BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Aquafinn90]

If you need to research a movie before you go in to understand it, then it's a terrible script with terrible direction.

Guardians of the Galaxy is a relatively convoluted comic book, but the movie is easy to understand and requires no previous knowledge of the comic book.

At this point, people are just making excuses for BvS's shortcomings.

well I disagree that you need to research this movie before you watch it. So I'm confused as to why he said that

 

[javonstokess]

not true at all, as well how do you know its a terrible script and directing if you havent even seen it yet as movie goer going in?

...that's my point. If i go to a movie and I don't understand it because I "didn't do research before" then that means the filmmakers did a terrible job.

Gaurdians was a very basic scifi story and easy to get into as a viewer for anyone and pretty straight forward unlike this movie which had alot going on. Also why the villian was generic and I know alot of people who had no idea who he or thanos were. The only hurdle that movie had to face was getting people to believe in a talking racoin and tree.

Shortcomings? Please enlighten me outisde of the ussual nitpicking ive heard online.

Sigh, you asked for it:
-Lex Luthor isn't Lex Luthor, he's a weird hybrid of the Joker and Riddler
-The editing is awful
-Superman is almost unrecognizable in regards to his character
-The Batman is basically "the Punisher in a Bat mask".
-Wonder Woman has no point in the movie besides "show up and fight at the end". You could literally pull her out the movie and it'll be the same movie.
-None of the characters actions make sense. Batman continues to try and kill Superman even though he's well aware that Luthor is the real bad guy. Superman essentially is pretty unintelligent about every move. Luthor's motivations are clear, yet his actions do nothing to back them up.
-There is zero point in the fight between Superman and Batman happening.
-The forced Justice League set up ruins the pace and tone of the movie.
-The script is awful. "Do you bleed"..? Ugh.

I could go on, but It's more and more depressing to think about it.

 

[Supernova]

well I disagree that you need to research this movie before you watch it. So I'm confused as to why he said that

Im talking researching tie ins, setups to other movies and easter eggs etc. not the movie itself

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

First calmn down I never said if someone agrees or disagrees with me they need to be educated, I said alittle research is required from viewers going in.

umm yes you did.

People really do like this film, its just there is a bigger portion of the GA who need to be educated and better prepared for what these films are gonna be and who the lesse known characters are.

Im not saying anyone is dumb or stupid, Im saying if people like my wife saw the film and got the motivations and what the characters were trying to do but had questions about tie ins and easter eggs.

How many people really knew who the hell thanos was at the end of avengers one? Im willing to bet alot people went home and googled him or asked there friends for more insight. Especially once they saw or heard of the infinty gauntlet.

there is a difference between people researching easter eggs or fan nods after a film is complete than what you were looking for. you said your self you watch trailers, read story plots, know the backgrounds of every character all before the film hits cinemas

while thats well in good if you have an interest in the background of a film it should never be required to do so. if that is required then the film and its writers have not done the job of telling a cohesive story with aspects that can be used to broaden into a bigger story. this is the same criticisms that both IM2 and AOU suffered, so its not just BvS getting them or synder hate

the main difference is though both the marvel movies were able to tell a single story without jumping around with random plot elements like a kid who just ate a whole pound of sugar

 

[Supernova]

...that's my point. If i go to a movie and I don't understand it because I "didn't do research before" then that means the filmmakers did a terrible job.



Sigh, you asked for it:
-Lex Luthor isn't Lex Luthor, he's a weird hybrid of the Joker and Riddler
-The editing is awful
-Superman is almost unrecognizable in regards to his character
-The Batman is basically "the Punisher in a Bat mask".
-Wonder Woman has no point in the movie besides "show up and fight at the end". You could literally pull her out the movie and it'll be the same movie.
-None of the characters actions make sense. Batman continues to try and kill Superman even though he's well aware that Luthor is the real bad guy. Superman essentially is pretty unintelligent about every move. Luthor's motivations are clear, yet his actions do nothing to back them up.
-There is zero point in the fight between Superman and Batman happening.
-The forced Justice League set up ruins the pace and tone of the movie.
-The script is awful. "Do you bleed"..? Ugh.

I could go on, but It's more and more depressing to think about it.

Sigh, you asked for it:

-Lex Luthor isn't Lex Luthor, he's a weird hybrid of the Joker and Riddler

Well he is a young lex and yes he was more riddler joker like but I liked the approach, was spacey and hackman any better honestly with there up and down tones?

-The editing is awful
Im reserving judgement until the bluray on editing because you can tell where certain scenes were sliced together due to what was cut out.

-Superman is almost unrecognizable in regards to his character

A boy scout in bright blue and red tights fighting for truth justice and nthe american way? Sorry but this isnt the 80's anymore. You gotta try new things.

-The Batman is basically "the Punisher in a Bat mask".

thats the first im hearing of this, maybe considering batman is near retirement and tired of all of it by this point and lost his way

-Wonder Woman has no point in the movie besides "show up and fight at the end". You could literally pull her out the movie and it'll be the same movie.

