Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - Part 12

[EnDz0n3]

I guess all we can do is take your word for alot of that stuff then.

You haven't so far even after most of the stuff I called from the Apocalypse set I was at became reality.

I liked how you mentioned the OC though like if they were the stars of this movie they would laugh at Simon Kinberg for anything like that. Course they wouldn't! they would respect him and even big him up just like anyone else for his part in the franchise.

Probably coz for most of the OT Cast, Kinberg was just *that* writer (for Marsden: that writer who killed him off; for Janssen: that writer that fridged her Dark Phoenix; etc.) he hasn't yet failed UPWARDS to the Producer role, and now to the Director role. I truly believe if the OT Cast were around and they heard Kinberg called himself the grandfather of the X-men franchise, they would tease him about it behind the scenes but yes sell him as the second coming to the press just like how the First Class cast is doing.

Well if he did it doesn't sound like it got him very far if he still had to take a pay cut.

Proves my point. Kinberg ain't the grandfather of the X-men franchise. He isn't braiN behind the X-men.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Probably coz for most of the OT Cast, Kinberg was just *that* writer (for Marsden: that writer who killed him off; for Janssen: that writer that fridged her Dark Phoenix; etc.)

So just Marsden and Janssen since they only had cameos in DOFP.

Then again how can Marsden hate on kinberg when him being written out was due to him signing on for superman returns.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Who said he hates him? I would say more like indifference. To steal a line from the greatest X-men movie of all time from Cyclops to Nightcrawler on the X-Jet: "Who is this guy?"

But at the end of the day Marsden has a hit HBO show, is on the cover of Men's Health (looking mighty fine) and doesn't have to worry about being killed off, or given 2 lines, in a movie that he's one of the stars of in the comics.

 

[psylockolussus]

The Last Stand clearly kicked the series in the nuts. That said, is it really hard to see the similar impact Apocalypse had on viewers? Both dipped hard from series highs. Apocalypse may have been born from lemons, but it spoiled a big comeback and stung just as hard. There isn't a body count*, instead it squanders its run time wheel spinning arcs for overexposed characters and continuing to under-utilize others. After TLS, fans were mourning losses and angry at Fox. Apocalypse has a guaranteed sequel in the works and people barely care. I'm not sure what's worse.

*I suppose a chunk of the fan base did lose some lives watching Apocalypse. Those same fans who were up in arms about the deaths in TLS finally got to see the original team reunited in DOFP. In a way, Apocalypse more definitively killed off the OT cast than TLS did.

I do a think 2016 X-Men movie and 2018 X-Men movie with the original cast would haveattracted/would attract more audience, as they have the nostalgia factor and box office success that the younger version simply couldn't replicate or top. However, if X5 turned out bad just like Apocalypse, and the upcoming X6 was being directed by Kinberg, I think quality wise it would still sucj a lot but, things would have been better here as there would be no Jlaw complaints/no Magneto complaints (assuming they didn't hire Ian if the ot cast returned) and a Deadpool/New Mutants cross over would have been easier to do. Though I'd still complain about Kinberg. At least the ot casst got a good film for their final appearance in this franchise. Now the younger version are carrying the burden of starring these misguided films (Apocalypse/Dark PhoeniX) that IMO shouldn't even happen in the first place.

 

[DACrowe]

The Last Stand clearly kicked the series in the nuts. That said, is it really hard to see the similar impact Apocalypse had on viewers? Both dipped hard from series highs. Apocalypse may have been born from lemons, but it spoiled a big comeback and stung just as hard. There isn't a body count*, instead it squanders its run time wheel spinning arcs for overexposed characters and continuing to under-utilize others. After TLS, fans were mourning losses and angry at Fox. Apocalypse has a guaranteed sequel in the works and people barely care. I'm not sure what's worse.

*I suppose a chunk of the fan base did lose some lives watching Apocalypse. Those same fans who were up in arms about the deaths in TLS finally got to see the original team reunited in DOFP. In a way, Apocalypse more definitively killed off the OT cast than TLS did.

That is an interesting point. And I don't think you're entirely wrong. Barring an amazing trailer and at least good reviews (above 75% on RT, even in the 60s is a bust), Dark Phoenix will probably underperform. Apocalypse left a bitter taste and now it has bad buzz due to the delay. I still think TLS did worse damage, because we went 10 years without seeing the main X-Men other than Logan lead a movie because of the bad decisions made in 2005/06 by Fox, Rothman, Ratner, and the rest (I tend to view Kinberg and Penn as hired guns on that following orders. Kinberg bears more responsibility on Apocalypse).

