7.16 - Descent - Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[Captivated]

I would give it a 4.5 out of 5 because of the pity party. Clark should know better by now. On the other hand, Lex killed two people in one episode!!!!

I could not disagree more.

Pity party? Was he feeling sorry for HIMSELF? No. Clark, being a good, caring person SHOULD feel some pain and regret that signifigant people in his life loved him SO MUCH that they died protecting him.

When Clark stops FEELING normal, relatable emotions, Smallville will lose it's heart.

It was a pivitol episode that was handled pretty well... BUT it seems that so many are so thrilled that Lex is finally "evil," they aren't bothered by the fact that his MOTIVATION for KILLING is really WEAK.

He's offing people that clearly could still have information and be useful to him, when there was no good reason to do so. WTH? Where's the evil genuis? When and WHY did he just become a compulsive murderer?!

We've been watching this slow slide of Lex's and it's been very well done... but this recent push to make him totally "evil" has fallen down in the motivation department.

 

[triplet]

I could not disagree more.

Pity party? Was he feeling sorry for HIMSELF? No. Clark, being a good, caring person SHOULD feel some pain and regret that signifigant people in his life loved him SO MUCH that they died protecting him.

When Clark stops FEELING normal, relatable emotions, Smallville will lose it's heart.

It was a pivitol episode that was handled pretty well... BUT it seems that so many are so thrilled that Lex is finally "evil," they aren't bothered by the fact that his MOTIVATION for KILLING is really WEAK.

He's offing people that clearly could still have information and be useful to him, when there was no good reason to do so. WTH? Where's the evil genuis? When and WHY did he just become a compulsive murderer?!

We've been watching this slow slide of Lex's and it's been very well done... but this recent push to make him totally "evil" has fallen down in the motivation department.

I agree with you on Clark, btw. LJ is just full of people angry at the show and hating Clark. I don't get it. I think I'm going to be defriending people over this... Or at least, reading less of what other people think of the show. I wish some people would put that kind of crap behind cuts.

Anyway, as for Lex: I had thought he killed Lionel because he'd been used by him for some reason that day in smallville...

His life was ruined because of Lionel's greed for power, then his father hated Lex for what he had essentially caused... Seems like a recipe for murder to me.

Lex had been bitter about his relationship with Lionel his whole life. He treated him cruelly and like a commodity...

So, when Lex finds out Lionel was at fault for the most traumatic and life-changing event in his life and yet wouldn't tell him who it was he sacrificed Lex for (Lex I don't think bought the lie that he was the Traveler), he snapped.

It was simply the last straw.

 

[Superman1980]

I don't know about that because she wouldn't tell anyone he did it. I had a feeling he was going to use her...

I had thought her murder meant that someone else is looking for the traveler and realized she might have constituted a threat to their plans.

Spoiler

Looking at the spoilers for the upcoming episodes this might be true. It looks like there's one final member of the Veritas clan. Maybe this final member was the one behind Gina's death???

 

[Tron5000]

Lionel went out like a chump. After 7 seasons, this is the way he is killed off? There was not even any build up to it. Lex just snatches the necklace and tosses him out the window.

The rest of the episode was great, but I just had a sour taste in my mouth after that first scene. Lionel deserved a much better death than that. It just felt so awfully forced.

 

[Whiteflag]

LJ is just full of people angry at the show and hating Clark. I don't get it. I think I'm going to be defriending people over this... Or at least, reading less of what other people think of the show. I wish some people would put that kind of crap behind cuts.

I agree. I've decided not to read most of the "reviews" that are being posted on LJ. The Lex's apologists, and Clark haters, are in full force and not even bothering to post their biased and crappy comments behind cuts. I'm done reading what those individuals have to say about the show.

So, when Lex finds out Lionel was at fault for the most traumatic and life-changing event in his life and yet wouldn't tell him who it was he sacrificed Lex for (Lex I don't think bought the lie that he was the Traveler), he snapped.

It was simply the last straw.

Yes, but I wonder why Lionel decided to take Lex along when he went to Smallville. What was the purpose?

 

[Olea]

You think Lex killed Gina?

I don't think so, unless you know something I don't because of spoilers from another episode.

What would be the motive?

She was a pain in the ass this episode, but she clearly adored him and would do anything for him... Why would he kill someone like that?

