Will Venom look cool or not cool, or fake, but cool?

[The Joker]

the movies are based on Spider-Man comics. period. Raimi doesn't seem to be making the statement "we're only using 616 continuity," or "just the stuff from Amazing." he's creating his own universe, that's why you have no Gwen, no mechanic webshooters, blah blah blah.

Well now let's see:

Were Peter and MJ 15 years old???? No
Did Norman Osborn mutate into a big huge Goblin monster??? No
Did Ock have scarred eyes,was sensitive to light and wear his tentacles in the front of him??? No
Was Uncle Ben a hippy guy with a pony tail??? No

Sam Raimi doesn't have to make a public statement saying he's using the 616 comics as his source.It is blatantly obvious.

what would be so horrible about an Ultimized villain? at this point, Ultimate Venom seems like a far superior choice over 616 Venom.

Who said it was horrible to use an Ultimate villain?? I merely pointed out the obvious.These movies are not based on the Ultimate comics.Therefore Ultimate style characters are not gonna happen.

I've seen homages to the 616 comics in the movies.Can you show me some from USM??? Nope.

And before you jump in and say GG taking MJ to the bridge is based from USM then save it.That story came out 4 months after SM-1 was released.Bendis ripped it off the movie.

 

[Gamma Burst]

With the technology the Sony crew have in their hands,Venom(if he´s in the movie) is gonna look damn cool!

 

[el brujo138]

I agree with Doc Ock, besides isnt Sam Rami a well known fan of classic Spider-Man? There is nothing from Ultimate Spider-Man in the movies so Topher playing Eddie Brock would make no sense what so ever considering the physicall diffrence between them.

 

[venomous]

To tell you the truth, Ultimate venom doesn't look far off from 616 at all (even though it's really peter not eddie). Technically he could use Ultimate.

 

[el brujo138]

Yeah Venom looks the same in Ultimate but Eddie does not besides Raimi is not using Ultimate as sourcematerial like Doc Ock proved in his post.

 

[Jason Martell]

To tell you the truth, Ultimate venom doesn't look far off from 616 at all (even though it's really peter not eddie). Technically he could use Ultimate.

that's how venom should look, but when the tongue is in his mouth I think his teeth should grow longer, and then retract again when his tongue is sticking out. I shouldn't say retract. I should say grown and shrink. It would be easy to make that look cool, because of the way Venom's skin should crawl and look liquidy. I actually haven't read practically anything Ultimate, but that scene there is pretty cool. Maybe in the movie they should have Spider-Man look like he normally did wearing the black suit, bu then after it starts to take over this happens(except it's not the guy that killed his uncle), and that's what finally convinces Peter it's time for the symbiote to go.

 

[Joseph_Freefall]

Well now let's see:

Were Peter and MJ 15 years old???? No
Did Norman Osborn mutate into a big huge Goblin monster??? No
Did Ock have scarred eyes,was sensitive to light and wear his tentacles in the front of him??? No
Was Uncle Ben a hippy guy with a pony tail??? No

Sam Raimi doesn't have to make a public statement saying he's using the 616 comics as his source.It is blatantly obvious.



Who said it was horrible to use an Ultimate villain?? I merely pointed out the obvious.These movies are not based on the Ultimate comics.Therefore Ultimate style characters are not gonna happen.

I've seen homages to the 616 comics in the movies.Can you show me some from USM??? Nope.

And before you jump in and say GG taking MJ to the bridge is based from USM then save it.That story came out 4 months after SM-1 was released.Bendis ripped it off the movie.

And who's to say Raimi doesn't start basing some of it off the Ultimate universe with SM3?

 

[Fathermithras]

Well now let's see:

Were Peter and MJ 15 years old???? No
Did Norman Osborn mutate into a big huge Goblin monster??? No
Did Ock have scarred eyes,was sensitive to light and wear his tentacles in the front of him??? No
Was Uncle Ben a hippy guy with a pony tail??? No

Sam Raimi doesn't have to make a public statement saying he's using the 616 comics as his source.It is blatantly obvious.