Story wise no, world building wise yes she does

-None of the characters actions make sense. Batman continues to try and kill Superman even though he's well aware that Luthor is the real bad guy. Superman essentially is pretty unintelligent about every move. Luthor's motivations are clear, yet his actions do nothing to back them up.

He may know luthor is a bad guy but he is not the immediate threat like he feels superman is, batman has been gunning for him for 18 months as told in the movie.
Again how all over the place was hackman and spacey? Hackman wanted to own australia and spacey wanted to create real estate island of kryptonite, how evil.

-There is zero point in the fight between Superman and Batman happening.
Batman believed superman was a threat and wanted to take him out.

-The forced Justice League set up ruins the pace and tone of the movie.

But if marvel forces setups its ok? Like how it weighed down age of ultron?

-The script is awful. "Do you bleed"..? Ugh.

Yet its qouted everywhere and gets claps from theater experiences told. The script was fine

 

[Supernova]

umm yes you did.





there is a difference between people researching easter eggs or fan nods after a film is complete than what you were looking for. you said your self you watch trailers, read story plots, know the backgrounds of every character all before the film hits cinemas

while thats well in good if you have an interest in the background of a film it should never be required to do so. if that is required then the film and its writers have not done the job of telling a cohesive story with aspects that can be used to broaden into a bigger story. this is the same criticisms that both IM2 and AOU suffered, so its not just BvS getting them or synder hate

the main difference is though both the marvel movies were able to tell a single story without jumping around with random plot elements like a kid who just ate a whole pound of sugar

i said twice now im talking about easter eggs and tie ins and setups for reasearch, im not saying reasearch the actual movie and its story. Im talking the justice league stuff which my wife had questions about


Yes the ga does need to be educated better on these future characters. Whether it be interviews from the producers or what not. The dc films special a couple months ago on cw was perfect for the masses to watch.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

If only the movies themselves were able to explain those things...

It's not supposed to. It's supposed to be a cliffhanger. Who is this flash guy? Who is coming? What's going on??? I better watch SS, WW and JL to find out!

That's the entire point. Once all of the movies are out, the entire story along with the characters will all fit together.

And the movie clearly explained things as some people are not confused in the slightest.

 

[Predator jp]

what i don't understand is that why they keep doing this forced setup thing after AMS2, IM2, and AoU got criticized because of it.

 

[DoomRulz]

^Because they need to catch-up with Marvel. Simple as.

I didn't think this warranted its own thread so I'll ask it here. Who wins in a fight? Batfleck or Hardy's Bane? I read in an article somewhere online not too long ago that Hardy's Bane wouldn't last against Batfleck.

 

[Supernova]

what i don't understand is that why they keep doing this forced setup thing after AMS2, IM2, and AoU got criticized because of it.

Because telling focused stand alone stories is no longer a viable option. Everything has to be connected and share a giant universe. Deadpool was refeshing however because it was standalone. Remember when making a trilogy for one character was the rage not anymore thx to marvel

 

[Supernova]

^Because they need to catch-up with Marvel. Simple as.

I didn't think this warranted its own thread so I'll ask it here. Who wins in a fight? Batfleck or Hardy's Bane? I read in an article somewhere online not too long ago that Hardy's Bane wouldn't last against Batfleck.

It would be good to see i know that

 

[Aquafinn90]

what i don't understand is that why they keep doing this forced setup thing after AMS2, IM2, and AoU got criticized because of it.

Well I disagree that it felt forced. Yes they were introducing a lot, however I think it all fit in well in the plot of the movie.

 

[javonstokess]

Sigh, you asked for it:

-Lex Luthor isn't Lex Luthor, he's a weird hybrid of the Joker and Riddler

Well he is a young lex and yes he was more riddler joker like but I liked the approach, was spacey and hackman any better honestly with there up and down tones?

If you liked that approach that's fine, doesn't make it the correct one. Has scene chewing as Spacey and Hackman was, they weren't raving lunatics

-The editing is awful
Im reserving judgement until the bluray on editing because you can tell where certain scenes were sliced together due to what was cut out.

If you have to wait for the "director's cut" to fix your issues, then you failed

-Superman is almost unrecognizable in regards to his character

A boy scout in bright blue and red tights fighting for truth justice and nthe american way? Sorry but this isnt the 80's anymore. You gotta try new things.

...but that's Superman. 80's or not, that's the character. I guess it's about time for Spidey to start snapping necks and suffocating criminals with his webbing cause "it ain't the 80's anymore".

-The Batman is basically "the Punisher in a Bat mask".

thats the first im hearing of this, maybe considering batman is near retirement and tired of all of it by this point and lost his way

Near retirement or not, the character of Batman doesn't kill. Even in TDKR, which Snyder is basing his version on, Batman doesn't kill.

