Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - Part 4

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]354615[/split]

 

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This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]350085[/split]

 

[TheComicbookKid]

So you would make all the Amazons immortal? Then she appears in the outside world, disappears for 50 years, then reappears. How do you manage all that?

I just don't see why it's relevant to set Wonder Woman during WW2, whereas Captain America has to be set in WW2.

No. I specifically put in that we see Amazons of all ages. Amazons age like Tina Turner.

The WWII setting in my script idea is an accident that gives her, her first exposure to the outside. We get the idea of how far she will go for her beliefs in a wartime setting
or not. No man versus woman
stuff.




@JMC I don't think people will tie it to Cap if it's not the entire movie
and she doesn't have to fight Nazis. I mean occult hungry servant to Hitler could describe the guy from Hellboy.

 

[Mad Love]

No. I specifically put in that we see Amazons of all ages. Amazons age like Tina Turner.

The WWII setting in my script idea is an accident that gives her, her first exposure to the outside. We get the idea of how far she will go for her beliefs in a wartime setting
or not. No man versus woman stuff.

I don't know why people shy away from the man vs. woman stuff. I think that's integral to what WW is about. She was created because of gender equality.

 

[Mad Love]

Bridget Regan version

Please do not alter without permission.

 

[Liam_H]

Bridget Regan...my ideal WW but sadly she'll never get the chance. At least there's LOTS to watch her WW skills but not the same.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

I don't know why people shy away from the man vs. woman stuff. I think that's integral to what WW is about. She was created because of gender equality.

The point was made that the only reason for WWII was to discuss gender and I don't agree.

Why is the versus aspect the only way people want to discuss gender relationships? We a fantasy world/character and the most interesting thing people come up with is Ares,man,war...etc. Give me something interesting I won't get watching Lifetime and we'll talk.

 

[Mad Love]

Why is the versus aspect the only way people want to discuss gender relationships? We a fantasy world/character and the most interesting thing people come up with is Ares,man,war...etc. Give me something interesting I won't get watching Lifetime and we'll talk.

It's not man vs. woman in a literal sense. It's about sexism.

And, it's the most interesting thing because it's the reason behind the character. Just like Batman Begins centered around fear and urban crime, while Iron Man was about the military–industrial complex.

Treating her as any other fantasy character with an action-adventure movie just doesn't cut it. It may not be interesting to you, but it is for many people including women.

Give me something interesting I won't get watching Lifetime and we'll talk.

I wonder what WW would say about that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

It's not man vs. woman in a literal sense. It's about sexism.

And, it's the most interesting thing because it's the reason behind the character. Just like Batman Begins centered around fear and urban crime, while Iron Man was about the military–industrial complex.

Treating her as any other fantasy character with an action-adventure movie just doesn't cut it. It may not be interesting to you, but it is for many people including women.



I wonder what WW would say about that.

Considering she is a character about gender relationships,broadening the subject to maybe transgender people would be applauded by her hopefully. What do you think?

I didn't mean versus in a literal
sense either. Discussing gender
can take on all forms. Sexism isn't
the end all or beginning. You think Xmen got popular being about just blacks and whites?

 

[Mad Love]

Considering she is a character about gender relationships,broadening the subject to maybe transgender people would be applauded by her hopefully. What do you think?

Why do you keep saying gender relationships as if it means something?

Sexism applies to people of every gender, and of course discussing gender can take all forms.

Discussing gender
can take on all forms. Sexism isn't the end all or beginning.

Whatever that means. Superheroes confront problems, and sexism is a problem that no other hero can deal with as well as WW.

What gender discussion would you rather have in a WW movie?

You think Xmen got popular being about just blacks and whites?

X-Men was NOT about just blacks and whites.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Why do you keep saying gender relationships as if it means something?
Sexism applies to people of every gender, and of course discussing gender can take all forms.
Whatever that means. Superheroes confront problems, and sexism is a problem that no other hero can deal with as well as WW.

What gender discussion would you rather have in a WW movie?



X-Men was NOT about just blacks and whites.

Right it's NOT(why caps?). I said that's why it is popular. It didn't limit its scope.

Gender is broader term than sex. Sex connects to the difference as the human anatomy as relevant. Penis envy etc...

Of course Sexism affects all genders. Whatever that means.All
genders have a sex. All genders have an ethniticity too. And body hair.

The point I'm making is how you discuss it. Put Wondy in WWII fighting with black fighter pilots and compare that to the discrimination of not letting women fight on the frontlines today.

That's more interesting than "I stand in judgement of your
stupidity cause your secretary
flirts in high skirts " like the
animated movie did with Etta.

I wouldn't do anything I just said. But that's using a fantasy character to explore complex issues to me.

