, but they mostly came into the various Cyclops threads and laughed it up over X3. Can't remember who it was with the "Afraid I'm gonna take your girl" avatar but he was among the most offensive. Guy was a pure *******.

There are some ok Wolverine fans who understand that X3 was pure crap and were actually pissed over what they did to Scott. So not ALL Wolverine fans suck.

 

[The Batman]

Why is no one answering my questions?

I asked the wolverine fans, why is it that jean sticks with scott because she has to, not because she legitimately loves him more than logan?

 

[ntcrawler]

Why is no one answering my questions?

I asked the wolverine fans, why is it that jean sticks with scott because she has to, not because she legitimately loves him more than logan?

Well I certainly can't answer that one because I don't believe it myself. I don't believe Jean stuck with Scott because it was the prudent thing to do and she wanted to be nice.

 

[The Batman]

Well I certainly can't answer that one because I don't believe it myself. I don't believe Jean stuck with Scott because it was the prudent thing to do and she wanted to be nice.

I'd just like to know why is it that jean cant just love scott more than logan. dont mention logans feelings for jean or scotts. and not just "jean is attracted to logan". Why cant, despite the attraction to logan, jean just love scott more?

 

[ntcrawler]

I'd just like to know why is it that jean cant just love scott more than logan. dont mention logans feelings for jean or scotts. and not just "jean is attracted to logan". Why cant, despite the attraction to logan, jean just love scott more?

That's the whole point. Jean does love Scott more. She can admire Logan, she can even love him, but not as much as she does Scott, and not the same way she does Scott. She always does, in every incantation of the X-Men. Only in X3 would the movie and Claremont's novelization have you believe that there was ever a conflict with Jean choosing, that one of the main reasons why she got off the plane and chose to die was because she couldn't bear to choose between Logan and Scott, afraid she would hurt one or the other's feelings.

It's interesting to note that at least in tha fanfiction universe, all the stories written before X3 the movie came out that try to show what happens after X2, none of them ever consider such a choice or dilemna taking place again. Good examples are Grail, Phoenix Rising, Echo, and Reserved Valour. In each case Jean's heart clearly belongs to Scott, and in fact one of the reasons why she DOES come back is because she wanted to come back, for Scott. The only exceptions are stories which try to show Jean's mind being corrupted by the phoenix powers or other outside influences which causes her to have violent mood swings, lashing out in anger, or confusing changes in feelings which causes her among other things to lust after Logan and end up cheating on Scott and doing the wild thing. But aside from those stories she always has a clear preference for Scooter and makes it clear who her heart really belongs to.

The only times when Jean usually gives in and turns to Logan are stories that take place after X3, and ones in which Scott is usually dead or assumed dead so he can't really interfere. IN those stories, sure I've come across some where Jean and Logan become true love, or marry, or Jean even ends up pregnant with his kids. But if the sequel involves Scott being alive, things don't go in that direction so easily.

So fear not! The temptation may be there, and in fact under these circumstances I welcome it. Because it gives Jean an excellent chance to reassert herself and make it clear where her heart belongs to. It only makes you appreciate the characters, and their relationships and special bond even more.

 

[Loganbabe]

And why am I not surprised that you go against everything I say and keep patting Danoyse and Jan Irisi on the back for all your brilliant and logical posts? Almost as if all you care about is to rebuff everything I said so you can have the last word?

Really, what do you expect? That I agree with everything you say? Do you agree with anything a Wolverine fan or a person who enjoyed X3 has to say? Don´t be unrealistic. If you want to share your thoughts only with people who think exactly like you, stay on Cyke´s thread. I´ll never go there to "stalk" you, I promise, since I don´t really care about Cyke and I don´t care about all the awful things Cyke fans say about X3 or Wolverine there. Now, if you come to a thread where a fan was trying to defend Wolverine in the first place, and start attacking the character, than you´ll certainly hear from me.
And why are you so worried if I have the last word? This is a discussion board, if I don´t agree with your arguments what am I supposed to do, shut up?! You´re always welcome to rebuff my arguments, so eventually you´ll have the "last word" too, if that´s so important for you.
And yeah, I praise people like danoyse, Jan and undomiel for their clear, intelligent and, most important, never offensive arguments, unlike some people around here who call Wolverine fans "piece of s***", "loyalists", idiots, ADDs, "Rothman´s b******" and other brilliant arguments like these.

