Why Thor or Superman cannot beat Sentry.

Discussion in 'Marvel Comics' started by MajinShenron, May 14, 2006.

  1. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0


    Did you know the character Access that first appeared in that Marvel vs DC crossover later appeared in a Green Lantern book? That would technically make DC vs Marvel canon.
     
  2. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0

    Do you mean "used to be" in terms of pre crisis and post crisis? Because Kal El has moved a planet not easy like he was able to pre crisis though and passed light speed well flying.
     
  3. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    13,498
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's interesting, but now we have two contradictory continuities. I'd say that since JLA/Avengers came out later that it takes precedence, but I wouldn't be sure. Besides, the point I was trying to make is still stands, that there's no way both of them are in continuity.

    Superman's been weakened a lot from his pre-Crisis power levels, but considering how ridiculously powerful he was pre-Crisis that's not saying a lot. You say that he is one of the strongest heroes in both the DC and Marvel worlds, but the difference in power between the Marvel and DC universes has been getting wider and wider apart for a long time now; saying that you're one of the strongest heroes in the DCU is very different from saying that you're one of the strongest in the Marvel U. Superman's power was relatively tame throughout the 90s, but since then he's gotten much closer to his Pre-Crisis feats than he was just after the Man of Steel revamp.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    It doesn't matter if he had help both times, anyone who is able to affect even a smallest fraction of a moon's orbit, much less a planet's, is so far out of of Venom's power range that it isn't even funny. There's just no way you can make an argument for Venom being a threat against someone who can do this.
     
  4. Kotagg Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Stuff like that reminds me why I don't read DC. ;)
     
  5. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0


    There's uber powerful characters in Marvel....:confused:
     
  6. Kotagg Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Right, but I've never seen anyone physically move the earth by pulling it along in a MAGICAL LASSO.

    I don't know; maybe I haven't read enough of the more bizarre Marvel comics, but there it is for you. There's a certain point at which you try to suspend your disbelief so far that it snaps. :D
     
  7. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Have you been reading the way Wolverines been writen?
     
  8. Venom.Symbiote Registered

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2005
    Messages:
    626
    Likes Received:
    0
    You and me both.

    Anyway, in my opinion there is no way Venom should have been able to beat Superman. Obviously from my name you should be able to tell who I like better, but I am a logical person and see things as they should be, not as someone else interprets them. If you want to say that crossovers are canon that's fine but then you must consider that in one of the very first ones Superman stood still while an angry Hulk pummeled him. No matter how hard Hulk hit him, he didn't move. So by the logic of some of the posters here that would mean that Venom has a stronger punch than the Hulk since he knocked Supes around. As much as I would love to believe that Venom could beat up Supes I know that unless he was hit by the red kryptonite ray (like Spidey was in another old crossover) he'd break his hands hitting him unless Supes rolled with the punches. In another crossover Batman knocked the wind out of the Hulk. C'mon now, it was Batman. A guy with NO superhuman strength whatsoever shouldn't be able to hit the Hulk hard enough for him to even notice. That would be like a gnat flying as fast as it could and hitting you square in the back. Ok, maybe a cottonball, I'll give him SOME credit.

    I think that if crossovers were canon then Marvel and DC heros would mention each other all the time and help each other out more often. If they were canon, whenever Galactus decided to eat Earth all heros from both companies would show. As it is, each company is a different universe on its own and has nothing to do with one another. I haven't read the JLA/Avengers one but I've read plenty of others and they are clearly written with a grain of salt.

    If crossovers are canon then are the movies too? So the origin of Spider-man is different now since the movie told it differently than the comics? What about Dr. Doom? What about television? What about when the Hulk was "Dr. David Banner, physician, scientist searching for a way to tap into the hidden strength that all humans have.....?" Did that change anything in the comic? No, but if all comic related things are canon then it should have. :venom:
     
  9. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0

    Captain America did it. I'm not trying to vailidate it though because neither should be able to effect Hulk.
     
