BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Kane52630]

I rather have Arnold come back as Mr Freeze then Eisenberg come back as Lex.

Same.

 

[souperman]

Alright guys let's cool it with the puns.

now we're not allowed to be phunny ?

 

[Keyser Sushi]

it was pretty evident that he hates superman

- What else would you call the mother of a winged demon?
- You don't need to forge a silver bullet. But if you do, you don't need to depend on the kindness of monsters.
- God is tribal, God takes sides! If God is all-powerful He can not be good, if God is good He can not be all-powerful!
- We know better now, don't we? Devils don't come from hell beneath us. They come from the sky.
- the whole waving a flower to tyrants story of his father

called him a tyarant,a winged demon,a monster,and a devil seriously what else do they need to say to show you how lex feels about superman.

Yes.

The movie also clearly lays out that Lex's dad abused him, and that because of this Lex does not trust power. "Do you know the greatest lie in America, senator? That power can be innocent." He distrusts power, and Superman has ALL of the power, and therefore all of Lex's distrust. Lex and Bruce are both orphans who felt powerless once and have found different ways of dealing with it. Superman makes them both feel that powerlessness again, his very presence rips open the scars. It's all in the movie, it ain't rocket science to just pay attention to a movie and apply a minimum of brainpower to reasoning through what you are seeing. Some of us do it sort of by default...

 

[souperman]

it was pretty evident that he hates superman

- What else would you call the mother of a winged demon?
- You don't need to forge a silver bullet. But if you do, you don't need to depend on the kindness of monsters.
- God is tribal, God takes sides! If God is all-powerful He can not be good, if God is good He can not be all-powerful!
- We know better now, don't we? Devils don't come from hell beneath us. They come from the sky.
- the whole waving a flower to tyrants story of his father

called him a tyarant,a winged demon,a monster,and a devil seriously what else do they need to say to show you how lex feels about superman.

And the way he says talking to Sen Finch trying to get the import license:
" yes Superman...but there are more.." He says it with such disdain and disgust and jealousy. That kind of says it all.

 

[souperman]

Yes.

The movie also clearly lays out that Lex's dad abused him, and that because of this Lex does not trust power. "Do you know the greatest lie in America, senator? That power can be innocent." He distrusts power, and Superman has ALL of the power, and therefore all of Lex's distrust. Lex and Bruce are both orphans who felt powerless once and have found different ways of dealing with it. Superman makes them both feel that powerlessness again, his very presence rips open the scars. It's all in the movie, it ain't rocket science to just pay attention to a movie and apply a minimum of brainpower to reasoning through what you are seeing. Some of us do it sort of by default...

sorry...I lost you after yes...

 

[souperman]

they are plugging BvS a lot here late night tv spots tonight!

Have not seen too many ads this past week but now a flurry.

 

[Light]

Wow that's great, the acting is a little off but I liked what it was trying to do and how it was portraying Superman.

 

[Petelancer]

Poorly portrayed, shoddily written and rushed. It had potential but was just such a mess at the end. Anyone with a minimum amount of brainpower could see it. Some of us just know when a film is crap by default. But that's ok, if it makes you feel better to sleep soundly at night to be condescending to others because not many liked your precious little film as it turned out to be a massive disappointment with terrible writing, terrible editing, horrible motivations, illogical contradictory points through out, and was just boring as all hell through out then that's ok

There are some good ideas in there. Just a few in a sea of $250 million of excess and waste.

Seems like the majority of Americans and Chinese have something they really agree on after some time... That this film was total crap

 

[NotSoLongAgo]

That's how you do it!

 

[Keyser Sushi]

Poorly portrayed, shoddily written and rushed. It had potential but was just such a mess at the end. Anyone with a minimum amount of brainpower could see it. Some of us just know when a film is crap by default. But that's ok, if it makes you feel better to sleep soundly at night to be condescending to others because not many liked your precious little film as it turned out to be a massive disappointment with terrible writing, terrible editing, horrible motivations, illogical contradictory points through out, and was just boring as all hell through out then that's ok

There are some good ideas in there. Just a few in a sea of $250 million of excess and waste.

Seems like the majority of Americans and Chinese have something they really agree on after some time... That this film was total crap

Who's being condescending? We're talking specifics and you're talking in broad, sweeping terms that don't mean anything. And trying to insult me as if I'm in any way responsible for making the film, or for your not liking it. I happen to like the film. I also happen to have very clear, logical responses to the majority of the criticisms that can be leveled at it. I'm not saying the movie is perfect, I'm saying you're making stuff up to justify your opinion, as opposed to backing up your opinion with facts.