 

[Mad Love]

Right it's NOT(why caps?). I said that's why it is popular. It didn't limit its scope.

That's not why X-Men is popular. X-Men isn't even about blacks and whites. It was about being different and being alienated by society. NOT specifically about racism, or even more specific, not about blacks and whites.

Gender is broader term than sex. Sex connects to the difference as the human anatomy as relevant. Penis envy etc...

Gender is not a broader term for sex. It's actually a more specific word. Penis envy? WTF.

Of course Sexism affects all genders. Whatever that means.All genders have a sex. All genders have an ethniticity too. And body hair.

I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but you still don't get it. People of any gender can be sexist. That's the point.

The point I'm making is how you discuss it. Put Wondy in WWII fighting with black fighter pilots and compare that to the discrimination of not letting women fight on the frontlines today. That's more interesting than "I stand in judgement of your stupidity cause your secretary flirts in high skirts like the animated movie."

Why do you even have to bring in racism to talk about sexism? That makes no sense. It's not interesting at all. You don't seem to understand sexism at all. It sounds like you want to make WW about blacks more than about being a woman. LOL

 

[TheComicbookKid]

That's not why X-Men is popular. X-Men isn't even about blacks and whites. It was about being different and being alienated by society. NOT specifically about racism, or even more specific, not about blacks and whites.



Gender is not a broader term for sex. It's actually a more specific word. Penis envy? WTF.



I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but you still don't get it. People of any gender can be sexist. That's the point.



Why do you even have to bring in racism to talk about sexism? That makes no sense. It's not interesting at all. You don't seem to understand sexism at all. It sounds like you want to make WW about blacks more than about being a woman. LOL

First. Please point to where I said anything about racism?

You basically just proved my point. Just because I mentioned blacks and discrimination you immediately assumed I use racism to make the argument.

Again. I know why Xmen is popular. Acceptance for outcast. A nerd is an outcast. "MUTANT AND PROUD" can mean something to everyone from gays to blacks.

 

[Mad Love]

First. Please point to where I said anything about racism?

Put Wondy in WWII fighting with black fighter pilots and compare that to the discrimination of not letting women fight on the frontlines today.

THERE! You compare racism to sexism. Whatever, I'm done. Write Wonder Woman however you want.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

THERE! You compare racism to sexism. Whatever, I'm done. Write Wonder Woman however you want.

I'm sorry you feel that way to end the convo but in case you read this discrimination does not equal racism. I chose my words very carefully for that reason. An apple is a fruit but a fruit isn't an apple.

 

[Mad Love]

If only you chose your meanings carefully. If someone discriminates because of race, that's racism, and it's exactly what you're talking about in your example with WW2 black pilots.

No one said discrimination equals racism, but you keep bringing up things that no one even mentions. And, you keep backtracking and changing what you mean.

Put Wondy in WWII fighting with black fighter pilots and compare that to the discrimination of not letting women fight on the frontlines today.

The black fighter pilots were discriminated because of their race. That's racism. Not letting women fight on the frontlines is discrimination on gender. That's sexism. You're comparing to racism to sexism.

First. Please point to where I said anything about racism?

It's obvious.

I'm sorry you feel that way to end the convo but in case you read this discrimination does not equal racism.

No one said discrimination equals racism all the time, but in the situation you mentioned that I was referring to, it was racism.

This is all pointless because you're basing things on what you consider interesting, which was your original complaint, instead of trying to convey the real meaning behind the character.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

If only you chose your meanings carefully. If someone discriminates because of race, that's racism, and it's exactly what you're talking about in your example with WW2 black pilots.

No one said discrimination equals racism, but you keep bringing up things that no one even mentions. And, you keep backtracking and changing what you mean.



The black fighter pilots were discriminated because of their race. That's racism. Not letting women fight on the frontlines is discrimination on gender. That's sexism. You're comparing to racism to sexism.



It's obvious.



No one said discrimination equals racism all the time, but in the situation you mentioned that I was referring to, it was racism.

This is all pointless because you're basing things on what you consider interesting, which was your original complaint, instead of trying to convey the real meaning behind the character.

Let's get a few things straight. My original point had nothing to do with what interest me. I was refuting a point that WWII was a good setting only for sexism talk. I was talking about Nazis.

I specifically said I wouldn't do any of tbis so how do you think I find this interesting? I simply answered why I think people don't use man vs woman.

I'm not backtracking. You're right that racism is the core of the discrimination. The problem is my point was to talk about women today. Not racism. Doubting someone's abilities when they want to serve their country.in two seperate eras(which echoes disability prejudices ). Not a discussion on race and sex.

