Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread - - - - - - Part 15

[X-Maniac]

Kinberg: "Early on, I felt like I really wanted to focus the movie on our main characters and I really wanted to focus upon Jean's struggle. I wanted the movie to feel grounded and I wanted it to feel emotional and intimate, and not have too many things that would distract or take away from Jean's evolution, deevolution, struggle, final decision in this film. I wanted that arc to feel like it was a really emotional experience for the audience. And so things like the Hellfire Club [and the] Shi'ar Empire felt as though they were such huge subplots or plots from the original saga that they could potentially take away from the focus on Jean and the X-Men. And so instead of doing Lilandra as a character, which would require the relationship with Charles and all what comes with that, I made Jessica's character sort of an amalgam of different alien characters that are part of, in a way, resembling this Shi'ar storyline but not going all the way there."

Why X-Men: Dark Phoenix Cuts So Much of the Comic Story

Curious how he doesn't mention the story had to squished into one movie and all those things had to be jettisoned.

Suddenly the Hellfire Club and Shi'ar are such terrible things that take away from the focus on Jean and the X-Men, lol...

The spin is strong in this one.

 

[Charzhin0]

.

My only wish for Dark Phoenix is a score above 60%, a "fresh" score.

I would take that too but keep in mind in the age of obsessive fandom cultists; anything below 85% would be seen as a terrible movie. Which is obviously not true at all because most people dont know what aggregate scoring or scaling is. Look at Apocalypse and MoS. Both got around 50% which should tell anyone with basic maths skills that in general, half liked the movie and half didnt. But the dominant view you see is "both sucked" only because they have a rotten splat

 

[Charzhin0]

I dont know if its been mentioned here but i was watching a catch up episode of John campea and one of the questions was about Kinberg apparently hinting at more permanent deaths of Xmen character on top of Mistique.



They speculated that Beast and Magneto would die in dark phoenix as well

 

[icekid]

Curious how he doesn't mention the story had to squished into one movie and all those things had to be jettisoned.

Suddenly the Hellfire Club and Shi'ar are such terrible things that take away from the focus on Jean and the X-Men, lol...

The spin is strong in this one.

Same way they’re not describing what happened in the original climax. It’s like Apple talking about features they couldn’t get perfected in the phone you’re about to buy so they took it out. “Oh your phone could have been made out of nanomachines that take the form of anything you wanted, but we couldn’t figure out how to make that affordable, so here’s a third camera”.

You’re selling your current product.

And yes, when it’s a 2 hour movie and you’re focusing on doing justice to jean’s story, if a fantastical giant extraterrestrial empire made up of multiple species with a complex moral swing on ‘do we kill the woman who saved us because she can destroy the universe or do we trust our new friends out of good faith’, it does distract from Jean’s story-again- in a single 2 hour film where they have never been introduced in this universe. It would make Jean a McGuffin rather than a character in a story about aliens. That’s basically what TLS did. It’ll be like if she was the weapon in Star Trek Beyond.

 

[hurrikane2]

I really don’t see how or why people can’t comprehend that Kinberg had to condense the storyline to one movie..you can’t have all these characters in one movie..who’s fault is that??? Now that’s the real question...

 

[X-Maniac]

I really don’t see how or why people can’t comprehend that Kinberg had to condense the storyline to one movie..you can’t have all these characters in one movie..who’s fault is that??? Now that’s the real question...

It's nothing to do with whether 'people' can 'comprehend' it.

Kinberg himself doesn't admit that's what went on. So either it was never a two-parter and people are lying to make Kinberg the victim if this film flops, or Kinberg is lying and doesn't want to mention he was forced to trim stuff. Either way, we are not getting the truth from one direction or another...

But even if this had been a two-parter, i have no confidence that they could pull off Shi'ar and cosmic stuff properly. Not to the standards we expect from CBMs these days.

 

[EnDz0n3]

I really don’t see how or why people can’t comprehend that Kinberg had to condense the storyline to one movie..you can’t have all these characters in one movie..who’s fault is that??? Now that’s the real question...