So you can try again to respond to my points with any kind of rational thought, or you can admit that you're making stuff up and go away.

Or you can just go away. I don't really care. Bottom line, if one of us is a troll, it's probably the guy under the bridge. But hey, whatever keeps the rain off you.

 

[matt47]

And the way he says talking to Sen Finch trying to get the import license:
" yes Superman...but there are more.." He says it with such disdain and disgust and jealousy. That kind of says it all.

That was the one time I thought he did a good job playing Lex Luthor in this movie.

 

[souperman]

Thanks for the belly laugh before bed you two...
(pete and not so long)

too funny...

 

[souperman]

That was the one time I thought he did a good job playing Lex Luthor in this movie.

If you accept this Lex as a cray cray, he did a great job throughout.

Like I have said, not a huge fan of JE but understanding the crazy this Lex is helps.

I still think there is the potential that we may see daddy Lex come in at some point. Sounds much more ruthless and tough.

 

[Petelancer]

He distrusts power and those who have it yet ultimately wants all the power to himself... Makes no sense since there's hardly background to explain anything about him.

He ******edly unleashes Doomsday. For what means? To what end. There is no end goal in sight for him except killing Superman. Then what. He still will have Doomsday to handle LOL. At least with other villains there is the classic plot motive of wanting to destroy the world cue to huge destroying monster. With Lex there is nothing to explain anything of what he's doing. It's total utter crap. Thats ok though Keyser, continue trolling away because none of your arguments made any sense or stood ground

 

[matt47]

If you accept this Lex as a cray cray, he did a great job throughout.

Like I have said, not a huge fan of JE but understanding the crazy this Lex is helps.

I still think there is the potential that we may see daddy Lex come in at some point. Sounds much more ruthless and tough.

Basically if I accept Jesse as not playing the character of Lex it's a great job lol.

 

[souperman]

He distrusts power and those who have it yet ultimately wants all the power to himself... Makes no sense since there's hardly background to explain anything about him.

He ******edly unleashes Doomsday. For what means? To what end. There is no end goal in sight for him except killing Superman. Then what. He still will have Doomsday to handle LOL. At least with other villains there is the classic plot motive of wanting to destroy the world cue to huge destroying monster. With Lex there is nothing to explain anything of what he's doing. It's total utter crap. Thats ok though Keyser, continue trolling away because none of your arguments made any sense or stood ground

In STM, Lex unleashes 2 nuclear missiles. His plan is to destroy California and have it fall into the ocean so the cheap land he purchased in the desert will then be ocean front property...

Won't he then need to contend with the nuclear fallout? Who will he be selling this land to exactly? All the people he killed on both coasts and the rest of the country?

This makes better sense I'm sure...

But we loved it ! t:

 

[souperman]

Basically if I accept Jesse as not playing the character of Lex it's a great job lol.

See, now you will sleep better...


At least this one didn't want to be ruler of home town! Be grateful...

 

[Keyser Sushi]

He distrusts power and those who have it yet ultimately wants all the power to himself... Makes no sense since there's hardly background to explain anything about him.

What do you mean? I just explained it to you, it's all in the movie. He talks about his dad punching him (and possibly doing even more unfortunate things to him...) so you know he's got daddy issues. He talks about how God didn't save him when that was going on, so he believes that God can't be both all good and all-powerful, but only one or the other. So that's another seed of distrust for power. And god-figures, of which Superman is certainly one. So it's obvious that he projects his anger towards God onto Superman, as well as his daddy issues (God is, after all, traditionally referred to as father).

It's possible that the half-hour of deleted scenes had more Lex stuff in it, but really, how is it difficult to understand a character's psychological motivations when he lays it out for you in literally EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION HE HAS IN THE MOVIE WITH ANYBODY EVER.

Did you know that in real life, victims of abuse often become abusers themselves? That's why they say that abuse is something you pass on. It's fairly common knowledge, and it's also what Terrio and Snyder do with Lex here, in larger scale. He was tormented and now he's becoming a tormentor, a tormentor to the ultimate authority figure, a surrogate God, a stand-in for the biggest daddy of all. It's all in the movie, I just told you that. Twice.

You can insist that there's no background there to explain it but he literally talks about it every single time he opens his mouth, dude. It's the entire character.

