10.4 - Homecoming -Discussion Thread (Spoilers)

[LadyVader]

Oh, and me knowing that Clark is going to wind up depressed and insecure by the end of the season is NOT predictable? No matter how well he defeats the enemy of the season, or how well he overcomes the bad situation of the season... by the end of it if Smallville gets renewed, something will happen to make him more jaded and afraid, so that the next season he will have to relearn everything.

Once again, life is a series of highs and lows. Smallville chose to focus on the lows, in order to keep Clark on the farm and afraid to face his destiny. Some say that makes him human, personally I think it makes him dense and weak. But the two don't need to cancel each other out or anything. He's a dense and weak human who lucked out on his DNA.

 

[triplet]

That's interesting because you would think it would be the other way around because movies are looked at as something bigger than a tv show, but it makes perfect sense that more attention would be paid to a show instead since overall it does require more aspects all working together over a longer period of time.

Personally, I think as a writer a job on a TV show is better than working for features. Yeah, feature money is potentially a lot better and the audience a lot bigger, but you don't have the same time to let the story unfold.

Spartacus is like a novel, each episode like a chapter in it. The entire season had rising stakes for all characters that built together until that killer ending. It had a story structure all it's own.

Personally, I think it's the best written show on TV because of that. If you like well-written TV and don't mind sex, violence, bad language and tons of gore, I'd recommend it highly.

I even wrote a review of it:

http://www.ksitetv.com/3040/spartacus-blood-and-sand-sine-missione-television/

I've never felt the urge to write a review on anything else besides Smallville, although I'd been tempted a time or two with Supernatural. I adore that show. But I think everyone (if they have the stomach for it) should see Spartacus mostly because of the beauty of the writing. It's honest and fresh and no character is safe from fatal injuries. It's epic.

I think this season has the potential to be juat as epic for the same reasons: they know the ending from the start.

For me, as a writer, I am far more successful if I know the ending I want going in, before I pen a single word. It helps to know where you're going.

If you're worried about getting renewed, you have to be so cautious and not shut too many doors that you can't reopen. The writers and producers have been freed from that worry. Hopefully they will rise to the task and craft the best season of Smallville ever for its last.

 

[SV Fan]

The reason they do cliffhangers to begin with is so that they can have momentum to begin the next season. Imagine if Clark saved Lana in Tempest to close out season 1, instead of doing it in Vortex

Tempest/Vortex is one of the few season opener/ender combos that I think did it right(save the last Clana scene). For the most part we got a sense of Clark did something right. Vortex would have been slightly better though if they didn't add that last Clana scene and just have her thank him, then develop the "secret and lies" thing in later episodes. Beyond that combo I think Crusade and Bizarro both left on pretty positive notes which is why both rate high in my books.

I understand cliffhangers but my basic point was a season should end on a highnote(which would be the first episode of the new season) and don't start any new storylines till after that(slowly build into them in the first 3-4 epsiodes while you use those episodes more for character development). To many times the show goes into the negativity for Clark's character right in the first episode of the season.

Using Arrival as an example. When I first watched it I thought it was very good, but in later viewings the whole Clark loses his powers storyline(but gets them back when he dies in Hidden only for somebody to die in his place) to me was a huge turnoff and swayed my opinion of it. Why couldn't they just end Arrival on the note Clark finds the fortress and leave it at that basically and any stories they wanted to do after that point they could have started later in the season? I know it would have given me a better opinion of both Arrival and Commencement. If Arrival was written slightly differently the last scene could have been a happy moment of Clark in the FOS like he did something right.

 

[SpideyVille]

Oh, and me knowing that Clark is going to wind up depressed and insecure by the end of the season is NOT predictable? No matter how well he defeats the enemy of the season, or how well he overcomes the bad situation of the season... by the end of it if Smallville gets renewed, something will happen to make him more jaded and afraid, so that the next season he will have to relearn everything.