I believe Gina became a liability once Lex realised that she knew about Lionel's death. To me it looks more like taking care of loose ends than anything else. Gina was devoted to Lex but a woman scorned... you know the saying. Lex cannot afford that, he can find another loyal assistant. But a witness to his criminal deeds is very dangerous to continue living.

She just knew too much.

Pity party? Was he feeling sorry for HIMSELF? No. Clark, being a good, caring person SHOULD feel some pain and regret that signifigant people in his life loved him SO MUCH that they died protecting him.

I agree with you but not when his caring nature is used as an excuse by the writers to stall his progression towards his destiny.

To me the way it was put out there, Clark was feeling responsible for Lionel's death, even though he had nothing to do with it. And it appears to be a set up for the what if episode 7-18: Would the world be a better place without me?

He should mourn for Lionel, especially after realising what he has done for him, but just like with his father, the best way to honor what they have sacrificed for him, is not to walk further away from his destiny but to finally embrace it.

It was a pivitol episode that was handled pretty well... BUT it seems that so many are so thrilled that Lex is finally "evil," they aren't bothered by the fact that his MOTIVATION for KILLING is really WEAK.

He's offing people that clearly could still have information and be useful to him, when there was no good reason to do so. WTH? Where's the evil genuis? When and WHY did he just become a compulsive murderer?!

But that's the point. The real Lex never needed much of an excuse to do anything or kill anyone. However, you're right, it would have made more sense if he had killed Lionel at the end of the episode and given more substance to their current problems...

I agree with you on Clark, btw. LJ is just full of people angry at the show and hating Clark. I don't get it. I think I'm going to be defriending people over this... Or at least, reading less of what other people think of the show. I wish some people would put that kind of crap behind cuts.

I don't know what an LJ is but for those who know me from DTS and SHH, know that I watch the show for Clark Kent. I can never be angry at him and i despise people who call him BDA. But I cannot be even just a little bit angry at the writers who have him running in circles for couple of seasons now. Clark should be prominent in every episode and they have turned him into a guest star at his own show. Guest stars and supporting cast have more screen-time than he has.

Clark doesn't need Chloe to tell him what to do, or show him the way, or open his eyes for him. He is Clark Kent, he should be able to do things for himself. And when he's more proactive, I just love him to bits!!!!

 

[boydston_14]

I don't know if this has been asked yet, but what was the song at the end of the episode during Lionel's funeral?

 

[Sawyer]

Way to spoil a major characters death, CW.

 

[Prison Mike]

The death was supposed to occur as a cliffhanger for Veritas, I believe. So while I don't think the death was spoiled in any way, blame the writer's strike for it.

 

[Sawyer]

The death was supposed to occur as a cliffhanger for Veritas, I believe. So while I don't think the death was spoiled in any way, blame the writer's strike for it.

Still, they could have not put it right in front of us in the promo...

 

[The Caped Knight]

- Chloe opens Clark's eyes yet again to his destiny. Did we need the Clark pity party?

I would give it a 4.5 out of 5 because of the pity party. Clark should know better by now.

Clark: Jor-El died getting me on that ship. My dad died of a heart attack from the powers he took on protecting me. And now Lionel's been murdered protecting my secret.

Chloe: They did die for you, Clark. But ultimately, they died for all of us. There was a reason those men were in your life - each of them added something to the man that you are today.


Exactly Was it really necessary for Chloe to point out the obvious facts yet again to Clark . I thought this guy was suppose to become SUPERMAN . He acts way to much like Peter Parker in his early years as SPIDER-MAN .

 

[Zorex]

Lionel went out like a chump. After 7 seasons, this is the way he is killed off? There was not even any build up to it. Lex just snatches the necklace and tosses him out the window.

The rest of the episode was great, but I just had a sour taste in my mouth after that first scene. Lionel deserved a much better death than that. It just felt so awfully forced.

That's how I feel. Having the death at the very beginning of the episode may seem brave or ballsy, but it just kind of felt forced and not well enough led up to. Yes, I know, it was essentially carried over from the previous episode. The rest of the ep made up for it, though.

 

[The Caped Knight]

That's how I feel. Having the death at the very beginning of the episode may seem brave or ballsy, but it just kind of felt forced and not well enough led up to. Yes, I know, it was essentially carried over from the previous episode. The rest of the ep made up for it, though.

