BvS All Things Batman v Superman: An Open Discussion (TAG SPOILERS) - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 2

[Poni_Boy]

Superman always knowing where Lois is but can't locate his mother.

Superman barely been able to move being close to Kryptonite but then being able to fly with it in hand and pierce DD with it.

Batman seemingly trusting a being who felt was a threat a second ago and was about to impale him with a spear until he discovered thier mothers shared the same name.

Lex Luthor fretting about an all powerful god but releasing a seemingly more powerful one on the world.....etc.

Those aren't holes you just weren't paying attention maaaaaan. Go watch the movie six more times. With lots of friends. In IMAX.

 

[chintai80]

Superman always knowing where Lois is but can't locate his mother.

Superman barely been able to move being close to Kryptonite but then being able to fly with it in hand and pierce DD with it.

Batman seemingly trusting a being who he felt was a threat a second ago and was about to impale with a spear until he discovered thier mothers shared the same name.

Lex Luthor fretting about an all powerful god but releasing a seemingly more powerful one on the world.....etc.

those aren't plotholes...that's just bad writing!

all my opinion of course! cuz lot of people were fine with it!

 

[Light]

Those aren't holes you just weren't paying attention maaaaaan. Go watch the movie six more times. With lots of friends. In IMAX.

We can't all comprehend this masterpiece, Synderism is to much for the simple mind.

 

[Charlatan]

Originally Posted by Poni_Boy
How did Superman know Lois was in trouble in Africa? Lois used her psychic powers to alert him to her location.

Why did Superman go to fight Batman instead of saving his mom? Snyderism

Why was Batman just waiting on the roof for Superman and no one noticed he was there? Snyderism

How did Lois know the spear would kill Doomsday? Lois in this verse has Superpowers, it explains how she can get to certain locations instantly case in point refer to MOS after Supes kills Zod. And she's physic as well, Lois Lane is the key this will be revealed in Justice League.

Why did Batman make a spear instead of bullets when he uses bullets against thugs? The spear was made to kill doomsday.

How did batman aknowledge Superman was no longer a threat? Martha.

How did Wonder Woman just show up out of nowhere? It was time for her to hype her solo movie coming out next year.

Why is Batman asking Superman if WW is with him? Because he wants to tap that ass and was wondering if she was taken.

How did Lois get to the top of that roof where Supes and Bats were fighting? She has Super powers.

Why was Jack not evacuating Wayne Tower until Bruce told him to? When a cooperate building is being demolished you don't evacuate.....ever until the CEO of said company calls and tells you to.

Why did Lex create Doomsday if he thought Batman would kill Supes anyway? Snyderism

Why is Doomsday more powerful than Zod when mixing Lex's blood would inherently make him weaker? Snyderism

What the hell is Flash talking about? Lois Lane is needed to save the world.

What was the point of the Knighmare sequence in the context of the story? Snyderism

Why didn't Bruce research Supes at all? Snyderism

Top of my head. Go for it

1. Not sure but I believe it might be lost in the edited scenes from that part of the film. Perhaps "Jimmy Olsen the CIA guy" had a device to call Superman? (doubt it) Or maybe Lois told him where she was going? Maybe she was supposed to report in to the Planet and she missed her check-in and he was worried so he flew over to check on her?

2. Because if he didn't Lex would have had his mother killed right then. He didn't know where she was so he would have had to have spent a little time looking for her.

3 Why was he waiting? really? He was calling Supes out. It was in an abandoned part of the city. It's where he set all his traps. That's why no one was around.

4 Now you're just being obstinate. If the spear hurt Superman and he's from Krypton and the monster came out of that Kryptonian ship is made of Kryptonian DNA then wouldn't it stand to reason that it might hurt him too?
Lois' superpower is logic yo.

5. if you notice when he got through making the Kryptonite gas grenades with the laser, what was left of the rock looked just like a spear or arrow head. A good question might have been why not a spear? Although I have a feeling if he made a bullet you would have had something critical to say about that too. I think he got as close as he could to Miller's TDKR w/o enlisting Green Arrow.

6. Bats had a moment of clarity. An epiphany if you will,that this was no longer just an alien but a person with a family. Until that moment he had dehumanized him.

