Apocalypse X-Men: Apocalypse Box Office Prediction Thread - Part 6

[def28]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottme...emma-of-tentpole-oversaturation/#62cf00c45517

I think this article does a good job of explaining a problem that is somewhat outside of this particular franchises control. We all want as good a movie as we can get, but the truth is a lot of people DID like Apocalypse. And given that a movie like Suicide Squad can open huge and Tarzan can hang on better than expected (both got pretty bad reviews) says that it's not just about quality.

X-men needs a hook/gimmick to sell tickets and that's a tricky scenario. A reboot for example would not really be a long term solution

Pretty much.

X-Men's IP is about 20 years old now and like everything it's difficult to find something new if their focus remains on the same characters every film. Now the decade jumping is old as well. A reboot will only buy them a film or two (given it's bringing something different and well received) before it starts to feel tired. Just like Star Trek the appeal of the first film won't be there anymore.

This is why shoving characters in the background who can become starring roles in other films like Emma, Betsy, Warren etc has shot them in the foot.

X-Men has to be prepared to start focusing on new characters and creative teams if they want to keep this franchise going. Cause much like DC and Marvel they know they have to expand so every story doesn't seem tired. Not saying DC is doing right quality wise but the general idea is there and that's why SS is making money. We know Fox want to do this and hopefully Deadpool was just the beginning. But news on New Mutants and Gambit have been very slow and it took very long just to get to Deadpool.

 

[fallenAngel]

Pretty much.

X-Men's IP is about 20 years old now and like everything it's difficult to find something new if their focus remains on the same characters every film. Now the decade jumping is old as well. A reboot will only buy them a film or two (given it's bringing something different and well received) before it starts to feel tired. Just like Star Trek the appeal of the first film won't be there anymore.

This is why shoving characters in the background who can become starring roles in other films like Emma, Betsy, Warren etc has shot them in the foot.

X-Men has to be prepared to start focusing on new characters and creative teams if they want to keep this franchise going. Cause much like DC and Marvel they know they have to expand so every story doesn't seem tired. Not saying DC is doing right quality wise but the general idea is there and that's why SS is making money. We know Fox want to do this and hopefully Deadpool was just the beginning. But news on New Mutants and Gambit have been very slow and it took very long just to get to Deadpool.

Yeah, they could've cycled out the characters as they went along. The Last Stand insisting on still making it the Logan show may have forever set it off course.

They've sort of pivoted to other characters, but with the prequels telling the story of the younger versions we've gotten stuck in a loop of wanting to do certain main characters 'right' first before we move on, but even if Scott, Ororo, Jean etc are done justice, we've still seen them a lot.

I have a feeling the new spider-man may suffer the same a bit. They keep hitting reset when that's not what they should do. Spider-man will get a bit of a boost from the MCU and it looks like the supporting cast will be largely new, but I can see it being the same exact story as the last five. I'll be very interested to see how it shakes out.

Whether or not the damage has already been done to the X-men franchise by this point is the question a reboot rests on, but if the cause of fatigue is redundancy, a reboot wouldn't really help. Especially if it's not part of the MCU.

It's possible with Fox developing mutant based television, Deadpool and New Mutants may push aside the core group for a while. For better or worse, I'm too much a fan of the A-listers to say. Fans may be satisfied with a story of the younger team, but unless there is a lot of character development for them, then yeah, wider audiences may still just dismiss it anyway.

 

[def28]

Exactly, audiences need a reason to care. Too many hardcore fans are just satisfied with their characters showing and that bias leads to them liking stuff no matter how they are handled. This just doesn't work for mainstream audiences. In order for Scott, Jean and Storm to have that mainstream marketability they need to be the characters that are pushing the franchise. All this has came far too late. A film starring Cyclops or Emma Frost plays much different then a film starring Prof X, Mags, Mystique or Wolverine. A film starring Deadpool plays much different then him showing up in an X-Men film and so on.

