Sequels X-Men Sequel - Part 7

The last team film X-MEN: Apocalypse was neither accurate or good. So what's the excuse with that?

Why does it need an excuse? Being more accurate wouldn't have automatically made it better. Heck, it's not like Apocalypse himself was that great of a villain in the comics in the first place.

I think the movie's main problem was that Singer was out of his element dealing with an over-the-top final boss type conflict like Apocalypse, rather than the more down-to-earth conflicts he clearly specializes at.
 
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Why does it even matter how close they follow the source material? All that should matter is whether or not the movie is good.

Because people that don't read comics say that the MARVEL CINEMATIC UNIVERSE follows the comics to the letter. And nothing that isn't like the CINEMATIC UNIVERSE is good. lmao


That said, I would like them to do the X-Men costumes at least similar to what you might find in the comics. Apocalypse half-way did that and I can't imagine they would go backwards with the art design.
 
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Don't get me wrong, I love the direction they were going with the costumes at the end of Apocalypse and I would love to see them continue in that direction, but that's because I think it looks good, not because it's more accurate to the comics.
 
Also, even though you're using the MCU as an example of a "good adaptation", I still always see tons of people on the internet rag on it for its inaccuracies. Everyone seems to have their own arbitrary line in the sand about what is "accurate enough" and it just seems like people are sabotaging their own ability to enjoy these films on their own merits

Yes this right here!
 
So I've been seeing on Instagram that Evan Peters is returning as Quicksilver and a young African American actor Lamar Johnson has been cast but in a unspecified role.
 
There's correlation, perhaps, but not causation. Logan and The Dark Knight are better than pretty much any MCU film and they aren't very accurate to the comics at all.

That's subjective. TDK and Logan had an unhindered directorial vision but I see plenty of criticism for them too.

Yes, a writer or director who doesn't care about a film is less likely to be accurate to the source material, but the problem in that equation is the fact that the writer or director doesn't care, not that they aren't being accurate.

Both are part of the same thing. If you're going to adapt something that is very popular, you should be finding out WHY it's so popular and then bring that to the screen.

Deadpool is a good example within the X-Men franchise, and that was made by a special FX guy no one had heard of. It just proves how faulty the main X-Men filmmaking infrastructure has become. Tim Miller wasn't part of that. The character looked like the character, behaved like the character and it worked.

The fact is that Miller 'got it', he realised what elements of Deadpool were loved by the existing fanbase and he brought those to the screen. It worked to such an extent that people overlooked a total revamp of Negasonic and embraced a rebooted Colossus.

If they're going to adapt the X-Men, they should be looking at why the X-Men comics work, why they've been going so long, why the animated series is so well regarded. Why buy the IP in the first place if you're just going to bastardise it? Keep the key roles and relationships in place. I don't see comics where Raven leads the X-Men and walks round as a bored blonde all day.

Also, even though you're using the MCU as an example of a "good adaptation", I still always see tons of people on the internet rag on it for its inaccuracies. Everyone seems to have their own arbitrary line in the sand about what is "accurate enough" and it just seems like people are sabotaging their own ability to enjoy these films on their own merits

The characters in the MCU look like the comic book counterparts. Costumes are there, the spirit of the source material is there. Marvel Studios has earned the trust of fans, so that it can make deviations and people don't really bother that much. It has good VFX, no dodgy wirework, great flying scenes, no confusing timeline and wonky continuity, no duplicates of characters appearing in its films (whereas we've had two Calibans, two Emma Frosts, the list goes on), no off-screen deaths wiping out classic characters (Emma, Banshee), no cramming in loads of cameos just to try to keep interest alive. The MCU films are about the characters stated in the title. GoTG centres on the Guardians, Avengers on the Avengers. They don't elevate someone else to front and centre and turn the rest into wallpaper.

If Marvel Studios made an X-Men film it would be about the X-Men, not about Raven, Xavier and Erik with the main X-Men as secondary characters somewhere off to the side.