Quote:
what would be so horrible about an Ultimized villain? at this point, Ultimate Venom seems like a far superior choice over 616 Venom.


Who said it was horrible to use an Ultimate villain?? I merely pointed out the obvious.These movies are not based on the Ultimate comics.Therefore Ultimate style characters are not gonna happen.

I've seen homages to the 616 comics in the movies.Can you show me some from USM??? Nope.

And before you jump in and say GG taking MJ to the bridge is based from USM then save it.That story came out 4 months after SM-1 was released.Bendis ripped it off the movie.
Yes, because he didn't say "He may base some of it off the ulitmate comics" He clearly said "Of course! The entire movies are based on them!!!"

The argument against the ultimate aspects is ridiculous, since almost nothing int the movies are a direct or even near direct take from the 616 comics. He was bit by a mutant spider, Uncle Ben was shot in a car jacking, Pete loved MJ from the time he was a kid, No webshooters, Pete's clinging powers work different, Aunt May loves him, No Gwen, Betty, etc. Doc Ock was frekaing controlled by evil sentient tentacles for mithras' sake!

See the point? He's using the basics of spidey and doing something completely and utterly different. He is in no way bound to the 616 universe. Saying so is ridiculous and unsupported by the facts. Raimi can borrow from anything he wants, and nothing is stopping him from using an ultimate concept (Like FF did) to make an easier time of introducing Venom. 616 venom would be fudged totally if put in the movie, especially with Topher Grace playing him. NOT undoable, but a large part of the character would be missing. Ultimate is the most popular spidey line, and since (As stated) he's not bound by 616 or any other continuity, he can use whatever he wants.

I am not stating he will obviously use Ultimate Venom. I doubt he will to be perfectly honest. But to make the statement that he will NOT because the movies are based on the 616 shows clear ignorance of the facts. The movie is utterly, completely different from 616. It is different from ultimate as well. But nothing stops him from using material from either of them, or creating his own.

And about the "Was GG a giant monster!?"... Was he in a mechanical armor in the comic? No. Did he die in their first few encounters? No. Useless argument.

 

[The Joker]

And who's to say Raimi doesn't start basing some of it off the Ultimate universe with SM3?

After two movies of not using them I think it's safe to say he's not.Why would he??? He's a self professed 616 fan.

He has over 40 years of material there,as opposed to 5 years of Bendis' stuff based off the 616 comics.

Yeah I'll put my money on no Ultimate stuff in SM-3,just like the other two

 

[The Joker]

Yes, because he didn't say "He may base some of it off the ulitmate comics" He clearly said "Of course! The entire movies are based on them!!!"

The argument against the ultimate aspects is ridiculous, since almost nothing int the movies are a direct or even near direct take from the 616 comics. He was bit by a mutant spider, Uncle Ben was shot in a car jacking, Pete loved MJ from the time he was a kid, No webshooters, Pete's clinging powers work different, Aunt May loves him, No Gwen, Betty, etc. Doc Ock was frekaing controlled by evil sentient tentacles for mithras' sake!

All of what you said there is not from the Ultimate comics.So you've just re-enforced my point that nothing from Ultimate has been used yet.

But we've had plenty from 616.

See the point? He's using the basics of spidey and doing something completely and utterly different. He is in no way bound to the 616 universe. Saying so is ridiculous and unsupported by the facts. Raimi can borrow from anything he wants, and nothing is stopping him from using an ultimate concept (Like FF did) to make an easier time of introducing Venom. 616 venom would be fudged totally if put in the movie, especially with Topher Grace playing him. NOT undoable, but a large part of the character would be missing. Ultimate is the most popular spidey line, and since (As stated) he's not bound by 616 or any other continuity, he can use whatever he wants.

Nobody says he's bound to 616.He clearly wants to stay with 616 looking at the previous two movies.

People are basing their arguements for Ultimate Venom being used on NOTHING. I'm basing my opinion on Raimi saying he is a 616 fan,and the fact nothing from USM has been used in the movies.

