Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Lip]

For me a rough equivalent, in the absence of directly comparative examples, would be having MCU films totally dominated by just one main Avenger say Thor, and then Nick Fury, Loki and Maria Hill, with the rest of the team being an afterthought even after many, many films. Prof X, Magneto, Mystique and Wolverine have had great coverage (of who only one is a traditional X-Man), and it's now time that all the other great X-Men got their shot. And this will be automatically great for major female superheroes if they get it right due to how strong the X-Men's female lineup is.

I think the equivalent would be 18 years of Justice League movies where Batman get all the screentime, while Superman and Wonder Woman are only afterthoughts. Where the Joker is the villain in every single film with the same formula. Where Cheetah is the female lead and the leader of Justice League and the actress refuses to wear makeup, only two scenes a movie. And where you wait 16 years to see Wonder Woman getting the spotlight that she deserves, but she is reintroduced as a 16 years old with 3 lines, then she meets Darksideid (with a laughable makeup), and agrees to be part of a genocide with no motivation whatsoever. I think that's about it.

 

[Iceman]

I think the equivalent would be 18 years of Justice League movies where Batman get all the screentime, while Superman and Wonder Woman are only afterthoughts. Where the Joker is the villain in every single film with the same formula. Where Cheetah is the female lead and the leader of Justice League and the actress refuses to wear makeup, only two scenes a movie. And where you wait 16 years to see Wonder Woman getting the spotlight that she deserves, but she is reintroduced as a 16 years old with 3 lines, then she meets Darksideid (with a laughable makeup), and agrees to be part of a genocide with no motivation whatsoever. I think that's about it.

Uh..yeah, that does sound even worse haha. Glad it's time for a full on reboot but at the same time I want DP to be as good as possible so that audiences have a good last memory of X-Men before they get something new.

 

[2kt09]

I think the equivalent would be 18 years of Justice League movies where Batman get all the screentime, while Superman and Wonder Woman are only afterthoughts. Where the Joker is the villain in every single film with the same formula. Where Cheetah is the female lead and the leader of Justice League and the actress refuses to wear makeup, only two scenes a movie. And where you wait 16 years to see Wonder Woman getting the spotlight that she deserves, but she is reintroduced as a 16 years old with 3 lines, then she meets Darkseid (with a laughable makeup), and agrees to be part of a genocide with no motivation whatsoever. I think that's about it.

WW would definitely be Mystique. In place of Joker, it'd be Lex, no question. See Superman Returns.
Either way, JL just has too many varying powerhouses to go the we're regular ol' school faculty/students with weaponize-able abilities.

 

[Cktopl33]

Uh..yeah, that does sound even worse haha. Glad it's time for a full on reboot but at the same time I want DP to be as good as possible so that audiences have a good last memory of X-Men before they get something new.

Well, there surely are new things in Dark Phoenix. My biggest gripe is that they failed to show it (or even hint with a few great seconds worth) in the trailer. A big chunk of the movie take place in space. They hardly showed that in the trailer. There are aliens, but no hint of that in the trailer. There's hardly any significant action shots. I've seen the Russian cut. They certainly have more action sequences to display like the giant explosion in the downtown city area or what appear to be the space shuttle crash into the water. I think there was a quick shot of Jean flying. And of course the money shot of Jean's fire hair with her glowing eyes and glowing crackling face and an extended scene of the phoenix force fire effect. It looked very cool. The effects were great. Why they didn't show more of that? Anyone's guess. Everybody was looking for a shot that proves they are doing things differently with Phoenix in this movie and not merely repeating the glazed over angry look in X3. Kinberg alluded to the fact that we haven't seen the fullest effect of the Phoenix (the trailer only show a lower level of that power). They definitely have more to show. Whoever cut the official trailer did a poor job at what it needed to accomplish.

It's very clear that there is no cohesive communication at Fox right now. Perhaps that's due to the pending merger. The trailer is a very good example of this. First, they release the trailer at such an abysmal time with no marketing suggesting no real set plan. Then change the release date again soon after. This reveal to me that higher-ups at Fox either told no one in marketing or gave the marketing very little time to react because it wasn't corrected in the trailer beforehand. Ridiculous. This doesn't seem to be as a result of Dark Phoenix because they've shifted a lot of other movies around as well.