7. She saw the fight on the tv. She can jump really well (practically fly) that's how she showed up from nowhere.

8. Since she has super powers I guess he assumed they knew each other.

9. stairs, most buildings have them.

10. the fight had just moved across the city to where they were. You act as though it took 15 minutes for them to react. Just because Bruce drove around the city for about 5 minutes doesn't mean Zod and Supes were there the whole time.

11. Plan B ,Insurance call it what you will. Or maybe the thing in the ship told him to do it. Until we see the deleted scenes we don't know.

12 Because Doomsday is more than just Kryptonian. He has the ability to instantly adapt and evolve. His DNA was custom engineered to be a killing machine.

13. He said she was the key. I'm guessing that is supposed to be revealed later.

14. It was to get Bruce started looking for the members of the league. It was to warn him. It also (because he was too soon) made him believe that Supes was bad and going to kill him one day.

15. this is the best question out of the bunch. I too would have thought Bruce would have known about Clark. That he would have followed the same trail as Lois. But Bruce wasn't thinking about him having a regular life. Not this powerful alien. He had demonized him in his mind so much that he probably thought he was full time Superman and lived all alone in a cave or something.
​

 

[Light]

those aren't plotholes...that's just bad writing!

all my opinion of course! cuz lot of people were fine with it!

Perhaps you should look up the definition of what a plot hole is friend.

 

[FunkMiller]

Agreed. The only one I think would falter is TDKR. But Begins would be a huge freaking hit. To this day I feel it's the best Batman movie yet. Might watch it now...

It'll never be bettered.

Nevah.

 

[daddydivine]

Originally Posted by Poni_Boy
How did Superman know Lois was in trouble in Africa? Lois used her psychic powers to alert him to her location.

Why did Superman go to fight Batman instead of saving his mom? Snyderism

Why was Batman just waiting on the roof for Superman and no one noticed he was there? Snyderism

How did Lois know the spear would kill Doomsday? Lois in this verse has Superpowers, it explains how she can get to certain locations instantly case in point refer to MOS after Supes kills Zod. And she's physic as well, Lois Lane is the key this will be revealed in Justice League.

Why did Batman make a spear instead of bullets when he uses bullets against thugs? The spear was made to kill doomsday.

How did batman aknowledge Superman was no longer a threat? Martha.

How did Wonder Woman just show up out of nowhere? It was time for her to hype her solo movie coming out next year.

Why is Batman asking Superman if WW is with him? Because he wants to tap that ass and was wondering if she was taken.

How did Lois get to the top of that roof where Supes and Bats were fighting? She has Super powers.

Why was Jack not evacuating Wayne Tower until Bruce told him to? When a cooperate building is being demolished you don't evacuate.....ever until the CEO of said company calls and tells you to.

Why did Lex create Doomsday if he thought Batman would kill Supes anyway? Snyderism

Why is Doomsday more powerful than Zod when mixing Lex's blood would inherently make him weaker? Snyderism

What the hell is Flash talking about? Lois Lane is needed to save the world.

What was the point of the Knighmare sequence in the context of the story? Snyderism

Why didn't Bruce research Supes at all? Snyderism

Top of my head. Go for it

1. Not sure but I believe it might be lost in the edited scenes from that part of the film. Perhaps "Jimmy Olsen the CIA guy" had a device to call Superman? (doubt it) Or maybe Lois told him where she was going? Maybe she was supposed to report in to the Planet and she missed her check-in and he was worried so he flew over to check on her?

2. Because if he didn't Lex would have had his mother killed right then. He didn't know where she was so he would have had to have spent a little time looking for her.

3 Why was he waiting? really? He was calling Supes out. It was in an abandoned part of the city. It's where he set all his traps. That's why no one was around.

4 Now you're just being obstinate. If the spear hurt Superman and he's from Krypton and the monster came out of that Kryptonian ship is made of Kryptonian DNA then wouldn't it stand to reason that it might hurt him too?
Lois' superpower is logic yo.

