The Dark Knight Will it be too dark for the children?

[Mr. Socko]

Christian Bale suggested last year the possibility of actually releasing 2 differently rated versions of TDK. One can be for over 17 and the other one PG 13. I don't know if that could be possible. It's never been done to my knowledge. But I would love to see a Joker that really lives up to the name of the maniac in the comic books and a Batman that actually displays his humanity, sexuality and rage in a deeper, darker manner.

If Bale said that 'last year' then it was when filming had not begun and the script was not finalized. So I would take that comment with...a single grain of salt.

 

[Devan]

You're kidding right? Both of those would definately be rated R. Read Arkham Asylum again...

I would definately give Arkham asylum a pg-13.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I agree, it's mostly just "disturbing imagery." It's been proven decapitated heads do not garner an R rating, which is quite disturbing in a way.

 

[sasquatchs]

Christian Bale suggested last year the possibility of actually releasing 2 differently rated versions of TDK. One can be for over 17 and the other one PG 13. I don't know if that could be possible. It's never been done to my knowledge. But I would love to see a Joker that really lives up to the name of the maniac in the comic books and a Batman that actually displays his humanity, sexuality and rage in a deeper, darker manner.

I think he said that during Begins production, some stage of the last film anyway. I agree, I kind of sense some disappointment from him, it's a pretty lightweight film in comparison to his other work. Sadly I think Nolan's intention was always something very mainstream, well within the ratings boundaries.

 

[Sadaskaa]

I just hope that gay cowboy does a good job as the joker

Ledger's not a gay cowboy.

 

[Sadaskaa]

What? I'm not bull****ting...

 

[Devan]

You sound like an Arnold Schwarzenegger soundboard.

 

[Mr. Socko]

You sound like an Arnold Schwarzenegger soundboard.

Haha, j00 all girly men

 

[CristoTheSecond]

I think he said that during Begins production, some stage of the last film anyway. I agree, I kind of sense some disappointment from him, it's a pretty lightweight film in comparison to his other work. Sadly I think Nolan's intention was always something very mainstream, well within the ratings boundaries.

What's wrong with that? Most people feel like "Batman Begins" worked. The thing that's going to make "The Dark Knight" better isn't an increase of gore or violence. It's going to be tighter writing, better acting, pathos, a better villain, etc.

Doesn't mean it's NOT going to be more violent, but there are a lot of PG-13 movies with great amounts of violence (ROTK, Casino Royale, etc.) that I don't think TDK is going to be violent as.

But, TDK isn't even going to be close to R, even with all the violent shenanigans and sadistic actions, simply because it will have minimal language and no sexual situations. Probably a PG-13 for "intense action/violence, disturbing images, and thematic elements" which is identical to the original film's rating except for the "some thematic elements". I do expect a huge increase in the "thematic elements" for this sequel.

 

[sasquatchs]

Nothing per se, I thought Begins didn't work as a serious film because of the quality of the writing more than anything else. The ratings stuff would be a distant 2nd, there is way more space to work with within the rating, it's true. It's the smart "themetic elements" that I'm hoping to see this time more than gore or language, although that wouldn't hurt either

 

[Nightwing1977]

I agree, it's mostly just "disturbing imagery." It's been proven decapitated heads do not garner an R rating, which is quite disturbing in a way.

Yep. I'm even amazed Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones got away with a PG rating when Jango got decapitated.

 

[Infinity9999x]

You're kidding right? Both of those would definately be rated R. Read Arkham Asylum again...

I've had this conversation before. What does DKR have that would come even close to an R rated movie? It's not overly gory, and there's no nudity.

What does Arkham Asylum have in it that would warrant an R rated movie? Decapitated heads? Watch Lord of the Rings, not only does that movie have decapitated heads, it has them on pikes, and last time I checked it was Pg-13.

Look at movies like The Grudge, King Kong, Lord of the Rings, The Ring (all of which are Pg-13) and name one thing that either of those Graphic Novels has that would make it be an R rated movie while the other movies I mentioned weren't.

Heck, in Lord of the rings we see Huge Spiders, decapitated Heads, people getting their fingers cut off. In the Grudge we see a girl with her lower jaw ripped off, all of which are more graphic then the material in TDKR and AA.

