Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 6

[superweirdo87]

I wouldn't say no one.

Transformers still crossed over a billion and over 250m domestic with round 4 and an 18%RT.

Pretty sure Fast and The Furious would be critic proof as well. As would the next Jurassic.

But those are monsters. Even in the early aughts, X2 and X3 did not do numbers like those franchises.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Transformers and fast and furious are pretty much heavy action based, woo robots fighting, woo cars doing amazing stunts, which is something you can't say about X-Men unfortunately, even the trailer for apocalypse felt abit actionless with many thinking they were holding back for the actually movie... when no we got 90% of the action in the trailers

Of course obvious i am still quite surprised by the TMNT 2 box office, i knew it was gonna suck but i honestly didn't think it would struggle how it is since they had all the nostalgia there for the 90s kids and obviously kids of today would rush to see it with their parents, and its like no one really cared about all that stuff compared to the first one.

 

[def28]

But those are monsters. Even in the early aughts, X2 and X3 did not do numbers like those franchises.

Not saying they were, just alot of odd excuses here. X-Men itself still has never had a flat out bomb. Alot of these films can still do decent business even with crap reviews.

I really don't see how anyone can think that this cast has more pull for X-Men films then Jackman, Mckellen, Stewart, Berry and crew did. I am not saying lets make an OC film right now and that's the better route. Or that these new cast members sucked. But they never had that kind of success on their own and none of these counter arguments have proved otherwise.

This should have been the film to have X-Men back in X3 territory box office domestically.

 

[superweirdo87]

I think it TMNT2 was hurt by its predecessor. That movie did solid business but was not loved.

 

[superweirdo87]

Not saying they were, just alot of odd excuses here.

I really don't see how anyone can think that this cast has more pull for X-Men films then Jackman, Mckellen, Stewart, Berry and crew did. I am not saying lets make an OC film right now. Or that these new cast members sucked. But they never had that kind of success on their own and none of these counter arguments have proved otherwise.

I am not arguing that they did not have a stronger box office pull. I question the contention that X3 proves that their appeal is such that critics would not impact the performance of the movie. Someone else argued that critic proof movies are all but gone now and you countered with Transformers.

I think the original team would have done better, though probably not as well as DOFP. Aside from Dory, Civil War, and BvS, sequels have tended to fall off their previous installments to varying degrees.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I really don't see how anyone can think that this cast has more pull for X-Men films then Jackman, Mckellen, Stewart, Berry and crew did. I am not saying lets make an OC film right now. Or that these new cast members sucked. But they never had that kind of success on their own and none of these counter arguments have proved otherwise.

Since the OC last movie was 2006 before the MCU, before the dark knight, sitting comfortably superman returns and spider-man 3, times have changed, we seen one wolverine movie do well through the rough times of reviews and leaks and then the other dropped quite alot domestically even with 3D

Of course then there is DOFP which to say they are amazing pulls we would have to say they brought in all that box office, not the fresh to this universe sci fi concept, not the filth FC cast, not the future and past gimmick but all on the fact the OC are in the movie, use them again and box office will keep going up!

Thing about apocalypse is they kept talking about it being a mass destruction movie and there was very little of it, Singer apparently didn't want to show it which in typical bryan singer fashion made the film seem smaller and more personal and thats nothing really new to this series.

 

[def28]

I am not arguing that they did not have great pull. I question that the contention that have a draw that critics can't touch because things have changed since X3.

I think the original team would have done better, though probably not as well as DOFP. Aside from Dory, Civil War, and BvS, sequels have tended to fall off their previous installments to varying degrees.

Kind of, even with being the second lowest rated X-Men movie it's still making money to keep it afloat. It's not a flat out bomb. X-Men never has had one regardless of having 3 films with the titles not reviewed very well out of 7. But the next film much like First Class was, will be in the danger zone and need to work it's way up.

They can't pull what they did here again. Yes, social media is a complete different world but the product, marketing and constant switching of casts just isn't hitting as well as it could with audiences imo. Wolverine is a crutch but it's a crutch that was also focused on in the best received and most popular X-Men films with audiences. That doesn't mean I am saying Wolverine needs to be in everything, it just means these actors and characters don't have that screen power sadly. It's time to take a breather, make sure the script is tight and put Cyc, Jean and Storm clearly in the spotlight. Let them develop for a few films and have relationships with a cast that will remain. Otherwise they just won't get that marketability they deserve with audiences.

Their introduction should have not been in this film. Or more so, Apocalypse should have not been here.

 

[BeholdMe]

The old cast brought in quite a bit more audiences. We do know that.

First Class and DOFP should have had enough good will to bring the series back to high numbers. That wasn't the case here. It will be interesting how Wolverine does.

And there are reasons why it didn't people really need to stop blaming the young cast they weren't at fault. Even if Apocalypse has the old cast with everyone playing the same roles it still would've been the same. The movie was good but it failed on some parts and felt like it was to much squeezed into one movie so the result would've been no different. It will be interesting to see how Wolverine does because based on people here it should outsell both Apocalypse and DOFP since it has the OT great Jackman.