 

[Cktopl33]

I don't think the MCU X-Men movie is happening before 2022, but as soon as they get their hands on, I'm sure they'll do everything they can to introduce those characters in the MCU. The same way they quickly added Peter in Civil War and his solo movie in the slot.

Well, that's the thing. HOW will they do it? Unless the films are set in the past, I don't see how they'll be able to use these same set of characters. Well, they can but it will be plagued with the same issues with the Fox films. The x-men will have to be in their 40s-50s or older. Xavier/Magneto in their 80-90s unless they change the character's backstory because some of the backstories anchor them into a certain time period. Otherwise they will likely use an all new different team of unknown x-men characters. The more the x-men films are held off in the MCU, the older the characters will be in present day.......unless, of course, they set the films back in time (which I don't have an issue with) like Captain Marvel. But then will people complain about period pieces like they did with Fox' prequels? It will be interesting to see which way Marvel will go.

 

[Cktopl33]

idk, i was kind of struggling to stay excited and these news ruined even that.
by summer next year, disney-fox deal will be finalized and disney play could be launched. and if kevin feige really has x-men in his sandbox by then, i think he will insist this gets dumped to streaming. short term loss, long term gain and all that :/

I don't know if Feige (or anyone else at Disney) can influence what happens to Dark Phoenix. As mentioned earlier, Fox probably have contract deals in place that extend well into 2020s for some of these movies. It's probably why Disney is releasing any movie completed or in production when the merger closes. Contracts often grant the distributor a broad range of rights to mediums and markets, which include theater distribution and video on demand. So, Disney can't alter that. In the USA, a percentage of box office receipts are sent back to the distribution company (in this case 20th Century Fox) who then divides the dividends between itself and the production companies (there are four production companies for Dark Phoenix). With Marvel, there is only one production company (Marvel Studios). The division of profits between production company and distributor are decided on the back end, by contract, well before the movie is produced (which in this case is before the Disney-Fox merger closes). These contracts specifies whether the distributor can screen films in theaters, DVD/Blu-ray, video on demand, cable, broadcast, etc. The contract could also specify the territory and lifespan for the rights. That's why Disney can shut down or control movies that are still in development since contracts haven't yet been drawn. But with the other films, Disney may be required to release in theaters because contracts were made with different production companies before Disney acquired Fox.

Even with Mowgli which Netflix acquired the rights from Warner Bros, Netflix is now the distributor but the production company is founded by Andy Serkis who is also the director. Mowgli is still receiving a theatrical release alongside streaming release.

 

[fobi]

 

[Matt.S99]

I love the new suits. Keeping fingers crossed that thr jacket will be available for purchase at some point.

I’m sure they will be! I have one of the black uniform jackets. (Changed the piping color to purple for a Gambit cosplay). Give it a few months and I’m sure they will be available.

 

[psylockolussus]

I don't think the Mouse has any particular incentive to bury Dark Phoenix. If would be one thing if Writer/Director/Producer Simon Kinberg were introducing new characters that were conflicting with Feige 's plans for the MCU, like the Skrulls. Or if it were launching a new series, like New Mutants. But many of the key characters in this series have been kicking around since 2011, and this film shouldn't prevent, for example, a new Ororo popping into the Black Panther sequel. Feige proved with Spidey that he can pull off a quick reboot, so I think the Mouse will give the Fox Men finale it's time in the theaters and move on from there.

Not after this June delay. I mean Dark PhoeniX would just underperform in that month and Kinberg probably just butchered dps for the 2nd time. Its for the best interest of the ip to bury Dark PhoeniX now and just wait for the reboot.

 

[Cktopl33]

Not after this June delay. I mean Dark PhoeniX would just underperform in that month and Kinberg probably just butchered dps for the 2nd time. Its for the best interest of the ip to bury Dark PhoeniX now and just wait for the reboot.

