Sequels X-Men Sequel - Part 5

[GuestStar2004]

When Brett Ratner came onboard, he openly
admitted he had little knowledge of the X-Men mythos

What ratner said that?

I remember ratner did a video thing with jackie chan that might still be on Youtube where he claimed he had read all the comics.

 

[GuestStar2004]

No, not all mutants are dead. Their population has been gradually culled thanks to Rice, but Xavier only killed 7 people, and only several of those were the X-Men. So mutants definitely do exist, and there's lots of wiggle room in terms of saying who was killed by Xavier.

Its a very complicated idea because its very clear that no X-Men are around in Logan and with the whole comics thing and that Xavier and Logan being alone it just adds to the idea that they don't exist anymore.

So it creates many questions like why would the left over X-Men just disband, why couldn't logan keep in contact with them, what happened to the mansion, why is there no effort to try and find them, and i have a feeling Mangold will not wanna explain any of this stuff because its already fairly complex as it is and I wouldn't be shocked if Mangold originally had it in mind that it would be all of the X-Men that were killed.

 

[marvelrobbins]

Its a very complicated idea because its very clear that no X-Men are around in Logan and with the whole comics thing and that Xavier and Logan being alone it just adds to the idea that they don't exist anymore.

So it creates many questions like why would the left over X-Men just disband, why couldn't logan keep in contact with them, what happened to the mansion, why is there no effort to try and find them, and i have a feeling Mangold will not wanna explain any of this stuff because its already fairly complex and I wouldn't be shocked if Mangold originally had it in mind that it would be all of the X-Men because it would add up.

Although i wouldn't be shocked if we got a sequel to Logan at some point.

it creates wiggle room for them.

regardless it may be a moot issue inless

1-fox does x-23 solo film
2-x-foce is set post logan with x-23 as member of x-force

 

[Cktopl33]

I still don't understand the criticism on Apocalypse. It was a beautiful film and very comic book-ish. It felt as an X-Men issue on celluloid.

Apocalypse didn't really play on any of the strengths it presented. You had this promise of a strong villain with strong ties to the biblical apocalypse imagery and an obsession with remaking the world. But the villain was primarily useless and uninteresting. Not enough time was spent on using any of his characteristics. He was not really pro-active. They could have played more on his manipulations tactics of his cult status. Tied more into the ancient alien angle. Fleshed out why he was so bent on remolding the world. Why does he have such a following? The four horsemen didn't really have much characterization or lines.

The plotting was muddled. It spent too much time trying to set up establishing the younger x-men, and not enough time focusing on the main complication of the plot. So nothing much was getting accomplished. The plot could have been far more exciting. There weren't any compelling twists.

They should have utilized more of Apocalypse powers to display why he was such a threat of biblical proportions. I would have preferred him as the pro-active cause for destruction. Much of the destruction at the end of the film was caused by Magneto. Apocalypse mostly stood with arms raised while making speeches. The destruction scenes in the movie had no emotional resonance because there were very little reaction shots to the destruction. You don't feel any fear of the cities inhabitants because you rarely see them which was why a lot of viewers got bored watching it. Even Havoc caused his own death by accident, dulling the emotional payoff. They didn't utilize any of Apocalypse shape shifting abilities or other power sets that are far more visually stimulating. I felt they should have used his size growing ability outside the mental plane and in a public setting such as a televised speech to include his shape-shifting power....perhaps built a whole action sequence around something like that where he actively causes destruction and chaos and sends his horsemen to do the same simultaneously. Would have been far more suspenseful. It would have saved the mind battles in the latter part of the film for something more visually creative & original.

The film was muddled in too much dust particle effects. The battle fights were not shot creatively. Even quicksilver's scene is still somewhat of a rehash of Day's of Future's Past and it also shifted the tone of the film so suddenly from suspense (Xavier's cerebral mind-control, kidnapping and then explosion)....to playful and whimsical as the mansion was in the process of exploding. The final battles are still less rewarding than the middle action sequences. And Wolverine's sequence had no reason to be in the film. The script simply got off focus of what its main plot complication was- Apocalypse. The movie might have looked nice, but it didn't have a compelling plot.

 

[Frankeh]

Being honest trying to fit Logan in either the original timeline or the fixed timeline is a headache.

If its part of the fixed post-DOFP timeline it doesnt make sense why Logan tells Xavier "Liberty Island was a long time ago" because there is no way the events of Apocalypse still lead to X1, X2 and X3. The Logan future doesn't lineup with the DOFP happy ending.

And if it is part of the original timeline it doesn't lineup with The Last Stand or the DOFP desolate future.

It is a "what if" epilogue in my view.

