Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - Part 13

[Spider-Fan]

I think it would be great if they found an "alternative way" to explore him, while letting the X-Men alone. I feel the same about Logan. I'm 100% sure Marvel will introduce him as soon as they get their hands in the character. But I'm also tired of watching Logan in the X-Men. I want the X-Men to be developed without Logan taking the spotlight. But the difference is that Logan has his solo adventures, so he can be introduced and developed in solo movies, while the X-Men movies can focus on Storm, Jean, Scott for instance. And I'm sure Logan will eventually appear in an Avengers movie.

So if they find a way to use Eric while leaving the X-Men alone... that's great.

If not for the rights situation with Universal, I would be all for Logan being first introduced in a Hulk film

I think Wolverine should not be in the X-Men initially. Maybe even do a Wolverine solo first and having him recruited by Xavier in the post credits. Then have him in the sequel. But I too expect Wolverine to be an Avenger eventually, as well. Like I said, if I were Marvel and once this happens, I would move to 4 films a year and use the 4th film slot to put in 1 new X-Men film (solo or team) per year. They easily can accommodate it.

I think he shouldn't even be here, honestly. But for some reason they think there can't be X-Men without him. That's sad. I had said before that I think Jean will be an object of conflict between Charles and Eric in DP. And now the spoilers seem to hint that.

And Eric being so forced in some of those movies is one of the reasons I want (and I think Marvel will) take a big break for him and let the X-Men breath fresh air.

I wouldn't have put him in it either, to be honest. Or if I did, it would be a quick wrap it up type thing (since this is possibly the end of the flashback films). But, I agree. The way they're handling them now has grown stale. DOFP offered us the potential for a change in the dynamic, and they sort of just went back to status quo. Wasted opportunity.

 

[DACrowe]

To be fair to FOX, since 2011, their track record is pretty good. First Class, Days of Future Past, and Logan are amazing films. Deadpool and Deadpool 2 are very well regarded and fun. The Wolverine is a good effort at a Wolverine solo (even if it isn't perfect). The only movie they released to this point that was subpar was X-Men: Apocalypse in that time frame. I would argue even that is better to me than most of their pre-FC output, but even counting that as subpar, we have a score of 6 great/good and 1 bad. That is not bad. Even if Dark Phoenix's leaks are true (and it sounds awful by the sounds of the leaks), then we still have 6 out of 8 good film vs bad (or 3 out of 4...75%).

I want the MCU X-Men as much as the next guy, but in all fairness to FOX, they have been doing alright.

Yes, that's always been my perspective. Since 2011, the franchise has been pretty well handled with a few great movies and a lot of risk taking. That's why I was really hoping Dark Phoenix could continue the trend so that it ended on a grace note.

I do think that five years after the reboot, we can look back at the good Fox films and see fandom be more appreciative. Kind of like Marvel fans can now admit the first two Spidey movies by Raimi were really good, when from about 2011-2016 they were "terrible."

 

[Lip]

If not for the rights situation with Universal, I would be all for Logan being first introduced in a Hulk film

I think Wolverine should not be in the X-Men initially. Maybe even do a Wolverine solo first and having him recruited by Xavier in the post credits. Then have him in the sequel. But I too expect Wolverine to be an Avenger eventually, as well. Like I said, if I were Marvel and once this happens, I would move to 4 films a year and use the 4th film slot to put in 1 new X-Men film (solo or team) per year. They easily can accommodate it.

That's how I want it too. I mean, I know Logan will pop up in the MCU as quick as possible, so my (more realistic) dream is to have a first X-Men movie, then a Wolverine solo, then a second X-Men movie, and then Logan joining the team in a third one. But... it's a dream.

And yeah, Marvel is now getting a huge universe full of franchises (teams and solos). Part of me want them to keep expanding the cosmic universe and unknown properties (especially after GotG). But I want Marvel to fully explore the mutant universe as well. 4 movies a year, even tho is not quite enough, is the best path to take with so many franchises now.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yes, that's always been my perspective. Since 2011, the franchise has been pretty well handled with a few great movies and a lot of risk taking. That's why I was really hoping Dark Phoenix could continue the trend so that it ended on a grace note.

I do think that five years after the reboot, we can look back at the good Fox films and see fandom be more appreciative. Kind of like Marvel fans can now admit the first two Spidey movies by Raimi were really good, when from about 2011-2016 they were "terrible."

