The Winter Soldier "Yeah, it's going to be fun"- The Black Widow/Scarlett Johansson Thread

[pr0xyt0xin]

Hmm... I disagree.

I think the intra-team conflict was some of the best parts about The Avengers.

Iron man vs Thor
Thor vs Hulk
Hawkeye vs Black Widow
Rogers vs Stark

Those scenes were what made their inevitable teamup so impactful. If they had been all:

the entire time, the movie would have been boring as balls.

 

[cherokeesam]

Less than that, actually. The sequence in Italy, the USO show and Steve rescuing Bucky happen at the end of 1943.

Even if Steve went down very late in the war, weeks before VE-Day, it'd still be no more than a year and a half.

Fury and Rhodey are both Colonels, so they served for around 20 years.

MY point was that while experience accounts for a lot, there are still those people who are naturally gifted and manage to achieve and learn plenty in less time than others.

It's a matter of degree. Even if Cap hasn't spent as many years in the field as Widow or Fury, the field he *was* in was the biggest goddamn one imaginable in human history. His combat experience was against the biggest and meanest army in human history in the biggest, bloodiest war in human history; and even the fictionalized HYDRA were Nazis on steroids with sci-fi weaponry. So no matter how many years of experience SHIELD's top spies might've had, it pales in comparison to the actual furnace of real and sci-fi war where Cap earned his (stars and) stripes.

 

[herolee10]

Less than that, actually. The sequence in Italy, the USO show and Steve rescuing Bucky happen at the end of 1943.

Even if Steve went down very late in the war, weeks before VE-Day, it'd still be no more than a year and a half.

Fury and Rhodey are both Colonels, so they served for around 20 years.

MY point was that while experience accounts for a lot, there are still those people who are naturally gifted and manage to achieve and learn plenty in less time than others.

If that's the case, that one plus year must have been eventful since Cap is regarded with such high respect by a lot of people apparently within the present.

 

[peterparker0077]

Joe Johnston stated the movie took place over the course of 3 years, I think just about 1/2 a year on tour and the rest at war. And don't forget, the SSS enhanced his mind as well, not just he physical.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh. . . there's not really any evidence in the movie for mental enhancement. He was already a clever guy before he got the SSS, and he remained clever afterwards.

 

[onyxrose81]

I think they were trying to infer in the movie when he was telling them about the factories when he looked at the map but yeah, they didn't really spell it out in the movie.

 

[peterparker0077]

I thought they displayed subtly well.

The map example is a great example, he looked at it for a split second, and memorized the locations of all those bases.

Dr Erskine mentioned that the serum effects and enhances everything, not just the physical

Also, the last scene of everyone sitting in the strategy room, thinking of ideas on how to infiltrate the final Hydra base, and some one makes a joke about knocking on the front door, and Cap says "That's exactly what we're going to do" ... was a nice subtle display of it as well.

 

[metaphysician]

Eh, the thing is, he was already portrayed as a keen witted, clever person before the serum. I'm not really willing to grant that an artist having a good visual memory is evidence for super-brains.

 

[Xeno]

Eh, the thing is, he was already portrayed as a keen witted, clever person before the serum. I'm not really willing to grant that an artist having a good visual memory is evidence for super-brains.

Possessing an eidetic memory and being a superb tactician and strategist have always been part of Captain America's skill set conferred by the Super Soldier serum. That goes back to the comic books.

 

[metaphysician]

No, they've always been part of his skill set. They've never been something given by the SSS, or at least not especially often. Particularly since the various times he's *lost* the SSS, he hasn't suddenly dropped 50 IQ points.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

No, they've always been part of his skill set. They've never been something given by the SSS, or at least not especially often. Particularly since the various times he's *lost* the SSS, he hasn't suddenly dropped 50 IQ points.

The super soldier serum OBVIOUSLY had effects on his brain. Do you not remember the part where he said he can't get drunk because the serum effected not only his muscles, but also his cells (Which include his brain cells, since the mind is what is effected most when becoming drunk).

 

[metaphysician]

The super soldier serum OBVIOUSLY had effects on his brain. Do you not remember the part where he said he can't get drunk because the serum effected not only his muscles, but also his cells (Which include his brain cells, since the mind is what is effected most when becoming drunk).

What does "not able to get drunk" have to do with intellect? All it means is his metabolism is faster and more efficient. Does Wolverine have super-intellect, given he's resistant to getting drunk, too?

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

What does "not able to get drunk" have to do with intellect? All it means is his metabolism is faster and more efficient. Does Wolverine have super-intellect, given he's resistant to getting drunk, too?

Wolverine is resistant to getting drunk because he has a healing factor, he didn't receive his powers through the super soldier serum. Besides, even if you wanna ignore the whole "can't get drunk" thing, there were numerous moments in the film that made it obvious that his brain was effected. The part where he memorized the locations on the map were obviously attributed to the serum. He never showed anything of the sort pre-serum. There's a difference between simply being "clever" and memorizing locations on a map in an instant.

 

[ctsketch]

The super soldier serum OBVIOUSLY had effects on his brain. Do you not remember the part where he said he can't get drunk because the serum effected not only his muscles, but also his cells (Which include his brain cells, since the mind is what is effected most when becoming drunk).

it said the SSS affected his metabolism of alcohol....not his mental abilities while drinking

 

[peterparker0077]

Again - Dr Erskine mentioned that the serum effects and enhances everything, not just the physical. That includes the intellect.

 

[metaphysician]

And yet showed no actual evidence of it, nor did anyone else who received the SSS.

 

[ctsketch]

And yet showed no actual evidence of it, nor did anyone else who received the SSS.

the accurate shield throwing isn't a physical thing, its a skill thing. throwing a shield having it bounce off a tank and hit someone who is running behind you?

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

And yet showed no actual evidence of it, nor did anyone else who received the SSS.

Why do you keep ignoring the map memorization?

Also, who else received the SSS on film besides Cap and the Red Skull?

 

[metaphysician]

I ignore the map memorization because its, at best, ambiguous, doubly so because the film already showed that he was a trained artist and clever. Having a good enough memory to memorize a map does not a super-genius make.

As for other people receiving the SSS, Blonsky received something a lot like it, at the least.

 

[BullMcGiveny]

Whether or not he got smarter with the serum is debatable.

The flagpole scene was meant to tell us that skinny!Steve might be small but he is cleverer than many.

 

[herolee10]

We need some Scarlett back onto this thread.lol

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

I ignore the map memorization because its, at best, ambiguous, doubly so because the film already showed that he was a trained artist and clever.

Being clever and good at art is one thing, but don't group memorizing multiple locations on a map in a short amount of time with those two things. They are NOT the same.

Having a good enough memory to memorize a map does not a super-genius make.

It doesn't take a "super-genius", but it does take someone with heightened mental acuity. Even though it wasn't outright said, it was heavily implied that Steve was able to memorize the locations because of the serum.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I ignore the map memorization because its, at best, ambiguous, doubly so because the film already showed that he was a trained artist and clever. Having a good enough memory to memorize a map does not a super-genius make.

As for other people receiving the SSS, Blonsky received something a lot like it, at the least.

I think in the audio commentary of the DVD they said something about the SSS helping him to memorise the map.
I'm not sure though, I'll have to listen again.

 

[AnneFan]

 

[hafizbat]

It seems Cap and Widow are together in almost every scene, and they seem pretty darn close. Is it possible that Natasha is Cap's love interest...? I know they didn't start out that way but after spending so much time together it could be a possibility. Thoughts on that? I'd like it, but it make make things a bit complicated for Avengers 2.