The Winter Soldier "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

[Xeno]

Plus Arnim Zola, potentially Red Skull at some point, maybe Von Strucker (although I believe the rumored Von Strucker isn't the WWII version, but a grandson).....it would no longer be "the man out of time," it would be a WWII Golden Age party transferred to 2014.

Back in the early 1960s when Captain America was first revived the survival of some of his foes from World War II made sense. The war had ended less than 20 years before the Avengers rescued Steve Rogers from the ice. Plenty of Nazis had escaped justice and many lived for decades afterward. The Red Skull, Strucker, Zemo and Zola could plausibly have been around to bedevil Cap with or without invoking comic book science to explain things.

Presently, however, the war was over almost 70 years ago. Stretching things to have Bucky survive into the 21st Century can (almost) be justified, as can robotic Zola, but adding an ancient Black Widow to the mix is just too much. It's also unnecessary. There is no need for the MCU to incorporate every ludicrous retcon from the comics since it doesn't have 50 years of accumulated history to account for.

 

[cherokeesam]

Back in the early 1960s when Captain America was first revived the survival of some of his foes from World War II made sense. The war had ended less than 20 years before the Avengers rescued Steve Rogers from the ice. Plenty of Nazis had escaped justice and many lived for decades afterward. The Red Skull, Strucker, Zemo and Zola could plausibly have been around to bedevil Cap with or without invoking comic book science to explain things.

Presently, however, the war was over almost 70 years ago. Stretching things to have Bucky survive into the 21st Century can (almost) be justified, as can robotic Zola, but adding an ancient Black Widow to the mix is just too much. It's also unnecessary. There is no need for the MCU to incorporate every ludicrous retcon from the comics since it doesn't have 50 years of accumulated history to account for.

I'd probably throw in the towel if Marvel Studios made Black Widow 100 years old. Or even Nick Fury, another popular fanboy candidate for being an unaging WWII veteran.

Keep it simple: Cap, Bucky, Zola. They each come to the modern world in different ways. As for Skully, the MCU might just as well leave him out of this. Cap doesn't *need* a nemesis, any more than MCU Hulk or Iron Man do. It's enough that Skull was his *historical* adversary, but he can find new ones in this century.

 

[mkilban2]

I'm sure they'll bring Skull back in Cap3 since he was 'teleported' elsewhere. Don't know what story you put around that but I'm guessing it will have something to do with Thanos and whatever else is going on in what Phase 3 will be dealing with. Might be cool having some 'cosmic-y' aspects in a Cap movie since he's probably the most grounded in reality hero we have.

Although I guess the nazi tech and cosmic cube stuff in Cap1 is cosmic-y as well, so we don't want them re-hashing the original story in modern day either.

I'm pretty excited for this one though, trying to stay out of the loop on information of Cap/Guardians and AoU as much as possible though haha, so that's uppin my excitement with mystery.

 

[herolee10]

Side note; but honestly... I really do hope that there is some kind of "love scene" between Steve and Natasha in this film..just for the sake of finally quelling down the debate as to whether Steve should be labeled as the 90 year old virgin or not within the MCU.lol

 

[BoredGuy]

ehh, I hope not... a love scene would be a little strange for an MCU film, especially since Tony and Pepper and Thor and Jane haven't had anything close to love scenes, and those were more established relationships. Plus the family-friendliness of these films probably ensures the kiss will be as far as it goes.


but if it does happen, Steve better wrap that thing up, like, twice.
God knows what those former-sexy-russian-spy-types are carrying

 

[RedRose]

Hahaha!

I am still not thinking there will be an actual romance between Natasha and Steve. I have a feeling its going to be Natasha/Clint (necklace)...second option Natasha/Bucky (history)...I think Natasha and Steve are just buds.