 

[Cktopl33]

What ratner said that?

I remember ratner did a video thing with jackie chan that might stil be on Youtube where he claimed he had read all the comics.

At the time he did the film, he relied on his writers. This is what he said in an interview StarPulse.com:

When I was a kid and used to watch that cartoon it was just fun. It wasn’t a deeper meaning for me when I watched the cartoon as a kid. I didn’t read the comic books but it doesn’t matter, the cartoon is the same *****ing thing. The most ridiculous statement I’ve read is — and of course I looked at the Internet after the movie came out — that I buried the franchise. If I buried the franchise how the ***** did they make a “Wolverine”? I mean, that’s ridiculous. And they’re making three other *****ing “X-Men” movies. Mine kept the franchise alive!

I kind of made rules for myself. I said to the writers — Zak Penn and Simon Kinberg — I only want to put scenes in this movie that exist from actual comic books. That way I protect myself. Even though I protect myself they’re still saying, “Why the ***** did [he] kill Professor X?” He died in five different comic books! People are crazy. “Brett Ratner killed Professor X! How dare he do that!” He died in five different comic books and came back!”

 

[GuestStar2004]

Apocalypse didn't really play on any of the strengths it presented. You had this promise of a strong villain with strong ties to the biblical apocalypse imagery and an obsession with remaking the world. But the villain was primarily useless and uninteresting. Not enough time was spent on using any of his characteristics. He was not really pro-active. They could have played more on his manipulations tactics of his cult status. Tied more into the ancient alien angle. Fleshed out why he was so bent on remolding the world. Why does he have such a following? The four horsemen didn't really have much characterization or lines.

There are characteristics but it just depends whether you are looking for characteristics or looking for certain characteristics.

 

[Frankeh]

The film was muddled in too much dust particle effects. The battle fights were not shot creatively. Even quicksilver's scene is still somewhat of a rehash of Day's of Future's Past and it also shifted the tone of the film so suddenly from suspense (Xavier's cerebral mind-control, kidnapping and then explosion)....to playful and whimsical as the mansion was in the process of exploding. The final battles are still less rewarding than the middle action sequences. And Wolverine's sequence had no reason to be in the film. The script simply got off focus of what its main plot complication was- Apocalypse. The movie might have looked nice, but it didn't have a compelling plot.

Imo the film should've been sent back to the drawing board because for starters visually it just wasn't interesting. And I agree with you that the final battle was shot and choreographed poorly. Even if DOFP's action was simple it was well staged and easy to follow. There were parts of the Psylocke fight that were chopped and you can't even tell where they fit. Same for the Cyclops/Storm fight.

However they could've compensated for the thin plot if the film had more action like Age of Ultron, which with all of its faults is still a thrill ride unlike Apocalypse which frankly is pretty boring until the third act where it actually comes to life.

 

[Cktopl33]

There are characteristics but it just depends whether you are looking for characteristics or looking for certain characteristics.

It's better to have distinct traits rather than too bland. He's supposedly ruthless and manipulative, but it felt weak to me. More like having your character do and say “whatever the author feels like today".

 

[Cktopl33]

Imo the film should've been sent back to the drawing board because for starters visually it just wasn't interesting. And I agree with you that the final battle was shot and choreographed poorly. Even if DOFP's action was simple it was well staged and easy to follow. There were parts of the Psylocke fight that were chopped and you can't even tell where they fit. Same for the Cyclops/Storm fight.

However they could've compensated for the thin plot if the film had more action like Age of Ultron, which with all of its faults is still a thrill ride unlike Apocalypse which frankly is pretty boring until the third act where it actually comes to life.

Even fake online scripts of the movie were more compelling than the actual film. I remember reading, which I was saddened to find wasn't the case in the movie, that Apocalypse would start out tailoring his voice to how he approaches his recruits as part of his manipulation tactics (he would approach storm a particular way in a specific voice as oppose to magneto or psylocke). So each horsemen experiences Apocalypse in a uniquely different way (not just as some hooded figure). At one point Apocalypse tries to approach Xavier in a particular way. It would eventually shift overtime, becoming otherworldly along with his appearance and powers more frightening, as his true intentions begin to emerge over the course of the film. I thought that would have been a fascinating take on the character through playing with cult manipulation.

 

[Frankeh]

I'll just leave this here.

(This is the header article on Mashable homepage. It's worth a read, definitely a lot of talking points that's been brought up on this board.)

The ten-year jumps between First Class, Days of Future Past, and Apocalypse turn out to be a lazy way to soft-reboot the series, so that each installment can hand-wave away whatever happened in the last installment and go about rehashing the same plot points all over again. The team needs to be rounded up again to fight some greater evil. Charles is so sure there is still good in Erik, only to be proven wrong. Et cetera, et cetera, rinse and repeat.