Well for the most part, the finale usually involves Clark having to make a choice, and ends with a glimpse of the consequence of that choice. Not necessarily for him to be depressed and insecure. Season 1 he was happy with Chloe until he left to go save Lana. Two and Three turned him into a worry wort. Four ended solidly with him finally doing what Jor-El asked. Five had he decide to kill Fine and not Lex, which ended up releasing Zod anyway. Six began his fight with Bizarro. Seven was him still trying to save Lex. Eight was depressed after Jimmy's death, and Nine was pretty high with him being Heroic and sacrificing himself to save the world from Zod.

The thing about Clark that has remained constant in pretty much of all of those situations is that he assumes the responsibility of being a protector, but he isn't always sure of what to do or which choice to make. The bad only comes when his decisions backfire on him, like in Exodus, where he assumes guilt for hurting others.

Personally, I think as a writer a job on a TV show is better than working for features. Yeah, feature money is potentially a lot better and the audience a lot bigger, but you don't have the same time to let the story unfold.

Spartacus is like a novel, each episode like a chapter in it. The entire season had rising stakes for all characters that built together until that killer ending. It had a story structure all it's own.

Personally, I think it's the best written show on TV because of that. If you like well-written TV and don't mind sex, violence, bad language and tons of gore, I'd recommend it highly.

I even wrote a review of it:

http://www.ksitetv.com/3040/spartacus-blood-and-sand-sine-missione-television/

I've never felt the urge to write a review on anything else besides Smallville, although I'd been tempted a time or two with Supernatural. I adore that show. But I think everyone (if they have the stomach for it) should see Spartacus mostly because of the beauty of the writing. It's honest and fresh and no character is safe from fatal injuries. It's epic.

Cool, I'll definitely check it out.

I think this season has the potential to be juat as epic for the same reasons: they know the ending from the start.

Agreed. It's going to be great because we're a lot more closer to getting what we've been waiting for after all these year. Knowing that this is the end for good, they don't have to worry about filling up space to bridge to the next season, but rather to use these last episodes to bridge to the finale.

For me, as a writer, I am far more successful if I know the ending I want going in, before I pen a single word. It helps to know where you're going.

It's funny you mention that because I was always told not to "build a house from the roof down", in the sense that you're writing to achieve a certain ending, which I think has been a weakness of the series in the past, in that they sometimes force certain puzzle pieces to fit in together in order make the big picture look the way they want it to.

And I'm guilty of this myself, because like you say, I don't like to start a story until I know where I want to go with it. But at the same time, that's why character development is so important because if you know your characters, then the story pretty much writes itself. Otherwise it feels like you're just following a formula on something.

 

[SpideyVille]

Tempest/Vortex is one of the few season opener/ender combos that I think did it right(save the last Clana scene). For the most part we got a sense of Clark did something right. Vortex would have been slightly better though if they didn't add that last Clana scene and just have her thank him, then develop the "secret and lies" thing in later episodes. Beyond that combo I think Crusade and Bizarro both left on pretty positive notes which is why both rate high in my books.

I understand cliffhangers but my basic point was a season should end on a highnote(which would be the first episode of the new season) and don't start any new storylines till after that(slowly build into them in the first 3-4 epsiodes while you use those episodes more for character development). To many times the show goes into the negativity for Clark's character right in the first episode of the season.

Using Arrival as an example. When I first watched it I thought it was very good, but in later viewings the whole Clark loses his powers storyline(but gets them back when he dies in Hidden only for somebody to die in his place) to me was a huge turnoff and swayed my opinion of it. Why couldn't they just end Arrival on the note Clark finds the fortress and leave it at that basically and any stories they wanted to do after that point they could have started later in the season? I know it would have given me a better opinion of both Arrival and Commencement. If Arrival was written slightly differently the last scene could have been a happy moment of Clark in the FOS like he did something right.

Well it all goes back to the classic idea that seeing someone struggling and then overcome that struggle is what people want to see. They want to see the underdog succeed when he's down and out. Sure Clark's been down a lot, but he's still young and has to learn to it's more about how you bounce back up that matters. And they choose to do that with a cliffhanger to bring momentum to the next season, while also establishing in the premiere that the stakes are high, which in turn continue to add to the momentum of the season. It's also meant to teach Clark that a hero's job is endless. We see Clark happy in episodes like Homecoming and Isis because there is no longer a threat, but in the finales there is always a threat, one that Clark is unsure of himself and his ability to overcome.

