Wonder Woman Thread Reborn! - - - - - - - Part 16

[roach]

As I have said before...the Trinity reflect aspects of superhero origins.
Superman is science.
Batman is human.
Wonder Woman is magic.

 

[teagone]

Essentially, the FEMALE superhero needs to have her origin combined with the MALE superhero in order to have her POWERS and to FIT in the DCCU.

Exactly. This is the bigger issue.

 

[Lily Adler]

You mean I got it RIGHT! YAYZEES!

 

[Matt.S99]

That's a load of bull ****.

I doubt die hard fans are ok with making her Kryptonian.

I actually saw a few people in the other thread saying something like "I'm not a huge fan so I don't mind the change". Which I understand. Not a character you totally care for so the change wouldn't bother you much.

And I have yet to see someone post a way on how making her kryptonian can work well.

Why can't GL be Kryptonian too, then?

 

[jmc]

And I'm not making up sexist crap. It's right there, above the surface with this crap rumor/idea. It's not even in the damn subtext, and it's so hilariously obvious that I can't believe some Wonder Woman "fans" are advocating this potential change as something positive.

Mate, you have issues with the concept only because you're thinking the worst, it's a slap in the face because it's not what you want. Calling it 'unnecessary' without seeing the idea brought to life. Change doesn't equal doom and gloom. Sometimes it can be acceptable and even beneficial to a movie and character. And yes you are overplaying the sexism aspect to it, I already explained why it's complete and utter nonsense. If it makes you feel better to use that as the reason for disliking the idea then so be it, but it's a petty and overly dramatic reason IMO. The thing about 'fans' is those who are ok with this idea can separate themselves from their emotions and see how the concept can work. It was the same backlash nonsense I heard 6 years ago with The Joker wearing make-up, that not having bleached skin or an origin story was doing a disservice to the character. That turned out to be complete and utter bull **** because ultimately the core characteristics of the character were retained, which frankly is vastly more important. If there was a concept that significantly altered the character of WW then I would be against that, because you may as well just create a new character. But this concept only refers to who her people were created by, if that doesn't fundamentally change who she is and fits nicely into MoS 2 then what is that harm done? Let's be honest, there are far worst alterations you could do to her and her back story, the Amazons being seeded by Kryptonians in some way is frankly minor in the grand scheme of things.

 

[teagone]

You mean I got it RIGHT! YAYZEES!

It's basically what I've been arguing all over the web once the rumor caught wind and made headlines

 

[Lily Adler]

Well some wanted Supergirl in the MOS sequel, so-- TA DA!

 

[jmc]

Not to go all Arthur Miller, but: jmc, why do you hurt these people?

I'm not trying to hurt anyone, I'm trying to get peoples perspectives to change, to get them to step back and see it's not as bad an idea as they are making it out to be.

 

[Matt.S99]

The only explanation I've seen for it is that it would just make her inclusion easier/more seamless to come into the movie.

 

[jmc]

The only explanation I've seen for it is that it would just make her inclusion easier/more seamless to come into the movie.

Which is a good reason.

 

[Matt.S99]

It sounds incredibly lazy. I really don't see how acknowledging Mythological gods is that hard to believe in a world with a dude from an alien planet.

That's the cool thing about characters like this coming into a team. Bringing characters from different places/origins together to fight a common enemy.

 

[Lily Adler]

You can't force perspective change, you will have to let people wait and see if the execution is done well enough to let their stance weaken.

I doubt die hard fans are ok with making her Kryptonian.

I actually saw a few people in the other thread saying something like "I'm not a huge fan so I don't mind the change". Which I understand. Not a character you totally care for so the change wouldn't bother you much.

And I have yet to see someone post a way on how making her kryptonian can work well.

Why can't GL be Kryptonian too, then?

ACTUALLY, Clark was the one who was supposed to receive the ring, GL was just in the way.

 

[Matt.S99]

Or The GL corps are evil and their rings are actually made of Kryptonite!!! Dun dun dun.


