Why Thor or Superman cannot beat Sentry.

[newmexneon]

Lobo fan eh?

That was one small part of why it was so terrible. Diana should have easily smacked the **** out of storm but of course X-fans are blind. There were other things but I can't remember all of them.

 

[Warhammer]

Venom beat Superman.

End of story.

Saying that deserves a good slap.

 

[Varient]

One thing I don't quite understand is how he

Spoiler

was defeated by the collective

when supposedly he can stand up to Galactus.

Not defeated,.. shunted elsewhere.

Marvel does this with characters too powerful for the story,... throw Juggernaut or cage into the ocen a few miles out to sea,... shunt the hulk to another dimension, shunt Sentry into a vortex,.....


All the same dodge.

I like how they geve her (the super adaptoid) all of what made the sentry.
It was a nice touch .

 

[LibrarianThorne]

Sentry, if written at his "equaling Galactus" and "power of a million exploding suns" level, could easily manhandle Thor or Superman one on one.

Throwing the two together at Sentry proves more of a challenge for Marvel's Big Yellow S. I'd still give it to Sentry 8/10 times.

If Sentry is at New Avengers level, Thor takes him down 7/10 times and he pulls a 50/50 with Big Blue. Thor and Superman together beat the Sentry rather handily, though.

 

[BAH HUMBBUG!]

Sentry, if written at his "equaling Galactus" and "power of a million exploding suns" level, could easily manhandle Thor or Superman one on one.

Throwing the two together at Sentry proves more of a challenge for Marvel's Big Yellow S. I'd still give it to Sentry 8/10 times.

If Sentry is at New Avengers level, Thor takes him down 7/10 times and he pulls a 50/50 with Big Blue. Thor and Superman together beat the Sentry rather handily, though.

Well if you want to talk about different incarnations and various style writting periods for the character.

Take Superman Prime or take Pre-Crisis Superman.

 

[ElectroFlare]

Oh, geez...

For the sake of argument let's assume that the scene in question is canonical; Superman's a big wuss that gets kicked around by Venom and this actually happened, whatever. But before and after that scene happened, Superman has been shown shattering mountains, flying through stars, moving at many times the speed of sound, and pushing planets around. We know that is what Superman can actually do, so obviously that scene with Venom was a showing of him at his very, very worst. You know Superman is ordinarily stronger than Venom. Everyone who's seen any comic with those two knows this. So even if that scene actually happened within the context of both universes' continuity, it can't be anything but a poor example of the two characters' power levels. It can't be used as much evidence for anything, much less the Sentry's power levels.

Does that look familiar, Horrorfan? It's because I copied and pasted my exact words from a page ago when this exact complaint was already answered. You want to take that Venom fight seriously? Fine. No one else does for very obvious reasons that have been explained to you over and over again. But obviously you need to hear it one more time because it didn't go through to your head the first several times: For that fight to be taken seriously, you'd have to ignore every single other instance of Superman showing that he is stronger than Venom ever could be. And there have been many, many instances of this. That is the definition of continuity, that prior and future events have to be taken into consideration. When characters don't behave logically in accordance to those past and future events, they are either victims of bad writing, mischaracterization, flawed narrative, or all of the above.

You are not taking those prior and future events into consideration. You continuously accuse people of being biased about whether something is canon or not, and yet here you are doing the EXACT. SAME. THING. It's not that you accept Venom beating Superman because there's no other proof out there; the other proof has been shoved into your face repeatedly. No, you're simply accepting it because you want to. Your attitude concerning the Marvel vs DC crossover and your snippant demeanor towards the fans makes this plain for all to see. ("Wolverine PWNED Lobo too ")

You keep saying "comic books don't make sense so stop expecting them to make sense," which is utter nonsense. If there were no sense in comic books, we'd never be able to have any discussions on anything about them. We couldn't be able to say, "Spider-Man is fast" if at any moment it would be completely logical for him to be slow as hell out of the blue. This is a fictional universe with its own fictional rules and its own line of logic, and if you can't follow that line of logic...well, that's just your own dang problem, isn't it, 'cause the rest of us are doing just fine.

This is the logic: Superman can move planets. Venom can't. Therefore Superman is stronger than Venom.

End of story.

Well said.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

Well if you want to talk about different incarnations and various style writting periods for the character.

Take Superman Prime or take Pre-Crisis Superman.