  10. Tropico Crusty, ol' curmudgeon.

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Messages:
    8,090
    Likes Received:
    0
    Wrong!!!!!!!! All of the Pre-Crisis Superman comics still exist, yet they're no longer canon. Heck, the Man of Steel ret-conn is no longer canon either and it's still exists! Look at the Legion of Superheroes, they've been rebooted twice already. Look at the Elseworlds comics or the What If's?? Have you seen anything to indicate that the Dr. Strange Matrix-wannabe mini is canon? The whole "The Other" and spider totem thing might seem like it's expanding Spidey history but it's actually changing the canon of what Spider-Man was supposed to be. Just because something saw print it doesn't mean it's canonical, other posters have said it before me; learn it, memorize it, live it.

    In regards to JLA/Avenger, I do remember reading an interview where it was said that it was canonical. If I'm not mistaken the question went something like: "And will THIS be the crossover that's finally in continuity?" The answer was yes. I think it was in Newsarama and it had a couple of the creators (I think it was George Perez and someone else). It caught my attention because they said that it WOULD impact both universes and I was extremely skeptical because that's what everyone says. Up 'til now only DC has had the cojones to keep their word.
     
  11. Kool-Aid Registered

    Joined:
    May 7, 2006
    Messages:
    1,458
    Likes Received:
    0
    Which they did after the other one too.
     
  12. MJB Registered

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    3,333
    Likes Received:
    0

    Um that Supes vs Venom was the result of bad writting. Supes would mop the floor easily with venom. Since Sentry has yet to do anything impressive, well wake me up when he actually does something spectacular.
     
  13. Horrorfan Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,112
    Likes Received:
    0
    So show me where anyone from DC or Marvel has said that those comics 'aren't cannon'. Not 'they don't mention it, so it's not cannon', I want to see them EXPLICITLY state, beyond all doubt, that it's not cannon (in those words).
     
  14. BrianWilly Disciple of Whedon

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2003
    Messages:
    13,498
    Likes Received:
    0
    So show me where anyone from DC or Marvel has said that those comics 'are canon'. Not 'they don't mention it, so it is canon', I want to see them EXPLICITLY state, beyond all doubt, that it is canon (in those words).

    You make up these weird rules for what's in canon or not in canon and frankly it's about as logical as anything you're accusing other people of saying. If events blatantly contradict each other, they are not in the same continuity, simple as that; it's hardly rocket science. It has nothing to do with fan bias or whatever the heck you think. If you'd bothered to read, you'd notice that "JLA/Avengers" and "Marvel vs DC" can't both be canon. Either only one of them is canon or neither of them are. Already your criterion fails: both are in print, but both can't be canon because they contradict each other and therefore do not make canonical sense.

    Here's another example: before "Marvel vs DC" was released, both companies had already been releasing "DC/Marvel Crossover Classics."

    [​IMG]

    In this continuity, Marvel characters and DC characters lived in the same universe. Gotham was a city that Spider-Man could visit without going to another reality, and the Fantastic Four were fans of Superman. So here is yet another company crossover event that contradicts the events of the others. They're not in the same continuity because they can't all have happened in the timeline of these characters. Comic book continuity is hard enough to keep track without crossovers with other universes, and it's hardly some sort of fanboy bias if people choose ignore events from certain ambiguously-stated crossovers.
     
  15. BAH HUMBBUG! There's an invisible man

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2006
    Messages:
    9,679
    Likes Received:
    26
    No joke, pre-crisis supes was ridiculously strong. Forgte Hulk 150,000,000,000 tons. Superman was moving planets on a regular basis.
     
  16. Harlekin Business

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2003
    Messages:
    20,589
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like how you just forgot the rest of my post, which actually explains to you why some things aren't canon, but I'll play along. As I and BrianWilly have pointed out, DC and Marvel did crossovers before they did Marvel vs DC. This would mean the following:

    -Superman is a herald of Galactus
    -Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson fought alongside Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes during the second World War
    --Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne Jr. find the frozen body of Steve Rogers during the 60's.
    -The Punisher has fought both Batmen and has shown up in Gotham

    Everytime a DC or Marvel rewrites something that has come before, that past is no longer in contuinity. Examples (from both Marvel and DC):
    -Bucky died
    -Fury's mom is Wonder Woman
    -Jason Todd died
    -The Steve Rogers Captain America was around after the second World War
    -Jean Grey=Phoenix=clone=Jean Grey=Phoenix

    Heck, I'll even repost those bits you seemed to miss:

     
  17. UK_Stu Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2004
    Messages:
    1,273
    Likes Received:
    0
    You're spot on Harlekin. I'm not even sure somepeople, Horrorfan comes to mind, actually understand what continuity is.

