Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[Charzhin0]

Well i guess dark phoenix ends with Xavier and charles on the same page and will be the first time in the series where Magneto is not fighting Charles and/or betraying him at the end.

 

[Charzhin0]

But given the patterns of the movies, Charles may actually end up fighting Magneto at the end, i wouldnt be surprised

X1: Fight
X2: Betray
X3: Fight
FC: Betray
DOFP: Betray
Apocalypse: Fight
Dark Phoenix:

 

[Frankeh]

If anything, X3 is THE ONLY film with them in it that does not to feature such a sequence.

Not true at all, Apocalypse didn't feature a chess scene.

 

[icekid]

Spoiler

Not true at all, Apocalypse didn't feature a chess scene.

You're completely right! Alas, it's a centerpiece of their dynamic.

Well i guess dark phoenix ends with Xavier and charles on the same page and will be the first time in the series where Magneto is not fighting Charles and/or betraying him at the end.

Correct. This time he starts out on the opposition and ends on his side.

 

[GuestStar2004]

There's no cliffhanger. They know its being rebooted and are treating it like a finale

Well they have said they like to make these movies like its a possible final movie. and really there is no way to know if there would be a reboot unless they asked Fiege directly what he would do if the deal goes through, and even then there was no certainty the deal would go through. so this would be more or less be a precautionary ending. after all imagine if they did that and then the deal fell through?

I think the mistake is to say they knew what would happen. because chances are no one really knew anything.

 

[icekid]

Well they have said they like to make these movies like its a possible final movie. and really there is no way to know if there would be a reboot unless they asked Fiege directly what he would do if the deal goes through, and even then there was no certainty the deal would go through. so this would be more or less be a precautionary ending. after all imagine if they did that and then the deal fell through?

I think the mistake is to say they knew what would happen. because chances are no one really knew anything.

But there weren’t even seeds planted for a future film the first go around before reshoots. There wasn’t going to be a Dark Phoenix sequel that would once again expand upon the Dark Phoenix story back then in which they, as you say, plan out each film as if it’s their last except before that until the axe came down, it was plan out production as its their last. Now in a post merger world, they are literally using the term last film, no hypotheticals.

Sidenote, just to make this perfectly clear, when the word two parter was used it was as inDeathly Hallows and Mockingjay, not X1 and X2. No actor confusion around contracted films vs actual films. Hence the longer than usual shoot schedule that the production company, not the studio, planned out, secured and put together costs for. Studios don’t handle that and they could care less just as long as you spend their money wisely and as cheap as possible, in fox’s case (for everything). I would have assumed the 2nd that never came to realization would have been aimed for its current release window, again following the path of the mention franchise two parters.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

For some reason I stopped getting notifications for this thread... I thought the hype just ended abruptly. Huh.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Yep, it was planned as a two-parter featuring the Shi’ar. I’m not really sure that it needed two parts unless they were going further into space and established the possessed Jean as a hero first. But I don’t think the “Dark Phoenix” arc needed two films. Shame we didn’t get the Shi’ar, though.

 

[icekid]

Yep, it was planned as a two-parter featuring the Shi’ar. I’m not really sure that it needed two parts unless they were going further into space and established the possessed Jean as a hero first. But I don’t think the “Dark Phoenix” arc needed two films. Shame we didn’t get the Shi’ar, though.

I would think that we would have had to focus on the fact that theres an entire empire made of multiple civilizations that no one had even a hint of an idea existed and kind of can't downplay that but also can't push Jean's story, her personal descent to darkness (which is what it was published as! Not a pocssssion or battle between two entities!) to a subplot once again so that would need some fleshing out. It's also why I think its silly that there are some complaining as to why the aliens aren't the Shi'ar. How about we all get together, stop and think on what those two introductions in 120 minutes would look like...

 

[Limonade]

Yep, it was planned as a two-parter featuring the Shi’ar. I’m not really sure that it needed two parts unless they were going further into space and established the possessed Jean as a hero first. But I don’t think the “Dark Phoenix” arc needed two films. Shame we didn’t get the Shi’ar, though.

I also thought I read somewhere that the Skrulls were somehow involved as CM and X-Men were planning on using both around the same? Or that Fox had rights to some major Skrull figures while Marvel had everyone else... I gotta look for that article.

