BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Poni_Boy]

What in the world..

It's amazing. This forum is insanely more entertaining than the movie itself. It's why I keep coming back.

And I realized something. Fans are like Charlie Brown. Zack Snyder is like Lucy. Well made and received DC movies are like the football. And we keep, just, trying to kick the ****ing thing.

 

[souperman]

Maybe a StormTrooper Mod can step in here and say...move along...move along

 

[RadioSha]

Anyway...

My takeaway from this entire thread is that it is agreed that BVS is a misunderstood masterpiece.

 

[Jumpman]

Even Superman Returns handled this. And made it compassionate. And understanding. This is like "what, if I can't hear Lois or Ma then **** it"

Oh stop exaggerating the issue here.

Superman Returns did in fact handle it well. But, Snyder's explanation also has merit if you put yourself in his shoes. Are you telling me you can't even understand this concept that Snyder talking about?

For Christ's sake...

 

[Poni_Boy]

Yeah in this case I think that this is again part of Snyder being bad at communicating. The simple fact is that Superman can't save everyone, its impossible, and it would drive him mad if he ever tried to do it.

Its why I've always liked the Donner version of the death of Jonathan Kent, it served to show that lesson. There are some things he just can't stop.

I agree with that. Like I said, Superman Returns handled it very well IMO. It's not what he's saying that's so off, it's the way he says it. He seems to think stuff like this is just so damn cool. Killing Jimmy for no reason? It's fun! Superman teaching himself not to hear cries for help? That's wicked smart right?! I mean, jeez, the guy does himself no favors every time someone tries to step inside his head.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

BVS is officially the next-gen Phantom Menace

This. So much this. Hopefully we get a Mr. Plinkett review.

 

[Light]

Refer to my previous post. the same thing as the Force in Star Wars. You could literally use the Force to get yourself out of just about any situation or conflict. Thats always going to be a problem when dealing with someone so powerful.

And that's where good writers come into play, pay me the millions these guys are getting paid and me and my buddies will lock ourselves in a room and will emerge a month later (looking like we have been in the hyperbolic time chamber) with the script of all scripts for a Superman movie. It's not much to ask for to understand the dynamic of the character you are writing for and how they would respond in various scenarios.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

It's just getting to the point of being past ridiculous with how people are going at this film they supposedly really hate.

But can you blame them?

The first DC shared universe film, doesn't even have a 30 on Rottentomatoes, isn't a hit worldwide, and makes changes to the classic characters (mainly Batman)

WB can do better and have (The Harry Potter series)

Heck, Snyder's done better (Watchmen, 300, and his Owl movie are all more consistently well narrated than BvS).

 

[MrsKent26]

While Grant goes off into his usual (and wonderful) flights of fantasy in All Star Superman, he so so beautifully captures the essence of who the character is, down to the tips of his big red boots.

I mean, just look at this picture by Frank Quietely:

No posing. No pomposity. No chest thumping.

Just a humble man with a small, warm smile on his face, who also happens to be a god.

Indeed. If you look up superman in the dictionary, you should find this picture. Perfect. And you know what? With his skill at subtle physical acting, Cavill could pull this off.

And best of all...this is NEW for today's audience. People haven't seen this in a movie, at least for a very long time. So why not try it?

 

[Aquafinn90]

He knew Lois was going to be in the water looking for the Kryptonite spear? He knew that she had been kidnapped by Luthor and where they was? And the issue with Gotham and Metroplois being sister cities is any great threats to Gotham will now have the audience asking why doesn't Superman intervene since he is literally just across the bay. I don't mind situations like this but show that you have thought things out and have a relevant response to movie goers answers.

Lois drowning while getting the spear - she was in extremely close range. As for her rescues in Africa and Metropolis I would assume that he always has an ear out for Lois as she's clearly always getting into trouble. Its not a perfect explanation but unfortunately that just comes with the territory when you have someone with such powers.

 

[Predator jp]

defenders are defending everything and haters are complaining about everything. i'm stuck in the middle and enjoying the view. it's amussing.

 

[Aquafinn90]

And that's where good writers come into play, pay me the millions these guys are getting paid and me and my buddies will lock ourselves in a room and will emerge a month later (looking like we have been in the hyperbolic time chamber) with the script of all scripts for a Superman movie. It's not much to ask for to understand the dynamic of the character you are writing for and how they would respond in various scenarios.

I would LOVE to see you or anyone else have a "flawless" script that can get around ALL of Superman's powers without making the most absurd sounding script in the world. You'd be packing every script with nothing but ridiculous explanations for why Superman couldn't help every single cry for help.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

The truth is pretty much always in the middle of things. So between the generous audience scores of IMDB and Metacritic, and the bad legs and critic reception, I figure the film is somewhere in the middle. Which isn't a very good place to be as the DCU launching film.