And I confidently think won't be used in SM-3 either.

And about the "Was GG a giant monster!?"... Was he in a mechanical armor in the comic? No. Did he die in their first few encounters? No. Useless argument.

No that is a useless arguement.

Do you really think the purple cap and elf shoes with green spandex would have looked good on screen???

Of course not.Green Goblin needed a revamp in costume.

 

[Fathermithras]

You misinterpreted my comments. You stated he would not use anything from Ultimate based on the fact he based his material on 616 and I showed how almost nothing is take canon-wise from 616. It's all his own interpretation bjased on elements fans are familiar with. I did not state he would use USM, or even that he's likely to. I only stated it is a possibility, based on the fact that Ultimate Venom's Eddie Brock is more akin to Grace. I do not see why he would have picked someone so blatantly UN-616 if he intended to go with the mainstream universe version.

All of what you said there is not from the Ultimate comics.So you've just re-enforced my point that nothing from Ultimate has been used yet.

What I was trying to do was show you very little is taken from the 616.

Nobody says he's bound to 616.He clearly wants to stay with 616 looking at the previous two movies.

From my earlier comments about the extreme variance from 616, he clearly does not.

People are basing their arguements for Ultimate Venom being used on NOTHING.

Then you're not paying attention. they base it off the factthe actor who is supposed to be playing him looks nothing like the 616 version of the character, yet is remarkably simiar to the Ultimate. This is obviously not a conclusive argument, or even an extremely compeeling one, but it is far from nothing.

No that is a useless arguement.

Do you really thing the purple cap and elf shoes with green spandex would have looked good on screen???

Your opinion does not in any way, shape or from constitute fact. The general reaction from the movie was that they DID want a version of the Goblin wearing a costume suit, with perhaps a few minor updates (For example, using methods akin to the Spidey suit, which is of course not simply spandex).

Once again, not saying they will use Ultimate version. Merely that stating that he absolutely will not is based on unsound arguments. He can at anytime choose to use any idea he's presented with (especially since USM is Spidey's best selling title). Fantastic Four used this method for the Doc Doom character, making an easier introduction of a villiam for a wildly successful (Though disappointing for me) film. So it has been done in Marvel films before.

Claiming he won't use anything other then 616 because he clearly keeps to 616 is not based on the facts. Saying he will definately used Ultimate is mere speculation, with only a small argument for it. This does not make it impossible, nor does it make it likely.

 

[The Joker]

You misinterpreted my comments. You stated he would not use anything from Ultimate based on the fact he based his material on 616 and I showed how almost nothing is take canon-wise from 616. It's all his own interpretation bjased on elements fans are familiar with. I did not state he would use USM, or even that he's likely to. I only stated it is a possibility, based on the fact that Ultimate Venom's Eddie Brock is more akin to Grace. I do not see why he would have picked someone so blatantly UN-616 if he intended to go with the mainstream universe version.

Oh believe me I know Raimi is not 100% faithful to the comics.Far from it.Most of his changes I do not approve of at all.

But my point is his changes were not from Ultimate.So when Raimi does change something he seems to change in a way he sees it.His own vision.

Then you're not paying attention. they base it off the factthe actor who is supposed to be playing him looks nothing like the 616 version of the character, yet is remarkably simiar to the Ultimate. This is obviously not a conclusive argument, or even an extremely compeeling one, but it is far from nothing.

But that's just it.There is ZERO confirmation that Topher Grace is Venom thank god.Not to mention the fact he looks nothing like Eddie Brock.

Look at the previous villains.Would you say Molina and Dafoe look alot alike the villains they played??? I sure would.Especially Molina.

And now look at Church.Like Molina he is practically identical to his villainous comic counterpart.

So why people think Raimi would choose an actor so dramatically different from Venom to play Venom really is beyond me.Wishful thinking most likely.