You really don't get it, do you?
 
That's subjective. TDK and Logan had an unhindered directorial vision but I see plenty of criticism for them too.
Not to mention those movies nailed their heroes in the eyes of the people. If Logan has nothing to do with comics, how come people said it was the definitive, unfiltered portrayal of comic Logan on film? Clearly it did do right by that.

And that's the key issue with X-Men. Who thinks there has been a definitive portrayal of Cyclops on film? Or Storm? Or Rogue? Etc.
 
When you look at Logan it was probably sorta the opposite of deadpool in many ways.

They went in a direction that was not only abit distant from the comics and other movies but also created its own thing, which is pretty much what the X-Men movies have always done and Logan is currently the highest critical movie of the series yet.

*They didn't give him the costume because they didn't think it fit the tone

*X-Men comics apparently exist in universe, even though you probably could go nuts trying to work out the logic in that but i am sure it was done for symbolism if anything

*It was sort of an adaptation of old man logan but very different.

*Mangold decided the X-Men could die off screen to forward Wolverines story and that would be fine.

Technically the world Mangold created couldn't be further from the comics but i wonder whether critics praised the movie because they did wolverine right... or whether it was praised because it was a good movie that you could have replaced wolverine with anyone and still had it be a hit. (Film adaptation of the last of us)

You can bet that apart from Deadpool sequels and maybe X-Force most of the other movies will attempt to capture the tone of Logan.
 
because it was a good movie that you could have replaced wolverine with anyone and still had it be a hit. (Film adaptation of the last of us)
Oh, come on... Not only you don't have any proof of this, but to deny the impact the movie has because of knowing Xavier and Logan and their relationship since 2000 is asinine.
You can bet that apart from Deadpool sequels and maybe X-Force most of the other movies will attempt to capture the tone of Logan.
Based on your insider intel from 20th Century FOX?
 
Oh, come on... Not only you don't have any proof of this, but to deny the impact the movie has because of knowing Xavier and Logan and their relationship since 2000 is asinine.

Personally i cared more about the relationship between X23 and Logan then Xavier and Logan.

They were going for father and son dynamic with Xavier and logan and again you could probably make that work without knowing their past since the dynamic was fairly different what we seen before.

Based on your insider intel from 20th Century FOX?

Based on Logic.
 
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*They didn't give him the costume because they didn't think it fit the tone
That's the thing with the X-Men franchise. The costumes would never fit with the core tone of X-Men: hate and fear for being different, sacrifice, and all that. I can't imagine the comic suits in a movie as uniforms they would wear, the first movie got that righ (like I can't seriously magine Batman in a 60's light and dark blue suit with yellow belt). The X-Men are tragedy almost all the time, colorful superhero suits are not for them.

With that said, there are situations and some original simple suits that would work. If the movie goes to space with the Shi'ar, some alien uniforms reworked are the perfect excuse to mimic the comic designs (as would have been being turned into a horseman, or being thrown into some weird scenario by Arcade or Mojo someday)
 
When you look at Logan it was probably sorta the opposite of deadpool in many ways.

They went in a direction that was not only abit distant from the comics and other movies but also created its own thing, which is pretty much what the X-Men movies have always done and Logan is currently the highest critical movie of the series yet.

Yes, it has the highest RT rating, though only 2 per cent above DoFP.

But it's not the most successful at the box office. It comes 4th after Deadpool, TLS and DoFP; and, with inflation-adjusted figures, comes 6th.

It's done well as the swansong of Jackman and Stewart; as the best onscreen portrayal of Wolverine (helped by the R rating not giving us any bloodless action scenes); and for introducing X23.

The comic is a way-out 'what if' story that could never be adapted to the screen with the current division of film rights, and probably wouldn't be even if Marvel Studios had all the rights (it has visceral violence, cannibalism, incest, you name it, not to mention huge numbers of characters). It's Mark Millar going to extremes! There's some great ideas in the comic (America divided into zones ruled by supervillains, etc) and some insane ones (Hulk eating Wolverine, who regenerates in his stomach and bursts out).