Except the "million exploding suns" Sentry is suppoedly the same character that's in New Avengers, when the one in New Avengers is clearly not at Galactus level strength. Pre-Crisis Superman and Superman Prime are different versions of Superman, New Avengers Sentry is supposed to be the same Rob Reynolds that's in both Sentry miniseries, despite the blatant power difference.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

They explained the Sentry's power fluctuations in his mini-series. Like Gladiator, the Sentry's powers are tied to his confidence. So if Thor or Superman caught the Sentry on a good day, they'd probably be toast. But if they caught him on a bad day, they'd probably kick his ass. Stupid, but that's the standing explanation.

As for the Marvel/DC crossovers as "proof" of anything--has anyone mentioned that Batman actually hurt the Hulk by kicking him in the side in one of those? Because that's about all the proof you need that those crossovers don't prove a damn thing.

 

[ang_hulk]

sentrys a fad,I think he could take superman but if sentrys powers come from the sun then mabey supes could feed off of them.....either way hulk takes them both

 

[Anubis]

Nah, Hulk turns into a love struck Toddler in Sentry's presence.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Yeah, it's great to see Hulk fans get all pissy because he turns into even more of a moron than usual around the Sentry.

 

[MJOILNIR]

Someone mentioned character incarnations, good point. Pre-crisis superman, King Thor/odinforce is on level with cosmic entities. Im making that assumtion based on odins stats. Several where in the cl1000 and cl3000 range.

 

[Kool-Aid]

As for the Marvel/DC crossovers as "proof" of anything--has anyone mentioned that Batman actually hurt the Hulk by kicking him in the side in one of those? Because that's about all the proof you need that those crossovers don't prove a damn thing.

Meh, I've seen worse that is considered canon and people try to use that as evidence.

 

[Anubis]

Like when Thor got shot in the head by a high calibur rifle in an issue of Black Panther and got knocked out for like ten minutes. No disrespect to Priest, but that was one of the dumbest things i've ever seen. But, it's canon. Assuming Priest run on BP hasn't been retconed of course.

 

[bkhedr]

They explained the Sentry's power fluctuations in his mini-series. Like Gladiator, the Sentry's powers are tied to his confidence. So if Thor or Superman caught the Sentry on a good day, they'd probably be toast. But if they caught him on a bad day, they'd probably kick his ass. Stupid, but that's the standing explanation.

As for the Marvel/DC crossovers as "proof" of anything--has anyone mentioned that Batman actually hurt the Hulk by kicking him in the side in one of those? Because that's about all the proof you need that those crossovers don't prove a damn thing.

yup that sums it up except that I think it was related to his emotional state

I guess that's nothing more than an asthetic difference to make his powers different than Gladiator's but still

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Like when Thor got shot in the head by a high calibur rifle in an issue of Black Panther and got knocked out for like ten minutes. No disrespect to Priest, but that was one of the dumbest things i've ever seen. But, it's canon. Assuming Priest run on BP hasn't been retconed of course.

Spider-Man stomping Firelord's ass and the Red Skull and Korvac pretty much letting Captain America beat them when they were practically omnipotent are others that come to my mind.

 

[herakles]

Except the "million exploding suns" Sentry is suppoedly the same character that's in New Avengers, when the one in New Avengers is clearly not at Galactus level strength. Pre-Crisis Superman and Superman Prime are different versions of Superman, New Avengers Sentry is supposed to be the same Rob Reynolds that's in both Sentry miniseries, despite the blatant power difference.

I will never understand this "power of a million exploding suns" to me that says he can just blow himself like that. Also the part him drawing with Galactus is cool BUT Thor beat Galactus with a God Blast in issue Thor 161(Galactus ran stating that if he stayed around he would DIE!). Beta Ray Bill also injuried him in his mini.

I feel that especially now with Thor having the Rune magic along with Mjolnir he could take Sentry easy! And when Thor returns if he is without either the Odinpower or the Rune magic I still think if they fought He'd win 60 -70% of the time they fight! But that's my opinion!

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Galactus was hungry and had been fighting Ego for a while before that.

 

[Tropico]

I will never understand this "power of a million exploding suns" to me that says he can just blow himself like that.

Blow himself UP like that, UP!!! Otherwise it would be part of the Marvel MAX imprint and maybe not even that would allow it!

Also the part him drawing with Galactus is cool

Awwww! That sounds sweet, we should have more scenes like that in comics and not just mindless violence.


just kidding!

 

[Horrorfan]

Oh, geez...

For the sake of argument let's assume that the scene in question is canonical; Superman's a big wuss that gets kicked around by Venom and this actually happened, whatever. But before and after that scene happened, Superman has been shown shattering mountains, flying through stars, moving at many times the speed of sound, and pushing planets around. We know that is what Superman can actually do, so obviously that scene with Venom was a showing of him at his very, very worst. You know Superman is ordinarily stronger than Venom. Everyone who's seen any comic with those two knows this. So even if that scene actually happened within the context of both universes' continuity, it can't be anything but a poor example of the two characters' power levels. It can't be used as much evidence for anything, much less the Sentry's power levels.