Disney won't be able to bury it in part because of the deal with Donner. A theatrical release may be part of the licensing agreement between the four production companies for Dark Phoenix and 20th Century Fox. Remember, Fox only own a piece of the X-Men film franchise. Lauren Shuler Donner & her production company own the film rights and struck a distribution deal with Fox. 20th Century Fox is the distributor (like Disney) who get the films out into theaters and other outlets (as well as whatever other deals struck within the contract) while her production company is similar to Marvel Studios that produce movies to shop to the distributor. So it will be interesting to see how this will unfold now that Disney will be merging with Fox. Disney will then be the distributor, but they still won't fully own the characters for a certain period as outline in whatever contract Donner had in place unless (as I suspect) Disney does not make any films featuring these characters until after a certain period of time where the rights revert back. Which is probably why you won't see any x-men movies for a number of years (the slate is planned out and Marvel is focusing on The Eternals). Only then will the full rights revert back to Disney unless Donner renegotiates a new contract with Disney. Now, that's based on whatever type of contract Donner established. It could be that there is no time limit and Donner owns the film rights indefinitely. She may be able to shop around to a different distributor if things with Disney don't work out. We don't know since details of the contract are never made public.

If Disney decide to move forward making an x-men movie early, then Donner may have some control over it since her production company still retain the film rights. Marvel Studios won't be the full owner yet and it seems unlikely that Feige (as president of Marvel Studios) would want to share rights between two production companies for this particular property.

However, with spider-man, he shares producing credit and production studios with Amy Pascal on Spider-man: Homecoming. So...you never know! Maybe they are striking a similar deal with Donner on x-men. Don't forget that at the beginning of the year in an article regarding news of the merger, Lauren Shuler Donner said she would be 'happy' to work with Feige. Donner may always be part of the equation with whatever Marvel does with x-men as one article quoted:

Shuler Donner already knows Disney CEO Bob Iger, Marvel Chief Kevin Feige, and Walt Disney Studios chairman Alan Horn. She is optimistic about the films they can produce together.

 

[Cktopl33]

Perhaps they are still showing new footage for NYCC. Maybe a better cut trailer (which was rumored). Hopefully it will release online.

 

[Mysteryman]

thats good to hear.

 

[Obsidian Idea]

@Cktopl33 Thanks for your insight on contracts, rights and legal. Very interesting stuff.

 

[Leo Zelinsky]

LoL....


LSD will not stop any X-MEN reboot.

 

[SumT]

Question for Collider: #AskKinberg Why are you such a mediocre writer, Simon? do you like your style or you just cant do better?

 

[psylockolussus]

He probably gets asked a lot with that question.

 

[Hypestyle]

Near as I can tell... no Blue Area of the Moon. No Shi'Ar soldiers or citizens. No Imperial Guard. I don't notice anyone from the Hellfire Club. So who all are the villains in this movie?

 

[SumT]

He probably gets asked a lot with that question.

nah, thats probably the #1 question he ask himself in private, and tortures him each year. And he probably doesnt know the answer to that either

 

[psylockolussus]

Near as I can tell... no Blue Area of the Moon. No Shi'Ar soldiers or citizens. No Imperial Guard. I don't notice anyone from the Hellfire Club. So who all are the villains in this movie?

Selene is in the film, she just doesn't look like the Selene from the comics. Kinberg is such a X-Men fan!!!!

 

[Zarex]

Disney won't be able to bury it in part because of the deal with Donner. A theatrical release may be part of the licensing agreement between the four production companies for Dark Phoenix and 20th Century Fox. Remember, Fox only own a piece of the X-Men film franchise. Lauren Shuler Donner & her production company own the film rights and struck a distribution deal with Fox. 20th Century Fox is the distributor (like Disney) who get the films out into theaters and other outlets (as well as whatever other deals struck within the contract) while her production company is similar to Marvel Studios that produce movies to shop to the distributor. So it will be interesting to see how this will unfold now that Disney will be merging with Fox. Disney will then be the distributor, but they still won't fully own the characters for a certain period as outline in whatever contract Donner had in place unless (as I suspect) Disney does not make any films featuring these characters until after a certain period of time where the rights revert back. Which is probably why you won't see any x-men movies for a number of years (the slate is planned out and Marvel is focusing on The Eternals). Only then will the full rights revert back to Disney unless Donner renegotiates a new contract with Disney. Now, that's based on whatever type of contract Donner established. It could be that there is no time limit and Donner owns the film rights indefinitely. She may be able to shop around to a different distributor if things with Disney don't work out. We don't know since details of the contract are never made public.