 

[herolee10]

lol; if they're still considered as just "friends" at the end of the film..then they're definitely friends with benefits. Seems to be a common motif within SHIELD as of late.lol

 

[RedRose]

lol; if they're still considered as just "friends" at the end of the film..then they're definitely friends with benefits. Seems to be a common motif within SHIELD as of late.lol

LOL true dat. Which reminds me, there is an AoS I still need to catch up on!

 

[Xeno]

ehh, I hope not... a love scene would be a little strange for an MCU film, especially since Tony and Pepper and Thor and Jane haven't had anything close to love scenes, and those were more established relationships. Plus the family-friendliness of these films probably ensures the kiss will be as far as it goes.

There wouldn't need to be a full-blown love scene, just a PG-13 lead-up to the bedroom door followed by Steve and Natasha waking up next to each other the following morning. You see more than that on some primetime TV shows.

but if it does happen, Steve better wrap that thing up, like, twice.
God knows what those former-sexy-russian-spy-types are carrying

Pepper is the one who really has to worry about exotic STDs since Tony has slept with every woman imaginable. And besides, as a Super Soldier Steve has an immune system that is resistant to all communicable diseases, pathogens and poisons. Natasha needs to use about three forms of birth control, though. Those super-sperm are likely to overcome all obstacles.

 

[Megaton Sun]

 

[SilentWarriorZ]

^ lol wut

 

[herolee10]

I was actually so sure that we were going to have a "Love scene" between Thor and Jane in the "sequel", especially with those shots of Thor walking around topless and Jane waking up in Asgard and checking out the balcony while covered in sheets.

Heck, given that this is supposed to be a "spy thriller" type of a film, I wouldn't be surprised if they had the scene being reminiscent to the Jason Bourne one, where Jason was on the run with Marie and they just gave into the moment while hiding out in a hotel.

Plus, good old Cap just can't stay a virgin forever. =P

Though there is so much humor that could be inevitably place in a scene like that considering that Steve has no experience in that department, along with the fact on how it was revealed in AOS that Steve is strong enough to easily push a bulldozer across a large field.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I'm against it and I really doubt they will include it considering they want to appeal to a wide demographic.

 

[Bryn]

I'm against it and I really doubt they will include it considering they want to appeal to a wide demographic.

I agree. A "love scene" wouldn't advance the plot and any humor tied to Steve's "inexperience" would be sophomoric.

Steve Rogers has always been the pinnacle of human goodness, which includes adherence to strong, traditional morals. Same as with Superman in DC. Which is why Superman 2 with Chris Reeves sleeping with Lois, followed by the deadbeat dad of Superman Returns just soiled the whole character without advancing the overall story or character arc.

 

[Loki882]

Except that Steve has slept with several women that he wasn't married to in the comics. I hate when people throw out the "strong moral values." I'd say that most people in this country have no problem with people who aren't married having sex. Superman sleeping with Lois in Superman II did not "soil the character" AT ALL! He and Lois loved each other and wanting to start a relationship, period. Being "moral" doesn't mean that you have to be a monk. Plus, that would just be an example of pushing ONE SEPCIFIC group's sense of morality on EVERYONE, whether people outside that group agree with it or not.

 

[Bryn]

Except that Steve has slept with several women that he wasn't married to in the comics. I hate when people throw out the "strong moral values." I'd say that most people in this country have no problem with people who aren't married having sex. Superman sleeping with Lois in Superman II did not "soil the character" AT ALL! He and Lois loved each other and wanting to start a relationship, period. Being "moral" doesn't mean that you have to be a monk. Plus, that would just be an example of pushing ONE SEPCIFIC group's sense of morality on EVERYONE, whether people outside that group agree with it or not.

Whether or not Cap has been portrayed as having premarital sex in the comics is a moot point. The question would be, does it advance the story? No. Not in a good direction. Never does premarital sex end up well in this genre. Pretty much any genre shows that premarital sex ends badly. And making it a point of comedy would undermine the story and the character.