I mean yeah it sucks that he defeats Zod and Bizarro by the end of the premiere, but the whole point is that there's supposed to be something that causes tension because viewers will remember it more because they are anxious.

 

[triplet]

Cool, I'll definitely check it out.

I adore that show, shame the star had to leave. Andy Whitfield has cancer, they thought he'd beated in and had held off season two until he could come back, but the cancer returned and he had to leave.

It makes me so sad. What a great character, what a fantastic performance. He'll be hard to replace...

Let me know what you think of my review, if you have a chance. It's a long one since I did the whole season.

It's funny you mention that because I was always told not to "build a house from the roof down", in the sense that you're writing to achieve a certain ending, which I think has been a weakness of the series in the past, in that they sometimes force certain puzzle pieces to fit in together in order make the big picture look the way they want it to.

And I'm guilty of this myself, because like you say, I don't like to start a story until I know where I want to go with it. But at the same time, that's why character development is so important because if you know your characters, then the story pretty much writes itself. Otherwise it feels like you're just following a formula on something.

Nope, for me I have to know the ending even if it changes. My reviews are different, I don't always know exactly how I feel about an episode until I write the review of it. It's like doing a post-mortem, you have to dissect the body to see what's really going on.

However, with fiction, I have to know where I'm going or usually I don't finish it. For me, that's a key: know where you're headed before you start the journey.

I think it's true for TV shows and movies too. You can almost always tell when the ending was changed in a film, they usually don't fit with the rest of the story.

I hated the ending of the adaption of The Fog that Tom was in, for example. It seemed to come out of nowhere. Found out later the script had a completely different ending originally. You could tell...

As for Smallville, I think knowing their end is this year and knowing what they want to do will make this the best season so far, I'm sure.

 

[vantheman77]

Clark got over one obstacle in coming to terms with Jonathan's death after witnessing what happened between he and Lionel. He also overcame another obstacle in seeing the future to overcome his fears of it. The only obstacle he has left is Jor-El, who disowned him in Supergirl.

With Clark, Lois, and Oliver, they are mythos characters as the writers would know where they're going with them and how they get to where they are in the comics. With Chloe and Tess, they're non-mythos characters whom we have no idea where they're going in comparison.

 

[Webhead2006]

Totally@ haracters need to have highs and lows so the grow and change.

 

[SpideyVille]

I adore that show, shame the star had to leave. Andy Whitfield has cancer, they thought he'd beated in and had held off season two until he could come back, but the cancer returned and he had to leave.

It makes me so sad. What a great character, what a fantastic performance. He'll be hard to replace...

Let me know what you think of my review, if you have a chance. It's a long one since I did the whole season.

I read it and thought it was really great. I could tell you are very passionate and care about the show a lot even though you don't agree with everything that was done. It was a little hard to relate to because, unlike your SV reviews, I have never seen this show so I don't really have any investment in it or the characters, but your review definitely intrigued me enough to check out some clips online to see what it's all about. Maybe I'll check out the dvd if it goes down a little in pricing for the holidays.

On a side note: I saw your recommendation for "It's Superman" a few pages back, so I decided to order a copy from Amazon since it the paperback was only $10. It just came in the mail today, so I haven't have much time to look through it, but I definitely looking forward to it, especially since I'm seriously lacking in the Superman department when it comes to comics or books.

Nope, for me I have to know the ending even if it changes. My reviews are different, I don't always know exactly how I feel about an episode until I write the review of it. It's like doing a post-mortem, you have to dissect the body to see what's really going on.

However, with fiction, I have to know where I'm going or usually I don't finish it. For me, that's a key: know where you're headed before you start the journey.

Oh, I agree. When I was taking fiction writing, I wouldn't even to start writing a story unless I knew where I wanted to go with it and had certain things figured out. But that was one of my weaknesses since more often than not, things felt forced and predictable, which was often the bulk of the criticism that I received. But I learned from it.