Does that look familiar, Horrorfan? It's because I copied and pasted my exact words from a page ago when this exact complaint was already answered. You want to take that Venom fight seriously? Fine. No one else does for very obvious reasons that have been explained to you over and over again. But obviously you need to hear it one more time because it didn't go through to your head the first several times: For that fight to be taken seriously, you'd have to ignore every single other instance of Superman showing that he is stronger than Venom ever could be. And there have been many, many instances of this. That is the definition of continuity, that prior and future events have to be taken into consideration. When characters don't behave logically in accordance to those past and future events, they are either victims of bad writing, mischaracterization, flawed narrative, or all of the above.

You are not taking those prior and future events into consideration. You continuously accuse people of being biased about whether something is canon or not, and yet here you are doing the EXACT. SAME. THING. It's not that you accept Venom beating Superman because there's no other proof out there; the other proof has been shoved into your face repeatedly. No, you're simply accepting it because you want to. Your attitude concerning the Marvel vs DC crossover and your snippant demeanor towards the fans makes this plain for all to see. ("Wolverine PWNED Lobo too ")

You keep saying "comic books don't make sense so stop expecting them to make sense," which is utter nonsense. If there were no sense in comic books, we'd never be able to have any discussions on anything about them. We couldn't be able to say, "Spider-Man is fast" if at any moment it would be completely logical for him to be slow as hell out of the blue. This is a fictional universe with its own fictional rules and its own line of logic, and if you can't follow that line of logic...well, that's just your own dang problem, isn't it, 'cause the rest of us are doing just fine.

This is the logic: Superman can move planets. Venom can't. Therefore Superman is stronger than Venom.

End of story.

Marvel vs DC was published by both companies. Therefore it has more merit than some guy on a message board. You are saying it never happened, even though the proof it did happen is quite clear to see on previous pages. You could probably buy the issue in which it happened. But even then, holding it in your hands, you would say 'it never happened'. I see the proof that it did. So sorry chum. Everything you say about the fight is speculation. I have the comic pages (printed by both companies) to endorse my point of view.

Go to your non fanboy friends , show them the comic and say 'oh this fight didn't happen because it's not canon...' most likely they will laugh right in your face.

I'm sorry, but to me, if it's avalible in comics, it's truth. AGAIN, COMICS AREN'T REAL. Reality doesn't apply to them, in any way shape or form. Hell if it did, don't you think superman spinning round the earth at super speed would grind it off it's axis? Maybe it did get reconned or whatever, but it's still better than fan fiction and speculation, which is just totally useless really, especially when you have seen a fight and choose to disregard it.

Like I say, if you can't understand why power levels flunctuate in comics, why are you even reading them? They fluctuate to serve the scene and the story. If you don't get that, and think characters in comics should always be at the same level of power, then you would get some pretty crappy stories with the villains squashed in about three pages. If YOU think it's possible to keep things totally, 100% in canon, you should write for marvel, because you're probably the only person in the world who could do that. You dismiss it as bad writing? Send a story into marvel and get a job then.

Powers are often relative to the scene. Superman IS stronger than venom, but that doesn't mean he would ALWAYS win the fight. There's a lot of factors involved in a fight, not just nessicarily who's the strongest, fastest, or has the most power.

 

[Whirlysplat]

Marvel vs DC was published by both companies. Therefore it has more merit than some guy on a message board. You are saying it never happened, even though the proof it did happen is quite clear to see on previous pages. You could probably buy the issue in which it happened. But even then, holding it in your hands, you would say 'it never happened'. I see the proof that it did. So sorry chum. Everything you say about the fight is speculation. I have the comic pages (printed by both companies) to endorse my point of view.

Go to your non fanboy friends , show them the comic and say 'oh this fight didn't happen because it's not canon...' most likely they will laugh right in your face.

I'm sorry, but to me, if it's avalible in comics, it's truth. AGAIN, COMICS AREN'T REAL. Reality doesn't apply to them, in any way shape or form. Hell if it did, don't you think superman spinning round the earth at super speed would grind it off it's axis? Maybe it did get reconned or whatever, but it's still better than fan fiction and speculation, which is just totally useless really, especially when you have seen a fight and choose to disregard it.