-Wonder Woman has no point in the movie besides "show up and fight at the end". You could literally pull her out the movie and it'll be the same movie.

Story wise no, world building wise yes she does

If you can't world build within the context of the film, then don't do it.

-None of the characters actions make sense. Batman continues to try and kill Superman even though he's well aware that Luthor is the real bad guy. Superman essentially is pretty unintelligent about every move. Luthor's motivations are clear, yet his actions do nothing to back them up.

He may know luthor is a bad guy but he is not the immediate threat like he feels superman is, batman has been gunning for him for 18 months as told in the movie.
Again how all over the place was hackman and spacey? Hackman wanted to own australia and spacey wanted to create real estate island of kryptonite, how evil.

So Luthor's not the immediate threat even though he just blew up the Senate building and stole Kryptonite, but Superman is who's flying around the world saving people? Gotcha.

-There is zero point in the fight between Superman and Batman happening.
Batman believed superman was a threat and wanted to take him out.

See answer above.

-The forced Justice League set up ruins the pace and tone of the movie.

But if marvel forces setups its ok? Like how it weighed down age of ultron?

And when Marvel did it (in AOU and Iron Man 2) people criticized them as well.

-The script is awful. "Do you bleed"..? Ugh.

Yet its qouted everywhere and gets claps from theater experiences told. The script was fine

I did not hear one clap in the theater I went to and literally everyone I know (which of course is just a sample size) thought it was hammy and out of character.

 

[javonstokess]

i said twice now im talking about easter eggs and tie ins and setups for reasearch, im not saying reasearch the actual movie and its story. Im talking the justice league stuff which my wife had questions about


Yes the ga does need to be educated better on these future characters. Whether it be interviews from the producers or what not. The dc films special a couple months ago on cw was perfect for the masses to watch.

How much education do you need to watch WW2 movies or Sherlock Holmes movies or James Bond movies?

 

[Predator jp]

^Because they need to catch-up with Marvel. Simple as.

it's not just DC, Marvel did AoU after IM2 after all.

 

[Poni_Boy]

How much education do you need to watch WW2 movies or Sherlock Holmes movies or James Bond movies?

If you demand your audience does homework before or after watching your movie to fully understand your movie, you're a crappy filmmaker. That's the equivalent of making a French film and showing it to an American audience without subtitles using the "well you should have learned French" excuse as to why they don't understand it.

 

[Supernova]

How much education do you need to watch WW2 movies or Sherlock Holmes movies or James Bond movies?

Well ww2 was taught in most schools growing up with homework assignment etc, the other 2 have best selling books throughout history

 

[Aquafinn90]

Wait the dialogue is being criticized? I thought it was genius and far and away the best dialogue for any CBM, and stands very well on its own even if it wasn't a CBM

 

[javonstokess]

Alot actually given One was a historical event with tons of documentaries not to mention years of it taught in school growing up. The other two have famous literature galore fans have been digesting and reading for years. So bad comparisons but all 3 of your examples have quite a bit knowledge already going in

C'mon man...

It's filmmaking 101: Give your audience everything they need to know within your film.

 

[javonstokess]

Wait the dialogue is being criticized? I thought it was genius and far and away the best dialogue for any CBM, and stands very well on its own even if it wasn't a CBM

So you thought Bruce's rant about if Superman has even a 1% chance of being evil then he needs to be killed was good writing?

 

[Aquafinn90]

So you thought Bruce's rant about if Superman has even a 1% chance of being evil then he needs to be killed was good writing?

That was a phenomenal piece of both writing and acting. And this is the first I'm hearing someone not liking that scene. Unless you having a issue with it because its Batman saying he wants to Kill, which I would understand, though I have zero issues with.

 

[Supernova]

C'mon man...

It's filmmaking 101: Give your audience everything they need to know within your film.

For the story told they did, again im talking about the justice league setup stuff

 

[Aquafinn90]

For the story told they did, again im talking about the justice league setup stuff

I would disagree that it needs research. It was meant to setup for Justice League and I have no reason to think that after Justice League comes out anybody will need to research anything

 

[Poni_Boy]

That was a phenomenal piece of both writing and acting. And this is the first I'm hearing someone not liking that scene. Unless you having a issue with it because its Batman saying he wants to Kill, which I would understand, though I have zero issues with.

I didn't like it either. It made no sense in the context of the movie, had no resolution and didn't fit the character. It "sounded good" is pretty irrelevant to me. If you had the characters in Pulp Fiction spout off Hamlet prose it would "sound good" regardless how it fit into the movie. Context is everything.

 

[javonstokess]

That was a phenomenal piece of both writing and acting. And this is the first I'm hearing someone not liking that scene. Unless you having a issue with it because its Batman saying he wants to Kill, which I would understand, though I have zero issues with.

But it doesn't make sense. Everyone has AT LEAST 1% chance of being evil. Does that mean you kill everyone?