Kurosawa has a point: that Wolverine has been unfairly portrayed in a way that's advantageous to him but at the cost of all the other chars he's ever been paired up with. Do you agree with this, or not? Because I do.

You´re talking about the movies or the comics? Because, really, you can´t talk as if you´re an expert in X-Men comics if you´ve read, what, 65 comics so far? If you don´t know much about the comics, you can´t go agreeing with everything Kurosawa says just because he´s a Cyke fan and hates Wolverine. You have to read far more than 65 comics if you want to form your own opinion about comic Wolvie (including the wonderful "Wolverine" run by Larry Hama), and if he´s really that evil, destructive character Kurosawa keeps talking about. Before that, I don´t see why you have so blindly to agree with him.
As for the movies, Logan is the main character, and he was from the first movie. Your beloved Singer put him in that place. I never felt he "destroyed" the other characters just because he was the main, actually Wolverine, and the way he was performed by Hugh, was one of the strong reasons many new fans were attracted to the world of comics, which led them to learn more about the other X-characters as well. But if you want to believe that Logan as the main character was hurtful to the movies, to the characters, to the comics, to world´s peace, it´s up to you.

And for that, I stand with CapBeerCino and him. You want me to change my alliance? Then try to change my mind about this. So far, you have been unable to.

Yes I have been unable, thanks god! Have you ever thought I´ve been unable to change your mind because I don´t want you to change anything, least of all you mind? I´m just expressing my opinions here, and I´ve aligned myself with people I believe offer intelligent arguments, not insults. If you want to align yourself with guys who disrespect and offend other fans, it´s your choice.

All your arguments so far are based around the same points: that wolverine is more interesting, more popular, or that you like him the best.

Ah, all the precious minutes wasted writing about romanticism, iconic characters, Flaubert, Emma Bovary, the meaning of Art, Romeo and Juliet, the Tragic Hero, and in the end you reduce me to a mindless idiotic fan whose only argument is "I like Logan best because he´s more popular and more interesting - squee!"

I never said I agreed or supported those methods.

If you agree with Kurosawa, Hulkster, LastSunrise, then you support their methods. If a Wolverine fan happens to go to Cyke´s thread, for example, and start bashing the character there, or saying offensive things to the fans, you won´t see me there supporting him/her, that´s for sure. And I don´t like Cyclops.

And you show me your tendency to reduce a debate to an argument and become defensive when you run out of logical arguments or reasons to support your claims.

Funny, that´s exactly what I think about your posts, so it seems we agree on something, after all.

You don't know what I think about you or the other posters. And you've never asked, even though you sound concerned and upset about it. If you really want to know, you could try asking instead of assuming things

I don´t know what you think about me, and I don´t care, it´s not relevant. It´s an illusion to think people know each other through the internet. In the end, my opinion won´t change, yours won´t either, and life goes on...

 

[Loganbabe]

I can't remember all the *******s names, but they mostly came into the various Cyclops threads and laughed it up over X3. Can't remember who it was with the "Afraid I'm gonna take your girl" avatar but he was among the most offensive. Guy was a pure *******.

I´ve never seen that person around here. Or any other offensive or disrespectful Wolverine fan. I myself never goes to any Cyke´s threads, first because I don´t care about the character, and second because I´m not that paranoid to keep on checking all the nasty, horrible things that certainly are being said there about Logan and his fans.
And it´s funny how you, of all people, should talk about "offensive" fans. Really funny.

So not ALL Wolverine fans suck.

Like I said...really funny.

 

[Celestial]

Through all three films there was a thread that showed that part of Jean was attracted to the safe, controlled environment represented by her love for Scott. But equally there was the idea that she was almost waiting to break free and her feelings for Logan fit in with that. Scott represents safety and control whereas Logan represents danger and freedom.