 

[Xeno]

Whether or not Cap has been portrayed as having premarital sex in the comics is a moot point. The question would be, does it advance the story? No. Not in a good direction. Never does premarital sex end up well in this genre. Pretty much any genre shows that premarital sex ends badly. And making it a point of comedy would undermine the story and the character.

The few times premarital sex has been shown in Marvel films all involved Tony Stark. It didn't end badly for him at all, unless you're talking about that one time he and Christine Everhart fell out of bed together. They laughed, so that counts as "no harm, no foul."

 

[Bryn]

The few times premarital sex has been shown in Marvel films all involved Tony Stark. It didn't end badly for him at all, unless you're talking about that one time he and Christine Everhart fell out of bed together. They laughed, so that counts as "no harm, no foul."

LOL Well, I think you might be missing the overall character arc of Tony, then. He's openly stated that he hurt people by living like that. He struggles with relationships because of the way he's lived. In general, the "good" that we see is from him leaving that lifestyle behind him.

That said, you're right that Tony's overall character is one of a "playboy" and, in keeping with the James Bond genre, he doesn't typically face the consequences normal people would face.

 

[cherokeesam]

Whether or not Cap has been portrayed as having premarital sex in the comics is a moot point. The question would be, does it advance the story? No. Not in a good direction. Never does premarital sex end up well in this genre. Pretty much any genre shows that premarital sex ends badly. And making it a point of comedy would undermine the story and the character.

....did....did we just time-warp back to 1951 or something....?

 

[Xeno]

....did....did we just time-warp back to 1951 or something....?

It sounds like s/he has their genres mixed up. They've mistaken superhero films with horror movies, where premarital sex really does end badly. Maybe they think that if Steve and Natasha do the deed, Jason, Freddy Krueger or some other movie fiend will burst in and murder them right there in bed.

 

[Bryn]

He, thank you.

And, no, I don't have my genres mixed up. Horror is a good example of the extreme, but film noir is another. Ganster movies. Comedies can have such situations causing rifts and trouble. Romance can show how after "doing the deed" things change and tests their relationship.

But, I think you're getting sidetracked due to your distaste for morality. My point was that I agree that Marvel won't have that in the movie because a) it's a family-friendly brand (with mild Tony Stark issues being the outer limit) and b) such a thing would not help the plot and would saddle Steve Rogers with a complication that would only hurt his appeal as a morally upstanding character (like Superman).

 

[Loki882]

How do you know that it wouldn't help the plot? None of us really know what the plot is beyond a basic outline. For all we know, a potential hook up could be a major subplot, we simply don't know yet. The vast majority of the audience, especially the younger members, won't care if Steve has sex because they do no see premarital sex as being "immoral." The people who do are very much a minority of the audience. If Superman has sex with Lois Lane in Batman vs. Superman, 98% of the audience isn't going to give a damn.

 

[cherokeesam]

He, thank you.

And, no, I don't have my genres mixed up. Horror is a good example of the extreme, but film noir is another. Ganster movies. Comedies can have such situations causing rifts and trouble. Romance can show how after "doing the deed" things change and tests their relationship.

But, I think you're getting sidetracked due to your distaste for morality. My point was that I agree that Marvel won't have that in the movie because a) it's a family-friendly brand (with mild Tony Stark issues being the outer limit) and b) such a thing would not help the plot and would saddle Steve Rogers with a complication that would only hurt his appeal as a morally upstanding character (like Superman).

Puritanical much?
The vast, vast majority of modern society doesn't share your distaste for premarital sex, as long as it's implicit instead of explicit. Superheroes, including boy scouts Captain America and Superman, have had non-marital relationships with *lots* of women over the decades, and it never hurt their appeal as morally upstanding characters one bit.

If Cap does the deed with Natasha, there's going to be one helluva lot more people in the audience (of all ages) cheering for both of them than branding them with a scarlett (ha) letter.

 

[DJ Kornphlake]

"Distaste for morality"? Please get off your high horse.

 

[coluanprime]

What do people think of her costume now that we have our first official picture, I think its probably my favorite for her so far.