I think if TLS wasn't such a cluster****, we would have gotten more straight ahead X-movies and never done the prequels, and that is an interesting "what if." While I consider FC and DOFP the peak of the "mainline" series, it is obvious they're not as popular as the originals, because the originals were the original.

Still, I don't know. Personally, I was done with the franchise after TLS. I didn't see XOW in theaters (it didn't improve when I saw it at home), and I only checked out First Class because I was one of the 10 people who was a die hard Matthew Vaughn fan. I wasn't excited for another X-Men movie though in 2011. And clearly, judging by the box office, TLS and XOW did a lot to damage the brand. FC and DOFP made me a fan again though of the X-franchise. I kind of liked how it endured such terrible lows to... rise again as a Phoenix. (sorry.) I think it has weathered Apocalypse well. Now if Dark Phoenix is also a failure, I think it is time to give up on it anyway, Disney or no Disney.

With that said, here is hoping to DP working. For whether it's a hit or a flop, I again want the final Fox-Men movie to cause us to remember the franchise's strengths as opposed to its weaknesses.... most of which can be traced back to TLS.

 

[psylockolussus]

Again, for the tenth time, Fox wanted to do spin offs even before X3 was released... X3's quality/critical reception didn't lead to Fox greenlighting Wolverine/First Class. It was clear a Wolverine prequel was going to be made right after X3. Fox wanted to make cheaper films. It wasn't until the success of the Avengers that Fox realized that they should bring back the original cast again.

 

[DACrowe]

Again, for the tenth time, Fox wanted to do spin offs even before X3 was released... X3's quality/critical reception didn't lead to Fox greenlighting Wolverine/First Class. It was clear a Wolverine prequel was going to be made right after X3. Fox wanted to make cheaper films. It wasn't until the success of the Avengers that Fox realized that they should bring back the original cast again.

Yes. Fox wanted to make cheaper films. So they killed off half the major characters in TLS and did a generally ****** job with the ones that they didn't kill off (the worst character assassination is still Rogue). And then when XOW wasn't well received, they scrapped doing more solo prequels, starting with Magneto, but realized TLS left the narrative in tatters.

So they made a FC prequel, which was far better than it had any right to be. And then after Avengers, yes, they finally greenlit DOFP, which went to great lengths to undo everything that happened in TLS. Because that movie was so bad, Fox preferred making a prequel with new actors in FC.

You are explaining Fox's rationale for making a terrible TLS, which is, again, why the series became the hot mess it became. FC and DOFP, on top of being the highest quality movies in the mainline series, had to bend over backwards to clean up the mess of TLS and XOW. You may say they should have not stayed in the past after DOFP, but the reason they went back there is because the original trilogy screwed the pooch so bad in TLS.

 

[henzINNIT]

Fox were a disaster back then. 'The Last Stand' has such a petty and vindictive backstory, but most of the films we got were an enormous uphill struggle by the sounds of it. I would have loved some form of internal logic, and some more love for my OT favs, however I'm grateful to have a handful of films I love. 'Dark Phoenix' is almost a perfect end point for a franchise of such baffling diversions.

 

[psylockolussus]

Dark PhoeniX would end this franchise in a bad note, the way Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 ended. I'm just glad that the original cast won't be part of this upcoming mess. I know Disney has a big role in this "abrupt" ending for buying Fox but Fox also knew better to hire someone else other than Kinberg. There's a reason why Kinberg has yet to direct a Star Wars film despite being connected to the Star Wars franchise. And at some point wrong decision making will lead to bad consequences. Hopefully, Disney finally getting the rights would bring new hope on who wants the X-Men to thrive in the movies, not just at the box office but also in quality film making that respects the source material.

There's no enjoyment for me seeing Logan and these Deadpool movies despite being good as films, not really enriching the X-Men mythos especially in this franchise that they could be treated as stand alone films and doesn't improve the previously released films and make us eXcited about the other films in the franchise. It also adds more insult to the injury that the X-Men aren't as popular as they were before because the wrong direction Fox is taking this franchise to.

 

[psyonic]

AND nobody wants to see prequels of the X-Men, young X-Men? zzz

 

[kevork89]

That is an interesting point. And I don't think you're entirely wrong. Barring an amazing trailer and at least good reviews (above 75% on RT, even in the 60s is a bust), Dark Phoenix will probably underperform. Apocalypse left a bitter taste and now it has bad buzz due to the delay. I still think TLS did worse damage, because we went 10 years without seeing the main X-Men other than Logan lead a movie because of the bad decisions made in 2005/06 by Fox, Rothman, Ratner, and the rest (I tend to view Kinberg and Penn as hired guns on that following orders. Kinberg bears more responsibility on Apocalypse).