 

[XCharlieX]

Through all three films there was a thread that showed that part of Jean was attracted to the safe, controlled environment represented by her love for Scott. But equally there was the idea that she was almost waiting to break free and her feelings for Logan fit in with that. Scott represents safety and control whereas Logan represents danger and freedom.

Well said. This is the movie-verse version of x-men, therefore i would think some room to create some different trains of thought would be ok. but not to folks who care nothing about film and all about comic. To them it will always be something dumb that they did and inferior, but the rest of us understand well.

 

[X-Maniac]

The complaining will continue until the movies improve. It's called consumers voicing their opinions and exercising their rights. If you think I have an agenda, brother you haven't seen anything yet. Keep your eyes open on the rewrite threads and on fanfiction.net and I'll show you what an agenda I have. I'll challenge you to see that agenda and give me some constructive criticism.

But endless complaining on here isn't going to change X3. Sending your complaints to people who have the power to do something would be more constructive. Trying to bring this forum down with negativity is not acceptable - this is what you and others are doing, trying to drown this forum in negativity so it takes on an entirely negative look in every thread and every post, in the hope that this will send out a message. That's very unfair on those who did like some or all of the movie. And this is a fan forum on a 'hype' website, so you are going to come up against people who like the movie. You really cannot expect to create an army of negativity on here.

Yes I have. Posts by people who say things along the lines of "This movie was the best comic adaptation ever and if you can't see that then you're blind and an idiot". Also people accusing me of being a purist or having an agenda or completely changing the subject and claiming it's just a movie instead of responding to my arguments.

Perhaps you are a purist if you cannot accept at least some of what happened in X3. You knew well in advance that Singer wasn't directing it, about the casting of characters and about some alleged details of the story, so the end result shouldn't have been a shock. I'm not a purist nor a loyalist, but I am a realist. I choose not to constantly beat myself up over things. As my boss says at work - there are two ways of looking at everything: positive and negative; it's up to you what you decide to do. I'd rather find the enjoyment than make myself miserable and suicidal about everything and constantly feeling life has done me a disservice.

I for one am not taking away your right to like it. What disturbs me is your unwillingness to challenge or question anything. Any explanations given either for plot holes or the technical aspect of the storyline you accept and then pass on, some of which I consider extremely flawed and illogical. If you're really an X-men reader for as long as you say you have, you should be able to find at least a few things wrong or that don't make sense. If a newbie like me can, then you should too.

Well, here you are talking plain nonsense. In my first review of the movie, I talked about the things i didn't like. And I regularly mention things I didn't like - such as Cyclops' treatment (didn't like his death, might have accepted it more if his scenes were longer), Phoenix (lack of firebird, quick descent into darkness), Storm (no origin scene, no compassion), the plotholes in how the Brotherhood got to SF, how Angel got to SF. But I can still enjoy the movie.

This is where we differ. I can see positives, and focus on them. You seem unable to do that and would rather self-flagellate over everything.

Let's try something new. Let's see you criticize the movie and I in return will post something positive. You up for that?

I'd rather not change around my entire viewpoint. I'd rather stick to my view of this as an enjoyable comicbook movie with some disappointments and flaws, not go down your road of thinking it is a bad movie (with a few acceptable parts?). I'm quite happy with the way I perceive things.

 

[XCharlieX]

But endless complaining on here isn't going to change X3. Sending your complaints to people who have the power to do something would be more constructive.

Oh please. Spare the crew. They already scared the writers away lol

 

[X-Maniac]

Oh please. Spare the crew. They already scared the writers away lol

Yes, perhaps you are right. And the way they treated the writers was shocking. Just an outright attack, rather than trying to get at the reasoning for everything. Which was much more than creative or artistic at the end of the day.

Pouring the energy into fanfics is a better use of their time, even though fanfics exist in an unrestrained world without studio politics and parameters and therefore cannot be seen as viable alternatives to the movie.