 

[Solidus]

I've had this conversation before. What does DKR have that would come even close to an R rated movie? It's not overly gory, and there's no nudity.

What does Arkham Asylum have in it that would warrant an R rated movie? Decapitated heads? Watch Lord of the Rings, not only does that movie have decapitated heads, it has them on pikes, and last time I checked it was Pg-13.

Look at movies like The Grudge, King Kong, Lord of the Rings, The Ring (all of which are Pg-13) and name one thing that either of those Graphic Novels has that would make it be an R rated movie while the other movies I mentioned weren't.

Heck, in Lord of the rings we see Huge Spiders, decapitated Heads, people getting their fingers cut off. In the Grudge we see a girl with her lower jaw ripped off, all of which are more graphic then the material in TDKR and AA.

See but that is the problem. You should watch the documentary "This film is not yet rated" And there is another, like book on the subject I can't remember what that was called. But the MPAA is not the all mighty answer for rating, and telling what is appropriate and what is not. LOTR: ROTK SHOULD of been rated R. It was not PG-13, same with The Grudge. Some movies that are big, or pay them off, can get away with it. Matrix Reloaded should of been PG-13, no way was it an R, but the company wanted it to be. See right there is the flaw in that logic. The MPAA is not some definitive entity that is the all knowing in what appropriate material is suitable for certian ages.

To me there was just some scenes in content, how much death, and destruction there was, and scary images in DKR that could get it close to an R. But TKJ, and Batman Year One seems more likley to be close to an R, or R itself.

But as for the MPAA, I never go off of that. I mean we all ready got the possible description for a teaser poster. Joker CRUSHING a animal bat, with blood on it. This is showing that this movie is dark.

 

[Infinity9999x]

See but that is the problem. You should watch the documentary "This film is not yet rated" And there is another, like book on the subject I can't remember what that was called. But the MPAA is not the all mighty answer for rating, and telling what is appropriate and what is not. LOTR: ROTK SHOULD of been rated R. It was not PG-13, same with The Grudge. Some movies that are big, or pay them off, can get away with it. Matrix Reloaded should of been PG-13, no way was it an R, but the company wanted it to be. See right there is the flaw in that logic. The MPAA is not some definitive entity that is the all knowing in what appropriate material is suitable for certian ages.

To me there was just some scenes in content, how much death, and destruction there was, and scary images in DKR that could get it close to an R. But TKJ, and Batman Year One seems more likley to be close to an R, or R itself.

But as for the MPAA, I never go off of that. I mean we all ready got the possible description for a teaser poster. Joker CRUSHING a animal bat, with blood on it. This is showing that this movie is dark.

Now, I would argue that LOTR and the other mentioned movies shouldn't have been R, it's just that the audience today is more desensitized then audiences 10 to 15 years ago.

Not only is there more in Pg-13 movies today then there was 10 years ago, there is also more in R rated films today then in R rated films 10 years ago. People are just used to more violence and gore in their movies, and TV. I'm not saying that that's good or bad, but it just seems to be the way it is.

Now, 15 years ago, or even ten years ago, would Arkham Asylum have been rated R? Most likely, yes, but today? I seriously doubt it.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I'm convinced Matrix Reloaded was ONLY rated R because of split few seconds of nudity which is ridiculous.

I know a guy who has a son that is about 11. He will let him watch rated R movies no matter how much violence they have, just as long as there's no nudity :/

 

[CristoTheSecond]

http://screenit.com/movies/2005/undefinedWell, you guys keep naming specific acts of violence like it would make it close to an R-rating, so let's see what was all in Batman Begins.

Spoiler

1. 8-year-old Bruce accidentally falls down into a hidden well and lands at the bottom (we later hear he broke a bone).

2. In a far off prison, a prisoner confronts Bruce and then punches him twice. Bruce then hits that man back two times, while a general fight breaks out where he punches and otherwise hits various prisoners (with some bone-crunching sounds being heard). A guard then fires a machine gun into the air to break up the melee and we then see a guard push Bruce into a cell.

3. Bruce is thrown from a moving prison truck when freed from the institution (he lands hard on the road but is otherwise okay).