If Disney decide to move forward making an x-men movie early, then Donner may have some control over it since her production company still retain the film rights. Marvel Studios won't be the full owner yet and it seems unlikely that Feige (as president of Marvel Studios) would want to share rights between two production companies for this particular property.

However, with spider-man, he shares producing credit and production studios with Amy Pascal on Spider-man: Homecoming. So...you never know! Maybe they are striking a similar deal with Donner on x-men. Don't forget that at the beginning of the year in an article regarding news of the merger, Lauren Shuler Donner said she would be 'happy' to work with Feige. Donner may always be part of the equation with whatever Marvel does with x-men as one article quoted:

This sounds an awful lot like the bizarre "Constantin Gambit" that was brought into play whenever there were talk of FF rights reversion. "Actually, Constantin (or in this case, LSD) owns the rights! Fox is just a go between and can't sell the rights to Disney/Marvel, even if they wanted to! We're through the looking glass people!"

It's all crap. Laura Shuler Donner's production company doesn't own jack squat, which is why her company wasn't been mentioned in any of the press and investor releases from Disney or Fox. And wasn't a party to the legal battle regarding the "Mutant X" TV show (see attached)
FindLaw's United States Second Circuit case and opinions..

Fox holds the live action licensing agreement to the X-Men family of characters (for now!) and is funding, marketing and distributing the films. Laura Shuler Donner's company is a producer on the films. Kevin Feige may decide to keep his former boss on for old time sake, but there is no legal obligation for him to do so. To say that Laura Shuler Donner will have the rights to the X-Men franchise after the deal closes when DISNEY RELEASED MULTIPLE PRESS RELEASES SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS THE CASE is a blatant lie. If you are going to continue to push this BS, try to put a tad more effort into it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

This movie was delayed yet again? I'm sorry guys, but a movie being delayed this many times is never a good thing.

I'm not going to say conclusively this movie will be taken off the release slate entirely. But I think the prospect of it being a straight to streaming movie increases every time they delay. So in that regard, that possibility has just gone up.

 

[Dark Raven]

There was that movie based on the John Le Carre novel with Ralph Fiennes and Rachel Weisz where he kept digging around for things to beat a dead horse. It was called the Constantin Gardener.

 

[Alison Blaire]

Where is the Kinberg defenders?

 

[Ordet]

Where is the Kinberg defenders?

They really doesn't like play with stubborn children.

Waiting for more muture issues

 

[Cktopl33]

This sounds an awful lot like the bizarre "Constantin Gambit" that was brought into play whenever there were talk of FF rights reversion. "Actually, Constantin (or in this case, LSD) owns the rights! Fox is just a go between and can't sell the rights to Disney/Marvel, even if they wanted to! We're through the looking glass people!"

It's all crap. Laura Shuler Donner's production company doesn't own jack squat, which is why her company wasn't been mentioned in any of the press and investor releases from Disney or Fox. And wasn't a party to the legal battle regarding the "Mutant X" TV show (see attached)
FindLaw's United States Second Circuit case and opinions..

Fox holds the live action licensing agreement to the X-Men family of characters (for now!) and is funding, marketing and distributing the films. Laura Shuler Donner's company is a producer on the films. Kevin Feige may decide to keep his former boss on for old time sake, but there is no legal obligation for him to do so. To say that Laura Shuler Donner will have the rights to the X-Men franchise after the deal closes when DISNEY RELEASED MULTIPLE PRESS RELEASES SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE IS THE CASE is a blatant lie. If you are going to continue to push this BS, try to put a tad more effort into it.

Film rights deal with film, theatrical releases and usually owned by a producer or director who then secure the financial backing necessary to convert the property into a film which is then shopped to a distributor (Fox). Rights for TV are separate. Laura Shuler Donner is well known for buying the film rights for the X-Men for Fox in 1994. She is very closely tied to the film rights for this franchise. The extent of the details are based on whatever contract she had with Fox and she talked about the fact that Fox took over the role as negotiator for her company: