Dark Phoenix X-Men: Dark Phoenix News and Speculation Thread

[BMM]

Personally, I prefer using Deadpool as an exemple instead of X2. I love X2 and DoFP, and I think X2 is the best X-Men movie, but it also suffered from wasting characters, even though it was the best of the series in terms of balancing screentime. And wasting beloved characters is the number 1 reason I despise Apocalypse so much.

After all those years, they are aware the fans don't want their beloved characters wasted. Apocalypse proved they know that, they just don't care.

I wouldn't. Deadpool is a solo movie balancing far fewer beloved characters than an ensemble X-Men movie ever will. Even then, a character like Angel Dust was just there for little more than muscle.

 

[2kt09]

I want the X-Men movies to be as good as Deadpool. You know, that movie where Colossus had more personality then 85% of the characters seen in 16 years of X-Men movies.

Or as good as Logan.

Or Legion.

In all 3 of those cases, you have the single main lead constantly bouncing off of everyone else with the occasional side development.

 

[jaymes_e06]

I feel like he was primarily responsible for the final third, ie the worst bit by far.

I know your being facetious but he created the outline for the story.

 

[BeholdMe]

Actually Snyder was the one who helped write WW. Some try to minimize his role in but from day one he was an active part of the production and he and his wife produced WW too.

I do understand to be cautiously optimistic but the doom and gloom is a bit excessive in this thread.

Snyder may have gave some insight but Allan Heinberg gets the most credit for putting that story together. They gave more creative control to Patty as well so it wasnt like Bvs or SS it was a different approach to the movie that worked and won audiences over not Snyders approach. That movie worked because of Patty directing and Allan writing the bulk. I dont see doom and gloom by most people in the thread though some are overly dramatic, I only see people not jumping to love it because they get disappointed so keeping their excitement low so they wont be upset Who knows how the movie will be when it does come out it really can suprprise everyone. Im not excited for DP right now but once I see a trailer ill see how its going to play out.

 

[magneto23]

Are you people really ok with a sub-50% Rottentomatoes score?

Reviews aren't like the elections where one candidate can get 49% and the other 50% and the latter wins LOL

Definitely NOT ok with sub 50% scores. Don't know why that's even a question. You describe the critical reception of Apocalypse with a word like eviscerated. Think that's just going way overboard with it when the reviews were, in reality, fairly mixed. That's all.

 

[BeholdMe]

i'd argue the attempt was actually to give us something different to what was familiar with Wolverine.

My point is they got us invested in the characters that were used, they made us care. Logan was a loose translation of OML so they didnt just make everything up.

Personally, I prefer using Deadpool as an exemple instead of X2. I love X2 and DoFP, and I think X2 is the best X-Men movie, but it also suffered from wasting characters, even though it was the best of the series in terms of balancing screentime. And wasting beloved characters is the number 1 reason I despise Apocalypse so much.

After all those years, they are aware the fans don't want their beloved characters wasted. Apocalypse proved they know that, they just don't care.

I truly hope this changes with DP they shouldnt want to keep making the same mistakes over and over again. I hope trailer 1 blows us away, and I hope we get something from comic con.

 

[def28]

Definitely NOT ok with sub 50% scores. Don't know why that's even a question. You describe the critical reception of Apocalypse with a word like eviscerated. Think that's just going way overboard with it when the reviews were, in reality, fairly mixed. That's all.

Look at Last Stand's rep though and that film actually has a higher review.

Going from DOFP to XMA dropped down the series reputation by quite a bit. There may be a section of people who say far too many are being hard on the film, but pretty much the same thing happened going from X2 to X3. The audience RT scores are very close as well. With X3 though, the domestic audience still showed up in high numbers. Audience interest just dropped too much with XMA. Not to the point of no more films, but to the point where this can't happen again.

This film has to be good, another 48% won't turn things around. Neither will a 58% for that matter like with X3. For wom and reviews not to give this a horrible wrap it needs to come in at least in the 70s. I know there are those who will claim not to care about any of that in defense of a film and series they like, but it will mean this X-Men crew is done with one more box office drop and low scores like XMA.

 

[Lip]

I wouldn't. Deadpool is a solo movie balancing far fewer beloved characters than an ensemble X-Men movie ever will. Even then, a character like Angel Dust was just there for little more than muscle.

I understand your point but I wasn't using Deadpool as an exemple of balancing screentime. I didn't mention that in any moment. I said it was the movie where Colossus had more personality than 85% of the characters we've seen in 16 years of X-Men movies.