    Essentially it doesn't matter what has been printed about a character(s), or whats happened to them in the past, their continuity is only what has happened to them in the past in their universe, which hasn't been re-written or officially wiped out. Look at Wolverine's past/origin for a start.

    Nobody has to make an official sataement to to say "this isn't canon" or "this is canon" - its obvious
     
  18. i'm Spider-Man Registered

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2002
    Messages:
    3,355
    Likes Received:
    0

    .. he did?
     
  19. Ahura Mazda Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    0

    Supposedly...but I think it is bad writing.
     
  20. Varient Guru for Geeks

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    Messages:
    13,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    lol.

    Okay,....

    Currently by Canon,... Sentry beats Thor And Superman,...( By feats they havenot shown an upper limit to his powers or what he can do,...)

    Sentry - depending on how he feels on a given day can be beat or slowed down by a street-level creature up to a herald of Galactus.

    On a good day he beats ANYTHING with simplistic ease.

    Go figure.
     
  21. Ahura Mazda Registered

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2003
    Messages:
    10,807
    Likes Received:
    0

    One thing I don't quite understand is how he
    was defeated by the collective
    when supposedly he can stand up to Galactus.
     
  22. Varient Guru for Geeks

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2003
    Messages:
    13,016
    Likes Received:
    0
    LOL

    How do u really feel.
     
  23. Horrorfan Registered

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2006
    Messages:
    5,112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then so if they never happened, what was the point of making them?

    I am pretty sure DC vs Marvel at least is in canon. Im not sure about the earlier ones, but as well as the afterformentioned character who appeared in a regular marvel/dc title, it's pretty clear that characters were plucked from the 'ordinary' 'verse they live in to fight. No alternate reality there. So I don't care how many 'OH NOES! WOLVERINE BEAT LOBO!!!1!! TAHT'S TEH GHEY' I hear, it doesn't matter. All that matters is that it happend. I mean you can't pick and choose what to believe and what to ignore. DC vs Marvel (at least) does not in any way, shape or form distort continuity, since all characters are plucked from their own universe to fight, and don't live in the same universe or whatever. It's kinda like the exiles meets gladiator.

    If none of it's cannon, whats the point of debating if Venom would beat Superman or not? You render the argument moot, since if a meeting did happen again, you would say it doesn't count (but I have a funny feeling had your favourites won, you would be singing a different tune...). So arguing about it is totally pointless if you are gonna disregard what evidence you DO have and base it on pointless fanboy speculation.

    Comic logic goes like this: it doesn't matter how powerful the superhero is; it's about what the writer feels is best for the scene. How crappy would it have been had supes disintergrated him in page 2? You would have a popular dead character, and you would have paid a few bucks for a two page comic. You have to remember: COMICS AREN'T REAL. Period.

    I'm sorry, but what happened and is in print is more justifiable than some fanboy's 'reasons' why supes would pwn venom or whatever. I go by what happened in the comics. When it comes to the comics, what's in print is what is.


    Even if you wish to ignore the comics are canon, well you have the only representation of what would happen, outside of your own head, so it's hard to argue against it. Even if it's not 'in continuity', you have the events that WOULD happen had the two heros meet.
     
  24. bkhedr Man of Mayhem

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,529
    Likes Received:
    0
    The reason its out of conituity (the comic book companies put it out of contiunity themselves) is because its out of character for the characters and its not what WOULD happen

    Its what one writer was TOLD to MAKE HAPPEN in one measly OUT OF CONTINUITY story which is out of continuity because the editors know its hogwash and realize that its just a showcase for the characters that doesnt need to make sense.

    Case in point venom vs Superman

    Its out of continuity because its baloney. Its just part of some ill conceived marketing ploy, good for MARVEL that the venom fanboys bought it but that doesnt mean the rest of us has to suffer. so..its out of continuity and isnt canon

    end of story
     
  25. gildea Registered

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2001
    Messages:
    4,887
    Likes Received:
    0
    He was pushed away.

    Not really a defeat.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"