And yet he still found a role that somehow connected Magneto, Mystique, an amalgamated character in Chastain, unnamed aliens, Red Lotus, and Selene to Jean. How were these characters part of Jean’s story and why are they important to telling that story when elements from the comic book arc this is based on couldn’t?

I don’t know if people can’t comprehend. I think it’s more a case of, pointing out Kinberg’s skill set, or lack thereof.

 

[icekid]

Kinberg himself doesn't admit that's what went on. So either it was never a two-parter and people are lying to make Kinberg the victim if this film flops, or Kinberg is lying and doesn't want to mention he was forced to trim stuff. Either way, we are not getting the truth from one direction or another...

But even if this had been a two-parter, i have no confidence that they could pull off Shi'ar and cosmic stuff properly. Not to the standards we expect from CBMs these days.

I get where you’re coming from completely but I honestly cant believe you’re expecting Kinberg to admit to anything regarding the would-have-been 2-part saga.

He won’t admit it was a two parter or anything outside of what is being released until much after this has been released.

He’s selling this movie.
He’s doing promotional interviews for this movie.

Why on earth would he ever say anything that would even hint that you, the paying customer, could have had a better product. It’s basic business.

It’s like going ordering 6 piece chicken nuggets and getting a 6 piece chicken nuggets in your bag but before you leave the cashier tells you that earlier she put 10 in there for someone else but you’re not getting that.

It’s like a friend buying you a pack of shirts for the holidays and then telling you “I had intended on buying you a car but then I remembered that one you borrowed a shirt of mine so I felt like you needed these”.

 

[X-Maniac]

I get where you’re coming from completely but I honestly cant believe you’re expecting Kinberg to admit to anything regarding the would-have-been 2-part saga.

He won’t admit it was a two parter or anything outside of what is being released until much after this has been released.

He’s selling this movie.
He’s doing promotional interviews for this movie.

Why on earth would he ever say anything that would even hint that you, the paying customer, could have had a better product. It’s basic business.

It’s like going ordering 6 piece chicken nuggets and getting a 6 piece chicken nuggets in your bag but before you leave the cashier tells you that earlier she put 10 in there for someone else but you’re not getting that.

It’s like a friend buying you a pack of shirts for the holidays and then telling you “I had intended on buying you a car but then I remembered that one you borrowed a shirt of mine so I felt like you needed these”.

Fair points but he could have phrased it differently so it wasn't such a flat-out lie...

 

[icekid]

Fair points but he could have phrased it differently so it wasn't such a flat-out lie...

I don’t see anything he said as having been a lie. When he was retooling it for this single movie, those exact things he mentioned had to be retooled for the reasons he said, although Hellfire was never in the picture. Characters were reworked into what they are now for the exact reasons he said. No lies detected.

 

[X-Maniac]

I don’t see anything he said as having been a lie. When he was retooling it for this single movie, those exact things he mentioned had to be retooled for the reasons he said, although Hellfire was never in the picture. Characters were reworked into what they are now for the exact reasons he said. No lies detected.

He's making it seem a purely artistic/creative choice, knowing what we know on here that seems rather disingenuous...

 

[icekid]

Sure, he uses the words “early on” but only in the context of Jean and her story, that’s completely true, which is why those elements would have served better justice if they were introduced and spread over two films with the majority focus being on Jean for both.

In a now 4 hour saga, if you dedicate an hour and a half of that to those other elements, you succeed at doing both!

He's making it seem a purely artistic/creative choice, knowing what we know on here that seems rather disingenuous...

I don’t see his statements as that. He’s talking about the now, not the “then”, bending the truth and omitting the entire topic are two different things.

Like if I said I fell on my way back home and say I fell on my way back home because I got hit by a car, I didn’t lie in the first statement, because I did fall. I just omitted talking about the car.

With his limitations, he did have to get creative and he did have to justify those creations with the reasons he did.

