BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Supernova]

I would disagree that it needs research. It was meant to setup for Justice League and I have no reason to think that after Justice League comes out anybody will need to research anything

Which I Agree with but were in a society where everyone wants it now and cant wait which is sad

 

[Predator jp]

But it doesn't make sense. Everyone has AT LEAST 1% chance of being evil. Does that mean you kill everyone?

yeah but not everyone has the power to wipe out the entire planet.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I would disagree that it needs research. It was meant to setup for Justice League and I have no reason to think that after Justice League comes out anybody will need to research anything

That's bad storytelling in the film medium. It just is. Even with trilogies like LOTR, TDK and BTTF the independent films have resolution for their main plot threads. You don't need one to satisfy the other, only expound on them.

 

[Supernova]

But it doesn't make sense. Everyone has AT LEAST 1% chance of being evil. Does that mean you kill everyone?

Not everyone has godlike powers and destroyed half a city resulting in bruces own employees being killed

 

[Aquafinn90]

That's bad storytelling in the film medium. It just is. Even with trilogies like LOTR, TDK and BTTF the independent films have resolution for their main plot threads. You don't need one to satisfy the other, only expound on them.

Again, I disagree. I love the tease for future films. Especially since I would hardly consider the Justice League setup as a "main plot thread" in BVS that demands resolution. It served its purpose that Bruce and WW know that others are out there. We have only the information that Bruce and WW were presented with.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Not everyone has godlike powers and destroyed half a city resulting in bruces own employees being killed

So why isn't Bruce taking out countries with nuclear weapons? Or terrorist factions who kill thousands? The "1%" thing sounds great, but doesn't make sense in the context of the story. It's not even resolved.

 

[Aquafinn90]

So why isn't Bruce taking out countries with nuclear weapons? Or terrorist factions who kill thousands? The "1%" thing sounds great, but doesn't make sense in the context of the story. It's not even resolved.

how is it not resolved? At the end he realizes Superman's humanity and that he's NOT bad guy

 

[Poni_Boy]

Again, I disagree. I love the tease for future films. Especially since I would hardly consider the Justice League setup as a "main plot thread" in BVS that demands resolution. It served its purpose that Bruce and WW know that others are out there. We have only the information that Bruce and WW were presented with.

It serves its purpose to you, comic book reader and fan of these characters in other mediums. That doesn't make it a good story, it makes it a fan-service heavy one.

If I handed you the middle three issues of a five issue comic miniseries featuring characters you're not familiar with, is it your fault you don't understand the complete story? No, it's mine, for not giving you the complete story.

 

[Supernova]

That's bad storytelling in the film medium. It just is. Even with trilogies like LOTR, TDK and BTTF the independent films have resolution for their main plot threads. You don't need one to satisfy the other, only expound on them.

Well your 3 movies are cinematic masterpieces with focused stories and not trying to setup 8 other films.

 

[javonstokess]

Not everyone has godlike powers and destroyed half a city resulting in bruces own employees being killed

...but the World's Greatest detective isn't smart enough to find out that said individual actually STOPPED the other group of godlike beings who ACTUALLY destroyed the city and killed Bruce's employees?

"Twisting the character to fit the story". Another point of bad writing.

 

[Aquafinn90]

It serves its purpose to you, comic book reader and fan of these characters in other mediums. That doesn't make it a good story, it makes it a fan-service heavy one.

If I handed you the middle three issues of a five issue comic miniseries featuring characters you're not familiar with, is it your fault you don't understand the complete story? No, it's mine, for not giving you the complete story.

I'm not a comic book reader or fan of these characters in other mediums. at all. In fact I've never read a comic book in my life. I am a huge movie fan, and I look at these as movies, not as adaptations of Comic Book characters.

 

[Poni_Boy]

how is it not resolved? At the end he realizes Superman's humanity and that he's NOT bad guy

What does Superman's humanity have to do with being a threat? Again, logic:

Superman is a global threat, global threats must be destroyed, therefore Superman must be destroyed

That is the first half of the movie. The second half forgets that and resolves it by saying:

Superman is a global threat, Superman has a mother, therefore Superman is no longer a global threat

Makes no logical sense

 

[Supernova]

So why isn't Bruce taking out countries with nuclear weapons? Or terrorist factions who kill thousands? The "1%" thing sounds great, but doesn't make sense in the context of the story. It's not even resolved.

Well bruce is confined to gotham for the most part and cant get around fast like superman can.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I'm not a comic book reader or fan of these characters in other mediums. at all. In fact I've never read a comic book in my life. I am a huge movie fan, and I look at these as movies, not as adaptations of Comic Book characters.

Ok so answer me this: Who is Alfred in this movie?

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Sigh, you asked for it:

-Lex Luthor isn't Lex Luthor, he's a weird hybrid of the Joker and Riddler

In what versions of Joker and Riddler are they a powerful Metropolis business man that's sole motivation is to rid the world of Superman? The only Joker thing Lex did was the Granny's Peach Tea nod before the bomb. His word play was unique and very rich, which is why I assume you mistook his dialog as riddles. They weren't.

-The editing is awful

I've seen this mentioned before but haven't heard of any examples. Got a few?

-Superman is almost unrecognizable in regards to his character

Really? Wanting to do the right thing because he can essentially defines Superman. He was saving people from floods, fires, explosions, cats out of trees... makes the ultimate sacrifice TWICE in this movie for the people of Earth. He's in the suit with his big S on it. He looks like Superman. He sounds like Superman. He is Superman.