Your opinion does not in any way, shape or from constitute fact. The general reaction from the movie was that they DID want a version of the Goblin wearing a costume suit, with perhaps a few minor updates (For example, using methods akin to the Spidey suit, which is of course not simply spandex).

Claiming he won't use anything other then 616 because he clearly keeps to 616 is not based on the facts. Saying he will definately used Ultimate is mere speculation, with only a small argument for it. This does not make it impossible, nor does it make it likely.

I never said it was fact.I said I was confident he wouldn't.After one movie I wouldn't be as confident.But after two movies,plus reading and seeing several interviews with Raimi,I am positive he is 100% 616 fan.

Like I said I'm basing my opinion on what we know.Raimi seems to be a creature of habit with his movies.He sticks to a certain type of formula.

 

[Fathermithras]

Oh believe me I know Raimi is not 100% faithful to the comics.Far from it.Most of his changes I do not approve of at all.

But my point is his changes were not from Ultimate.So when Raimi does change something he seems to change in a way he sees it.His own vision.

Agreed on both accounts. the changes have been pretty freaking stupid haven't they?

But that's just it.There is ZERO confirmation that Topher Grace is Venom thank god.Not to mention the fact he looks nothing like Eddie Brock.

Look at the previous villains.Would you say Molina and Dafoe look alot alike the villains they played??? I sure would.Especially Molina.

And now look at Church.Like Molina he is practically identical to his villainous comic counterpart.

Not zero confirmation. It simply was not official confirmation. It WAS however, confirmation from a source who has spilled the beans before (The liz error was not an error. Liz was taken out AFTER she spilled it. She confirmed Ock, and Sandman thus far. Not 100 percent, but good.).

However, you make a good point! so far, the actors have looked like who they are supposed to play. This brings up a statement of yours that supports Ultimate Venom (If indeed the reports of him being in the movie, are true)

So why people think Raimi would choose an actor so dramatically different from Venom to play Venom really is beyond me.

We have unofficial reports from a reliable source Topher is Venom. Topher does not look like 616 Brock. HOWEVER, he looks very much like Ultimate Brock. So far every character has looked like their comic counterpart. Thus if he continues this kind of casting, this appears to be evidence (Not conclusive of course, but evidence) that he will be using Ultimate Brock.

You state most of the actors look like their character. If Topher is Venom (which we have from a source who so far has only been wrong on villians when they took one out after her confrimation) he LOOKS like Ultimate Venom. That would conform to Raimi's previous casting.

I never said it was fact.I said I was confident he wouldn't.After one movie I wouldn't be as confident.But after two movies,plus reading and seeing several interviews with Raimi,I am positive he is 100% 616 fan.

Like I said I'm basing my opinion on what we know.Raimi seems to be a creature of habit with his movies.He sticks to a certain type of formula.

during the first movie ultimate was barely in existence, so of course he didn't use any. The Second movie does not conform in any way to the 616 Doc Ock, nothing at all except that an accident made him have the tentacles, and even then they made him evil in a different way entirely.

He is a creature of habit, but so far 616 is not his habit. BUT, his habit IS to hire actors that resemble the parts they're playing, which COULD lead us to believe he may use an Ultimate (or semi-ultimate) Brock.

I'm not trying to convince you he WILL. I'm trying to get you to understand that it's not totally implausible. There IS an argument for it that is reasonable. Doesn't mean he will, but arguing the point isn't merely wishful thinking.

 

[CHEZ]

Each Spider-Man film release makes less profit,(by a small margin, but nonetheless) and each one must be an improvement over the last, meaning each one will cost more to produce than the last. It's like a being stuck between a rock and a hard place, because with less profit, will come less investment. With less investment the value decreases.
It seems likely that Venom would be "unable" to receive the sfx caliber it needs to be successful.
So my guess, and not to be unfair, is that the fx will likely flop, because Venom would be extremely costly to produce.
Unless they change Venom for his big screen appearance, thus cheapening the character.
But hey, you get a "Venom" that slightly resembles the Venom from the comics.