He ******edly unleashes Doomsday. For what means? To what end. There is no end goal in sight for him except killing Superman. Then what. He still will have Doomsday to handle LOL. At least with other villains there is the classic plot motive of wanting to destroy the world cue to huge destroying monster. With Lex there is nothing to explain anything of what he's doing. It's total utter crap. Thats ok though Keyser, continue trolling away because none of your arguments made any sense or stood ground

Lex spent the whole movie trying to turn public opinion against Superman, to destroy his image in order to take him down. I think Doomsday was exactly what his name would imply. Lex talked to Senator Finch about "deterrants," which is the language traditionally associated with nuclear missiles, i.e. the entire Cold War where Russia had nukes aimed at the US and the US had nukes aimed at Russia and nobody would dare launch the nukes because it meant the other side would launch theirs too and pretty soon everybody ends up dead. Doomsday.

So I think the point of Doomsday was that, if Lex couldn't have his deterrent, if he couldn't control "god" or make him bend to his will, then he would kill this surrogate god, even if it meant destroying everything else along with him. When people are angry at God, where do they turn? What does Lex say when he unleashes Doomsday? "If man won't kill God, the devil will do it!" He knows he's destroying everything. He simply does not care. That's how much he hates Superman and everything that Superman represents to him.

Look, I know it's not the Lex we know from the comics. Or the animated series, or probably anywhere else. But that doesn't mean there isn't a logic to what they did. You're free not to like it, that's a matter of opinion and everybody has opinions. Nobody can take that away from you. But just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's stupid or poorly done. Believe it or not your opinion doesn't define the world for anybody other than you.

 

[chintai80]

What do you mean? I just explained it to you, it's all in the movie. He talks about his dad punching him (and possibly doing even more unfortunate things to him...) so you know he's got daddy issues. He talks about how God didn't save him when that was going on, so he believes that God can't be both all good and all-powerful, but only one or the other. So that's another seed of distrust for power. And god-figures, of which Superman is certainly one. So it's obvious that he projects his anger towards God onto Superman, as well as his daddy issues (God is, after all, traditionally referred to as father).

It's possible that the half-hour of deleted scenes had more Lex stuff in it, but really, how is it difficult to understand a character's psychological motivations when he lays it out for you in literally EVERY SINGLE CONVERSATION HE HAS IN THE MOVIE WITH ANYBODY EVER.

Did you know that in real life, victims of abuse often become abusers themselves? That's why they say that abuse is something you pass on. It's fairly common knowledge, and it's also what Terrio and Snyder do with Lex here, in larger scale. He was tormented and now he's becoming a tormentor, a tormentor to the ultimate authority figure, a surrogate God, a stand-in for the biggest daddy of all. It's all in the movie, I just told you that. Twice.

You can insist that there's no background there to explain it but he literally talks about it every single time he opens his mouth, dude. It's the entire character.



Lex spent the whole movie trying to turn public opinion against Superman, to destroy his image in order to take him down. I think Doomsday was exactly what his name would imply. Lex talked to Senator Finch about "deterrants," which is the language traditionally associated with nuclear missiles, i.e. the entire Cold War where Russia had nukes aimed at the US and the US had nukes aimed at Russia and nobody would dare launch the nukes because it meant the other side would launch theirs too and pretty soon everybody ends up dead. Doomsday.

So I think the point of Doomsday was that, if Lex couldn't have his deterrent, if he couldn't control "god" or make him bend to his will, then he would kill this surrogate god, even if it meant destroying everything else along with him. When people are angry at God, where do they turn? What does Lex say when he unleashes Doomsday? "If man won't kill God, the devil will do it!" He knows he's destroying everything. He simply does not care. That's how much he hates Superman and everything that Superman represents to him.

Look, I know it's not the Lex we know from the comics. Or the animated series, or probably anywhere else. But that doesn't mean there isn't a logic to what they did. You're free not to like it, that's a matter of opinion and everybody has opinions. Nobody can take that away from you. But just because you don't like something, doesn't mean it's stupid or poorly done. Believe it or not your opinion doesn't define the world for anybody other than you.

i sorta think this version of lex was meant to be portrayed as emotionally and psychologically imbalanced from the start.
so combined that with being a genius with a sense of entitlement -- he's going to make some decisions that are extreme, to say the least.

he unleashes doomsday because he's already gone off the deep end by that point -- from his rage against superman + his exposure to the scout ship's knowledge.
doomsday was lex's scorched earth policy -- at least that's how i interpreted it when i saw the movie.

not to say i think it was developed well though, because i thought it was handled clumsily...it does make lex come off as stupid though...yet unhinged too (and i think that's what the story was trying to say -- that lex has gone nuts -- the mad scientist).