 

[Celestial]

I choose not to constantly beat myself up over things. As my boss says at work - there are two ways of looking at everything: positive and negative; it's up to you what you decide to do. I'd rather find the enjoyment than make myself miserable and suicidal about everything and constantly feeling life has done me a disservice.

I was thinking of posting something along these lines, this morning (though unlikely to be as well put).
With this type of movie, I'm looking for enjoyment not something to pull to pieces. I went in with the right expectations and I enjoyed it. It wasn't the film I'd hoped for immediately after seeing X2, but it was better than most of the popcorn movies out there.

 

[gambitfire]

It's in the novelisation that she amplifies mutant energy. I'm not writing out chunks of the book, but I am telling you it is in there. Several times.

im not saying it isn't there im just saying it makes no sense

 

[gambitfire]

I can't remember all the *******s names, but they mostly came into the various Cyclops threads and laughed it up over X3. Can't remember who it was with the "Afraid I'm gonna take your girl" avatar but he was among the most offensive. Guy was a pure *******.

There are some ok Wolverine fans who understand that X3 was pure crap and were actually pissed over what they did to Scott. So not ALL Wolverine fans suck.

Person i remember the most is Olcanuckelhead the worst of the Wolverwinies. lol j/k about that last part.

I made i nice little song for this thread:

This is the thread that doesn't end yes it goes on and on my friends Some ppl started posting without knowing where they stood and they kept posting on and on forever just because (back to the top)

 

[gambitfire]

I was thinking of posting something along these lines, this morning (though unlikely to be as well put).
With this type of movie, I'm looking for enjoyment not something to pull to pieces. I went in with the right expectations and I enjoyed it. It wasn't the film I'd hoped for immediately after seeing X2, but it was better than most of the popcorn movies out there.

Props, for you knew what it was.

Not what it should have been.

 

[X-Maniac]

Props, for you knew what it was.

Not what it should have been.

However, I do not think it was that 'popcorn'....

For me, 'popcorn' is POTC (no emotion or seriousness) and those silly comedies that the USA keeps inflicting on the rest of the world.

 

[gambitfire]

Well thats YOUR opinion now isn't it

 

[gambitfire]

However, I do not think it was that 'popcorn'....

For me, 'popcorn' is POTC (no emotion or seriousness) and those silly comedies that the USA keeps inflicting on the rest of the world.

BTW X-Men barely comes in second too POTC as far as popcorn films go, according too their reviews.

OH and POTC was ment to be Popcorn and yet it still had something good about it.

 

[X-Maniac]

Well thats YOUR opinion now isn't it

Indeed it is.

Returning to the 'power-amping' effect of the Phoenix, I believe it's something to do with her extreme telekinesis (mind over matter) 'exciting' the particles around her, giving them more energy. Ultimately, more energy than they can deal with, so they break free of molecular bonds and discorporate. Except in Wolverine's case, as he has a regenerative ability.

It does make a kind of sense... but I admit it wasn't explained and was only obvious in the movie when her powers made electronic systems and objects go crazy into an over-agitated state (museum monitors in X2, the infirmary equipment in X3).

Since Claremont goes into it in detail in the novel, we have to assume it's what was intended. Even if you think it makes no sense, it's the explanation...

 

[gambitfire]

Detail makes it sound like it makes sense is all .

But the novel isn't the movie. And the movie didn't emphasis it too the point where the electronic systems going haywire connects to the amplification of mutant powers.

 

[X-Maniac]

BTW X-Men barely comes in second too POTC as far as popcorn films go, according too their reviews.

OH and POTC was ment to be Popcorn and yet it still had something good about it.

What was this 'something good' about POTC then? It was glaringly obvious escapist popcorn summer fun that appealed to a wide demographic because of its title (kids love pirates).

There's much more seriousness and emotion in X3.

X3 has more emotion than SR, much more passion. What might make it considered popcorn (the mutant cameos like Juggernaut, Multiple Man? the strong comicbook 'feel'?).

SR is definitely not popcorn; it's too dark and leaden for that.