Hello Lex has wanted to axe-off his father from the very Get-GO (The build-up has been Seven seasons of Lex living under Lionel Shadow, The Veritas society just finally pushed Lex over the deep end to the point he decided , I'm going to end this once and for all .)

LEX LUTHOR : I was raised in your shadow and, now, you're going to die in mine. No one will even remember your name .

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

Clark: Jor-El died getting me on that ship. My dad died of a heart attack from the powers he took on protecting me. And now Lionel's been murdered protecting my secret.

Chloe: They did die for you, Clark. But ultimately, they died for all of us. There was a reason those men were in your life - each of them added something to the man that you are today.


Exactly Was it really necessary for Chloe to point out the obvious facts yet again to Clark . I thought this guy was suppose to become SUPERMAN . He acts way to much like Peter Parker in his early years as SPIDER-MAN .

Because as I said many times before this show is pretty much Spider-Man with Superman's powers. From day one till now this show was always like that. Lana's old boyfriend was like Flash, Chloe is pretty much written like Gwen, Harry I mean Lex are written alike. Which is why I say I love SV for what it is but really this show is written and carried out more like Spider-Man then Superman. The only thing missing is Mrs. Kent giving Clark fortune Cookie speeches like how Aunt May does in the movie.

 

[triplet]

I believe Gina became a liability once Lex realised that she knew about Lionel's death. To me it looks more like taking care of loose ends than anything else. Gina was devoted to Lex but a woman scorned... you know the saying. Lex cannot afford that, he can find another loyal assistant. But a witness to his criminal deeds is very dangerous to continue living.

She just knew too much.

Okay, I can kinda see that, but he is going to kick himself when he gets her vm that he'd done it then.

I don't know what and LJ is but for those who know me from DTS and SHH, know that I watch the show for Clark Kent. I can never be angry at him and i despise people who call him BDA.

LJ=livejournal

I have an account, have had one for about three years, but I use a different name.

Most of the SV fandom is fanfic oriented surrounding characters other than Clark....

They're either into Lex or Chloe, mostly.... I like Clex so a lot of my friends list are Lex oriented and it's them that are having problems with the recent episodes and are getting made at Clark.

I don't have any problems with anything Clark did in the last few episodes, but I've made my thoughts pretty clear in my reviews.

I'll probably give this one a five... it was close to perfect and it was very entertaiing to boot. Amazing that it was a newb director that helmed this episode...

But I cannot be even just a little bit angry at the writers who have him running in circles for couple of seasons now. Clark should be prominent in every episode and they have turned him into a guest star at his own show. Guest stars and supporting cast have more screen-time than he has.

Clark doesn't need Chloe to tell him what to do, or show him the way, or open his eyes for him. He is Clark Kent, he should be able to do things for himself. And when he's more proactive, I just love him to bits!!!!

Okay, here I gotta disagree a bit...

This keeps coming up over and over again, so I'm going to say what I've said before about it:

No, Clark in a real world wouldn't need to have Chloe (or anyone) to tell him to do things, he would of course make up his own mind about it, but you can't see what Clark is thinking in TV.

Even in the comics, you can see read thought bubbles, but how would we know what Clark is thinking in any detail unless he talks things over with other characters...

Its a contrivance, yes, but I think it's a necessary one.

The same thing came up in Season 5 with the superbreath and Chloe talking him through how to use it...

I don't have a problem with Chloe prompting him on things like this. He's not incapable of acting on his own, far from it, but we (as an audience) need the details talking to her provides us...

 

[Ultimate_Superman]

My thing is I can under stand Lex taking this long into becoming who he is. What I can't not understand however is why it is taking Clark so long to fall into who he is suppose to come. My main problem with this is that all other DC Heroes who have been on the show act like who they are suppose to be but Clark which looks bad on him because he is suppose to be the top guy in the DCU and they are making him look like a B-list hero or much like Iron Spider-Man (the time period where Spider-Man became Iron Man's flunky) which is not good IMO. I think I wouldn't have noticed so much though if they didn't have all the other heroes show up and if they didn't progress Lex as well as they have. With Clark it is like he is moving at a turtle speed.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Because as I said many times before this show is pretty much Spider-Man with Superman's powers. From day one till now this show was always like that. Lana's old boyfriend was like Flash, Chloe is pretty much written like Gwen, Harry I mean Lex are written alike. Which is why I say I love SV for what it is but really this show is written and carried out more like Spider-Man then Superman. The only thing missing is Mrs. Kent giving Clark fortune Cookie speeches like how Aunt May does in the movie.