I also don't see why they need to go into her origins in this movie. Leave it to a solo movie.

 

[jmc]

It sounds incredibly lazy. I really don't see how acknowledging Mythological gods is that hard to believe in a world with a dude from an alien planet.

That's the cool thing about characters like this coming into a team. Bringing characters from different places/origins together to fight a common enemy.

Well it depends entirely on what road they want the spin off films to go. See the thing is most people are assuming they know where things are going to lead to. 6 months ago we had no idea a Man of Steel sequel would feature Batman, 2 months ago we had no idea Wonder Woman would be featured as well, we don't even know who the villain is and cameras begin rolling in a months time. We don't know what the creators have in mind or where they want these characters to go, so at this stage anything is possible.

 

[Matt.S99]

True. I respect your thinking, for sure.

I just don't like the idea. It doesn't sit well with me, personally.

 

[roach]

The only explanation I've seen for it is that it would just make her inclusion easier/more seamless to come into the movie.

We don't know the full range of this universe so people are basing things on the first movie...If Thor was the first MCU movie and they changed Iron Man into a magic armor and Hulk being a troll...would people be ok with it since it makes them work better?

I don't like this idea because it changes what makes WW unique. We have seen science superheroes...people born with powers...powers from science accidents...alien superheroes from distant planets or different universes...what we haven't seen is a superhero powered by the Gods.

No matter what WB does they will be compared to Marvel...so do things differently.

 

[teagone]

Mate, you have issues with the concept only because you're thinking the worst, it's a slap in the face because it's not what <i>you</i> want. Calling it 'unnecessary' without seeing the idea brought to life. Change doesn't equal doom and gloom. Sometimes it can be acceptable and even beneficial to a movie and character. And yes you are overplaying the sexism aspect to it, I already explained why it's complete and utter nonsense. If it makes you feel better to use that as the reason for disliking the idea then so be it, but it's a petty and overly dramatic reason IMO. The thing about 'fans' is those who are ok with this idea can separate themselves from their emotions and see how the concept can work. It was the same backlash nonsense I heard 6 years ago with The Joker wearing make-up, that not having bleached skin or an origin story was doing a disservice to the character. That turned out to be complete and utter bull **** because ultimately the core characteristics of the character were retained, which frankly is vastly more important. If there was a concept that significantly altered the <i>character</i> of WW then I would be against that, because you may as well just create a new characters. But this concept only refers to <i>who</i> her people were created by, if that doesn't fundamentally change who she is and fits nicely into MoS 2 then what is that harm done? Let's be honest, there are far worst alterations you could do to her and her back story, the Amazons being seeded by Kryptonians in some way is frankly minor in the grand scheme of things.

It doesn't matter what I want. It's not like I'm influencing this rumor's outcome in any way. I'm just making people aware of how stupid and ridiculous the idea is. It's a change so significant and atrocious that is also completely unnecessary because Man of Steel set up a universe where Wonder Woman can fit in just fine with her well established origin. There's zero need for her to be tied to Krypton in any way, shape, or form.

And sorry? When/how did you explain that the sexist idea that Wonder Woman can only work in a Superman movie if her origin/power is changed to be directly tied to Superman's (despite having a significant backlog of content to draw inspiration from) is utter nonsense? Also, this is the second time you used Nolan's iteration of Joker as a comparison when it doesn't really work in this case. As what you tried to do with Joe Chill, it doesn't matter because with The Joker it was such an insignificant change to the character's physical appearance; it's not like The Joker was some ex-special forces nut who was victim to some kind of poison that made him insane.

I had explained why any comparison to TDK is not apt, but in case you missed it, The Dark Knight had a much more rigid narrative compared to Man of Steel's sci-fi fantasy setting, i.e., a bleached skinned Joker would not be out of place in Man of Steel but would be in TDK. I made the point above that Wonder Woman's already established Greek myth inspired origin would not be out of place in the MoS universe, but I think you're ignoring parts of my posts on purpose. I don't blame you though, I can be abrasive when arguing for WW.