 

[Charzhin0]

Fox has exclusive rights to super skrull I think

 

[icekid]

I also thought I read somewhere that the Skrulls were somehow involved as CM and X-Men were planning on using both around the same? Or that Fox had rights to some major Skrull figures while Marvel had everyone else... I gotta look for that article.

Skrulls were never involved. That came from the fact that the aliens have the ability to disguise themselves as humans using...slightly and intentionally ambiguous methods...and somehow it was misinterpreted as shapeshifting which lead to the belief that they were going to use the Skrulls and their Queen, Veranke. That was never in the cards. Also, they only had the rights to Super Skrulls via the F4 rights.

 

[Limonade]

Skrulls were never involved. That came from the fact that the aliens have the ability to disguise themselves as humans using...methods...and somehow it was misinterpreted as shapeshifting which lead to the belief that they were going to use the Skrulls and their Queen, Veranke. That was never in the cards. Also, they only had the rights to Super Skrulls via the F4 rights.

Well never say never. Not unless you are a part of the production of the films in question.

Regardless, the article appeared prior to the Disney acquisition talks--most likely in pre-production or during production days, that I know for sure.

 

[Frankeh]

I would think that we would have had to focus on the fact that theres an entire empire made of multiple civilizations that no one had even a hint of an idea existed and kind of can't downplay that but also can't push Jean's story, her personal descent to darkness (which is what it was published as! Not a pocssssion or battle between two entities!) to a subplot once again so that would need some fleshing out. It's also why I think its silly that there are some complaining as to why the aliens aren't the Shi'ar. How about we all get together, stop and think on what those two introductions in 120 minutes would look like...

So you're saying we should be glad the Shi'ar aren't being wasted in this movie?

Because so far nothing has been interesting to me about these replacement aliens.

 

[Frankeh]

I also thought I read somewhere that the Skrulls were somehow involved as CM and X-Men were planning on using both around the same? Or that Fox had rights to some major Skrull figures while Marvel had everyone else... I gotta look for that article.

I remember that rumor too.

The problem is if you're getting cold feet about introducing full on alien civilizations, why not commit to keeping Dark Phoenix grounded (like Kinberg says he is doing) and make it about Jean and her team in conflict and a secret society trying to gain control over her and failing?

Instead, he forced aliens into this movie anyway and by all accounts they don't seem very dimensional.

 

[X-Maniac]

But there weren’t even seeds planted for a future film the first go around before reshoots. There wasn’t going to be a Dark Phoenix sequel that would once again expand upon the Dark Phoenix story back then in which they, as you say, plan out each film as if it’s their last except before that until the axe came down, it was plan out production as its their last. Now in a post merger world, they are literally using the term last film, no hypotheticals.

Sidenote, just to make this perfectly clear, when the word two parter was used it was as inDeathly Hallows and Mockingjay, not X1 and X2. No actor confusion around contracted films vs actual films. Hence the longer than usual shoot schedule that the production company, not the studio, planned out, secured and put together costs for. Studios don’t handle that and they could care less just as long as you spend their money wisely and as cheap as possible, in fox’s case (for everything). I would have assumed the 2nd that never came to realization would have been aimed for its current release window, again following the path of the mention franchise two parters.

So, what I think you are trying to say is that what we are getting is the two parts compressed into one film?

Not that we are getting only the first part with a modified third act/ending because there is no second part?

 

[SumT]

Spoiler

You're completely right! Alas, it's a centerpiece of their dynamic.



Correct. This time he starts out on the opposition and ends on his side.

Is that an actual Spoiler????????

 

[icekid]

Well never say never. Not unless you are a part of the production of the films in question.

Regardless, the article appeared prior to the Disney acquisition talks--most likely in pre-production or during production days, that I know for sure.

I'm the only one on the boards with first hand knowledge of the matter so yes, I can say never.

Also yes, that article does exist and it was from a comic scoop site, but the iteration of the character back then has nothing to do with the Disney acquisition. also EW used the term otherworldy shapeshifter where the adjectives they were given were a bit more vague but they chose that because it sounded more comic bookey. Also that article features interviews from all over the production timeline, such as the article focusing on Chastain's character featuring words from Kinberg during the start post production and words from Chastain earlier in the summer.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

I would think that we would have had to focus on the fact that theres an entire empire made of multiple civilizations that no one had even a hint of an idea existed and kind of can't downplay that but also can't push Jean's story, her personal descent to darkness (which is what it was published as! Not a pocssssion or battle between two entities!) to a subplot once again so that would need some fleshing out. It's also why I think its silly that there are some complaining as to why the aliens aren't the Shi'ar. How about we all get together, stop and think on what those two introductions in 120 minutes would look like...