5. if you notice when he got through making the Kryptonite gas grenades with the laser, what was left of the rock looked just like a spear or arrow head. A good question might have been why not a spear? Although I have a feeling if he made a bullet you would have had something critical to say about that too. I think he got as close as he could to Miller's TDKR w/o enlisting Green Arrow.

6. Bats had a moment of clarity. An epiphany if you will,that this was no longer just an alien but a person with a family. Until that moment he had dehumanized him.

7. She saw the fight on the tv. She can jump really well (practically fly) that's how she showed up from nowhere.

8. Since she has super powers I guess he assumed they knew each other.

9. stairs, most buildings have them.

10. the fight had just moved across the city to where they were. You act as though it took 15 minutes for them to react. Just because Bruce drove around the city for about 5 minutes doesn't mean Zod and Supes were there the whole time.

11. Plan B ,Insurance call it what you will. Or maybe the thing in the ship told him to do it. Until we see the deleted scenes we don't know.

12 Because Doomsday is more than just Kryptonian. He has the ability to instantly adapt and evolve. His DNA was custom engineered to be a killing machine.

13. He said she was the key. I'm guessing that is supposed to be revealed later.

14. It was to get Bruce started looking for the members of the league. It was to warn him. It also (because he was too soon) made him believe that Supes was bad and going to kill him one day.

15. this is the best question out of the bunch. I too would have thought Bruce would have known about Clark. That he would have followed the same trail as Lois. But Bruce wasn't thinking about him having a regular life. Not this powerful alien. He had demonized him in his mind so much that he probably thought he was full time Superman and lived all alone in a cave or something.
​

I'mma be real. You answered a lot of questions and the answers made sense. Gonna be hard for someone to poke dem holes in your logic. Well played.

 

[Light]

I'mma be real. You answered a lot of questions and the answers made sense. Gonna be hard for someone to poke dem holes in your logic. Well played.

All defenders of this movie can do is assume and assume because we have not been provided certain information. Just want to point out assumptions are not answers per say just an individual speculating on what he believed happened.

 

[Sleiek]

The nitpicking level for this movie is over 9000.

 

[chintai80]

almost all movies, if you dig deep enough, the story logic will probably fall apart. especially with these fantasy based films.

but with bvs, as least as i see it, you don't have to dig too far to see the plot fall apart. and that hurts the film.

i think its great that alot of fans are enjoying the film, but when i watch it i just can't help but notice how weak the story logic is.

and the good acting, dialogue and action beats can cover it up, but only for so much.

it's like half the movie was good, but the other half was really bad.
and a movie that's 50% bad is a bad movie.

 

[Light]

The nitpicking level for this movie is over 9000.

Just loyal fans upset at the way their favourite heroes are being treated, I hated MOS but was forgiving because of the promise of improvement and listening to critiscm from MOS but alas that wasn't the case.

 

[Aquafinn90]

Spoiler

How did Superman know Lois was in trouble in Africa?
She was on a dangerous assignment in Africa. One would assume that since they are dating, Clark would have known very well that she was there and kept a watch/ear on her. This one granted is NOT "explained" in the movie, but I hardly think that this is something that needs to be "filled in"

Why did Superman go to fight Batman instead of saving his mom?
...Because he had zero idea where she was? She was abducted in Smallville and taken to Gotham. He would never find her in 1 hour.

Why was Batman just waiting on the roof for Superman and no one noticed he was there?
....He knew that the signal would attract Superman based on their dialogue in the earlier conversation. Why would it matter if anyone noticed? the police are on his side...I'm confused as to why this is even a question

How did Lois know the spear would kill Doomsday?
I missed this the first time around actually, but caught it the second. After she throws the spear away, she sees DD shoot heat vision when WW blocks it. She she deduces its Kryptonian and can be destroyed with Kryptonite since the Kryptonite has negative effects on Superman(the same exact way Batman deduces its Kryptonian). They literally show her watching that scene unfold- I don't think that there needed to be any line of explanation on this in the movie. I will give it to you that the shot of Louis witnessing that can be easily missed, because its directly after WW's grand entrance, but once you see it its pretty clear

Why did Batman make a spear instead of bullets when he uses bullets against thugs?
.....huh? He makes grenades out of Kryptonite and uses the leftover piece that is sharp as a spear...Why is this even a question? The spear and the grenades are shown to be highly effective, why does he need bullets?