 

[Bullseye1]

WB do not appear to have any clear vision on where they are going. They don't have a Feige producing all of their DC characters. The fact that they announce Batman at last years SDCC and WW only recently suggests they don't really know what they want from this movie. They need to sit down and announce a clear vision just as Marvel have.

 

[roach]

WB do not appear to have any clear vision on where they are going. They don't have a Feige producing all of their DC characters. The fact that they announce Batman at last years SDCC and WW only recently suggests they don't really know what they want from this movie. They need to sit down and announce a clear vision just as Marvel have.

Just because we don't know what the plan is doesn't mean they don't have one. Studios don't reveal everything they are doing at Comic con. War machine appearing in Avengers wasn't announced until last month. Does that mean they don't have a plan?

 

[jaymes_e06]

That's a load of bull ****.

Is it though? I remember you proclaiming how you could care less about this interpretations because you were so ******** over the casting.

Just sayin.

 

[Loki882]

Hey, if were changing WW's origins to tie into Krypton, let's just do it for all of the JL members. Lets be equal opportunity about this:
-An exiled Kryptonian criminal murdered Bruce Wayne's parents.
-A Kryptonian trained Bruce as well.
-A Kryptonian founded Atlantis and Aquaman and the Atlanteans are also an off shoot of Kryptonians.
-A Kryptonian flying by caused the lightning strike that gave Flash his powers.
-An insane Kryptonian crippled Vic Stone and forced his dad to turn him into a Cyborg.
-etc.
Why should WW be the only one? Lets let everyone get in on the fun.

 

[-Nam rorriM-]

I think WB and DC are being cautious. And so they should be because its worked, and other times it hasn't. They realise what responsibilities are theirs and despite what some think, I thought MOS was a step in the right direction. Wished they'd use krypton language more though to really drive home the alien angle.

At any rate, WW origins being changed to encompass the kryptonions is not a bad idea IMO. They could make something special of that, and would create a lot of cool scenes. Perhaps Diana expecting Kal to have all the answers but unable to explain the whys. They could have Wonder Woman and the amazons as a people that have adopted many cultures ( including the Greek pantheons ) and have them as a race of people struggling with identity issues. How they get there I have no idea, but it would give WW a fantastic introduction. Costume wise I'm hoping for something less revealing as that just doesn't make sense, but I'm confident they'll do something awesome.

 

[Loki882]

No, it would reduce her to a satellite character of Superman. Everything that makes WW and the Amazons unique would be gone. They'd essentially be a subspecies of Kryptonians, which isn't fair to her character or mythology. You don't see people saying that they should do this for Batman, or GL, or Flash, etc. So why just WW? WW coming to Superman for answers is a terrible idea as it reduces her character in comparison to him even more.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I think WB and DC are being cautious. And so they should be because its worked, and other times it hasn't. They realise what responsibilities are theirs and despite what some think, I thought MOS was a step in the right direction. Wished they'd use krypton language more though to really drive home the alien angle.

At any rate, WW origins being changed to encompass the kryptonions is not a bad idea IMO. They could make something special of that, and would create a lot of cool scenes. Perhaps Diana expecting Kal to have all the answers but unable to explain the whys. They could have Wonder Woman and the amazons as a people that have adopted many cultures ( including the Greek pantheons ) and have them as a race of people struggling with identity issues. How they get there I have no idea, but it would give WW a fantastic introduction. Costume wise I'm hoping for something less revealing as that just doesn't make sense, but I'm confident they'll do something awesome.

That is the worst idea I've ever heard.

So now we go to pure phallic worship of Superman? Oh my Jesus.

 

[-Nam rorriM-]

That's ok, just putting it out there. But can I ask, would you prefer a baby made from clay ect in the MOS world? And could you please share your take on a better WW introduction?

Thanks