That's why I talked about Xmen. They can echo Malcolm and King but it's not about that.

 

[Mad Love]

Yeah, I really can't discuss with you further. Too much backtracking and dishonest semantics.

Sexism has a lot to do with Wonder Woman's history. There's no denying it.

Good luck using black fighter pilots in WW2 to communicate that.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Yeah, I really can't discuss with you further. Too much backtracking and dishonest semantics.

Sexism has a lot to do with Wonder Woman's history. There's no denying it.

Good luck using black fighter pilots in WW2 to communicate that.

Have a good night.

I never denied WW having sexism. I wanted to broaden the scope. Not deny it.

 

[jmc]

It's not much of a scope if you're fixated on the man vs woman thing, yes it's part of WW's history but I'd argue it's not nearly as integral or the only option that should be use for the backbone of the story. And frankly, I don't want to be sitting through a 2 hour lecture of how much of a bastard I am, that's exactly how you're going to turn off the male audience.

 

[Mad Love]

I'm not saying to be fixated on it. It should be one of the main themes, which has always been prevalent in numerous WW stories including her animated movie. It's in keeping with the imperative behind Wonder Woman. It's in her most defining comics.

And it's nothing like a 2 hour lecture about how men are bad or how women are better. That's exactly the kind of thinking that needs to be dealt with. WW should be about dispelling sexist ideologies in the same way that Batman went against Joker's belief that "civilized people will eat eachother". I doubt people will take it too personally unless they actually believe in the same sexist ideas. In that case, it's good a movie can make them be a little introspective about it.

Treating Wonder Woman with justice involves recognizing her as feminist icon.

 

[jmc]

I don't agree that it should be one of the main themes purely because by today's standards it's a lame foundation to work with. It may be part of WW's history but it's a crutch of a plot device and to be perfectly honest it's lazy. The animated movie handled it alright, there was a tiny bit of the man vs woman thing but it wasn't really the main focus, or even a main subplot. I maintain a first up WW film has to be about Diana's journey in the same way that Batman Begins was about Bruce's journey.

 

[Mad Love]

Saying it's a lame foundation or lazy is a subjective judgment. It's still an issue that is popularly discussed with great interest. I don't know how you can call sexism a crutch or plot device to her story and history, when it was the main reason behind her existence. If anything should be called a crutch, it would be her ties to Greek mythology that was added and later developed.

Batman Begins was about Bruce's journey using the theme of overcoming fear.

A Wonder Woman movie could be about Diana's journey using the theme of combating sexist ideology.

Whether it's lame or lazy amounts to its execution, not the topic itself.

Animated movies are light on their narratives. That doesn't work for live-action movies that need to be about something. Tackling sexism would make WW a unique superhero movie which is what originally made her unique as a character.

 

[TheComicbookKid]

Saying it's a lame foundation or lazy is a subjective judgment. It's still an issue that is popularly discussed with great interest. I don't know how you can call sexism a crutch or plot device to her story and history, when it was the main reason behind her existence. If anything should be called a crutch, it would be her ties to Greek mythology that was added and later developed.

Batman Begins was about Bruce's journey using the theme of overcoming fear.

A Wonder Woman movie could be about Diana's journey using the theme of combating sexist ideology.

Whether it's lame or lazy amounts to its execution, not the topic itself.

Animated movies are light on their narratives. That doesn't work for live-action movies that need to be about something. Tackling sexism would make WW a unique superhero movie which is what originally made her unique as a character.

Except fear is a universal concept. Our fears may become more complex but how we react is the same from age 8 to 80. So either the nardative about sexism is complex as the subject which will go over the younger viewers head or dumb it down like the animated movie and seem silly.

 

[jmc]

Saying it's a lame foundation or lazy is a subjective judgment. It's still an issue that is popularly discussed with great interest. I don't know how you can call sexism a crutch or plot device to her story and history, when it was the main reason behind her existence. If anything should be called a crutch, it would be her ties to Greek mythology that was added and later developed.

Batman Begins was about Bruce's journey using the theme of overcoming fear.

A Wonder Woman movie could be about Diana's journey using the theme of combating sexist ideology.

Whether it's lame or lazy amounts to its execution, not the topic itself.

Animated movies are light on their narratives. That doesn't work for live-action movies that need to be about something. Tackling sexism would make WW a unique superhero movie which is what originally made her unique as a character.

Yes it is lazy. It's the fall back plot device regardless of the execution simply because she's a female superhero. Man vs Woman, woman comes out on top and shows she can match it with the boys. Yawn. Sorry, it's not a topic that most people are going to want to sit through in a superhero film, especially guys who make up the majority of the audience. Come up with something other than a gender battle then come back to me.