How did batman aknowledge Superman was no longer a threat?
After the Martha exchange he realizes Superman isn't just an "alien" - he sees his humanity. This is something I'm left scratching my head at anyone that didn't pick up on it and thought it was "just because both their mothers names are Martha"

How did Wonder Woman just show up out of nowhere?
.....She sees the battle unfolding on TV, and goes to it.....Again why is this a question? She literally sees the battle happening on TV

Why is Batman asking Superman if WW is with him?
.....This is an absurd nitpick. Because he sees WW is quite powerful on a Superman level so he assumes that she is with him. Why is this a question?

How did Lois get to the top of that roof where Supes and Bats were fighting?
I don't recall her getting to the roof. I recall her entering the main door- she shows up at the very end of the battle when Batman and Superman on are the ground level, if I'm not mistaken.

Why was Jack not evacuating Wayne Tower until Bruce told him to?
I'll give you this one. That was foolish.

Why did Lex create Doomsday if he thought Batman would kill Supes anyway?
Plan B. Lex always covers all his bases.

Why is Doomsday more powerful than Zod when mixing Lex's blood would inherently make him weaker?
The ship taught him all about this "abomination" - It wasn't just "mixing Zod's body with Lex's blood" - the chamber was evolving it. I don't think this was unclear at all.

What the hell is Flash talking about?
I guess I can give you this, as its obviously not explained in the movie, as it was clearly a setup for JL.

What was the point of the Knighmare sequence in the context of the story?
see above.

Why didn't Bruce research Supes at all?
Research him in terms of what? as in who his identity is? He doesn't care I suppose? He knows that he's an alien from Krypton that had a hand in the destruction of Metropolis and is ridiculously powerful and can be seen as a threat. Confused that this is a question also.

Top of my head. Go for it

 

[Unbreakable Lex]

Superman always knowing where Lois is but can't locate his mother.

This is not a plot hole. Lois Lane gets herself in trouble all of the time. Superman always keeps an ear out for her. That's why Lex tossed her off the building to get Superman to him. Martha pours coffee in Kansas all day long. No need to keep such close tabs on her.

Superman barely been able to move being close to Kryptonite but then being able to fly with it in hand and pierce DD with it.

This is not a plot hole. Superman was inhaling the kryptonite moments before he was under Batman's foot. By the time he had the spear, he had been nuked and regenerated. It clearly weakened him. Lois got him out of the water and he gave everything he had to get back to Doomsday to steak him.

Batman seemingly trusting a being who he felt was a threat a second ago and was about to impale with a spear until he discovered thier mothers shared the same name.

The epiphany that Bruce had when he found out the key to the future just told him this alien has an Earthly mother is lost on you I see.

Lex Luthor fretting about an all powerful god but releasing a seemingly more powerful one on the world.....etc.

When did he unleash the all powerful god? After man failed. He clearly says that if man can't kill god, the devil will do it. You can take this many ways but not as a plot hole. This was Lex's last stand. He thought the beast would answer to him since it was of his blood. Superman had to save Lex from the creature he made.

This movie is being discussed as an abomination and that's all you guys can come up with?

All defenders of this movie can do is assume and assume because we have not been provided certain information. Just want to point out assumptions are not answers per say just an individual speculating on what he believed happened.

This guy wants a 10 hour movie to answer any conceivable question one may have all while we've all been through years of moaning about no need for origin stories because these characters are so well known.

Superman knew Lois was in Africa because the movie told us he works with her and lives with her. When's the last time your girlfriend traveled around the world to a dangerous place and you didn't know where she was? And it was framed in a way to show that even Lex knew Superman would show up.

 

[MrsKent26]

Just loyal fans upset at the way their favourite heroes are being treated, I hated MOS but was forgiving because of the promise of improvement and listening to critiscm from MOS but alas that wasn't the case.

Well, they did give us that little bit about Doomsday attacking "in an unpopulated area," but I can forgive people for disregarding that considering it missed the point. The issue with MOS's destruction wasn't so much the destruction itself, but superman's/the movie's reaction to/treatment of it.

Getting Terrio was a notable attempt at improvement, but it didn't pan out as well as I'd hoped. There was some better dialogue there, but it didn't extend to superman, and the plot was still odd in places.

 

[Aquafinn90]

This movie is being discussed as an abomination and that's all you guys can come up with?

right? I have NEVER heard of movie being so nitpicked. As someone pointed out above you can literally find logic flaws in ANY movie if you dig deep enough. Where is disagree is that the OP said they were pretty surface level, I don't think so at all.
like now the level of nitpicks has come to "Why did Batman ask Superman if WW was with him?"

 

[Light]

This is not a plot hole. Lois Lane gets herself in trouble all of the time. Superman always keeps an ear out for her. That's why Lex tossed her off the building to get Superman to him. Martha pours coffee in Kansas all day long. No need to keep such close tabs on her.

*Sigh* Are we going to get in an argument as to what a plot hole is? This was clearly a plot hole his able to locate one individual at all times of distress but yet cannot locate another individual in times of need. This whole his always keeping an eye on Lois at all times was made up by defenders of this movie and holds no weight.

This is not a plot hole. Superman was inhaling the kryptonite moments before he was under Batman's foot. By the time he had the spear, he had been nuked and regenerated. It clearly weakened him. Lois got him out of the water and he gave everything he had to get back to Doomsday to steak him.

He was unable to move due to the effect of kryptonite and two minutes later he was flying and able to pierce Doomsday that my friend is a plot hole.

The epiphany that Bruce had when he found out the key to the future just told him this alien has an Earthly mother is lost on you I see.


Nope wasn't lost on me, it was jus an illogical reason as to him changing his mind and him trusting this being he spent the entire movie hating. Your mums name is Martha my mother was Martha I trust you. Now this part can be argued to be poor writing and execution.


When did he unleash the all powerful god? After man failed. He clearly says that if man can't kill god, the devil will do it. You can take this many ways but not as a plot hole. This was Lex's last stand. He thought the beast would answer to him since it was of his blood. Superman had to save Lex from the creature he made.

It's a plot hole he considered Superman an all Poweful God and was willing to put him down and yet unleashes something even more powerul on the world. You have inserted your assumptions and theory into the story clearly highlighting what a poor job the movie did on telling a cohesive and structured story.

This movie is being discussed as an abomination and that's all you guys can come up with?

"This movie is being discussed as an abomination and that's all you guys can come up with?"

Ok here we go

Batman decides to risk his life to lure Doomsday back to Gotham but we have seen Alfred can manually drive the batwing so why not let Alfred do it while he goes hunting for the spear.

Lex Luthor is bargaining regarding importing kryptonite into the country, the US army would have been all over it ASAP.

Batman hits the truck with the kryptonite with a tracker and still goes on a rampage killing people. When he could have simply placed the tracker and left it at that because he now knew the destination of said item. Trust me a lot of things in this movie don't make sense this is not an overreaction.

 

[Light]

Well, they did give us that little bit about Doomsday attacking "in an unpopulated area," but I can forgive people for disregarding that considering it missed the point. The issue with MOS's destruction wasn't so much the destruction itself, but superman's/the movie's reaction to/treatment of it.

Getting Terrio was a notable attempt at improvement, but it didn't pan out as well as I'd hoped. There was some better dialogue there, but it didn't extend to superman, and the plot was still odd in places.

Excatly I would have been fine with MOS and the destruction if they simply showed a Superman that was worried about what was occurring. Granted when you have got two kryptonians collateral damage is bound to happen.

 

[chintai80]

Perhaps you should look up the definition of what a plot hole is friend.

man you're the definition of a plot hole!

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

The nitpicking level for this movie is over 9000.

That's really because of how bad the film is. I mean when you see a bad movie, you notice all the bad things about it. You don't notice or see many flaws in a good film.

The Dark Knight for example, there's only one issue I have. I feel like the look of Gotham wasn't as good as Batman Begins.

Empire Strikes Back is a film I find flawless.

When you see a bad film, you notice it's mistakes and do get nitpicky because how bad it was.

 

[Adam Zuge]

With all respect for those that enjoyed the film, but it's a mess. And I refuse to keep watching DCCU films as long as Snyder is directing Justice League? Is he? Things are awfully quiet on that front and all I want to know is if he's out, discussing the merits of the film is beating a dead horse at this point, all I need to know is:

Besides the EW press release, Jason Momoa, Ray Fischer and Gal Gadot being currently in London, is there any indication that they are indeed moving on with Snyder next week? I just can't believe they would and all that I can bring myself to care about this right now is who is going to fix the DCEU. I think that Max Landis idea of making Snyder's characters part of the Earth 3 and not the "real" universe is the only way out right now, but I'm interested to know who Warner will be bringing to fix this, or if it's going to stay as it is.

 

[Light]

man you're the definition of a plot hole!

Thank you.

 

[CrystalShaman]

With all respect for those that enjoyed the film, but it's a mess. And I refuse to keep watching DCCU films as long as Snyder is directing Justice League? Is he? Things are awfully quiet on that front and all I want to know is if he's out, discussing the merits of the film is beating a dead horse at this point, all I need to know is:

It is supposed to start shooting in 3 days. At this point it looks like they are going to go with him sadly. I probably will just check out DC Synderverse movies when they are on iTunes or something.

 

[Aquafinn90]

With all respect for those that enjoyed the film, but it's a mess. And I refuse to keep watching DCCU films as long as Snyder is directing Justice League? Is he? Things are awfully quiet on that front and all I want to know is if he's out, discussing the merits of the film is beating a dead horse at this point, all I need to know is:

Besides the EW press release, Jason Momoa, Ray Fischer and Gal Gadot being currently in London, is there any indication that they are indeed moving on with Snyder next week? I just can't believe they would and all that I can bring myself to care about this right now is who is going to fix the DCEU. I think that Max Landis idea of making Snyder's characters part of the Earth 3 and not the "real" universe is the only way out right now, but I'm interested to know who Warner will be bringing to fix this, or if it's going to stay as it is.

I think its more clear that they are going forward with it based on the fact that we haven't heard anything saying otherwise. Thank God to because I thought BVS was such a breath of fresh air and a masterpiece. That being said, I'm getting off these boards for a while because the level of nitpicking has reached such absurd levels. I think the only place to go next is to argue over the color of Bruce's suits. We will be hearing how he should have worn Blue instead of Grey because Snyder clearly didn't understand the character or something ridiculous like that.

 

[kguillou]

You guys have to understand, even if WB WANTED to get rid of Snyder at the last minute, they cannot. Could you IMAGINE what a PR NIGHTMARE it would be? Sure, fans on the internet would be happy Snyder's gone but by and large getting rid of him at the last minute, just when theyre about to film, after he's been heavily promoting the film everywhere, with the cast and crew already assembled and standing behind Snyder, it would be a complete utter disaster and more importantly it makes EVERYONE look bad. The studio, the stars, the production team. Everyone. Justice League would be tainted.

Could you imagine the awkward interviews the cast and crew would have to endure when promoting JL? Q:"So, what happend to Zack Snyder? Wasn't he originally the director?" A: "Well, uhhhh, he, uhhhh left for creative diferences?" Q: "We're hearing he was fire due to BvS underperforming..can you speak on that?" A:"Uhhhhh this interview's over."

They need to show confidence and move forward. Except this time, they get someone to watch over Snyder, that's all.

 

[Adam Zuge]

It is supposed to start shooting in 3 days. At this point it looks like they are going to go with him sadly.

Alright, but usually a film this big we'd have some kind of movement. It makes sense not to reveal anything right now because the film is still in theaters. Are we really sure if he'll keep going? Because if that's the case, I'm out. I'll just subscribe to this thread and hope something will come up soon and he will end up not directing it. It's so beyond anything I can fathom with these two characters and their worlds that I just need Snyder to stay out of this to go back. And if Warner hasn't realized yet, things are quite bad. I'm hardly the only one feeling the same. All I can do now is hope, because I'm not here to say how bad I think this is, all that it needed to be said was said already. Just hope Warner won't move on with him and wait for more details. I just can't believe they will keep him.