*They didn't give him the costume because they didn't think it fit the tone

*X-Men comics apparently exist in universe, even though you probably could go nuts trying to work out the logic in that but i am sure it was done for symbolism if anything

*It was sort of an adaptation of old man logan but very different.

*Mangold decided the X-Men could die off screen to forward Wolverines story and that would be fine.

It took a few basic ideas from Old Man Logan, that's it. I wouldn't really call the film an adaptation of Old Man Logan, it was inspired by that comic book story but only loosely based on it with broad brush strokes such as the far-future dystopian setting, an ageing Wolverine, the tragic death of the X-Men by one of their own, abilities affected by poisoning (in the film, adamantium, in the comics it was Hulk by gamma poisoning), a child successor (X23 in the film, a baby Bruce Banner in the comic).

If they had included a version of the costume (something the kids made for Wolverine while he was out cold?) or some other comicbook touches, it would probably have engaged with fans far more. Whether critics would have liked it as much is unclear, but there are ways of doing these things to fit the tone.

Technically the world Mangold created couldn't be further from the comics but i wonder whether critics praised the movie because they did wolverine right... or whether it was praised because it was a good movie that you could have replaced wolverine with anyone and still had it be a hit. (Film adaptation of the last of us)

It was Jackman and Stewart's swansong and it was a well-made movie. Critics have no idea what the right version of Wolverine is.

You can bet that apart from Deadpool sequels and maybe X-Force most of the other movies will attempt to capture the tone of Logan.

I don't know how you can say that. Logan had a very distinctive tone that took a few broad ideas from the source but otherwise presented the comics as some fantasy story for kids (as we saw in the movie). Yet with Dark Phoenix we are hearing about Shi'ar and Hellfire Club, suggesting it's far closer to the comics. It won't just be Jean Grey having a meltdown somewhere in outer space. Also you can't do a space opera in the same grounded way as Logan.
 
Why does it need an excuse? Being more accurate wouldn't have automatically made it better. Heck, it's not like Apocalypse himself was that great of a villain in the comics in the first place.

It might have helped if Apocalypse was more threatening than in the movie (which was all grandiose speeches, cheesy dialogue and only seeming to have defensive capabilities rather than destructive powers). He also had no real plan, so there was no sense of urgency. And if he looked different it could have helped - a more monstrous stony-grey figure capable of manipulating his body into weapons. Instead he was another blue mutant.

I think the movie's main problem was that Singer was out of his element dealing with an over-the-top final boss type conflict like Apocalypse, rather than the more down-to-earth conflicts he clearly specializes at.

Singer was indeed out of his element. Apocalypse should have been a more shadowy figure, especially with that iffy make-up design. When that purple lighting picture was ripped apart, the clues were there that the VFX/make-up/CGI had to be made sure to be perfect on the character. But they weren't. Singer cast a short guy who is a good actor, he should have been thinking motion capture and CGI for someone like Apocalypse, and making him dark and menacing, not revealing too much in daylight.
 
I don't know how you can say that. Logan had a very distinctive tone that took a few broad ideas from the source but otherwise presented the comics as some fantasy story for kids (as we saw in the movie). Yet with Dark Phoenix we are hearing about Shi'ar and Hellfire Club, suggesting it's far closer to the comics. It won't just be Jean Grey having a meltdown somewhere in outer space. Also you can't do a space opera in the same grounded way as Logan.

its a case of look at the movies that were the most critically praised and they were the ones that were fairly grounded in human emotion then comic book accuracy and action (DOFP and Logan).

Then of course there is Deadpool but we have already had films that proven you can do it differently and still have it successful.

Even josh boone is selling New Mutants with hey we are doing something different, no costumes, no villains, its a horror movie.

I actually hope they continue to embrace the comics abit further with Dark Phoenix and keep the costumes and stuff but Logan wasn't exactly a testimate as to why they should go more Deadpool and less X1.
 