Right now I'm taking playwriting and this new professor made us write a story first that interested us, and then build a play around that. It's a different take than what I learn in the other classes, but I feel more comfortable doing it that way.

As for Smallville, I think knowing their end is this year and knowing what they want to do will make this the best season so far, I'm sure.

Agreed, and I feel that they've set up the season in both Salvation and Lazarus well enough, as well as the series as a whole, that it won't feel like a forced ending, but rather a fitting ending that brings a sense of closure to a decade long story.

With Clark, Lois, and Oliver, they are mythos characters as the writers would know where they're going with them and how they get to where they are in the comics. With Chloe and Tess, they're non-mythos characters whom we have no idea where they're going in comparison.

Good point. Though on the flip-side, that has proven to be a weakness of the writing more often or not. They create or insert characters to help along in the journey for Clark, but at the same time try to help them remain revelant by putting them in situations and storylines that just feel out of place at times. The same can be said for characters like Lana, who was a mythos character, but whose relevance wavered in moments where the character was on their own with their own arc that was eventually made to tie in with Clark at some point.

 

[Webhead2006]

Totally they uas made silly mistakes through the yrs. But I still say there is more good then bad.

 

[The Caped Knight]

Check Superman # 704t:

 

[blksuperman2]

lol you really do reach sometimes Kal-El.

 

[Webhead2006]

i dont see anything wrong with what kal is doing. sure its not totally identical but its simular to what that comic panel did.

 

[DavidB1111]

I really did enjoy Homecoming. It was well done.

Also, Poor Brainiac 5 getting stuck in the Dark ages.
I bet he was like. "Ah, crap." when he realized that.


Also, knowing Brainiac's humor, I'm certain some research team is going to see the words "Kal-El, you are such an idiot sometimes!" burnt into a plate and hidden for centuries.

 

[Webhead2006]

haha that would be funny.

 

[SpideyVille]

@alseptien Why Lois didnt have a ring in Homecoming? Please tell me Al I was really wondering why!!!
@doro_bartowski Don't know. Perhaps its at a time in the future before they're actually married... or maybe she just took it off that day

 

[Johnny]

Yeah, leave it to offscreenville.

 

[The Caped Knight]

@alseptien Why Lois didnt have a ring in Homecoming? Please tell me Al I was really wondering why!!!
@doro_bartowski Don't know. Perhaps its at a time in the future before they're actually married... or maybe she just took it off that day

I knew it. Their married

 

[Webhead2006]

Yea they seemed to be married. She probably just doesn't wear it all the time at work.

 

[Kii]

Yeah, there's no way they're not married.

 

[triplet]

@alseptien Why Lois didnt have a ring in Homecoming? Please tell me Al I was really wondering why!!!
@doro_bartowski Don't know. Perhaps its at a time in the future before they're actually married... or maybe she just took it off that day

I other words he had no idea why she wasn't wearing her rings.

 

[Sawyer]

They were married. In 2013, Lois had a ring. She probably just took it off. Or lost it. Knowing Lois, that seems likely.

 

[Webhead2006]

Yea plus in the comics someone did mention they don't wear rings all the time at work. So story wise could have been that. Real life there props person or director of episode just didn't remember it.

 

[triplet]

I'm really not worried about it, but you'd think a producer on the show would know the characters' back-stories (or future stories) better than Al apparently does. Even little details about whether or not Clark was married to Lois in 2013 or 2017 when they have flash forwards with such big leaps like that.

I would think that it would have come up in the writer's room. Maybe it was something Greg Beeman thought of, he is the one who directed Salvation, and they didn't really discuss it. I would think the on-set continuity person, I think that's usually the script editor's job, would have had a handle on things like that.

Some of the names in the show credits are different, so maybe the continuity person is new or something. They usually deal with continuity with the shots and blocking and ad-libs in the dialogue more than they keep track of things that happened last season, but still...

I would think that someone should have remembered about the rings.

 

[Webhead2006]

Yea wasn't a big deal