-The Batman is basically "the Punisher in a Bat mask".

That's silly. When has the punisher handcuffed criminals to get picked up by cops? He wasn't going around executing people. The hyperbole is strong with this one.

-Wonder Woman has no point in the movie besides "show up and fight at the end". You could literally pull her out the movie and it'll be the same movie.

Wonder Woman is the key to figuring out that Lex Luthor is researching meta humans. She knows this and because of that, the audience AND Batman now know this. You can literally pull a bunch of characters out of a lot of movies and have no impact. Why is this a bad thing? You can pull Chewie out of Star Wars and never miss a beat.

-None of the characters actions make sense. Batman continues to try and kill Superman even though he's well aware that Luthor is the real bad guy. Superman essentially is pretty unintelligent about every move. Luthor's motivations are clear, yet his actions do nothing to back them up.

I'm sorry you weren't able to pick up on motivations. How was Batman aware that Luthor is the real bad guy? To him, Luthor is just another human villain that is also interested in taking out Superman. All Batman knows of Luthor is that he's got goons working for him and has found Kryptonite.

How is Superman unintelligent throughout the movie? He learns who Batman is. He makes the ultimate sacrifice. I don't understand what you mean here.

Everything Lex does matches his motivations. I am confused as to what you mean here too.

-There is zero point in the fight between Superman and Batman happening.

Batman was ready. Everything Batman did up to the point of turning on the Batsignal was his point in fighting Superman. Superman already had a negative impression of Batman as a brute and thug and when he tried to talk to him, Batman hit him with machine gun fire and a sound machine. Superman then went in to calm Batman down with a little tough love and was hit with Kryptonite.

-The forced Justice League set up ruins the pace and tone of the movie.

Was it forced? It was part of the title of the movie. It was always going to be in it. You get to find out just how much Lex Luthor knows, which is then elaborated on when we find out he also knows who Superman and Batman are.

The dream sequence was a warning to motivate Bruce and let him and the audience know that there are going to be bigger fish to fry and he'd best be ready. It also served to show Bruce that Superman does have humans he cares deeply about. Lois is the key.

-The script is awful. "Do you bleed"..? Ugh.

When that line came out in the trailers, everyone raved about it. Sucks that you didn't like it. I thought it showed Batman as being the ultimate badass. He just asked a god if he bleeds because he's so angry and confident in his ability that he knows he's going to hurt him.

I could go on, but It's more and more depressing to think about it.

I'd love to hear more. Most of your complaints have been answered by the film. I'd be interested in getting examples of the way the film was poorly edited.

 

[javonstokess]

how is it not resolved? At the end he realizes Superman's humanity and that he's NOT bad guy

So I guess saving the world the first time AND saving people on a regular basis wasn't enough evidence for him.

I guess he had speak Martha's sacred name to make a point.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Well your 3 movies are cinematic masterpieces with focused stories and not trying to setup 8 other films.

That's not my problem, or the moviegoing audiences', that's the filmmaker's problem. It's the audiences' fault that WB wants to launch eight other movies off of this one, and they should forgive poor storytelling for that? No man, doesn't work that way.

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Which I Agree with but were in a society where everyone wants it now and cant wait which is sad

People were clearly confused with this film and instead of watching it more closely a second time, it's easier to just say it's poorly written.

 

[Aquafinn90]

...but the World's Greatest detective isn't smart enough to find out that said individual actually STOPPED the other group of godlike beings who ACTUALLY destroyed the city and killed Bruce's employees?

"Twisting the character to fit the story". Another point of bad writing.

As explained in the movie...

Alfred: "but he is not our enemy!"
Bruce: "Not today, but 20 years in Gotham, how many good guys are left? How many stayed that way? If there is even a 1% chance that he could become our enemy, we have to destroy him"

Apologies If i screwed up that quote, but again, all the information you need is right there in the movie. Just like all the other "plot holes" and "lack of motivations"

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

So I guess saving the world the first time AND saving people on a regular basis wasn't enough evidence for him.

I guess he had speak Martha's sacred name to make a point.

Yes. When Batman learned that this "alien" has a mother, has a woman that loves him so much to come save him, to love a woman back so much that her safety is the key to the future is what woke Batman up to the fact that he is a man and he has experienced love and loss just like everyone else.

He also knows that if he ever went bad, he can stop him with the Krock. It's elementary.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Ok so answer me this: Who is Alfred in this movie?

I'm not understanding what you are asking me.

 

[Wylie Times]

That's bad storytelling in the film medium. It just is. Even with trilogies like LOTR, TDK and BTTF the independent films have resolution for their main plot threads. You don't need one to satisfy the other, only expound on them.

Yup, a good film should be able to stand on it's own without prior research, it also shouldn't be focused on setting up a later film in a series.

One of the reasons Iron Man 2 and Avengers Age of Ultron were criticized more harshly than their previous films was because those films spent too much time trying to set up future films.

 

[Lily Adler]

Ok so answer me this: Who is Alfred in this movie?

The person in bed with Bruce?

 

[Supernova]

People were clearly confused with this film and instead of watching it more closely a second time, it's easier to just say it's poorly written.

Not spelled out clearly enough I guess, remember people saying they felt like they needed a phd to watch the dark knight?

 

[Predator jp]

yeah, all the information you need is right there in the movie but are these convincing enough? that's another story. if you felt it is, that's good. if not, that's also good. we all feel differently.