Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[marvintabacon]

Slightly different trailer with

Spoiler

Chastain and Jean fighting in the fire

Previous version doesn't have it.

Wow this was removed in some trailers... but i already saw this one when the 2nd trailer was shown...

 

[marvintabacon]

This was removed in some trailers... i mean the 2nd trailer...the one with chastain’s character choking jean

 

[The Guard]

So you spend 7 paragraphs trying to school me, saying that Mystique, in the prequel films, had this beautifully written trajectory, one film ending and another film beginning with this really masterful journey of this young woman.

And then say "So she Flip Flops? So what?"

I feel like several of those separate thoughts were just sentences, not paragraphs, but...

No. I made two separate points regarding your complaint about her flip flopping.

That your point was reductionist, reducing a complex character arc to "But...but she changes teams!" You can make anything sound lame when you mock it and reduce it.

And that changing sides is a staple of the X-Men mythology. It's built into the evolving nature of the the human/mutant conflict, where both sides go too far at times.

 

[Mutant 77]

And that changing sides is a staple of the X-Men mythology. It's built into the evolving nature of the the human/mutant conflict, where both sides go too far at times.

Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix.
Rogue.
Magneto.
Polaris/Malice.
Forge.
Angel/Archangel.
Gambit.
Cyclops.

Should I continue...?

 

[Justice4#Rouge]

While I agree this mystique feels nothing like the ot or what was potentially being setting up at the end of FC (and before Jennifer became Uber famous lol). This film did one thing correct by said character, which was choosing...

Spoiler

The right lead to kill off. Mystique, no matter how you feel towards the character, it makes the most sense, sans Charles. She’s the connective tissue with all the characters/X men in the films. At least it makes sense from the previous movies as to why she was chosen. Her brotherly relationship with Xavier, her bond with Mags, her romantic one with Beast, she spent a lot of time with Quicksliver during the climax of Apoc. She saved nightcrawler and bought him to the mansion. Storms hero ( one I absolutely despise, but it’s there and serves its purpose here) and one added here in the film is her meternal relationship with Jean. Also they’ve spent 9 years together as X men , probably on countless missions. Say what you will about the choices made but I feel they got this point right, as it causes a genuine conflict of interest with each character. The only one that doesn’t really have a stand out connection with mstyique, is the one most loyal to Jean which is scott ( unless you count him as second in command to Raven) which is kind of smart because he’s only looking at it from his perspective rather than those with a personal stake in it . "]

 

[ciscostudent561]

View attachment 22269 Out of topic but I Already saw CM i was really hyped by the movie that i created a Fan Art for it!!! I dont like it so flat,boring and predictable.Anyways here’s my fan art.

thats nice but thats #notmycaptainmarvel
interesting to hear that you didnt like it
honestly alot of MCU movies play it very safe and follow a studio formula- the funny thing tho is that formula provides a contrast to their more risky movies (IM, IW, CW) which makes the risky movies that much more compelling in the eyes of the GA

 

[Jh7058622]

No you clearly said Ororo was in her early 30s when Storm was introduced (also when she first met Jean).
You: "Storm was more like early 30s..."
And you also clearly said Jean was 23ish when Jean and Storm first met (also when Storm was introduced):
You: "...and Jean was...going into her mid 20s like 23ish. when they first met so no."

If we are to follow that tombstone with Jean's birth year being 1956 and death 1980 and do comic book ages that way (many would argue that would be the wrong way to calculate comic book ages), then yes Jean was 24 when she died. Ororo presumably born late 1950-early 1951 (she was 6 months old in 1951), and was introduced in 1975, and calculating comic book ages the same way, then no Storm was not "early 30s" in Giant Size X-men #1.

So back to Dark Phoenix, Storm is around 5 years older than Jean in the comics. Sophie is 23 today (I misquoted the wrong age: 24) and Alexandra will be 28 later this year. So the five year gap between the two actresses matches with the same 5 year gap between the comic book characters. Tell me again why the latter can't be the big sis figure to the former?

Have a good day sir.

30 is early 30s the earliest. You're splitting hairs. You were just wrong. You clearly said she's three years older than Jean. That is incorrect. Nuff said.

And every year (unless you're born on New Year's) there is always overhangs from your previous year so it is possible for her to have been 23 or 24 since it doesn't list her full date we don't know if it was earlier or later in the year. At any rate I would only be a couple months off most likely.

And you're still wrong because Storm is 6 years older not 5.

Why must you continue this?