The trilogy format for franchises is now pretty much dead and characters have their stories told through multiple IP's instead of just 1. That's just how things have evolved, and the filmmakers need to have proper planning in order to execute this. No way around it, X-Men is a universe with many fan favorite and potentially hugely marketable characters. One film property was never gonna be the case for these characters. Fox themselves were always interested in the idea of multiple IP's. Even prior to the MCU.

Like you said with Spider-Man we have seen him plenty, one way or the other his new film will have an effect cause audiences have seen 5 films with him. 3 of which disappointed. Gotta bring something new and different while still being true to character. Cause seeing Spider-Man, Batman or The X-Men on screen is not a new thing. We need fresh and well made films for them to keep audiences paying. They all will drop once the quality does.

 

[fallenAngel]

Exactly, audiences need a reason to care. Too many hardcore fans are just satisfied with their characters showing and that bias leads to them liking stuff no matter how they are handled. This just doesn't work for mainstream audiences. In order for Scott, Jean and Storm to have that mainstream marketability they need to be the characters that are pushing the franchise. All this has came far too late. A film starring Cyclops or Emma Frost plays much different then a film starring Prof X, Mags, Mystique or Wolverine. A film starring Deadpool plays much different then him showing up in an X-Men film and so on.

The trilogy format for franchises is now pretty much dead and characters have their stories told through multiple IP's instead of just 1. That's just how things have evolved, and the filmmakers need to have proper planning in order to execute this. No way around it, X-Men is a universe with many fan favorite and potentially hugely marketable characters. One film property was never gonna be the case for these characters. Fox themselves were always interested in the idea of multiple IP's. Even prior to the MCU.

Like you said with Spider-Man we have seen him plenty, one way or the other his new film will have an effect cause audiences have seen 5 films with him. 3 of which disappointed. Gotta bring something new and different while still being true to character. Cause seeing Spider-Man, Batman or The X-Men on screen is not a new thing. We need fresh and well made films for them to keep audiences paying. They all will drop once the quality does.

Yeah, this is sort of annoying now in retrospect. At the time it seemed a bit farfetched, now its like, dang, if handled better they could've been ahead of the curve

 

[henzINNIT]

so true! And while I'm reading your comment I just see "X-Men: X-Tinction Agenda" in my shelf. Gosh, this x-men story would have been so perfect for Singer's style and interest and also for the main character of the franchise: Magneto. The X-Men together with Magneto helping to spark a mutant revolution in Genosha. This would have been the perfect third installment after "Days of Future Past". It would have led the character Magneto somewhere new and exciting, especially after his last speech in DoFP.

Apocalypse is really the worst X-villain in history. He only works in "Age of Apocalypse". How could Singer not see that the comicbook version of Apocalypse needs so much work done before he is NOT considered generic, boring and one-note? "buhuuu, I want to destroy the world!"End of story. Singer basically re-did the villains of "The Mummy" (he even gave Apocalype some sand powers), "Blade III", "Stargate", "Queen of the Damned" etc. with this movie. This whole evil "ancient-Egypt" villain returns-theme is soooo done and dated. He could at least use Apocalypse's Mayan backstory and create a fictive revenge story of a reversed conquista or whatever...

Damn, was "X:A"'s plot bad and uninspired...

It seems like part of the problem was that Singer & Co chose a villain to adapt, but not a story. X2 and DOFP mined great comic book stories for their emotional and thematic weight, changing what was necessary to work within the film universe. XM:A comes off as though the script was based around a villain's wikipedia page. They took the more memorable beats from his history and half-heartedly stitched them together. I can see why Apocalypse would seem like a top candidate for the next film as he was the next biggest threat on the list. I personally find him bland as hell, but was eager to see what Singer would do with him. Any story can work if you do it right, but the script for this one was weak, serving nothing but a few isolated character moments.

We do have to remember that the STORY for X-Men Apocalypse is credited to Singer, Harris, Dougherty and Kinberg.

Kinberg wrote the screenplay but he wasn't the only one who came up with story.

Also, Singer could have changed anything he wanted during the production and post-production of the movie.

It's hard to tell how much is down to Ottman's editing but it is difficult to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, as the saying goes.

Oh yeah, believe me I'd love to pretend Singer is not responsible. He made my 3 favourite films in this franchise. He dropped the ball big time on this and there's nothing to suggest that his hand was forced.