 

[kineticist]

Up to 513m (not sure what country that 4m came from lol)

 

[def28]

And there are reasons why it didn't people really need to stop blaming the young cast they weren't at fault. Even if Apocalypse has the old cast with everyone playing the same roles it still would've been the same. The movie was good but it failed on some parts and felt like it was to much squeezed into one movie so the result would've been no different. It will be interesting to see how Wolverine does because based on people here it should outsell both Apocalypse and DOFP since it has the OT great Jackman.

I agree with that. They were the best thing about it. The film itself hurt them for the next go round which is why this is a shame. I thought there was about 40% of a good film here mainly with the kids and the rest was a weak narrative that once again wasted many of the X-Mens potential. But different strokes.

As for the constant comparison, one has 16 years of rep, the others have one mixed received film. Why people get defensive that Hugh Jackman's Wolverine is marketable I'll never know. His audience is built in through a ton of work as the character. Even if people don't like the character that's just odd to deny.

I also don't seem to get why people think the Wolverine IP should be a higher seller then Wolverine starring in an ensemble X-Men film. There's a difference. X-Men 1-3 is where he came from. Audiences want him interacting with the X-Men. Obviously a boost is to be expected for Wolverine 3 given this is his last film, but who knows.

 

[psylockolussus]

I really don't see how anyone can think that this cast has more pull for X-Men films then Jackman, Mckellen, Stewart, Berry and crew did.

"The Ot cast is too old"
"Its just Nostalgia"
"New cast is better"
etc...

 

[psylockolussus]

DOFP clearly did not take place in the same continuity as the original cast and outright retconned X3 and it got an A Cinema Score from audiences.

What are you talking about?

The young Charles even saw what happened in the OT, including Logan killing Jean.

 

[GuestStar2004]

"The Ot cast is too old"
"Its just Nostalgia"
"New cast is better"
etc...

Wow coming from someone who says the same things over and over again for months you have a cheek Mr!

 

[fallenAngel]

I honestly don't think one cast is better than the other. And if it were, I'd honestly say I like the younger cast better overall.

As some have pointed out however, I do think it is a bit hard for Audiences to "care" when it sort of switches back and forth. You need to be able to invest. We know and love these characters so to us it matters less who plays them as long as they do a great job, but non comic readers are probably a bit confused and gave up.

Also, I think 9 times out of 10 prequels just aren't as popular. Especially after Star Wars essentially soiled the idea forever. Even Star Trek now has fans wondering if it was a good idea, yet back in 2009 most people loved it. A prequel is fine, a series of them just runs out of steam. Even with the new timeline, it can still feel like the series isn't moving forward

So I get why people want a true sequel. But real life business decisions make that tricky. I personally would love to have both old and new at the same time, but for above reasons, that would be messy.

 

[henzINNIT]

OT being too old has been said since 2011. Only Stewart and McKellen are really pushing it, and they are still working and playing characters who have been well served and due a rest. That's part of my problem with the PT guys. The lynchpins are Charles and Eric and neither need much more development.

The rest of the OT are fine. No-one is older than RDJ, and no-one complains about him.

And there are reasons why it didn't people really need to stop blaming the young cast they weren't at fault. Even if Apocalypse has the old cast with everyone playing the same roles it still would've been the same. The movie was good but it failed on some parts and felt like it was to much squeezed into one movie so the result would've been no different. It will be interesting to see how Wolverine does because based on people here it should outsell both Apocalypse and DOFP since it has the OT great Jackman.

How do you know though?

For pure marketing appeal, seeing recognisable faces is going to win out 99% of the time.

Apocalypse's underperformance will involve a lot of factors. For the most part, the new kids were the bright spots in a weak film for me. I'm not slighting them or their performances when I say they didn't help.

But those are monsters. Even in the early aughts, X2 and X3 did not do numbers like those franchises.

The Fast & Furious franchise suffered diminishing returns until they pulled in the familiar faces. With the numbers behind them, that franchise pushed forward adding new stars and expanding its commercial reach. It is probably the closest relative to the X-Men for those proposing the BO potential of an original cast return.

I honestly don't think one cast is better than the other. And if it were, I'd honestly say I like the younger cast better overall.

As some have pointed out however, I do think it is a bit hard for Audiences to "care" when it sort of switches back and forth. You need to be able to invest. We know and love these characters so to us it matters less who plays them as long as they do a great job, but non comic readers are probably a bit confused and gave up.

Also, I think 9 times out of 10 prequels just aren't as popular. Especially after Star Wars essentially soiled the idea forever. Even Star Trek now has fans wondering if it was a good idea, yet back in 2009 most people loved it. A prequel is fine, a series of them just runs out of steam. Even with the new timeline, it can still feel like the series isn't moving forward

So I get why people want a true sequel. But real life business decisions make that tricky. I personally would love to have both old and new at the same time, but for above reasons, that would be messy.

Well put. I posted elsewhere that as much as I love DOFP, and as much as it wiped the slate clean for more, it dealt a pretty huge blow to the prequel cast. Not only did it relight a candle for the original cast for many, it killed off a large number of the prequel cast off-screen.