I do see the connection

Smallville's Clark Kent = Peter Parker

Lois Lane = Mary Jane Watson

Lex Luthor = Harry Osborn

Lana Lang = Gwen Stacy

Chloe = Gwen Stacy\Betty Brant\Debra Whitman

Lionel Luthor = Norman Osborn (Season 1 - 3)

Jonathan Kent = Uncle Ben

Martha Kent = Aunt May

Jor-EL & Lara = Richard & Mary Parker

Jimmy Olsen = Ben Reilly

Kara/Supergirl = May/Spider-Girl

 

[RickO'Connell]

When Gina was getting killed the person that set it up immediately came to me was

Spoiler

Jason's dad going by spoilers. It is not hard to believe that if he is supposed to be a rich & powerful lawyer

he can be following Lionel & Lex & their people around

 

[amazingfantasy15]

I'm really not into this whole Veritas thing, I feel it cheapens Clark's arrival on Earth. There's a secret society that knew Jor-El was gonna send his son to Earth? Lame! Plus it feels like a total ripoff of the comic Runaways premise.

 

[boydston_14]

When Gina was getting killed the person that set it up immediately came to me was

Spoiler

Jason's dad going by spoilers. It is not hard to believe that if he is supposed to be a rich & powerful lawyer

he can be following Lionel & Lex & their people around

As soon as I saw the guy killing her I thought it looked an awful lot like the guy the fake Kara killed back in Season 3.... even though I know it couldn't be him it was still funny to think about.

 

[Hush]

I am enjoying the show greatly, I do not want to see luthor at the Fortress again, i always hated that in the movies. Its a FORTRESS of SOLITUDE!

 

[Superfreak]

just reading some of the Clark defence comments. Clark has been pretty meh for the last little while. Very inactive in the actual plot. Lately, I've noticed that Clark hides out at the farm... then something happens, to drag him off the farm... then he goes home again. It's strange, he's the central character, but the plot of the series lately (maybe for a long long time) has been driven by the antagonists, with Clark merely there as the reactionary protagonist.

Hopefully, when Clark gets the control thing back from Lex, he will really be able to forge his own destiny, and stop being a passive player, as far as the overall narrative is concerned.

 

[04nbod]

an excellent episode! Michael Rosenbaum has proven himself as the best Lex ever to be in live action

 

[b24]

Lex's motivation for killing lionel was pretty clear

to find all the truth about traveller and how to control him and what's in the box he did ask lionel about what's in the box but lionel didn't tell him so lex had no choice but to kill him

if lionel was alive he wouldn't let lex to do that

also lex was just looking for excuse to kill lionel from several past sesaons he had nothing but hatred for his father since last season and him finding about Veritas was like sprinkling a oil in burnning fire

he has some phsychological issues too as u can see in his mind he is "protecting the world" in his own twisted way and he consider Lionel on "bad side" who is with that alien traveller

as for his motivation for Gina's murder he killed her because she knew too much remember when she said to him "u did it" he gave her wiered look

and from his past reltionship with other women one thing he learned is never let any woman know his secrets not to mention he is still paying for Lana's "detective skills" yet

 

[amazingfantasy15]

just reading some of the Clark defence comments. Clark has been pretty meh for the last little while. Very inactive in the actual plot. Lately, I've noticed that Clark hides out at the farm... then something happens, to drag him off the farm... then he goes home again. It's strange, he's the central character, but the plot of the series lately (maybe for a long long time) has been driven by the antagonists, with Clark merely there as the reactionary protagonist.

Hopefully, when Clark gets the control thing back from Lex, he will really be able to forge his own destiny, and stop being a passive player, as far as the overall narrative is concerned.

That's always been the case with Smallville, Clark stays at home until someone threatens Lana, Chloe, Pete, Martha, Jonathan or Lois, then he works on figuring it out and fixing it. Until it directly effects someone close to him Clark just stays on the farm and away from any action.