Bless this woman

 

[GuestStar2004]

I am guessing they wanted to continue playing with the idea that villains don't see themselves as the villain as there is alot more depth in the idea that the things you are doing is making the world into something greater then there is just being evil and destructive because you are the bad guy.

 

[X-Maniac]

Even fake online scripts of the movie were more compelling than the actual film. I remember reading, which I was saddened to find wasn't the case in the movie, that Apocalypse would start out tailoring his voice to how he approaches his recruits as part of his manipulation tactics (he would approach storm a particular way in a specific voice as oppose to magneto or psylocke). So each horsemen experiences Apocalypse in a uniquely different way (not just as some hooded figure). At one point Apocalypse tries to approach Xavier in a particular way. It would eventually shift overtime, becoming otherworldly along with his appearance and powers more frightening, as his true intentions begin to emerge over the course of the film. I thought that would have been a fascinating take on the character through playing with cult manipulation.

Some of the film's decisions follow a logical line.

If Apocalypse was all-powerful and capable of planetary-scale destruction, he wouldn't really need acolytes to be around him all the time.

Elemental mutants such as Magneto and Storm are the obvious choice for wreaking havoc on civilisation.

However, for Storm to become an X-Men member after huge destruction would be a stretch. So it makes sense for the previously (and largely) villainous Magneto to be the one who does the most damage to the world; in addition, his powers make that more possible due to tapping into the earth's magnetic field/core, whereas Storm's power is rarely (if ever) on a global scale.

Now, the film could have had Apocalypse possessing and totally controlling his followers. But then you have to find a way of that possession being broken. For them to come to their senses (at least, in the case of Storm and Magneto anyway) required it to be more a persuasive manipulative power than outright possession.

Nevertheless, the film has its faults - and lots of them. It's messy and - a bit like DoFP - verging on boring at some earlier parts before the climactic fight scenes.

I'm wondering how Magneto factors into X-Men: Dark Phoenix. In the comics, he has defeated her (in his lair beneath the Antarctic volcano he created what's known in physics as a 'magnetic bottle' for containing plasma energy) and also killed her (with a massive magnetic burst causing a fatal stroke). I suspect he will be using his powers to protect the X-Men in some way, but that's just an off-the-cuff guess. We shall see what they come up with.

 

[The Guard]

Watch Magneto show up with an asteroid/space station that the X-Men can go into space with.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Or it's a beta version of Asteroid M.

 

[2kt09]

At the time he did the film, he relied on his writers. This is what he said in an interview StarPulse.com:

These quotes are just the greatest ever.
Something about X-Men makes directors go beast mode.

 

[zenith16]

Comic Book Resources

1 hr ·

Feige Open to an Avengers, X-Men Movie Crossover
3 hours agoMOVIE NEWS

The Marvel Studios boss said the big screen pairing is unlikely, but you never know what the future has in store.Read more

Marvel Studios head Kevin Feige might have ruled out any potential team up between Fox and Marvel, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s given up on the idea of the the X-Men or the Fantastic Four ever meeting the Avengers in the Marvel Cinematic Universe entirely.




In a recent interview with Jeremy Lasky, co-founder of Perception, the animation and deign studio responsible for most of the technology animation in Marvel Studios films, as well as the studio’s recent logo redesign, Feige broached the possibility that characters not already in the MCU could eventually find their way there in the future.




RELATED: Kevin Feige Teases A ‘New Age’ of The Marvel Cinematic Universe




“My goal is to replicate the experience that, you know, comic book fans have reading the books up on the screen and we’ve been able to accomplish that beyond my wildest dreams over the last ten years,” Feige said.




The Marvel boss went to discuss one of the most notable long shot acquisitions in the studio’s history: a certain Wall-Crawler who has made his way into two mainline Avengers movies.




“Spidey in Civil War and in the upcoming Infinity War is yet another dream that I didn’t even dare to talk about publicly because I thought the odds of it were very slim,” Feige said. “So, no plans beyond that right now for any of the few remaining characters that aren’t already in the MCU, but I always say ‘never say never,’ who knows what can happen in the future?”




RELATED: There’s ‘No Weirdness’ Between Marvel and Fox, Feige Says
Arriving July 7, director Jon Watts’ Spider-Man: Homecoming stars Tom Holland, Michael Keaton, Zendaya, Donald Glover, Jacob Batalon, Laura Harrier, Tony Revolori, Tyne Daly, Bokeem Woodbine, Marisa Tomei and Robert Downey Jr.
TAGS: Kevin Feige, Marvel Cinematic Universe

source: CBR

 

[psylockolussus]

Hopefully once they reboot the X-Men! Keep hope alive!