I have always appreciated the Raimi films. Spider-Man 2 is still my favorite Spidey film to date! Now...those other 2 that came out...yeah my opinion is not kind

But I agree. If DP turns out bad, short term that may hurt Fox's rep making CBMs overall, but these films will still be appreciated at least. They should be as well. The good ones I mean.

 

[henzINNIT]

That leak sounds very believable to me, and for the most part more interesting than Apocalypse. I too felt a knee-jerk reaction to TLS retreads, but in all honesty it appears that good moments were chosen and deserve a second chance. It remains to be seen if they have landed in a better film.


I wonder if when retelling Jean's origin and meeting with Charles, Kinberg remembers that Charles should be neither walking nor bald as he was originally. #xmencontinuity

 

[P Supreme]

haven't been on these forums been on IW, DP2 and Solo but Dam if those leak spoilers are true

at this point I'm just waiting for the MCU to announce the first initial plans when they get the characters back i'm not spending another dime on Foxmen

save your "but you haven't seen the movie etc.."

I've read enough lol

 

[Phoenix_Flare]

When that EW article came out and I read it I predicted this was gointo be TLS 2.0, a death, Jean’s origin, the multiple personality disorder, Magneto being the side villain it’s like what was the point of DOFP? I get that you can alter things but no matter what the same events will still play out but with a different factors. Why couldn’t the Phoenix just be an Evolution of a Jean’s powers? Why couldn’t they use a new Hellfire Club: Selene, Harry Leland, the Cuckoos, Mr. Sinister? Or the Church of the Shi’ar that worship the Phoenix deity? Theirs a lot of material Kinberg could have used to make the Phoenix story different.

 

[Lip]

Yep. Eric being shoehorned in this raised the TLS 2.0 red flag to me.

 

[X-Maniac]

Any speculation as to why the marketing is dropping X-Men from the title? Makes zero sense to me.

Someone on the Reddit leaks page - who was quick to post that the plot spoilers were all fake - chimed in with this: "Well this is technically not a X-Men film but a Jean Grey film featuring the X-Men. Similar to Captain America: Civil War."

That helps explain the title being just Dark Phoenix. We have been complaining on here that the X-Men are background characters in their own movies, so they are removing X-Men from the title.

In addition, that quote I posted not only repeats Kinberg's claim of Civil War being an inspiration, but also confirms the classic X-Men are mostly background characters - hence the spoiler claims that Storm has virtually no screentime and no shining moment.

In my opinion, that person trying so hard to debunk the spoilers is connected with the movie or studio.

 

[X-Maniac]

My take on the spoilers

Spoiler

"X-Men are like Avengers status at the beginning of the film (which feels really unearned) – astronauts at risk of dying in space (literally the atmosphere not space) due to some cosmic waves.''

“When Jean got hit by the cosmic rays she sent the spaceship flying into space and somehow it f***ing lands on an alien planet. The aliens look at the wreckage and go ‘f*** it this means war. Let's go get the Phoenix force’. That's literally their whole motivation.”

My problem with this scenario is that space is a VAST place!

Spoiler

For a human-built spacecraft to be flung across space and on to an alien planet would take a long time! I think Kinberg hasn't checked this out.

It would take 138,000 years using current 2018 technology to get to the nearest Earth-like habitable planet (Proxima Centauri b).

The other issue is the aliens' spaceship coming to earth and crashing near a house owned by Chastain's original character, who is killed by an alien who takes her form.

A spaceship crashing on Earth would have huge environmental effects, just like a meteor would. There would be a huge blast wave. That house wouldn't exist anymore.

Sorry to say but this is more evidence of crap writing. Someone needs to do some research. Not just the comics but also a bit of science! Singer did at least try to ground the time travel science in DoFP...

 

[DACrowe]

When that EW article came out and I read it I predicted this was gointo be TLS 2.0, a death, Jean’s origin, the multiple personality disorder, Magneto being the side villain it’s like what was the point of DOFP? I get that you can alter things but no matter what the same events will still play out but with a different factors. Why couldn’t the Phoenix just be an Evolution of a Jean’s powers? Why couldn’t they use a new Hellfire Club: Selene, Harry Leland, the Cuckoos, Mr. Sinister? Or the Church of the Shi’ar that worship the Phoenix deity? Theirs a lot of material Kinberg could have used to make the Phoenix story different.

I actually like focusing on aliens to a certain point. But it doesn't sound like Shi'Ar, nor does it sound like the conflict of the comic which is what makes it so good (the fate of the universe vs. a friend). Instead it sounds so... generic.