Oh, I agree. And “possession” might not have been the best word, but I was trying to indicate that there is something living that entered her... you know, besides Cyclops.

 

[X-Maniac]

I remember that rumor too.

The problem is if you're getting cold feet about introducing full on alien civilizations, why not commit to keeping Dark Phoenix grounded (like Kinberg says he is doing) and make it about Jean and her team in conflict and a secret society trying to gain control over her and failing?

Instead, he forced aliens into this movie anyway and by all accounts they don't seem very dimensional.

I think Kinberg was obviously trying to make the story more cosmic.

But then the two-parter became one film. And, suddenly, Chastain tweeted she was not playing Lilandra - which tends to suggest she was indeed originally cast in that role.

However, the Shi'ar aren't alien 'shapeshifters' who carry out a Secret Invasion. So I can't quite figure out how they were going to be introduced in the originally scripted two-parter.

 

[icekid]

So, what I think you are trying to say is that what we are getting is the two parts compressed into one film?

Not that we are getting only the first part with a modified third act/ending because there is no second part?

First option with some meat trimmed that would have made the original and scrapped third act more impactful (hence why it failed miserably to connect) and some different roles/characters for some people that would have been tied to the world building of what was cut. The core of it was always Jean and her story so that is ultimately what we're getting.

So you're saying we should be glad the Shi'ar aren't being wasted in this movie?

Well it's not titled X-Men: Shi'ar & Other Beings Exist Now!, it's Dark Phoenix. They arent supposed to be the selling point in her story.

 

[icekid]

I think Kinberg was obviously trying to make the story more cosmic.

But then the two-parter became one film. And, suddenly, Chastain tweeted she was not playing Lilandra - which tends to suggest she was indeed originally cast in that role.

However, the Shi'ar aren't alien 'shapeshifters' who carry out a Secret Invasion. So I can't quite figure out how they were going to be introduced in the originally scripted two-parter.

There was no invasion, let alone any secret, in the two-parter. That was added during the contraction of two into one while keeping elements of the universal feel in the only way FOX knows how to mandate more of (hint hint they had a hit but bombed the sequel 20 years later), hence some roles had changed. I believe they had different means of blending in, probably technologically base, so the infiltration would presumably just have been a means to investigate further. Some opposition had changed. To quote Chastain via EW

Explains the actress, “Simon and I first sat down in Montreal and we were talking about the character and I said ‘I don’t know if this is right but I keep thinking of the vet who tells you you need to put your dog down. There’s something very clinical about it.’ He loved it and we kind of expanded the character from there.”

What is she putting down, or should i say sentencing to death, in the originally shot version or what we're getting? It's been abundantly clear that she, as she is now, wants Jean for her own purposes. I could think of someone that if we had just been introduced to, interacted with and then had to make the tough decision for the universe's survival, would come across as who she's describing...

 

[GuestStar2004]

But there weren’t even seeds planted for a future film the first go around before reshoots. There wasn’t going to be a Dark Phoenix sequel that would once again expand upon the Dark Phoenix story back then in which they, as you say, plan out each film as if it’s their last except before that until the axe came down, it was plan out production as its their last. Now in a post merger world, they are literally using the term last film, no hypotheticals.

Well really no one involved has called this the last movie. alot of people way outside of any knowledge have assumed its the last movie and that everyone started packing their bags months ago. but no one involved really is talking about this like its a final film.

But then alot of these films have ended in a way that you could just close the door on if so wish, but also possibly continue is so wished.

The talked about current ending for DP is still fairly wide open that you could easily fit another sequel in there. and i suppose it would have been stupid to end the franchise, then have the deal fall through and be back to square one.

 

[The Original Bamfer]

Yeah, it seems like they shifted her from Lilandra to a female, alien Mastermind.

 

[Frankeh]

Well it's not titled X-Men: Shi'ar & Other Beings Exist Now!, it's Dark Phoenix. They arent supposed to be the selling point in her story.

Well then why include Chastain and her alien cohorts at all then, icekid?

That's the question I'm asking.

And if you ask me, characters who were involved in the Dark Phoenix Saga would be a selling point for a movie based on that. But I digress.