Like I say, if you can't understand why power levels flunctuate in comics, why are you even reading them? They fluctuate to serve the scene and the story. If you don't get that, and think characters in comics should always be at the same level of power, then you would get some pretty crappy stories with the villains squashed in about three pages. If YOU think it's possible to keep things totally, 100% in canon, you should write for marvel, because you're probably the only person in the world who could do that. You dismiss it as bad writing? Send a story into marvel and get a job then.

Powers are often relative to the scene. Superman IS stronger than venom, but that doesn't mean he would ALWAYS win the fight. There's a lot of factors involved in a fight, not just nessicarily who's the strongest, fastest, or has the most power.

- Whirly

 

[bkhedr]

Galactus was hungry and had been fighting Ego for a while before that.

Do we know this for sure? I figured Galactus had to have been hungry but I didnt hear anything about a fight against Ego

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I just looked through the issue. He's hungry and trying to feed off of Ego, but Ego fights him to stop him from doing so. Thor shows up and decides to help Ego out, so he throws Mjolnir and it hurts Galactus, then he uses a god blast and it makes Galactus turn tail claiming he'd die if he got hit by it.

 

[Horrorfan]

I just looked through the issue. He's hungry and trying to feed off of Ego, but Ego fights him to stop him from doing so. Thor shows up and decides to help Ego out, so he throws Mjolnir and it hurts Galactus, then he uses a god blast and it makes Galactus turn tail claiming he'd die if he got hit by it.

Having the help of a whole planet makes it less impressive...but still, not bad. But it does make you wonder why he can't do it the other times the heroes fought galactus........

 

[BrianWilly]

Marvel vs DC was published by both companies. Therefore it has more merit than some guy on a message board. You are saying it never happened, even though the proof it did happen is quite clear to see on previous pages. You could probably buy the issue in which it happened. But even then, holding it in your hands, you would say 'it never happened'. I see the proof that it did. So sorry chum. Everything you say about the fight is speculation. I have the comic pages (printed by both companies) to endorse my point of view.

Go to your non fanboy friends , show them the comic and say 'oh this fight didn't happen because it's not canon...' most likely they will laugh right in your face.

I'm sorry, but to me, if it's avalible in comics, it's truth. AGAIN, COMICS AREN'T REAL. Reality doesn't apply to them, in any way shape or form. Hell if it did, don't you think superman spinning round the earth at super speed would grind it off it's axis? Maybe it did get reconned or whatever, but it's still better than fan fiction and speculation, which is just totally useless really, especially when you have seen a fight and choose to disregard it.

Like I say, if you can't understand why power levels flunctuate in comics, why are you even reading them? They fluctuate to serve the scene and the story. If you don't get that, and think characters in comics should always be at the same level of power, then you would get some pretty crappy stories with the villains squashed in about three pages. If YOU think it's possible to keep things totally, 100% in canon, you should write for marvel, because you're probably the only person in the world who could do that. You dismiss it as bad writing? Send a story into marvel and get a job then.

Powers are often relative to the scene. Superman IS stronger than venom, but that doesn't mean he would ALWAYS win the fight. There's a lot of factors involved in a fight, not just nessicarily who's the strongest, fastest, or has the most power.

Could you please do us all a big favor, Horrorfan, and not directly reply to these posts if you're not going to read a single thing in them?

I already said, "assume that the Venom fight is canon." That means that I am assuming the Venom fight is canon. It does not mean "I still don't think the Venom fight is canon." If that's what I meant, I would have said it. But I didn't. So there goes the first three paragraphs of your post.

My point was that even if the Venom fight is in canon, you can't hold it up as some sort of supreme proof of Venom's superiority because someone like me would then readily reply with pictures of Superman moving moons and planet around. You know, like exactly what has happened in this thread that you've been reading? If both are in canon, then the only way you would still be able to tout Venom's superiority is by ignoring the canonical evidence that I've given you. Which, coincidentally, you've done.

So how exactly do you determine whether one piece of canon is more canonical than the other? Well, that's a big subject matter that I don't truly have the answers to, but what I do know is that you've determined that one piece of canon is more canonical than the other purely and utterly out of BIAS: you don't mind Venom beating Superman but don't like it when DC characters move planets around, so you've elevated Venom beating Superman as higher canon than him moving planets around. Which, by the by, is exactly what you continuously accuse other people of doing. Glass houses, chum. Glass houses.

If Superman can move planets and is still being beaten by Venom then that's just bad writing, period. It has nothing whatsoever to do with comic book logic, and I have no idea why you are still harping on that because it is an entirely different subject matter. Comic book logic means that certain things happen in this fictional universe which do not happen in ours, but always with its own rules and logics. It does not mean that random illogical sht happens with no explanation or reason. Venom beating Superman definitely ranks as random illogical sht happens with no explanation or reason.