 

[Fathermithras]

I think if Venom is used they need to go with a mix of puppetry and cgi. CGI is nice, but puppetry (when done well) looks so much better and more real. CGI almost always has this fakeness to it.

 

[The Joker]

Agreed on both accounts. the changes have been pretty freaking stupid haven't they?

Very stupid.The ones that irritate me the most are the changes to Ock's character,how it's all about a girl,Green Goblin's plan,if you can call it that,was very weak for such an awesome villain,and the character of MJ is written terribly.

I'm not trying to convince you he WILL. I'm trying to get you to understand that it's not totally implausible. There IS an argument for it that is reasonable. Doesn't mean he will, but arguing the point isn't merely wishful thinking.

Oh I know there's an arguement.I just think it's an incredibally weak one

Like someone saying that there is a chance Madame Webb will be in this one guiding Spider-Man.

Is there a chance of that?? Yes.

Is it a big chance??? Hell no.

If you ask me Topher is playing Electro.Not my first choice for the role,but with a little stretch of the imagination I can see him as Electro.

Nothing,no matter how hard I try,can make me see Topher as Eddie Brock.The Ultimate version doesn't even come into the equation with me.And I suspect the same with Raimi too.

 

[Fathermithras]

Cool. Madame web example though, isn't a good comparison, but I see what you're trying to sat.

Why do you think he's playing elctro by the way? I think he'd be a good one, but that rumor has no evidence at all, as opposed to the Venom one. The reason I'd say UltVenom is because I too cannot see any way in hell that Topher could be Brock from 616!

On a side note it's nice to see people actually respecting one another instead of engaging in a "Ur stewpid" "No, U R Fahg." face off of bull****ting.

 

[The Joker]

Cool. Madame web example though, isn't a good comparison, but I see what you're trying to sat.

Well I used Madame Webb as an example because I think an inter-dimensional granny has the same chance as Ultimate Eddie being in SM-3

Why do you think he's playing elctro by the way? I think he'd be a good one, but that rumor has no evidence at all, as opposed to the Venom one. The reason I'd say UltVenom is because I too cannot see any way in hell that Topher could be Brock from 616!

Well three reasons really.

1.Topher Grace if he is playing a villain,looks like Electro more than any other of the remaining big time villains that have yet to make it to the movies.And like I said,Raimi hires actors who look like the villains.That's one thing I can't fault him with.

2.AICN,who have been saying from the get go since Church was 1st cast,that their sources were reporting Sandman.Also back in the SM-2 days they reported several scoops which were true,including a description of footage of the cafe scene in SM-2 before the trailer even came out.And they say their sources are certain Grace is playing Electro.

3.Electro is a classic.Right from Stan Lee's day.Like GG,Ock and Sandman.Raimi loves the classics big time.He grew up with them.And Venom is no classic.

On a side note it's nice to see people actually respecting one another instead of engaging in a "Ur stewpid" "No, U R Fahg." face off of bull****ting.

Yes it's a nice change.

Visit the Sandman revealed thread at the top of the forum.

Plenty of that crap was going on in there

 

[Rez]

Everyone else has already said anything I would have better.... I am of the belief that it is certainly Grace as Venom.

 

[Fathermithras]

Well I used Madame Webb as an example because I think an inter-dimensional granny has the same chance as Ultimate Eddie being in SM-3

That's fine, though Venom is all but officially confirmer so i think your opinion is a bit odd, though i respect it.

1.Topher Grace if he is playing a villain,looks like Electro more than any other of the remaining big time villains that have yet to make it to the movies.And like I said,Raimi hires actors who look like the villains.That's one thing I can't fault him with.

I could agree if Venom wasn't all but officiallt confirmed. Besides, he looks like Molten man, Ned Leeds, and a few other blonde villians as well.

2.AICN,who have been saying from the get go since Church was 1st cast,that their sources were reporting Sandman.Also back in the SM-2 days they reported several scoops which were true,including a description of footage of the cafe scene in SM-2 before the trailer even came out.And they say their sources are certain Grace is playing Electro.