4. Ducard pushes Bruce to the floor, kicks him, and they then spar with more hitting and other blows, including Ducard appearing to head-butt Bruce.

5. A man robs Bruce's family at gunpoint. Bruce's father drops his wallet and the robber bends down to get it, but then shoots the father when he makes a move and then shoots the mother as well (thus Bruce sees his parents die in front of him).

6. Bruce does some brief sword sparing with Ducard.

7. Bruce does more training with Ducard and gets the worse of the wear, with some hard impact to his body from Ducard. We later see more of the same with Ducard beating up Bruce with various blows.

8. We see Bruce concealing a handgun up his sleeve as he waits for his parents' murderer to approach after being freed in a court case. A gunshot then rings out and the man falls to the floor (no blood), but it was someone else who shot him.

9. Rachel twice slaps Bruce when he shows her that he had a gun he was going to use on his parents' murderer.

10. Some of Falcone's thugs violently frisk Bruce, and one pushes him to a chair. Falcone then holds his gun on Bruce to prove a point about the above-the-law power he possesses. Moments later, Falcone's goons grab Bruce and punch him, and we then see them throwing him from an establishment.

11. Bruce does more brief sparring with Ducard among a group of men.

12. Ducard and Ra's Al Ghul want Bruce to execute a criminal by beheading him to prove that Bruce's training is complete. Bruce refuses, but instead hits something with his sword that then catches Ra's Al Ghul's palace on fire. Bruce and Ra's Al Ghul then battle with swords (hitting and kicking each between sword swings), while various explosions from gunpowder blast various other men aside. Part of the ceiling ends up falling on Ra's Al Ghul, while an explosion blasts Bruce (carrying Ducard) outside.

13. Det. Gordon chases Batman with his gun drawn, but Bruce jumps across from one building to another, landing hard on the fire escape and crashing down several levels before catching himself.

14. Several outdoor light bulbs suddenly burst (from Batman throwing a device that hits them).

15. We hear the sound of Batman swooping in and taking out one bad guy at night. Another man fires his machine gun at Batman who avoids the gunfire and quickly grabs another guy in passing. We then see various quick views of Batman hitting many goons.

16. Two assassins are after Rachel when she gets off the train, but one runs away when he sees Batman beating up the other.

17. We see a flashback to two men attacking and knocking out or killing two men on a cargo ship to steal a desired weapon.

18. One or more cops shoot the district attorney in the back (no blood), killing him.

19. Batman hits two goons, but the Scarecrow gets his hallucinogenic dust in Batman's face. As a result, Batman sees maggots on the doc's mask as well as bats flying out from it. Doc then sets Batman on fire and the latter then falls from the building (still on fire) and lands hard on the street below where he manages to put himself out, but his costume is rather singed.

20. We see a quick flashback of Bruce's parents being murdered (he sees it too).

21. Batman hits, knocks around and otherwise fights several armed goons (with some of their guns firing during the attack, including one goon accidentally being shot in the foot by one).

22. Batman sprays the hallucinogenic drug into Crane's face, causing him to see Batman's mask as a monstrous apparition. Batman then slams him back against a wall to knock him out.

23. Batman uses some explosives to blow open doors and/or walls to escape.

24. The batmobile drives over a cop car while trying to escape. During a subsequent chase that lasts for a few minutes and may be suspenseful to some viewers, it causes all sorts of property damage (smashing through things, blowing up walls with explosives, driving across rooftops with related damage, etc.), while various cop cars crash or flip on the road.

25. A man hits another man in the face.

26. Batman starts to fight some goons that have set his manor on fire, but a burning beam falls on him, knocking him unconscious. The manor is later completely engulfed in flames, with pieces of it collapsing.

27. Alfred knocks out a goon so that he can rescue Batman.

28. Some cops tackle an escaped prisoner.

29. A young boy is panicked when he can't find his mom at night in the city, but a SWAT member simply pushes him away by the face.

30. Under the effects of the hallucinogenic drug, Flass nearly shoots two people, but Det. Gordon knocks him out just in time.

31. Rachel shocks a man with her personal zapper.

32. A man with a knife threatens Rachel and a boy, and she aims a gun at him, but Batman arrives and takes out the gunmen.