 

[icekid]

Honestly @X-Maniac the best case to hear Simon talk about anything relating to the two parter is if he pulls a Snyder and starts revealing bits and pieces of it over the course of a few years. I would be very surprised if we ever see anything from the original filmed 3rd act! He’s not shy from joining forums and doing Q&A’s, he’s done them for TLS before that was released... it would just have to be worth it to him, he has another movie to start working on as director right after this one is said and done.


Or if Chastain starts talking because nearly everything she has said is about her old character lol

 

[Erik Lensherr]

 

[Erik Lensherr]

Iconic

 

[marvintabacon]

 

[psylockolussus]

At the end of the day, I'm only going to care about my own opinion of the film, but a rotten score does mean trouble.

The utterly charmless, dull as dishwater Ant-Man films are "scored" equally with Infinity War on Rotten Tomatoes. The site can only be gospel for people who watch very, very few films.

The Ant-Man movies aren't great but they aren't dull.

 

[psylockolussus]

I would take that too but keep in mind in the age of obsessive fandom cultists; anything below 85% would be seen as a terrible movie. Which is obviously not true at all because most people dont know what aggregate scoring or scaling is. Look at Apocalypse and MoS. Both got around 50% which should tell anyone with basic maths skills that in general, half liked the movie and half didnt. But the dominant view you see is "both sucked" only because they have a rotten splat

Around 50% isn't a passing grade though. You get a grade of less than 70% in school or a job supervisor/s gave you an approval score of 55%, that wouldn't be okay. Below 60% is given a rotten splat for a reason. A score around 50s also suggests a mixed reaction and seriously who wants a mixed reaction over a positive reaction from critics? Rotten tomatoes is a good site to get a consensus, or for people who are unsure about a film and looking for consensus if something is worth seeing or not. But if I really want to see a film, I would see it regardless of the RT rating but of course I don't ignore that RT can reflect a quality / perception of a film, even if I don't agree with it.

 

[MeralysMystica]

Do you all know that RT's score doesn't mean how good is a movie?
It means how many critics/people thinks a movie is average at least.

There is an huge difference.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I dont know if its been mentioned here but i was watching a catch up episode of John campea and one of the questions was about Kinberg apparently hinting at more permanent deaths of Xmen character on top of Mistique.



They speculated that Beast and Magneto would die in dark phoenix as well

This thumbnail reminds me of the Justice League TAS intro when the founding 7 are standing together.

 

[psylockolussus]

Do you all know that RT's score doesn't mean how good is a movie?
It means how many critics/people thinks a movie is average at least.

There is an huge difference.

Its an approval rating. I know the difference between the approval rating and the average score, but most people in rt look at the approval rating since its the one they've highlighted. Films can get 80% with an average score of below 7.

 

[Justice4#Rouge]

I dont know if its been mentioned here but i was watching a catch up episode of John campea and one of the questions was about Kinberg apparently hinting at more permanent deaths of Xmen character on top of Mistique.



They speculated that Beast and Magneto would die in dark phoenix as well

Spoiler

Aside from Mystique being “offed”, there’s certainly civilian and alien casualties, but there are really only 2 of kind of “significant” deaths in the context of THIS film.. and I won’t spoil lol.... Also Robert must really have it out for Kinberg, I mean he knows Simon, so whatever went down .....

 

[MeralysMystica]

Its an approval rating. I know the difference between the approval rating and the average score, but most people in rt look at the approval rating since its the one they've highlighted. Films can get 80% with an average score of below 7.

So it can be that a movie with 50 could be better than a movie with 100. (yes it's an extreme situation).
There are different critics with different taste on movies, so, in my opinion, we would take critics we like more and use them like litmus paper (i don't know if in english has the same metaphorical meaning )

 

[GuestStar2004]

 

[NotNickFury]

I...want that Plasma Ball. Probably wouldn't do anything with it, but it'd be nice to have it take up space in my room.