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its a case of look at the movies that were the most critically praised and they were the ones that were fairly grounded in human emotion then comic book accuracy and action (DOFP and Logan).

Then of course there is Deadpool but we have already had films that proven you can do it differently and still have it successful.

Even josh boone is selling New Mutants with hey we are doing something different, no costumes, no villains, its a horror movie.

I actually hope they continue to embrace the comics abit further with Dark Phoenix and keep the costumes and stuff but Logan wasn't exactly a testimate as to why they should go more Deadpool and less X1.

Deadpool was Fox's first attempt at an R rating within this franchise. That's what it paved the way for in Logan. It showed R rating can get big box office. That was uncertain, especially after Watchmen (which would probably get a better reception today).

A comic-accurate Old Man Logan wasn't possible anyway.

Difficult to know what the lessons to be learned from Logan are. Apart from that Logan and Deadpool had an absence of Singer and Kinberg, lol...

As for Dark Phoenix... God knows how it will end up. With a Kinberg script and Kinberg directing, the natural concern is a repeat of TLS, F4 or Apocalypse. And that's not being hysterical, that's looking at track record.
 
Deadpool was Fox's first attempt at an R rating within this franchise. That's what it paved the way for in Logan. It showed R rating can get big box office. That was uncertain, especially after Watchmen (which would probably get a better reception today).

A comic-accurate Old Man Logan wasn't possible anyway.

Difficult to know what the lessons to be learned from Logan are. Apart from that Logan and Deadpool had an absence of Singer and Kinberg, lol...
The uncertainty was gone long after Watchmen. They probably didn't think they were going to make any more or less than Kingsman.

Characters are at they're best when they're still relatable and emotionally resonant. Kinberg himself stated as being what went wrong with Apocalypse is that they strayed from that or didn't get to spend enough time with that. Would be great if he just flat-out said he can't write for that many characters, that many groups of characters, and vaguely connected subplots.
 
I don't mean to get off subject but I hope in a future sequel we get a One Man's Worth movie featuring the return of Bishop.
 
Would be great if he just flat-out said he can't write for that many characters, that many groups of characters, and vaguely connected subplots.
You hit the nail on the head. Exact problem with both TLS and Apocalypse. The team from X2 did a better job balancing that.
 
Singer was indeed out of his element. Apocalypse should have been a more shadowy figure, especially with that iffy make-up design. When that purple lighting picture was ripped apart, the clues were there that the VFX/make-up/CGI had to be made sure to be perfect on the character. But they weren't. Singer cast a short guy who is a good actor, he should have been thinking motion capture and CGI for someone like Apocalypse, and making him dark and menacing, not revealing too much in daylight.

This franchise has a tendency to remind us which actor is playing which character. See Hoult. See Isaac. See JLaw.
 
Technically the world Mangold created couldn't be further from the comics but i wonder whether critics praised the movie because they did wolverine right... or whether it was praised because it was a good movie that you could have replaced wolverine with anyone and still had it be a hit. (Film adaptation of the last of us)

The fantasy/X-men elements were so in the background and the story was so grounded in 'real' world it could easily just be taken out and the quality/emotional impact wouldn't be affected. Even the emotional side - yes the swan song aspect added a lot but in the end the film is so well written, so well made and so exceptionally performed by actors it could have nothing to do with Wolverine and it would get much deserved praise.
 
I was just thinking what a pity it is that Fox hasn't leaned on David Hayter the way they've thrown in with Kinberg. Hayter seemed to have a bit more skill and self-awareness to me. I suspect Kinberg has always been more of a yes man.
 
I was just thinking what a pity it is that Fox hasn't leaned on David Hayter the way they've thrown in with Kinberg. Hayter seemed to have a bit more skill and self-awareness to me. I suspect Kinberg has always been more of a yes man.

After Watchmen, he really fell out of mainstream Hollywood.
The only guy left was Dougherty.
 

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