33. Batman fights four highly trained fighters, resulting in all sorts of brutal punches, kicks and other such impact.

34. Drugged people surround and attack Batman who manages to escape by snaring a line on a fast moving train that he's pulled behind through the air (and he smashes through various structures along the way).

35. Batman fights a villain in a fast-moving train, with various severe blows and while avoiding the villain swinging his blade at him.

36. Det. Gordon shoots explosives at the supports of a train bridge in hopes of bringing it down. He's eventually successful, with the train careening off the broken track, falling several stories and then exploding, along with another explosion of the weapon that was onboard it (and one man is presumably killed).

That is 36 acts of violence in a PG-13 movie! 36!! We've heard of..what so far?...6 acts of violence, maybe? We certainly haven't heard of 36 acts of violence, although I'm sure there'll be probably about 40 maybe. But, that's still going to be about the same level of TDK.

 

[Solidus]

I'm convinced Matrix Reloaded was ONLY rated R because of split few seconds of nudity which is ridiculous.

I know a guy who has a son that is about 11. He will let him watch rated R movies no matter how much violence they have, just as long as there's no nudity :/

I know what you mean, America is horrible on this. We don't mind our children watching people be killed and slaughtered. But you show them nudity, or sex, watch out.

I mean Sex, nudity, it's natural, EVERYONE sees it or does it sooner or later, its human nature. And in most cases it's life giving, and the most important thing one can do. But as American's we seem to have a weird view on it.

Though I was very very young when I watched violent stuff, but my parents explained everything to me, violence, sex everything, no BS. And I turned out fine. I'm only 23 and a few of my friends have kids that are all ready 8 years old. And their parents were the type that were like, don't watch any sex on TV and just made sex seem like some bad thing, and look what happend to them.

I'm just saying TDK will be dark and violent, and yea it won't stop a lot of parents from bringing their kids, because parents are so lazy they just look at the rating, if they see its PG-13 they assume 4 year olds can watch it. I think each parent will need to decide if their kid can handle it, I was a kid that could, but I knew a lot that could not, and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Solidus]

Well, you guys keep naming specific acts of violence like it would make it close to an R-rating, so let's see what was all in Batman Begins.

Spoiler

1. 8-year-old Bruce accidentally falls down into a hidden well and lands at the bottom (we later hear he broke a bone).

2. In a far off prison, a prisoner confronts Bruce and then punches him twice. Bruce then hits that man back two times, while a general fight breaks out where he punches and otherwise hits various prisoners (with some bone-crunching sounds being heard). A guard then fires a machine gun into the air to break up the melee and we then see a guard push Bruce into a cell.

3. Bruce is thrown from a moving prison truck when freed from the institution (he lands hard on the road but is otherwise okay).

4. Ducard pushes Bruce to the floor, kicks him, and they then spar with more hitting and other blows, including Ducard appearing to head-butt Bruce.

5. A man robs Bruce's family at gunpoint. Bruce's father drops his wallet and the robber bends down to get it, but then shoots the father when he makes a move and then shoots the mother as well (thus Bruce sees his parents die in front of him).

6. Bruce does some brief sword sparing with Ducard.

7. Bruce does more training with Ducard and gets the worse of the wear, with some hard impact to his body from Ducard. We later see more of the same with Ducard beating up Bruce with various blows.

8. We see Bruce concealing a handgun up his sleeve as he waits for his parents' murderer to approach after being freed in a court case. A gunshot then rings out and the man falls to the floor (no blood), but it was someone else who shot him.

9. Rachel twice slaps Bruce when he shows her that he had a gun he was going to use on his parents' murderer.

10. Some of Falcone's thugs violently frisk Bruce, and one pushes him to a chair. Falcone then holds his gun on Bruce to prove a point about the above-the-law power he possesses. Moments later, Falcone's goons grab Bruce and punch him, and we then see them throwing him from an establishment.

11. Bruce does more brief sparring with Ducard among a group of men.

12. Ducard and Ra's Al Ghul want Bruce to execute a criminal by beheading him to prove that Bruce's training is complete. Bruce refuses, but instead hits something with his sword that then catches Ra's Al Ghul's palace on fire. Bruce and Ra's Al Ghul then battle with swords (hitting and kicking each between sword swings), while various explosions from gunpowder blast various other men aside. Part of the ceiling ends up falling on Ra's Al Ghul, while an explosion blasts Bruce (carrying Ducard) outside.