I will just give one grain of salt, everyone is talking like these leaks are real. While I have a hunch they are, there is no guarantee. And early "test screening" hints from Deadpool 2 and Wonder Woman claimed those movies were terrible. They were wrong. So do keep one hint of salt, even if I cannot convince anyone to be hopeful about it.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I've never had a problem with dropping the X-men title, just like Solo or Rogue One should've dropped the A Star Wars Story. It almost shows insecurity by keeping them.

Avengers: Infinity War should've been Infinity War since that was more than just Avengers. But I can see why they kept is since it's still Avenger 3.

As the Dark Knight, Logan shows if you build it, they will come. Depends on the quality of "it" though.

Hopefully Fox won't use the lack of X-men in the title as an excuse if it underperforms.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I actually like focusing on aliens to a certain point. But it doesn't sound like Shi'Ar, nor does it sound like the conflict of the comic which is what makes it so good (the fate of the universe vs. a friend). Instead it sounds so... generic.

I will just give one grain of salt, everyone is talking like these leaks are real. While I have a hunch they are, there is no guarantee. And early "test screening" hints from Deadpool 2 and Wonder Woman claimed those movies were terrible. They were wrong. So do keep one hint of salt, even if I cannot convince anyone to be hopeful about it.

Also remember, the movie is being reshot. The end product could still be radically different.

 

[Lip]

The movie will go through reshoots. And while New Mutants will (supposedly) reshoot more than 50% of the movie, I'm not sure they'll do the same with Dark Phoenix, although some reports say it will be the whole third act.

Anyway, although they can fix many things, I don't think they'll change the whole or the most part of the movie. I think a lot will be the same.

 

[psylockolussus]

I’m just ready for Marvel to take over already.

I've been ready since Rupert Murdoch decided to sell FoX to Disney! I just cannot wait. And yes, Fox had mostly good movies this decade, but since Dofp, the only good movies are the solo movies yet they have killed the X-Men in Logan while in Deadpool... Its just Colossus. The direction for the X-Men is just not eXciting even if Apocalypse and Dark PhoeniX are good prequels. I don't want the X-Men stuck in the past. Also what's happening to Storm, Cyclops, Jean, Psylocke, Jubilee, Angel, Gambit, Iceman, Kitty, Beast, Rogue, Nightcrawler, Bishop to name a few right now isn't good. Either they are in limbo since Dofp or underdeveloped. Like seriously we need to watch Deadpool just to see Colossus, why can't we see him with the other A list X-Men. While Jean's role in Apocalypse was just okay while I doubt Dark PhoeniX would be eXecuted very well. Then there's the Gambit that seems misguided from the start. New Mutants is horror with mutants sprinkled over. Then plenty of films underdevelopment that is not clear if they are connected to the previous films? How am I supposed to root for this franchise?

 

[Spider-Fan]

The movie will go through reshoots. And while New Mutants will (supposedly) reshoot more than 50% of the movie, I'm not sure they'll do the same with Dark Phoenix, although some reports say it will be the whole third act.

Anyway, although they can fix many things, I don't think they'll change the whole or the most part of the movie. I think a lot will be the same.

The whole movie likely not. But key subplots can be radically changed, such as maybe what they're doing with Magneto, etc. Even if the core plot remains the same, changing a scene or two here, reshooting a subplot there, and it changes the movie more than you would think.

 

[psylockolussus]

The movie will go through reshoots. And while New Mutants will (supposedly) reshoot more than 50% of the movie, I'm not sure they'll do the same with Dark Phoenix, although some reports say it will be the whole third act.

Anyway, although they can fix many things, I don't think they'll change the whole or the most part of the movie. I think a lot will be the same.

The thing is if they fix the problems... They are fixing it with Kinberg. They aren't hiring someone more credible to write new scenes or make the film better. Its still gonna be a Kinberg product. IMO, since Kinberg allegedly ghost directed F4, he made the film worse. So these reshoots aren't eXactly encouraging to hear.

 

[X-Maniac]

I get the feeling that Kinberg is simply doing the X3 he wanted to make, more or less, rather than the Dark Phoenix film that needs to be made.

It's the only explanation for repeating story elements from X3.

I said on here months ago that some of what we knew sounded like X3 all over again and the usual crowd of Fox-defenders turned on me, and yet we now have even more alleged information that suggests even more bits of X3 are being recycled.