X-men movies are ensemble, that's absolutely right, but does that mean we'll continually see beloved characters being used as silent henchment, being killed off (some off screen), and wasted for power display? Emma, Shawn, Psylocke, Bishop, Jubilee, Angel, Banshee, Apocalypse, Havok... the list goes on.

So I don't think we can justify the lack of personality of 85% of the characters in the X-Men movies saying "well they're not solo heroes..."

And Angel Dust is another example of why I rather use Deadpool as reference. If you need a character just for "muscle", just for power display, so you can use the rest of your precious screentime to develop the characters that actually matters, Angel Dust is the perfect character to use. If you want to waste characters, chose from a D-List.

In all 3 of those cases, you have the single main lead constantly bouncing off of everyone else with the occasional side development.

Yes, they are. And Legion is a TV Show, which has a completely different structure then a movie. As I said, I want the X-Men movies to be as good as those three cases, which means I was using them as reference of quality. Reference from FOX. Because I talking about how funny it is when you criticize a decision made for an X-Men movie and you immediately labeled as a MCU fanboy.

 

[EnDz0n3]

Definitely NOT ok with sub 50% scores. Don't know why that's even a question.

It's an open question to the group I quoted when someone on your *side* was making fun of my wanting to have better reviews for the next film, saying that I have "higher standards." As if having higher standards is somehow a bad thing.

You describe the critical reception of Apocalypse with a word like eviscerated. Think that's just going way overboard with it when the reviews were, in reality, fairly mixed. That's all.

Again rottentomatoes score doesn't work that way, you can't have a 50% and think that somehow it's an even half and half love to hate ratio.

60% is the passing grade. 50% doesn't cut it. Much more so, 48%.

But maybe I just have higher standards...

 

[jaymes_e06]

I feel like he was primarily responsible for the final third, ie the worst bit by far.

Snyder may have gave some insight but Allan Heinberg gets the most credit for putting that story together. They gave more creative control to Patty as well so it wasnt like Bvs or SS it was a different approach to the movie that worked and won audiences over not Snyders approach. That movie worked because of Patty directing and Allan writing the bulk. I dont see doom and gloom by most people in the thread though some are overly dramatic, I only see people not jumping to love it because they get disappointed so keeping their excitement low so they wont be upset Who knows how the movie will be when it does come out it really can suprprise everyone. Im not excited for DP right now but once I see a trailer ill see how its going to play out.

You're both underselliing his involvement as most do. He was just as involved as he was with SS (which was NOT directed by Snyder btw) if not more because he made a full outline overview of the script. So give credit where it's due.

He might be overly bombastic (not Micael Bay levels but still) he does have good ideas and an eye for action and spectacle. Patty is brilliant but she definitely took his guidance on those strengths I just listed and also the screenwriter was instrumental in bringing it all home.

I understand the hesitation as I have 0 faith in Kinberg but we've not been given nearly enough to form an opinion so I'm not just going to complain about the last film until Dark Phoenix's trailer comes out. Seems unnecessary.

 

[marvelrobbins]

You're both underselliing his involvement as most do. He was just as involved as he was with SS (which was NOT directed by Snyder btw) if not more because he made a full outline overview of the script. So give credit where it's due.

He might be overly bombastic (not Micael Bay levels but still) he does have good ideas and an eye for action and spectacle. Patty is brilliant but she definitely took his guidance on those strengths I just listed and also the screenwriter was instrumental in bringing it all home.

I understand the hesitation as I have 0 faith in Kinberg but we've not been given nearly enough to form an opinion so I'm not just going to complain about the last film until Dark Phoenix's trailer comes out. Seems unnecessary.

Snyder's strength rather you love or hate his dc films are in visuals.he by all acounts was involved in devolping story and script.it's same situation as first class.there people refuse to accept bryan singer was heavily involved in devolping story and helping to guide film just like some don't want to admit snyder was involved with wonder woman.

with this film plenty of reason not to be confident in kinberg but it's not a guranteed disappoitment.especilly since we have very little information.we shall see next year if kinberg proves skeptism wrong or if he surprises
people.

 

[Link]

So, Comic Con this week. Imagine we'll get anything yet, or just next year?

 

[BeholdMe]

You're both underselliing his involvement as most do. He was just as involved as he was with SS (which was NOT directed by Snyder btw) if not more because he made a full outline overview of the script. So give credit where it's due.