 

[marvintabacon]

thats nice but thats #notmycaptainmarvel
interesting to hear that you didnt like it
honestly alot of MCU movies play it very safe and follow a studio formula- the funny thing tho is that formula provides a contrast to their more risky movies (IM, IW, CW) which makes the risky movies that much more compelling in the eyes of the GA

Yeah CA movie is like checking the boxes.. how did nick loses his eyes check the origins of the beeper check and etc... I think she does not have a redeeming aspect in this movie to be called a hero like what captain america did before he got that serum... from the start she knows she is already something and destined to be something she is just show off character which she is not in the comics.

 

[The Guard]

Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix.
Rogue.
Magneto.
Polaris/Malice.
Forge.
Angel/Archangel.
Gambit.
Cyclops.

Should I continue...?

Please do. It's one of my favorite quirks of the X-Men mythos.

I think even Danger has gone bad a few times. Sauron has gone good, Sabertooth and Juggernaut have joined the X-Men.

What's going on with Mystique is basically a microcosm of the conflicted mutants' experience.

Which will make it all the more poignant when

Spoiler

she turns out to be evil in the credits

 

[fobi]

Which will make it all the more poignant when

Spoiler

she turns out to be evil in the credits

Go on...

 

[psylockolussus]

Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix.
Rogue.
Magneto.
Polaris/Malice.
Forge.
Angel/Archangel.
Gambit.
Cyclops.

Should I continue...?

No, please don't, because most of the characters you mentioned aren't even utilized by FoX well. And they are set aside for Mystique's flip flopping. Should we discuss Magneto flip flopping in the films a dozen times as well?

 

[Jh7058622]

Flip flopping isn't the same as serving your own interests (X2 when Magneto AND Mystique helped the X-Men or when they joined forces in DOFP to stop a post apocalyptic world from happening). Or changing your mind ie when Erik joined Xavier in FC it was just because their ideologies weren't as extreme as they evolved into (that's also just comic accurate) . Hey, I agree Magneto should have had a break for a film or two but the same can be said about Loki in the Thor franchise.

With FC timeline Mystique it's a bit different. She never outright believes in the totalitarian nature of the Magnetos message but she isn't sure if Xavier's peaceful coexistence is possible either. She was always meant to be more stuck in the middle which is why it made a lot of sense she broke away from Erik in DOFP. She sometimes sees both ends of the coin throughout her series run.

 

[Mutant 77]

Flip flopping isn't the same as serving your own interests (X2 when Magneto AND Mystique helped the X-Men or when they joined forces in DOFP to stop a post apocalyptic world from happening). Or changing your mind ie when Erik joined Xavier in FC it was just because their ideologies weren't as extreme as they evolved into (that's also just comic accurate) . Hey, I agree Magneto should have had a break for a film or two but the same can be said about Loki in the Thor franchise.

With FC timeline Mystique it's a bit different. She never outright believes in the totalitarian nature of the Magnetos message but she isn't sure if Xavier's peaceful coexistence is possible either. She was always meant to be more stuck in the middle which is why it made a lot of sense she broke away from Erik in DOFP. She sometimes sees both ends of the coin throughout her series run.

Great post. Very great.

 

[Mutant 77]

Please do. It's one of my favorite quirks of the X-Men mythos.

Banshee. Against the original 5.
Sunfire. Against the original 5.
Caliban.
Psylocke/Revanche.
Rachel Summers, inbetween her Hound and Phoenix natures.
Emma Frost -----> she was supposed to be bad, evil and ugly during Claremont's run.

 

[Frankeh]

Flip flopping isn't the same as serving your own interests (X2 when Magneto AND Mystique helped the X-Men or when they joined forces in DOFP to stop a post apocalyptic world from happening). Or changing your mind ie when Erik joined Xavier in FC it was just because their ideologies weren't as extreme as they evolved into (that's also just comic accurate) . Hey, I agree Magneto should have had a break for a film or two but the same can be said about Loki in the Thor franchise.

Someone is eager to bring up the MCU and then tells posters like me to "stay on topic"...

Also, are we forgetting Mystique dumped her paraplegic stepbrother on the beach and was shown recruiting mutants with Magneto only for this to be dropped in the very next film... not to mention Magneto spent his time grooming Mystique to his own cause.

They changed their mind obviously. I don't know why that's hard to admit. Just like despite Moira coining the term X-Men at the end of First Class we are given no indication in DOFP that a team was ever formed, and in Apocalypse we are told Mystique came up with that term. Lol.

 

[Web-Head]

Weren't the Skrulls rumored to be in this? Are they still involved?

 

[Mutant 77]

They changed their mind obviously. I don't know why that's hard to admit. Just like despite Moira coining the term X-Men at the end of First Class we are given no indication in DOFP that a team was ever formed, and in Apocalypse we are told Mystique came up with that term. Lol.