 

[DavidHaller]

It seems like part of the problem was that Singer & Co chose a villain to adapt, but not a story. X2 and DOFP mined great comic book stories for their emotional and thematic weight, changing what was necessary to work within the film universe. XM:A comes off as though the script was based around a villain's wikipedia page. They took the more memorable beats from his history and half-heartedly stitched them together. I can see why Apocalypse would seem like a top candidate for the next film as he was the next biggest threat on the list. I personally find him bland as hell, but was eager to see what Singer would do with him. Any story can work if you do it right, but the script for this one was weak, serving nothing but a few isolated character moments.

Yes, you are right. But besides 'Age of Apocalypse' there are also barely any great Apocalypse stories to chose from the comic books to be honest. He is just very lame and unfortunately mostly written by bad writers (Apocalypse: The Twelve, or Blood of Apocalypse etc.). But this is of course not an excuse to deliver such a dumb and shallow script without any creative vision.

I also don't understand why they haven't done a toned down version of 'Age of Apocalypse' . They could have shown how Apocalypse takes over Egypt after his awakening and how he quickly establishes a new mutant regime. this regime looks like utopia in the beginning but quickly reveals itself as social-Darwinistic and the X-Men have to take him down...it is so easy to come up with an interesting pitch that relates to current world politics. I bet Singer only did this movie because he has been bound by contract and tried to get it over with as fast as possible...

the script was just so so bad.

I'm still waiting for my personal letter of apology from Singer. Or should I finally move on...?

 

[GuestStar2004]

Not everything is about world politics.

 

[Snikt]

Yes, you are right. But besides 'Age of Apocalypse' there are also barely any great Apocalypse stories to chose from the comic books to be honest. He is just very lame and unfortunately mostly written by bad writers (Apocalypse: The Twelve, or Blood of Apocalypse etc.). But this is of course not an excuse to deliver such a dumb and shallow script without any creative vision.

I also don't understand why they haven't done a toned down version of 'Age of Apocalypse' . They could have shown how Apocalypse takes over Egypt after his awakening and how he quickly establishes a new mutant regime. this regime looks like utopia in the beginning but quickly reveals itself as social-Darwinistic and the X-Men have to take him down...it is so easy to come up with an interesting pitch that relates to current world politics. I bet Singer only did this movie because he has been bound by contract and tried to get it over with as fast as possible...

the script was just so so bad.

I'm still waiting for my personal letter of apology from Singer. Or should I finally move on...?

I knew it wasn't going to happen. But my tiny ever slightest hope was to have Apocalypse's story split into 2 films. One like the we got this year.

Except the X-Men believe they've won the fight. Only for Apocalypse to show up and create an even crappier future than the one we got in DOFP.

Have Apocalypse rise again after the future coda of DOFP. Then you'd have an even closer version of "Age of Apocalypse."

 

[def28]

I was hoping for that or a set up for Dark Angel Saga. They want X-Force, they had Angel, Pyslocke and Apocalypse...made sense.

Seeing AOA would have been great, I don't think we have ever gotten a film that would change up character roles so much. I know dealing with an ALT future would seem redundant but the execution and characters would be so bizarrely different that I think it would have been worth exploring.

 

[Smilodon]

In retrospect, the Dark Angel Saga can easily been repurposed for the FC cast. All you really need is Warren, Betsy and Apocalypse. The rest of the roles in the story can be filled with the younger cast. Singer basically said that the next director can do whatever they want with Warren and had that ominous shot of Psylocke, so I feel like that's an avenue that can be explored in the future if they choose too (and what better way to bring Psylocke/Angel into the fold of the X-Men? Angel turns into Archangel, Betsy seeks out the X-Men's help to save her lover)

I think AoA is redundant at this point in time, but depending on how Rhett/Wernick adapt Cable's origin, maybe we could get something AoA-esque in the future?

 

[DavidHaller]

I also thought for a brief moment that their next goal would be to adapt Remender's DARK ANGEL SAGA or THE APOCALPYSE SOLUTION after "XM:A".