 

[Keyser Sushi]

i sorta think this version of lex was meant to be portrayed as emotionally and psychologically imbalanced from the start.
so combined that with being a genius with a sense of entitlement -- he's going to make some decisions that are extreme, to say the least.

he unleashes doomsday because he's already gone off the deep end by that point -- from his rage against superman + his exposure to the scout ship's knowledge.
doomsday was lex's scorched earth policy -- at least that's how i interpreted it when i saw the movie.

not to say i think it was developed well though, because i thought it was handled clumsily...it does make lex come off as stupid though...yet unhinged too (and i think that's what the story was trying to say -- that lex has gone nuts -- the mad scientist).

That part I bolded...is exactly the point I was making as well.

That's a good point about the scout ship, too, because as we saw in the deleted scene that they released, he's seen some scary stuff... for a guy who fears power, knowing what's out there...would be enough to push him way, way, far way over the edge.

 

[chintai80]

yea, its obvious he's freaked out by something and lost his mind at the end when batman confronts him in jail.

he's going off about alien paranoia...so when i was watching it in the theater, i was connecting it to probably something he saw when he told the scout ship to show him "everything."

the deleted scene w/ the alien solidifies that.

 

[Verick808]

He distrusts power and those who have it yet ultimately wants all the power to himself... Makes no sense since there's hardly background to explain anything about him.

He ******edly unleashes Doomsday. For what means? To what end. There is no end goal in sight for him except killing Superman. Then what. He still will have Doomsday to handle LOL. At least with other villains there is the classic plot motive of wanting to destroy the world cue to huge destroying monster. With Lex there is nothing to explain anything of what he's doing. It's total utter crap. Thats ok though Keyser, continue trolling away because none of your arguments made any sense or stood ground

I won't lie, the doomsday thing is a face palm for me. However, I don't see how distrusting those who have power is contradictory to wanting power. It's pretty obvious you'd want more power than anyone else if you don't trust them.
His father grew up oppressed before moving to America and gaining power. There he oppressed Lex who eventually gained power and we saw how Lex is. He's the living proof of his own theory. Another corrupted power with the rest of the world waving flowers at him, even if they don't know it. He'd rather be the corrupt and in contol than powerless and oppressed. That's just the way the world is in his eyes.
So obviously when a greater power comes he isn't going to feel comfortable. He's powerless. Just like his father was in East Germany. Just like he was living under his father. If Superman ever chose to be could destroy everything Lex had and grind him into dust. That alone is enough for Lex to want Superman gone.

 

[Keyser Sushi]

I won't lie, the doomsday thing is a face palm for me. However, I don't see how distrusting those who have power is contradictory to wanting power. It's pretty obvious you'd want more power than anyone else if you don't trust them.
His father grew up oppressed before moving to America and gaining power. There he oppressed Lex who eventually gained power and we saw how Lex is. He's the living proof of his own theory. Another corrupted power with the rest of the world waving flowers at him, even if they don't know it. He'd rather be the corrupt and in contol than powerless and oppressed. That's just the way the world is in his eyes.
So obviously when a greater power comes he isn't going to feel comfortable. He's powerless. Just like his father was in East Germany. Just like he was living under his father. If Superman ever chose to be could destroy everything Lex had and grind him into dust. That alone is enough for Lex to want Superman gone.

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the sound of Verick driving one deep into the stands at left-center.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

it was pretty evident that he hates superman

- What else would you call the mother of a winged demon?
- You don't need to forge a silver bullet. But if you do, you don't need to depend on the kindness of monsters.
- God is tribal, God takes sides! If God is all-powerful He can not be good, if God is good He can not be all-powerful!
- We know better now, don't we? Devils don't come from hell beneath us. They come from the sky.
- the whole waving a flower to tyrants story of his father

called him a tyarant,a winged demon,a monster,and a devil seriously what else do they need to say to show you how lex feels about superman.

This deleted scene

Takes a huge dump on that motive.

We can all be thankful this crap was not included in the movie.

 

[Aquafinn90]

His evil motivations are poorly portrayed and so much is reliant on the viewer to just know and accept thst luthor is evil. Such lazy poor writing.

I thought Jesse did a brilliant take on Lex when he had Superman at his mercy on the helipad. That was a great scene

I really don't get this. He quite literally outlines his entire motivation to Superman on the roof, yet everyone says he has no motivations,