I think if TLS wasn't such a cluster****, we would have gotten more straight ahead X-movies and never done the prequels, and that is an interesting "what if." While I consider FC and DOFP the peak of the "mainline" series, it is obvious they're not as popular as the originals, because the originals were the original.

Still, I don't know. Personally, I was done with the franchise after TLS. I didn't see XOW in theaters (it didn't improve when I saw it at home), and I only checked out First Class because I was one of the 10 people who was a die hard Matthew Vaughn fan. I wasn't excited for another X-Men movie though in 2011. And clearly, judging by the box office, TLS and XOW did a lot to damage the brand. FC and DOFP made me a fan again though of the X-franchise. I kind of liked how it endured such terrible lows to... rise again as a Phoenix. (sorry.) I think it has weathered Apocalypse well. Now if Dark Phoenix is also a failure, I think it is time to give up on it anyway, Disney or no Disney.

With that said, here is hoping to DP working. For whether it's a hit or a flop, I again want the final Fox-Men movie to cause us to remember the franchise's strengths as opposed to its weaknesses.... most of which can be traced back to TLS.

Great post. I agree on all points made.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Yes. Fox wanted to make cheaper films. So they killed off half the major characters in TLS and did a generally ****** job with the ones that they didn't kill off (the worst character assassination is still Rogue). And then when XOW wasn't well received, they scrapped doing more solo prequels, starting with Magneto, but realized TLS left the narrative in tatters.

So they made a FC prequel, which was far better than it had any right to be. And then after Avengers, yes, they finally greenlit DOFP, which went to great lengths to undo everything that happened in TLS. Because that movie was so bad, Fox preferred making a prequel with new actors in FC.

You are explaining Fox's rationale for making a terrible TLS, which is, again, why the series became the hot mess it became. FC and DOFP, on top of being the highest quality movies in the mainline series, had to bend over backwards to clean up the mess of TLS and XOW. You may say they should have not stayed in the past after DOFP, but the reason they went back there is because the original trilogy screwed the pooch so bad in TLS.

Totally agree with this. TLS was a disaster and took them years to recover from. Apocalypse was a bit of a let down but did not where near the damage TLS, and actually set up some interesting story threads with the new team, etc.

 

[GuestStar2004]

I feel like the franchise has fluctuated enough that people don't give enough credit to the current films chances. many underestimate them and are even surprised when Dark Pheonix appeared in 2018's most-anticipated films in Fandango poll picked by Fans or even the overall reaction from the [BLACKOUT]Deadpool 2 cameo[/BLACKOUT].

 

[Elayis]

That is an interesting point. And I don't think you're entirely wrong. Barring an amazing trailer and at least good reviews (above 75% on RT, even in the 60s is a bust), Dark Phoenix will probably underperform. Apocalypse left a bitter taste and now it has bad buzz due to the delay. I still think TLS did worse damage, because we went 10 years without seeing the main X-Men other than Logan lead a movie because of the bad decisions made in 2005/06 by Fox, Rothman, Ratner, and the rest (I tend to view Kinberg and Penn as hired guns on that following orders. Kinberg bears more responsibility on Apocalypse).

I think if TLS wasn't such a cluster****, we would have gotten more straight ahead X-movies and never done the prequels, and that is an interesting "what if." While I consider FC and DOFP the peak of the "mainline" series, it is obvious they're not as popular as the originals, because the originals were the original.

I don't know about that. Remember, TLS was before the MCU. The studios logic back then was to take it one sequel at a time, and if you're lucky you get a trilogy and then you're out. It was practically unheard of for actors to do more than three films in a single franchise. The way TLS ended may not have pleased fans, but it wrapped things up pretty definitely and was also the most successful X film at the time (Roger Ebert also considered it the best of the three, for what it's worth).

I'm not sure Fox had any plans or desire for more films other than a few standalone prequels. It wasn't until Marvel shook things up that the other studios saw that superhero fatigue was an illusion (so long as the films are good).

Dark PhoeniX would end this franchise in a bad note, the way Spider-Man 3 and The Amazing Spider-Man 2 ended. I'm just glad that the original cast won't be part of this upcoming mess. I know Disney has a big role in this "abrupt" ending for buying Fox but Fox also knew better to hire someone else other than Kinberg. There's a reason why Kinberg has yet to direct a Star Wars film despite being connected to the Star Wars franchise. And at some point wrong decision making will lead to bad consequences. Hopefully, Disney finally getting the rights would bring new hope on who wants the X-Men to thrive in the movies, not just at the box office but also in quality film making that respects the source material.

There's no enjoyment for me seeing Logan and these Deadpool movies despite being good as films, not really enriching the X-Men mythos especially in this franchise that they could be treated as stand alone films and doesn't improve the previously released films and make us eXcited about the other films in the franchise. It also adds more insult to the injury that the X-Men aren't as popular as they were before because the wrong direction Fox is taking this franchise to.