He might be overly bombastic (not Micael Bay levels but still) he does have good ideas and an eye for action and spectacle. Patty is brilliant but she definitely took his guidance on those strengths I just listed and also the screenwriter was instrumental in bringing it all home.

I understand the hesitation as I have 0 faith in Kinberg but we've not been given nearly enough to form an opinion so I'm not just going to complain about the last film until Dark Phoenix's trailer comes out. Seems unnecessary.

He was involved but the guy I named who did most of it. They took a chance and let Jenkins do more, Snyder may have been the overseer but they dont always follow him to a tee he gave insight but that was Jenkins and Heinberg's baby, he played a major role in the script that's were the credit lies for WW. He wasnt as involved as he was for SS which people felt were two very different movies he gave WW a bit more leeway. Also though Im not excited for DP I am waiting for that first trailer to see if it sways me, Ive stated its to early to have a meltdown lol not knowing much yet or seeing much of anything. I do hope Kinberg proves me wrong with Dark Phoenix as WW did after Bvs and SS.

 

[BeholdMe]

So, Comic Con this week. Imagine we'll get anything yet, or just next year?

Keeping my fingers crossed that we get something with at least Storm and Nightcrawler.

 

[Smilodon]

So, Comic Con this week. Imagine we'll get anything yet, or just next year?

Nothing substantial for this film or New Mutants (DP2 is another story), but everyone will be there though. There's a bunch of other panels that week like Avengers, GoT, Stranger Things, Ready Player One, so hopefully everyone comes out for the Fox stage and we get an awesome group pic. (and maybe announcing another project or two)

 

[def28]

Yeah, hoping for some photo reveals and some date announcements like X-Force.

Not expecting much as far as footage.

 

[Smilodon]

An update on X-Force would be great. Maybe Carnahan will show up too. But if we get any new projects, it'll probably be Gambit, XF and X-23. Even without tons of footage, Ryan, TJ, McAvoy etc. all being on stage together will be a riot for the Hall H crowd

 

[def28]

An update on X-Force would be great. Maybe Carnahan will show up too. But if we get any new projects, it'll probably be Gambit, XF and X-23.

Agreed, any update on Gambit would be nice.

 

[Frankeh]

So, Comic Con this week. Imagine we'll get anything yet, or just next year?

They should throw us a bone at least

 

[kineticist]

I'm betting on a logo and some concept art

 

[magneto23]

Again rottentomatoes score doesn't work that way, you can't have a 50% and think that somehow it's an even half and half love to hate ratio.

60% is the passing grade. 50% doesn't cut it. Much more so, 48%.

But maybe I just have higher standards...

Your standards are fine. We all want better. Just wondering where the lines are here. When does a film become "eviscerated "? Anything below 60%? 50%?

 

[EnDz0n3]

When a number of reviewers, even high profile ones, say it's the worst X-men movie. Yes even worst than X3, they say.

To me that's being "eviscerated by critics."

 

[jaymes_e06]

When a number of reviewers, even high profile ones, say it's the worst X-men movie. Yes even worst than X3, they say.

To me that's being "eviscerated by critics."

Fair enough... your saying that the barometer is higher for X-Men movies? I can see that.

 

[jaymes_e06]

He was involved but the guy I named who did most of it. They took a chance and let Jenkins do more, Snyder may have been the overseer but they dont always follow him to a tee he gave insight but that was Jenkins and Heinberg's baby, he played a major role in the script that's were the credit lies for WW. He wasnt as involved as he was for SS which people felt were two very different movies he gave WW a bit more leeway. Also though Im not excited for DP I am waiting for that first trailer to see if it sways me, Ive stated its to early to have a meltdown lol not knowing much yet or seeing much of anything. I do hope Kinberg proves me wrong with Dark Phoenix as WW did after Bvs and SS.

No you're doing it again he was just as involved as he was with SS even moreso maybe. It was reported he ghost directed or helped many of the action scenes or at least gave up his second unit director to help her. Patty said herself she met with him many times trying to perfect the story treatment.

Everything else I agree with you 100% on though. I hope Dark Phoenix is Kinbergs chance to prove he's not a hack. I doubt it but who knows at this point?

 

[fobi]

Did they release the first 6-7 minutes of Apocalypse like they did with DOFP? I remember there being a lot of positive feedback/anticipation for DOFP when they did. I think it'll help if they try to release a strong few minutes of footage (not too spoilerly) to help with DP.