Interesting note! I think Dunst is a very reliable source but if there's a better one I'd be willing to alter my opinion on the matter. AICN has an article though, that makes it sound like they're unsure who he'll play.

3.Electro is a classic.Right from Stan Lee's day.Like GG,Ock and Sandman.Raimi loves the classics big time.He grew up with them.And Venom is no classic.

True! But he's not poular at all. If he were the main villian, it'd be a bit reminiscent of Doc Doom too, but I'd like it.

Interesting...

 

[Kritish]

I want him to be frikin scary, the kind of thing that gives 7 year olds nightmares .

 

[Jason Martell]

Each Spider-Man film release makes less profit,(by a small margin, but nonetheless) and each one must be an improvement over the last, meaning each one will cost more to produce than the last. It's like a being stuck between a rock and a hard place, because with less profit, will come less investment. With less investment the value decreases.
It seems likely that Venom would be "unable" to receive the sfx caliber it needs to be successful.
So my guess, and not to be unfair, is that the fx will likely flop, because Venom would be extremely costly to produce.
Unless they change Venom for his big screen appearance, thus cheapening the character.
But hey, you get a "Venom" that slightly resembles the Venom from the comics.

that's what I am terrified of. LIterally terrified of. but I honestly believe that if Venom is in the movie and preview, and he looks as good as possible, and the movie is the best spidey movie yet, and it doesn't have too much competition in the week before it's released and the next two weeks after that, and it's promoted properly it will be the biggest movie of all time! The reason I say that is because if you get a huge first two weeks, you will get enourmous positivie word of mouth advertising. Combine that with an awesome looking Venom in the previews and everybody and their mother will want to see this movie. And Venom can help bring that huge opening two weeks. So it all rests now, on how good Venom looks, competition, and how good the movie is. Because competition and Venom quality will decide the opening two weeks. Opening two weeks will result in the best word of mouth advertising which will decide whether it's the biggest movie of all time. NO other companies will risk a big budget movie to compete with Spidey 3, so the time slot is secured. I'm sure Sony realized this. So it all comes down to how much money are they willing to risk that money?

Anybody know the budget for this movie? Remember guys they have been working on these effects for like a year and a half now. and Ock looked perfect.

 

[spider-neil]

in ultimate eddie is skinny he puts the suit on and becomes huge.

look at what the muscle suit did for ron pearlman(sp) in hellboy, that was an incredible transformation.

I think it is totally possible for topher to look large

 

[spider-neil]

that's what I am terrified of. LIterally terrified of. but I honestly believe that if Venom is in the movie and preview, and he looks as good as possible, and the movie is the best spidey movie yet, and it doesn't have too much competition in the week before it's released and the next two weeks after that, and it's promoted properly it will be the biggest movie of all time! The reason I say that is because if you get a huge first two weeks, you will get enourmous positivie word of mouth advertising. Combine that with an awesome looking Venom in the previews and everybody and their mother will want to see this movie. And Venom can help bring that huge opening two weeks. So it all rests now, on how good Venom looks, competition, and how good the movie is. Because competition and Venom quality will decide the opening two weeks. Opening two weeks will result in the best word of mouth advertising which will decide whether it's the biggest movie of all time. NO other companies will risk a big budget movie to compete with Spidey 3, so the time slot is secured. I'm sure Sony realized this. So it all comes down to how much money are they willing to risk that money?

Anybody know the budget for this movie? Remember guys they have been working on these effects for like a year and a half now. and Ock looked perfect.

the effects for venom and sandman will be awesome
sure with every movie that comes out the profit margin shrinks but remember the effects house (sony pictures imageworks) already have the data for spider-man (a HUGE outlay in spider-man 1) so they can concentrate on oil/liquid effects for venom and mud/dust effects for sandman.
also the make up department will take off some of the load for visual effects.

 

[Cinemaman]

I think they will do some mix of Ultimate Venom and classic.
I don't think that Sam will use Electro in SM3.
CGI have a new technology of visual effects, and they will make great and real Venom.