They could have easily transfered Fontomex's character arc to Deadpool and make sure that beloved Deadpool would be the center of attention...

But after "X-Men: Apocalype" I doubt anybody is really afraid for Apocalypse to come back. He was simply not menacing and evil enough to justify the whole conflict taking place in Remender's X-Force series.

Remender's X-Force team would be so perfect on screen: Wolverine, Deadpool, Psylocke and Archangel (maybe adding Cable and Domino instead of Fantomex)...how can this group not be commercially successful?!

 

[Sithborg]

Well, it looks like Apocalypse had a bad release date in Japan. Godzilla is proving to be quite monstrous.

 

[Retroman]

Fox's X-Men: Apocalypse also opened in Japan this weekend, scoring half of what The Jungle Book delivered at an estimated $3.1 million as the film's global cume now sits at $539.7 million, more than $200 million less than 2014's X-Men: Days of Future Past.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4215

DOFP opened with 3,4 million and the Japanese set The Wolverine started with even less;$2,3 million. If it continues the trajectory of DOFP it could end with 9/10 million.

 

[GuestStar2004]

How funny the wolverine didn't make more in japan since its actually set in japan, id have thought that would have been a big deal for japan.

Godzilla: Resurgence is currently the big hitter there right now.

 

[Retroman]

How funny the wolverine didn't make more in japan since its actually set in japan, id have thought that would have been a big deal for japan.

Me too! I was surprised by those numbers.

Godzilla: Resurgence is currently the big hitter there right now.

I figured they'd like Godzilla over there...

 

[Iceman]

How funny the wolverine didn't make more in japan since its actually set in japan, id have thought that would have been a big deal for japan.

Haha, true!

 

[henzINNIT]

X-men needs a hook/gimmick to sell tickets and that's a tricky scenario. A reboot for example would not really be a long term solution

I agree in terms of the film itself and also for the marketing. The promo didn't gain significant interest at all, though I wonder what could have been done differently with the film being promoted.


Apocalypse had none of the interesting hooks of DOFP's time travel cast mash-up. It also lacked the fun period flair of First Class, as well as the novelty of first seeing younger versions of old characters. What was left to market? They couldn't rely on the already unpopular villain, and there weren't many strong action beats either.

 

[psylockolussus]

Wow I cannot believe this was screened in theaters in North America for only 9 weeks!

 

[Retroman]

I agree in terms of the film itself and also for the marketing. The promo didn't gain significant interest at all, though I wonder what could have been done differently with the film being promoted.

They're just not as quite as good at crafting great trailers like they were in the OT era.

I think it also helps greatly when you have proper movie related merchandise available to bolster your marketing push. That's a luxury that the FC films haven't had.

The group standee was one aspect that i feel was a big hit. I've seen many people taking pictures with it right until the end of it's theatrical run (that was August 6th in this country).

Hopefully they'll continue doing that for future films.

 

[Snikt]

Wow I cannot believe this was screened in theaters in North America for only 9 weeks!

Studios are the ones who decide when to pull a film from theaters. So FOX obviously thought they weren't going to make much money in the domestic theatrical one.

 

[psylockolussus]

Yeah but that is still quite a short run for a film like this.

 

[Zant]

This may sound crazy, but I think FOX may turn to someone like James Cameron if things get really desperate, like if the mainline Xfilms starts falling below First Class worldwide numbers. They will even wait for him to finish making his Avatar films.

 

[Iceman]

This may sound crazy, but I think FOX may turn to someone like James Cameron if things get really desperate, like if the mainline Xfilms starts falling below First Class worldwide numbers. They will even wait for him to finish making his Avatar films.

If the situation gets desperate I doubt he'd want to come. No need for him to take risks really and he can get a big pay cheque whenever he wants just doing projects he chooses.

 

[rayc1971]

I wasn't quite clear. The movie's action had tons of problems. But, I do not think the problem was a lack of action.

the cgi looked a mess also in this film cant believe singer made this after he did okay on days of future past

 

[psylockolussus]

The CGI reminded me of Origins: Wolverine! It was that bad!