13. Det. Gordon chases Batman with his gun drawn, but Bruce jumps across from one building to another, landing hard on the fire escape and crashing down several levels before catching himself.

14. Several outdoor light bulbs suddenly burst (from Batman throwing a device that hits them).

15. We hear the sound of Batman swooping in and taking out one bad guy at night. Another man fires his machine gun at Batman who avoids the gunfire and quickly grabs another guy in passing. We then see various quick views of Batman hitting many goons.

16. Two assassins are after Rachel when she gets off the train, but one runs away when he sees Batman beating up the other.

17. We see a flashback to two men attacking and knocking out or killing two men on a cargo ship to steal a desired weapon.

18. One or more cops shoot the district attorney in the back (no blood), killing him.

19. Batman hits two goons, but the Scarecrow gets his hallucinogenic dust in Batman's face. As a result, Batman sees maggots on the doc's mask as well as bats flying out from it. Doc then sets Batman on fire and the latter then falls from the building (still on fire) and lands hard on the street below where he manages to put himself out, but his costume is rather singed.

20. We see a quick flashback of Bruce's parents being murdered (he sees it too).

21. Batman hits, knocks around and otherwise fights several armed goons (with some of their guns firing during the attack, including one goon accidentally being shot in the foot by one).

22. Batman sprays the hallucinogenic drug into Crane's face, causing him to see Batman's mask as a monstrous apparition. Batman then slams him back against a wall to knock him out.

23. Batman uses some explosives to blow open doors and/or walls to escape.

24. The batmobile drives over a cop car while trying to escape. During a subsequent chase that lasts for a few minutes and may be suspenseful to some viewers, it causes all sorts of property damage (smashing through things, blowing up walls with explosives, driving across rooftops with related damage, etc.), while various cop cars crash or flip on the road.

25. A man hits another man in the face.

26. Batman starts to fight some goons that have set his manor on fire, but a burning beam falls on him, knocking him unconscious. The manor is later completely engulfed in flames, with pieces of it collapsing.

27. Alfred knocks out a goon so that he can rescue Batman.

28. Some cops tackle an escaped prisoner.

29. A young boy is panicked when he can't find his mom at night in the city, but a SWAT member simply pushes him away by the face.

30. Under the effects of the hallucinogenic drug, Flass nearly shoots two people, but Det. Gordon knocks him out just in time.

31. Rachel shocks a man with her personal zapper.

32. A man with a knife threatens Rachel and a boy, and she aims a gun at him, but Batman arrives and takes out the gunmen.

33. Batman fights four highly trained fighters, resulting in all sorts of brutal punches, kicks and other such impact.

34. Drugged people surround and attack Batman who manages to escape by snaring a line on a fast moving train that he's pulled behind through the air (and he smashes through various structures along the way).

35. Batman fights a villain in a fast-moving train, with various severe blows and while avoiding the villain swinging his blade at him.

36. Det. Gordon shoots explosives at the supports of a train bridge in hopes of bringing it down. He's eventually successful, with the train careening off the broken track, falling several stories and then exploding, along with another explosion of the weapon that was onboard it (and one man is presumably killed).

That is 36 acts of violence in a PG-13 movie! 36!! We've heard of..what so far?...6 acts of violence, maybe? We certainly haven't heard of 36 acts of violence, although I'm sure there'll be probably about 40 maybe. But, that's still going to be about the same level of TDK.

Even though we know of very few TDK violence, lets list em out.

-Joker kills a crap load of innocent people by blowing up a Hospital.
-Shoots a bank manager in the head.
-Joker kills innocent by standers after the crash, and goes nuts on Gothamites with a machine gun
-Lots of refrences to cops wanting to kill the "Joker"
-Joker/Grumpy kills one of his own men in the bank. *mos tlikley*
-Joker does rip his own man out of the semi and throws him out *set report*
-People hang an effigey of Batman outside town hall.
-Loeb is killed, most likley by the Joker
-Harvey is scared horribley
-A fat guy blows up with a bomb in his stomach

And didn't Nolan say its called The Dark Knight for a reason, that things are going to get much worse before they get better?