I don't think Xavier needs to keep secrets, not AGAIN. This version of Xavier needs to be more helpful to Jean, at least at first.

I also don't think Magneto needed to be in this.

 

[psylockolussus]

When that EW article came out and I read it I predicted this was gointo be TLS 2.0, a death, Jean’s origin, the multiple personality disorder, Magneto being the side villain it’s like what was the point of DOFP? I get that you can alter things but no matter what the same events will still play out but with a different factors. Why couldn’t the Phoenix just be an Evolution of a Jean’s powers? Why couldn’t they use a new Hellfire Club: Selene, Harry Leland, the Cuckoos, Mr. Sinister? Or the Church of the Shi’ar that worship the Phoenix deity? Theirs a lot of material Kinberg could have used to make the Phoenix story different.

Or Kinberg could just adapt another story other than Dark Phoenix. Like people are already tired of retreading things from the original trilogy and this has a big possibility of being compared to X3. IMO, they should have adapted something else. At least it wouldn't be a big embarrassment if its bad compare to doing the Dark Phoenix Saga again and completely failing again.

 

[DACrowe]

The movie will go through reshoots. And while New Mutants will (supposedly) reshoot more than 50% of the movie, I'm not sure they'll do the same with Dark Phoenix, although some reports say it will be the whole third act.

Anyway, although they can fix many things, I don't think they'll change the whole or the most part of the movie. I think a lot will be the same.

To me there are three primary problems with the leaks (if they are true), mind you I only read the main complaint and not all of them, so there are likely details I'm missing.

Spoiler

1. According to the supposed scoops, Phoenix doesn't go into space past our orbit, she just jettisons a spaceship beyond that point. Why not have her travel through the cosmos and visit this planet and cause some kind of major damage, even if it isn't at the magnitude of a Death Star like in the comics? Make the aliens seem reasonable for wanting to take her out.

2. The ending doesn't sound like it is about "The Trial of Jean Grey" but more of a generic Independence Day thing. I could be wrong, but retooling the third act so it is what is in the comics--Jean Grey's Judgement Day and where do the X-Men stand on it--is the obvious conflict and hook of the story. I can't imagine why they'd introduce aliens and not do that.

3. Magneto having another heel turn. This is probably too late to fix (if the leaks are true), but having him defend Jean Grey would've been a refreshing change of pace for the character. Have him and Cyclops, and maybe Xavier on her side, while the other mutants are slowly turned away.

Reshoots could fix the first two, but I don't think you can rewrite Magneto's role in the film. But Kinberg just repeating that beat with Magneto is so disheartening. He really learned nothing from Apocalypse... if the leaks are true. And because I have no idea, I won't get too worked up about it.

 

[DACrowe]

Thank you, Spider-Fan, for blacking that out. I forgot.

 

[Spider-Fan]

No prob

 

[xrs13]

Whatever happens with reshoots or anything, I just hope the film is great so we can end the Fox-Men films on a high. Like many have said, their win loss ratio has been far better in recent times and it would be a shame to leave it on a sour note

 

[psylockolussus]

And that would be their fault. They gave Kinberg too many chances.

I get the feeling that Kinberg is simply doing the X3 he wanted to make, more or less, rather than the Dark Phoenix film that needs to be made.

It's the only explanation for repeating story elements from X3.

I said on here months ago that some of what we knew sounded like X3 all over again and the usual crowd of Fox-defenders turned on me, and yet we now have even more alleged information that suggests even more bits of X3 are being recycled.

I don't think Xavier needs to keep secrets, not AGAIN. This version of Xavier needs to be more helpful to Jean, at least at first.

I also don't think Magneto needed to be in this.

Whoever's in charge just can't let go of Raven/Erik. Like first we had to deal that the X-Men were in the past again for Apocalypse. But according to them its a completion of a trilogy for the fc cast, so that gave them reason (or Xcuse because they just love Fassy/Jlaw) to bring back both Mystique/Magneto. When they could have not brought them back or at least give them a break to focus on the actual X-Men. And here, they are still in the movie. I don't even care if one of them dies in the movie, they are still in the movie! And the thing is we shouldn't be grateful that some like Jean/Cyclops might finally get more screentime. It should have happened right after Dofp and even before that.

 

[X-Maniac]

Just to add here that 'blacked out' text cannot be read at all when i browse the forum on my phone.

But text in spoiler tags can be read by clicking on show to open the spoiler.