 

[SuperAl]

to Gotham will now have the audience asking why doesn't Superman intervene since he is literally just across the bay. I don't mind situations like this but show that you have thought things out and have a relevant response to movie goers answers.

This is never addressed in the MCU either tho, literally all the heroes are in NY but none of them intervene in each others conflicts.

Its not addressed in the MCU it doesnt need to be address in the DCEU. Plus we are really only 1 movie into the DCEU so we dont know how theyll address this yet.

 

[FunkMiller]

Really?

You posted Morisson's Superman on the previous page, right?

Why's he just sitting there? He could be saving people.

Why does he even have the Clark Kent personality? Why not be Superman 24/7?

You may not want to deal with this, but it is the truth - Every iteration of Superman chooses to ignore the cries, otherwise it would drive him insane.

Because he's a good man (I think we can agree on that at least).

That is just the cover of the graphic novel...

Look, I get where you're coming from. I don't necessarily think we're on different pages when it comes to who Superman is, we just disagree on whether Zack Snyder knows who he is. You're willing to go with Snyder's darker, colder interpretation whereas I have a huge problem with it. I doubt we'll be able to reach a consensus.

It's the same as with the Batman no-kill issue. You are either willing to accept the broad changes Snyder makes or you're not.

Neither position is wrong.




...Snyder is though

 

[Spideyfan117]

The Lois one is simple. He knew where she was going to be. If they live together and Lois tells him she has an assignment in Africa, wel...

That doesn't really explain it. Unless Superman was just hanging around somewhere fairly close by, he wouldn't have known where Lois was. Even she didn't really know because she had a bag over her head.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I would LOVE to see you or anyone else have a "flawless" script that can get around ALL of Superman's powers without making the most absurd sounding script in the world. You'd be packing every script with nothing but ridiculous explanations for why Superman couldn't help every single cry for help.

Uh oh..the "think you could do better?" argument.

That's why screenwriters are PROFESSIONALS, that are DESIGNED to DO BETTER. When a regular joe thinks he or she can do better than that screenwriter, the screenwriter has failed in some way.

 

[Supernova]

The level of nitpicking today here on display is staggering

 

[FunkMiller]

It's amazing. This forum is insanely more entertaining than the movie itself. It's why I keep coming back.
.

Me too

Say what you like about it, BvS has stirred up one hell of a debate.

 

[Light]

Lois drowning while getting the spear - she was in extremely close range. As for her rescues in Africa and Metropolis I would assume that he always has an ear out for Lois as she's clearly always getting into trouble. Its not a perfect explanation but unfortunately that just comes with the territory when you have someone with such powers.

Your explanation doesn't hold up which just highlights what a poor plot point it is. You know a movie is bad when the supporters of it are constantly coming up with speculation and assumptions to fill in bits of the plot and patch up blatant errors in the story.

 

[SuperAl]

Indeed. If you look up superman in the dictionary, you should find this picture. Perfect. And you know what? With his skill at subtle physical acting, Cavill could pull this off.

And best of all...this is NEW for today's audience. People haven't seen this in a movie, at least for a very long time. So why not try it?

Personally id love an opening with a camera panning through the clouds and opening credits, coming up on a floating superman in front of the sun. Then Lois yelling at him that hes late for work and flying to the daily planet rooftop.

Im sure critics would complain that hes not using that time to rescue people though.

 

[FunkMiller]

The level of nitpicking today here on display is staggering

You need a hyphen between nit and picking.

And you forgot the full stop at the end of the sentence.


...and I'm just joking about.

 

[Light]

This is never addressed in the MCU either tho, literally all the heroes are in NY but none of them intervene in each others conflicts.

Its not addressed in the MCU it doesnt need to be address in the DCEU. Plus we are really only 1 movie into the DCEU so we dont know how theyll address this yet.

None of the characters in the MCU are Superman, look at Supermans abilities and capabilities. Trust me this is going to be an issue unless it's addressed in some manner.

 

[Supernova]

You need a hyphen between nit and picking.

And you forgot the full stop at the end of the sentence.


...and I'm just joking about.

Lol

 

[Light]

I would LOVE to see you or anyone else have a "flawless" script that can get around ALL of Superman's powers without making the most absurd sounding script in the world. You'd be packing every script with nothing but ridiculous explanations for why Superman couldn't help every single cry for help.

You wouldn't need to explain every little thing, just glaring plot holes that effect the plot in a big way like the Martha kidnapping did.