Oh not to mention the teaser poster has the Joker crushing an animal Bat with his hands, with blood driping down.

So though yes TDK aint going to be Saw, but it will be darker in context more so then BB.I see what your saying, but the villians in BB were more so using Gas, and making people go nuts with the fear toxin. Dawes boss got shot, and so did Chill, but all ready Jokers kill count with guns seem a lot higher then BB and we know so little about it.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

i love it. every time i worry about TDK being too "light", i think back to Nolan (or maybe it was Goyer?) saying, when talking about the synopsis of the movie, something along the lines of "things have to get worse before they can get better".

 

[Why Are You Crouching Spock?]

I think alot of the blood and gore has to do with the way it's executed.

 

[Batgort]

Honestly, let's not worry about the children. Censorship relies on the parents. This isn't the 1920s when there were like 3 radio stations, and 2 newspapers. This isn't even the 1950s, when there were 10 radio stations, and 5 tv stations. This is the 21st century - just about everyone has access to cable television. Even if you buy the basic package, you're still getting like 30-60 channels. Most people have the 150 package, while others have 200-300 channels. Radio has expanded to the satellites with now thousands of possible channels, let alone the internet radio and everything else on the internet.

I saw someone bring a 5 year old to "Good luck Chuck" for Dane Cook's humping fest, which was a nice rated R movie for adults.

If someone doesn' thave the foresight to bring their children to appropriate movies, they get what they paid for, but let's not ruin it for everyone else.

There are lots of choices for perosnal entertainment, whether it be at the movies, on TV, ont he radio, or online. It is both impossible and impractical to apply the lowest standard (kids) to every single piece of media in all those mediums.

 

[JStorm]

I refuse to allow my six-year-old Godson to watch Batman and Robin because it is too dark.

I hope TDK isn't as dark.

 

[The Dark Guybrush]

I refuse to allow my six-year-old Godson to watch Batman and Robin because it is too dark.

I hope TDK isn't as dark.

please tell me you are kidding. teol

 

[TromaFreak64]

Even though we know of very few TDK violence, lets list em out.

-Joker kills a crap load of innocent people by blowing up a Hospital.
-Shoots a bank manager in the head.
-Joker kills innocent by standers after the crash, and goes nuts on Gothamites with a machine gun
-Lots of refrences to cops wanting to kill the "Joker"
-Joker/Grumpy kills one of his own men in the bank. *mos tlikley*
-Joker does rip his own man out of the semi and throws him out *set report*
-People hang an effigey of Batman outside town hall.
-Loeb is killed, most likley by the Joker
-Harvey is scared horribley
-A fat guy blows up with a bomb in his stomach

And didn't Nolan say its called The Dark Knight for a reason, that things are going to get much worse before they get better?

Oh not to mention the teaser poster has the Joker crushing an animal Bat with his hands, with blood driping down.

So though yes TDK aint going to be Saw, but it will be darker in context more so then BB.I see what your saying, but the villians in BB were more so using Gas, and making people go nuts with the fear toxin. Dawes boss got shot, and so did Chill, but all ready Jokers kill count with guns seem a lot higher then BB and we know so little about it.

While most of your violence speculation is SPOT on... some is a little "questionable" - we don't know Joker kills one of his henchmen in the bank robbery, but you missed several as well:

-A henchman is shot twice in the knees by a cop to get information
-5 swat members are tied together and tossed off a building
-A cop beaten and his outfit stolen
-The Fireing on the the mayor

Other possible violent scenes:
-Swat members shooting hostages who are forced to wear Clown masks

And the effigey is still a big debate, people on the set said it was one of the fake batmen just like the pictures indicate who had been killed and hung so that he hit the window just as Harvey in the interior said 6 Months Crime free... And Gordon investigates the body and finds its true idenity.. of course that came from people there at filming -- our conflicting information came from the call sheets saying it was an effigey...

 

[Naite22]

Let's PREY that TDK is darker than BB, it SHOULD be! I really hope that Heath's Joker is pure evil!!!

I can't ****ing wait to see the first footage from this film, ANY footage!!! It's my top must-see movie for 2008, closely followed by Indy 4.