Prequels are a rocky road to travel because they will always remind the audience of things they have already seen. The period films here don't have to adhere to continuity like most would, but there is still the image of what the characters will be lingering in the background. A 2023 epilogue squashes dramatic tension. I've seen arguments against this but it is the truth.

 

[fallenAngel]

Well put. I posted elsewhere that as much as I love DOFP, and as much as it wiped the slate clean for more, it dealt a pretty huge blow to the prequel cast. Not only did it relight a candle for the original cast for many, it killed off a large number of the prequel cast off-screen.

Prequels are a rocky road to travel because they will always remind the audience of things they have already seen. The period films here don't have to adhere to continuity like most would, but there is still the image of what the characters will be lingering in the background. A 2023 epilogue squashes dramatic tension. I've seen arguments against this but it is the truth.

I have very mixed feelings on the epilogue. It makes Dofp a complete package, and felt so good to have that ending after 7 years of waiting for something after Last Stand (The Wolverine helped with this a bit too). But indeed it makes me wonder what the point is continuing on in the past is sometimes. Like, just because a moment was nice and happy, doesn't mean that all dramatic tension is lost. Not all suffering comes from character deaths, but I don't take stock in people who argue that the why is interesting, not the what. I like not knowing what will happen.

But yeah, DOFP sort of ruined the ending of First Class as well. I like that the X-men had a couple of false starts, it feels true to life, but it also does feel a bit like a long road just to get back to where we were.

I've also wondered about the Fast & Furious model. It's really the only other continuous franchise around that rivals the X-men (both are about the same age) and it's bigger than ever. It also can sort of keep doing the same thing however and get away with it.

 

[GuestStar2004]

The Fast & Furious model really isn't a similar vehicle to X-Men at all really, the direction that franchise went is completely different and the way the films were received were completely different.

 

[fallenAngel]

True enough. The X-men isn't all that similar to any other franchise really. That's why no one is really agreeing on which direction it should take going forward.

I sometimes pity the people who make these movies. If for no other reason their decision making seems to always be between a rock and a hard place. There isn't a tried and true model to fall back on.

I mean Star Wars literally just remade a movie and got away with it. X_men retreads similar ground and everyone complains. I guess the brand just has bigger and better potential in everyone's mind.

 

[ApophènX]

I agree the X-Men have more potential but more on the team aspect side, characterization, and other things all the comic books have served well. Those movie still manage to create a great emotional complex and interconnect their characters in a way no mcu movie has done, or i missed it. But the detailed put in those movies is really interesting and every few days i notice some new things just remembering a moment in the movie and it keeps ading more depth. It's not on the plain sight and i too want to see the X-Men interaction and magic mojo bring in front, but if they manage to bring that to te screen and keep those kind of connections and emotion they could make the greatest super hero movie out there no doubt. I really hope they take a dep breath and look at all they done, assimilate it, get some great stuff frol the comics and give somthing with a storm of fresh air to blow us away. I hop they learn and learn and get to one of those movie where everything is fully mastered and the creative flow seem so natural and evident it just transform you.

 

[Docker2.0]

The obsession with trying to downplay the MCU to certain levels is astounding!

 

[ApophènX]

Well it really wasn't my intent, maybe you saw it too much and confuse? I didn't say DCU because they don't have enough movie to compare and i thought MoS had this kind of vibe. MCU doesn't have it, GotG did but it is the less mcu vibe movie of the package. I was just stating how i feel taking the only other superhero franchise that could come to my mind, i also think mcu movies feels more mechanical where i prefer the organic vibe i find in The X-Men. Those movie touch me more, it's highly personnal. Maybe it came out wrong, dunno

 

[Docker2.0]

Tomato, tomato.

 

[ApophènX]

Yes indeed my two big tomato eyes are watchin' you behind the curtain of my new dirty haircut

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

OT being too old has been said since 2011. Only Stewart and McKellen are really pushing it, and they are still working and playing characters who have been well served and due a rest. That's part of my problem with the PT guys. The lynchpins are Charles and Eric and neither need much more development.

The rest of the OT are fine. No-one is older than RDJ, and no-one complains about him.

Stewart and McKellen are two I wouldn't have a problem with. Magneto is a Holocaust survivor and Xavier is supposed to be his contemporary. They have to be old if the story is going to be set in the present.

As for RDJ, Iron Man is a rich business who gets all his powers from his suit and who's best friend is old enough to reach the rank of Colonel. He can be 50 and it isn't an issue. A middle-aged Jean Grey, Storm, or Cyclops is a problem. These characters started as teenagers and while they have gotten older with time, if it gets to the point where Jean Grey is 50 you are getting too far removed from the original concept and characters.

BTW, when you said no-one is older than RDJ, that isn't actually true. Kelsey Grammer, Famke Janssen, and Alan Cumming are all older than RDJ. It doesn't really matter, because like I said, it all depends on the character. Just pointing that out.

 

[Alison Blaire]

The important thing is the interpretation,Famke is much better actress than Sophie.And only a few months old has more than Rdj.