Mystique was supposed to become a villain like the original timeline and the second timeline.
DOFP was a new, meaningful alteration that made her evolve and grow in a different way. It was brilliant character-arc.
It's the WHOLE POINT of DOFP. The whole point of an entire movie... did you miss that? Oh God.

Said that.......................... Mystique came up with the term, Moira just knew about it and later introduced the concept to Xavier in a "fashionable" way. It's great. I love that they made the First Class roster the very first official X-Men team in the second timeline. Wonderful retcon.

 

[Frankeh]

Mystique was supposed to become a villain like the original timeline and the second timeline.
DOFP was a new, meaningful alteration that made her evolve and grow in a different way. It was brilliant character-arc.
It's the WHOLE POINT of DOFP. The whole point of an entire movie... did you miss that? Oh God.

From the very start of the movie Mystique is on her own, they did not follow through on her and Magneto forming their own Brotherhood. You cannot deny that.

And here's what I call having your cake and eating too: Mystique changes because of time travel but everyone else ends up making the same mistakes: here we are with unstable Phoenix again despite Xavier having glimpsed this very event in Logan's mind.

So everyone ends up going through the same motions, except Mystique. No way Jose.

Also, Mystique did NOT come up with the term.

 

[Mutant 77]

From the very start of the movie Mystique is on her own, they did not follow through on her and Magneto forming their own Brotherhood. You cannot deny that.

And here's what I call having your cake and eating too: Mystique changes because of time travel but everyone else ends up making the same mistakes: here we are with unstable Phoenix again despite Xavier having glimpsed this very event in Logan's mind.

So everyone ends up going through the same motions, except Mystique. No way Jose.

1- Magneto was captured in November 1963 (the Brotherhood lasted 1 year in the second timeline) and she was alone and confused.

2- Xavier was NOT suppressing Jean's powers at the beginning of "Apocalypse" (the bedroom scene). He had chosen a different path, courtesy of second timeline memories from Wolverine.
Without the space mission at the beginning of "Dark Phoenix", things were supposed to be better, much better.
And we still have Jean Grey alive in 2023...

3- Not quite. Not Magneto. Not Cyclops. Not Jean Grey. Not Xavier.

That's my cake. A wonderful franchise. Adult superhero movies.

 

[Frankeh]

1- Magneto was captured in November 1963 (the Brotherhood lasted 1 year in the second timeline) and she was alone and confused.

You're only proving my point. They came up with all that when writing DOFP, NOT what was established at the end of FC.

2- Xavier was NOT suppressing Jean's powers at the beginning of "Apocalypse" (the bedroom scene). He had chosen a different path, courtesy of second timeline memories from Wolverine.
Without the space mission at the beginning of "Dark Phoenix", things were supposed to be better, much better.
And we still have Jean Grey alive in 2023...

So she still ends up unstable because of reasons the writers came up with. Thank you.

That's my cake. A wonderful franchise. Adult superhero movies.

I'm sure the blu rays will have a long life on your shelf.

 

[Mutant 77]

You're only proving my point. They came up with all that when writing DOFP, NOT what was established at the end of FC.

So she still ends up unstable because of reasons the writers came up with. Thank you.

I'm sure the blu rays will have a long life on your shelf.

1- She was naive in FC, and she was still naive at the end of FC, so they wrote a brilliant movie to explain how she changed in the second timeline. DOFP. That's great storytelling.

2- That's how comic books work, that's how MCU movies work, that's how superhero movies work. Welcome to the superhero world.

3- Yes. Global smash hit blu-rays on my shelf and on all the shelves of people loving adult and brilliant superhero movies, not parodies like "Thor: Ragnarok".

 

[GuestStar2004]

Weren't the Skrulls rumored to be in this? Are they still involved?

Rumors suggest there are shape shifting aliens, or at least aliens that can do something similar to that degree are involved. but they probably ain't the skrulls.

 

[Web-Head]

Rumors suggest shape shifting aliens, or at least aliens that can do something similar to that degree are involved. but they probably ain't the skrulls.

Thank you

 

[Frankeh]

1- She was naive in FC, and she was still naive at the end of FC, so they wrote a brilliant movie to explain how she changed in the second timeline. DOFP. That's great storytelling.

2- That's how comic books work, that's how MCU movies work, that's how superhero movies work. Welcome to the superhero world.

3- Yes. Global smash hit blu-rays on my shelf and on all the shelves of people loving adult and brilliant superhero movies, not parodies like "Thor: Ragnarok".

I see where this is going...

I stand by my point. Thank you very much.

 

[GuestStar2004]

Friday, March 29 • 3:15pm - 4:15pm
Twentieth Century Fox: Dark Phoenix