I think the reason Kinberg hasn't done a SW film is because he simply doesn't have the time. His priorities seem to lie with the X-Men, and producing all of the movies along with directing DP is a full time job. SW only produces one film a year, and those slots are already taken by other people. I doubt KK and the rest of LFL share the same misgivings about Kinberg that we here at the Hype have. Kennedy has made her own share of flops, and she doesn't even have creative involvement like writing or directing. I'm sure his track record is a complete nonissue to her and other execs.

 

[Davidstorm]

I feel like the franchise has fluctuated enough that people don't give enough credit to the current films chances. many underestimate them and are even surprised when Dark Pheonix appeared in 2018's most-anticipated films in Fandango poll picked by Fans or even the overall reaction from the [BLACKOUT]Deadpool 2 cameo[/BLACKOUT].

Yes
dark phoenix appears in some lists of films more expected, including until in the own index of IMDB of popularity the film is currently in a good position, for a film that does not have a trailer
despite all the negativity of this place, out of here people are suspicious but waiting for the movie.

 

[psylockolussus]

AND nobody wants to see prequels of the X-Men, young X-Men? zzz

Especially when they already went back to the present/future times a couple of times? Why continue to make these X-Men in the past films? Lmao imagine if Wonder Woman/Captain America are having separate films set in the 50s/60s/70s/80s after A/Jl. 1 film set in the past is enough.

 

[psylockolussus]

I think the reason Kinberg hasn't done a SW film is because he simply doesn't have the time. His priorities seem to lie with the X-Men, and producing all of the movies along with directing DP is a full time job. SW only produces one film a year, and those slots are already taken by other people. I doubt KK and the rest of LFL share the same misgivings about Kinberg that we here at the Hype have. Kennedy has made her own share of flops, and she doesn't even have creative involvement like writing or directing. I'm sure his track record is a complete nonissue to her and other execs.

Or he simply didn't get an offer. In a franchise that keeps hiring directors that just directed a successful film (JJ / Rian), if they wanted Kinberg they would get him especially Kinberg. He even uses a Star Wars banner in his Twitter... I doubt he simply got no time for Star Wars,yet he has time for Logan's Run and a spy film?

 

[Davidstorm]

but according to some website
kimberg is writing the script for an SW movie

 

[Elayis]

Or he simply didn't get an offer. In a franchise that keeps hiring directors that just directed a successful film (JJ / Rian), if they wanted Kinberg they would get him especially Kinberg. He even uses a Star Wars banner in his Twitter... I doubt he simply got no time for Star Wars,yet he has time for Logan's Run and a spy film?

Logan's Run hasn't seemed to be going anywhere for years, and the spy film appears to be a passion project, particularly given the all star cast he's assembled. Maybe he just doesn't value SW as highly personally as fans do. Who are we to say what films he should do and in what order?

 

[Orba]

but according to some website
kimberg is writing the script for an SW movie

He was expected to have written the script for the film Josh Trank was going to have made before Fant4stic. Not really much has been said about what he was going to be writing the script for since.

 

[psylockolussus]

but according to some website
kimberg is writing the script for an SW movie

Yeah its been reported even before Rian got an offer to do the next trilogy post episode 9. None of the 5 Star Wars films so far (7, 8, 9, Rogue, Solo) have credited Kinberg as a script writer.so when is it gonna happen? If they really wanted him, he would have officially set for a star Wars film that is coming out soon as Disney is usually very advanced, but no, instead he's attached to Logan's Run and a Spy film.

Logan's Run hasn't seemed to be going anywhere for years, and the spy film appears to be a passion project, particularly given the all star cast he's assembled. Maybe he just doesn't value SW as highly personally as fans do. Who are we to say what films he should do and in what order?

He already wrote some episodes for the Star Wars cartoon and like I have said, he uses a Star Wars banner in twitter, instead of you know the X-Men. I really doubt he has no time for a Star Wars film but he has passion for other films?

 

[Davidstorm]

hard to know the reason
but anyway, he seems to be very close to the SW franchise, and must have helped in some way in SW-rogue one and SW-TFA since he gets a special "thanks" in the credits of both films.
so I believe, that hears some internal problems with directors that ended up disturbing his debut in the franchise

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Spoiler

Cannot wait for the first trailer

I think in July?

 

[EnDz0n3]

Star Wars fans must be counting their lucky stars this director is busy. Jealous!

 

[Davidstorm]

maybe they're hoping he'll one day be free to work with the movie franchise
since he did a great job on stars wars rebels.