 

[Ryan1210]

Apparently Kinberg is in Montreal. Hope DP begins pre-production soon.

 

[2kt09]

I change my mind again, DPx rolls off the tongue better.

 

[Cktopl33]

Some of the film's decisions follow a logical line.

If Apocalypse was all-powerful and capable of planetary-scale destruction, he wouldn't really need acolytes to be around him all the time.

Elemental mutants such as Magneto and Storm are the obvious choice for wreaking havoc on civilisation.

However, for Storm to become an X-Men member after huge destruction would be a stretch. So it makes sense for the previously (and largely) villainous Magneto to be the one who does the most damage to the world; in addition, his powers make that more possible due to tapping into the earth's magnetic field/core, whereas Storm's power is rarely (if ever) on a global scale.

So the decisions follow a logical line....only to meet a dead end. Apocalypse really had no need for any of them from the very beginning. Magneto basically became a silent henchmen (with a flat performance) in the third act as he floated above inside a bubble in deep thought. A waste of his character. They should have just had Apocalypse cause the bulk of the destruction in a more dynamic way.

If storm was held back just so she could be a member of the x-men team....then she shouldn't have been in the movie. She didn't really contribute much to the plot. She spent most of her time standing beside Apocalypse (and saying very little). She was to be his protector because he was in a "weak" state when he found her (according to Singer). Yet...she did anything but that. She failed the task when psylocke confronted them with a sword. Apocalypse was suppose to amplify her powers like Magneto. But she had much larger power display in the OT films. She could have had the ability to affect the weather and climate on a global scale. Aside from her obvious weather manipulation, she can even manipulate the air in a person's lungs. She can also control the pressure inside the human inner ear, an ability she uses to cause intense pain. Her normal power ability can already do all that without Apocalypse's enhancement: to include the ability to control cosmic storms, solar wind, ocean currents, AND electromagnetic fields. While in outer space, she is able to affect and manipulate the interstellar and intergalactic media. She can alter her visual perceptions so as to see the universe in terms of energy patterns, detecting the flow of kinetic, thermal and electromagnetic energy behind weather phenomena and can bend this energy to her will. It's laughable how little they utilized her or her powers. She simply shouldn't have been made a horsemen if they didn't want her to cause any damage.

The better route would have been to basically use completely different characters as horsemen (with main focus on Archangel of course) which would have avoided these story issues altogether.

 

[Frankeh]

I think after watching the movie Storm shouldn't have been a horseman.

I already have a tough time (probably) seeing the X-Men let Magneto help them in Dark Phoenix after comitting near-global genocide. He probably killed a lot of people even if the movie doesn't highlight any human casualties.

They should've been brainwashed so its easier to let their transgressions slide. They ended up being mostly mute anyway.

I know the X-Men in comics have allowed villains to join them, but still...

 

[psylockolussus]

I change my mind again, DPx rolls off the tongue better.

I prefer Dark Raven.

 

[CyclopsSummers]

That's exactly where Logan takes place - 2029. Six years after DOFP's epilogue. Given Logan's dialogue with Caliban in the beginning, Xavier probably had his breakdown about a year prior in 2028, forcing Logan to move him away to a secluded location.

FC (1963) -> DOFP (1973) -> Apocalypse (1983) -> DP (present day) -> DOFP (2023) -> LOGAN (2029).

DP's an interesting case because I was reading through the shooting script and Wade's overall journey takes over the course of 5 years, and the film doesn't say it's set in 2016. So there's probably some flexibility as to where DP is set, esp with their own time travel shenanigans about to begin with Cable's introduction.

Legion probably takes place near our present day as well, depending on how old Ptonomy is because his memories are basically the clue as to when Legion itself is set. (But I wouldn't worry about Legion's time period, since it deliberately has anachronistic elements).

Gifted is present day, in the post-DOFP timeline, with a younger Blink.

t: Dont forget this Wolverine we seen in DOPF epilogue new timeline didnt know events from new timeline, but basic timeline 1973-2023.
So Logan in 2029 only know events from Origins X1 X2 X3 TW DOFP dystopian

Deadpool, Legion, Gifted all set in present day

 

[GuestStar2004]

Michael Fassbender when asked whether he will be back.

Fassbender seemed to confirm that he’ll be reprising his role as Magneto when asked if we can expect to see him in any of these future X-Men movies:

“Possibly. Yeah, likely.”

http://collider.com/michael-fassbender-x-men-dark-phoenix/#images